Should Mike Pence Become the President?

Eric Zuesse, originally posted at

On August 26th, Morning Consult headlined “More Voters Want Pence as President Than Trump, Poll Shows” and reported that “In a choice between the president of the United States and his second-in-command, more voters say Vice President Mike Pence should take charge of the country.”

On August 27th, Axios bannered “First Cohn, now Tillerson, turn on Trump”, and reported that U.S. President Donald Trump’s Chief Economic Advisor, Gary Cohn of Goldman Sachs; and President Trump’s Secretary of State, ExxonMobil’s Rex Tillerson, were rejecting Trump for his fence-riding about hate-groups such as nazis and KKK.

That’s just the latest stage in a multi-stage processs, of forcing Trump out and bringing Pence into the White House.

There’s increasing talk now of replacing Trump with his Vice President, who Constitutionally is the first-in-line-of-succession to the Presidency.

As I had reported March 6th, “The palace coup is on, to replace Trump by Pence”; but it’s much farther along today, than it was at that time.

First, the Establishment tried to replace Trump by Pence for allegedly having stolen the election from Hillary Clinton (allegedly via assistance from Vladimir Putin), and they’ve been preparing to impeach him for that and for his widely believed general corruption. But now, increasingly, they don’t even want to wait that long, but are instead organizing to implement a quicker method, which the Democratic Party commentator Keith Olbermann had first publicized on 23 November 2016, headlining “The Surprisingly Easy Way to Get Rid of Donald Trump”. No House impeachment, and no Senate trial, are even necessary: all that’s necessary in this alternative method is for the Vice President to write to the Cabinet that the President isn’t able to discharge his powers and duties as the President, and for half of the Cabinet to agree on that. Pence would then automatically become Acting President. But then, within about three weeks, the House and the Senate would need to vote on whether the Vice President will remain in office as the Acting President, or else to restore the elected President. (Of course, if Pence and his supporters in the Cabinet lose such a congressional vote, Trump might fire them.) In order for Pence to remain as the Acting President, two-thirds of each chamber would need to vote for Pence. If all of the non-Republicans vote for Pence, that would be 48 Senators (or 48% of that body) and 194 Representatives (or 44.6% of that body). Getting to the required 67% would then need only 19 Senate Republicans out of the 54, and 95 House Republicans out of the 246. That would be 36% of Senate Republicans, and 39% of House Republicans. (Perhaps a majority of Republicans would vote for Pence, in each chamber. In that case, some of the non-Republicans could vote for Trump and yet still Pence remain as the Acting President.) Pence could already have the votes he’d need, but that’s presuming his roughly three weeks as Acting President would be favorably covered by the nation’s newsmedia, which presumption would likely be true, since they obviously want Trump to be replaced by Pence — and the sooner the better. (And, as Acting President, Pence would be certain to avoid doing anything at all controversial during that period of temporary service. After all, if Pence loses such a vote in Congress, his own political career will be promptly ended.) For Trump even to challenge Pence’s allegations in such a case, might cause Congress to enter immediately into the impeachment-and-trial route, which might cause Trump to become federally charged on criminal counts shortly after he becomes convicted in the Senate, if he becomes convicted there. He’d then be facing ordinary American ‘justice’, but with an extremely hostile press. Either way, Trump’s brand-value would collapse, but if he becomes removed as an incompetent, he’s less likely to become imprisoned.

What, then, would the U.S., and the world, face if Pence becomes President? He has an extensive record in politics, and his record is consistently conservative, but actually beyond being only that: he is a neoconservative, pro-theocratic, pro-aristocratic, pro-mega-corporate (especially pro-international-corporate), true-believer. Another way to categorize him is as a fundamentalist Christian neoliberal neoconservative, who would be a dream-come-true for America’s military-industrial complex: ‘policeman to the world’. Even if Trump is trying to give the generals everything they want, they could increase their demands if Pence becomes established as the President and Commander-in-Chief. They’d have the lock-solid backing of the Congress, and of the President, and of the newsmedia. And of religious fundamentalists. And, anyone who would challenge a President in that circumstance, would then be quickly labelled un-American. Such outcomes are becoming increasingