Socrates discusses death of democracy, hubris of empire, devolution to civil war. ‘We the People’ of the US’ choice: follow that path OR demand .01% arrests for OBVIOUS crimes of war, looting, lying

“The strong do what power allows. The weak accept what they must.”  – Athenian 415 BC envoy to the small government of Melos, with the offer to either join Athens’ empire with paying them tribute, or have all men executed, and everyone else sold into slavery. Melos politely declined Athens’ offer. Athens attacked, did exactly what they threatened, and resettled the emptied island with 500 Athenian colonists. – Melian Dialogue of Socrates’ contemporary historian, Thucydides.

language warning: Socrates and I speak in the same direct language that caused his execution for “corrupting the young.”

With potential threat of US civil war, perhaps staged by .01% oligarchs fearing their discovery and arrests, let’s consider Socrates’ analysis to a similar challenge. He explains from my 2016 “interview” with him:

Carl: Socrates! Welcome back!

Socrates: Carl! Thank you for continuing our dialogue. We began discussing Greek history, with connections to your United States of today. I’d like us to continue that point for Americans’ “real-world” philosophical consideration.

C: Awesome.

S: I witnessed Athenian Empire. Athens demanded tribute-taxes and slaves from dominated city states or death at the hands of our military, as with Melos. Empire is hubris; and the opposite of what we defended from Persian invasions. Quest for empire split our people, and led to civil war with Sparta.

Let’s pause here to summarize my society before comparing to the US of today: we used foreign subsidies/tribute-taxes and slavery to fund an expanding military empire. Empire ended with civil war, ignited by the hypocrisy of dominating other free societies while declaring our philosophy of personal freedom. Carl, would you agree this is a fair summary of Athens’ history?

C: Yes.

S: Good. Let’s compare one empire to another: yours.

Do you recognize how the US is subsidized with tribute-taxes and slavery to maintain a global military empire?

C: Yup. It’s called the “petrodollar” (and here): the US cut a deal with the Saud family (a family-owned country called Saudi Arabia) to sell oil only for dollars, then use profits to buy US debt securities. This strengthens the value of the dollar, and allows the US government to fund its empire by selling debt as US Treasuries. So, our subjects pay for our global empire by only using US currency, plow profits back to us as an investment for taxpayer-guaranteed interest, and in exchange we use our military to back their dictatorial fiefdom.

S: And have subject nations ever refused to “play” by these rules?

C: They’ve tried. When Iraq’s Saddam started selling oil for Euros and Yen in 2000, US political “leadership” and corporate media began calling this CIA asset a “bad man” rather than a “strong man,” and ended his regime by US military invasion. When Iran made the same move in 2005, that began war rhetoric lasting to today for “regime change.” Hey, Soc: do you know what the US called its war on Iraq in 2003?

S: I’ll bite. What?

C: (one small chuckle) O.I.L. I shit you not, Soc, that’s what they called it: Operation Iraqi Liberation.

S: (extended laughter) And everyone bought that?!?

C: They had to change it when some people began laughing at the tragic-comedy; hubris as you Greeks called it. They renamed it OIF: Operation Iraqi “Freedom.” Here, let me show you Mugsys RapSheet’s 1-minute video:

S: Wow. Yeah, “Freedom” isn’t any less ironic. Talk about shaming and humiliating the victim for psychopathic pleasure.

Do Americans know much about dictators being “good boys” to their empire?

C: No. For example, vicious African dictators in oil-rich countries in Gabon, Angola, and Equatorial Guinea get presidential dinners, favorable media, and our “protection.” But most Americans don’t know shit about this, as we say.

S: That sounds familiar. Ok, back to our topic: Athenian Empire ended when our hubris and hypocrisy erupted into civil war. How do you see the US on hypocrisy?

C: The hypocrisy is intense, Soc. We’re told the opposite of the truth in everything important. There’s destruction of nearly all rights lawfully guaranteed in the US Bill of Rights within the US Constitution, and in total inversion of promised limited government.

Our “leaders” roll the world with unlawful and lie-began wars, and Crimes Against Humanity for ongoing policy of poverty that’s killed over 400 million human beings just in the last 20 years (~75% children; more deaths than from all wars in Earth’s recorded history).

They “bail out” banksters, and use so-called “money” that is actually debt. They withhold obvious solutions worth literally about a million dollars to every hard-working US household.

S: So… civil war or not, Carl?

C: Dude! You’re the one into stating what we can clearly see! How the fuck would I know?

S: You’re right, we can’t see the future. But I am interested in your opinion (smiles).

C: (smile) Here’s what I see: everybody today can read compared with ~10% in your day. Polling data are overwhelming that Americans register something criminal in “leadership” and that corporate media lies. Some form of victory seems inevitable, but nobody I know has any objective data whether victory will be peaceful or violent, and when the tipping-point will occur.

S: So we can agree on the similarities of Athenian Empire to US Empire today: both engage in expanding empire, both demand a form of tribute-tax, both engage in hypocrisy, and the US is at risk of a form of civil war that ended Athens’ Empire.

C: Agreed.

S: (chuckles) The single person who swayed public judgment against me was a clever politician named Alcibiades. He played public ignorance and fears for his own advancement. He was a real dick, as you say. Oh, and so was Aristophanes.

The public were too stupid to see through Alcibiades. He would engage in our conversations in Athens as a young man, but like many lawyers, learned rhetoric to manipulate rather than reveal facts. I was blamed for “corrupting him,” of course, and “causing” his vices. He framed the “need” for more and more empire in a way your US oligarchs would embrace. Do you know how Thucydides quoted him, Carl?

C: No, I don’t know this one.


“We cannot fix the exact point at which our empire shall stop; we have reached a position in which we must not be content with retaining but must scheme to extend it, for, if we cease to rule others, we are in danger of being ruled.”

C: Wow.

S: Wow, indeed.

C: And Athens killed you rather than face their oligarchs truthfully and honorably.

S: Yes.

C: So the central question for Americans today is whether they have the integrity and courage to voice the obvious lawless hypocrisy of their “leaders,” or remain oblivious to evil. At stake is either a continuing evil empire, or danger of its collapse into civil war.

S: Yes.

C: Hey, Soc: what do you think of my call for the public to demand arrests of our .01% criminal leaders?

S: It’s truthful. They are criminals. The proper citizen response is to lawfully stop their crimes, especially those with Oaths that honor the clear rights and laws your country claims to be founded upon. This would seem to be central to military and government service.

C: Let me show you this 90-second clip calling for arrests:

What do you think?

S: Strong. He’s feelin’ it, as you say.

C: How can I best communicate this idea?

S: How could my few allies communicate to Athens’ jury to find me innocent of “corrupting the youth,” “rejecting the Gods,” and to vote against my execution?

C: That’s not an inspiring comparison, Bro. We’d better have a better base of informed citizens today than you did.

S: Yeah, you’ll need them. If you are meant to win.

C: If we are meant to win we’ll need something more than we currently have, yes. Any words of encouragement for us, Socrates?

S: Don’t worry about the outcome of your nation or this world. Only act with virtue, which is all that is given you to act upon.

C: That seems wise. (smiles)

S: Yes. If I taught anything, it’s that I have nothing to teach; I don’t know anything beyond that which anyone can point to and see for themselves. (smiles) There’s a corollary.

C: Please.

S: No human is wise; none can see beyond what anyone can see with looking. Only God is wise. Have you found anyone who can point to the future with any certainty, any knowledge to give anyone any realistic encouragement? That’s what you asked for: words of encouragement.

C: Never. Just people with enough wisdom to trust what they could point to and prove, and ask enough questions to disprove liars claiming facts they couldn’t prove, or that the facts proved they were liars.

S: So you’d better leave encouragement with trusting God. Do you?

C: I do.

S: So we all move forward in literal good-faith effort! (laughs) Another day of “patient activism” in the Empire!

Enjoy the adventure on this beautiful planet, Carl. It will only get more interesting!

As I said before: you have more friends than you know, and every step forward invites so many more of your brothers and sisters to join us.

Divine justice is the law.

C: Thank you, Socrates. Perhaps we’ll speak again. (bro hug)

S: Oh, you know me: I always have something to talk about! I do have another topic I’d like to address with you. Would you like to know, or have it be a surprise?

C: Dude, don’t leave us hanging.

S: Did you know that the best way to characterize me in your terms today, is that I was the leading “wacky conspiracy theorist” of my day?

C: Wait, what? You?

S: Obviously. Think about it. Until our next conversation, Carl. Peace.


“Interview” series:

Satire series:


Note: I make all factual assertions as a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History, with all economics factual claims receiving zero refutation since I began writing in 2008among Advanced Placement Macroeconomics teachers on our discussion board, public audiences of these articles, and international conferences. I invite readers to empower their civic voices with the strongest comprehensive facts most important to building a brighter future. I challenge professionals, academics, and citizens to add their voices for the benefit of all Earth’s inhabitants.


Carl Herman is a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History; also credentialed in Mathematics. He worked with both US political parties over 18 years and two UN Summits with the citizen’s lobby, RESULTS, for US domestic and foreign policy to end poverty. He can be reached at

Note: has blocked public access to my articles on their site (and from other whistleblowers), so some links in my previous work are blocked. If you’d like to search for those articles other sites may have republished, use words from the article title within the blocked link. Or, go to, paste the expired link into the box, click “Browse history,” then click onto the screenshots of that page for each time it was screen-shot and uploaded to webarchive. I’ll update as “hobby time” allows; including my earliest work from 2009 to 2011 (blocked author pages: here, here).


This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

    Fun Topic …

    However, this is for Socrates … ” Those who fail to seek the Gods and their counsel are doomed to be consumed by their fury.” True, no man can see with clarity, but that is because they are supposed to be “seeking” ( takes effort) that which they cannot see clearly!
    Those who seek, Find.

    There are many Gods, ( Some, Evil) and they will have influence, for the Worse, if Man Ignores those Spiritual Entities. A Wise General takes all Adversaries into Account. Hades is always looking for an oppertunity to Destroy Mankind, and Ignoring Him only Gives Him More Power.

    Today, nobody believes … Which is why you have a Rudderless Nation full of Children that have been Scattered to the Four Winds … Hades has His Work cut out for Him.

    • Carolinejdulac

      our friend’s aunt makes $81 per hour on the laptop… she’s been without work for 10 months and the previous month her income was $17671 working on the internet for 5 hours every day…➤ look➤ at this➤ link

    • Sarahjsmith

      my buddy’s sister makes $93 per hour at home… she has been fired from work for 3 months but last month her payoff was $13516 only working at home a few hours.➤ go here ➤to ➤this site

  • hvaiallverden

    SuckCrates (see the Monty Python version of an football game, highly recommended), yeah, and like many others, even Christianity is not even understood properly, and when that happens, people talk and write about thing they know little about, in fact as the saying goes, mostly misinformed, instead of an more noble stand, when one is uniformed, witch is something entirety else, where an uniformed dont need to know, what you need to know is the patterns behind all this various vectors we persive to day in politics.

    Its not that hard to know and see whom runs the show, when 6 corps owns everything, inlc what we are supposedly to know, aka the media, where lines are getting blurred again, the original Occupy was an noble thought, and an correct one as far I could judge, but fisled out into nothing, again, guided deep into an desert of socialistic babbling, where narratives are been cooked and watered out to be everything, and despite the insane obvious contradictions, coming from both sides, I agree fully with Trump on this one, and their actions dont reflect their knowing and knowledge about history and basically everything else above all the economy, witch is the rot cause of everything, incl the Race issue, witch is not that far of, to be honest, but again, the narratives about race is covered behind political smoke screens, where the MSM whines about racism and white supremacy, bot dont bother to mention anything when Blacks openly advocate genocide on white people and we are then supposedly expected to just shut up and comply.

    Whines about Trump, but when He bombed Syria He became an hero instantly, and the bonkers Wahhabi infested Saudis, huh, whom is happy head chopping, like uISISa forces are doing in Syria anyone they dont like or sees as an problem, and our MSM is dead silent.
    The glaring obvious hate coming from the Israelis, MPs after MP comes forth and openly talks about wiping out Palestine, and the MSM is dead silent.
    The constant rapes and robbers done by our “enrichment” of course to our culture that the leftis claim dont exist in the first place, and anyone saying anything, is an neo-nazi and a racist.
    The reason for Norway to focus on the A.B. BerVikings slaughtering of Norwegian children, to be about nationalism, an pathetic freak with an uniform fetish, but whom loved Israel, yeah, you know the drill, and the Labor youth was to vote for Palestinians to be recognize as an state, and 69 of them got killed, while civilians rescued people our police hided in the forest, yeah, f….. scums awaited orders, and the friend runned of to Kibbutzes in Israel, not mentioned of course.
    An false flag, and I know our present Gov. is rotten to their core, fake Jews aka Khazar on top of it, total control, Norway is one of the last Stalinist country’s left on this planet, and now, you get the washing.
    I know you will loose this one, to be frank, despite some of us is agreeing on most, the problem is the MSM and eventually people, whom this days is dangerously ignorant.
    Thats why I define them as Idiot Savants, if you know what I mean, and I dont blame them, I blame us for allowing this to happen in the first place, and now we all have to pay for it.
    Everything has consequences, doing nothing dont take that away at all, everything, has consequences, do you understand this at all.
    Or just thrust your head further down into the sand, and while your ass is in the air, perfect for the scums, painful for the rest of us.

    Again I would recommend to read Dr. King, before drooling anything more about this issue, witch is good old fashion, political games, and ignorants walks straight into the traps, and of course the basics where there from the decades of indoctrination, creating mental unsuitability(snowflakes) created thru the PC infested asylum we previous called schools.
    Shit in, shit out.

    And years ago, we warned you, now, my warning is more of an, do prepare for everything, incl civil war.
    Time comes, to take an stand.
    And you are fast approaching that junction.

    May the lord have mercy upon your souls, you will need it, the shit storm is coming home, and in an sense its like an Poetic justice, to watch your country disintegrate and others have, done in the same manners and run by the same Scrap Book.

    I have just one thing to say regarding racism, I dont believe it at all, and even tho some some will claim it, my only answer will be, with all due respect, go f…. your self.
    Its our land, not their land, we need to remind them of this, and if not, as the saying goes from where I am from, do you really want trouble, hell I will give you trouble.
    10 min, of history in one melody, from time immemorial to the present.
    This is nationalism, care for everything we are not alone, thats your duty as an citizen.

    wake up and give em hell


  • Todd Millions

    Carl- What kind of school room furheur are you!?
    You had Plato’s teacher on the horn and you didn’t ask him what happened to the missing end chapter(book) of “History of the Peloponesian War”!
    Burn yer educator certificates now- lest the Kindly Ones(furies) eat yer liver via your back passage Mr. Herman! *
    Mind you – Captian Guliver also neglected to inquire and/or report on this matter ,when he reported on his visit to the isle of the necromancer.
    But then his interlocutor Swift was probably too gob smacked penning the report of the paternity lines of Europe’s royal families his account contained-“Two spruce courtiers , a fiddler and an Italian Prelate”.
    But perhaps Swift’s account of calling up an assembly of the Roman Senate and then a later example of the same-is more too the point.
    Next interview with the talkative nosy mason- you may wish to table the money collected for mutual defence by Athenian allies that ended up rebuilding the Acropolis. After the Persians had torched it -Twice.
    Mayhap you should also bring in J. Swift into this symposium.
    *And watch for eagles dropping turtles on your way too Sicily(Delphi homeland security general warning circular).

    • Carl_Herman

      You’re so welcome for the elucidation of Socrates’ life in an age of empire, and its comparison to our own with admonition to the dangers of civil war.

      I’ll take my chances with the Furies, and please watch the central messages of your communications for your own safety. The Furies main target were those who abandon their Oaths, so perhaps our .01% opponents, and those aware of reality in our government and military with Oaths to protect and defend the Constitution should pay attention.

      • Todd Millions

        “Honour and love to anyman who through free will commits no base act.
        Against necessity however
        Not the very gods themselves are opposed”.
        Simomedes (On human Imperfection)
        My point on Swifts take-
        “The first(earlier view of the Roman senate)seemed to be an assembly of heroes and
        demigods;the other(later view)a knot of pedlars, pickpockets, highwaymen and bullies.”

        Its not just the Furies who have noticed that in our case(s),We have No-first view.
        Oaths are good and needed but
        a pretence of a republic requires
        Educated guardians.
        That has Never happened on this continent.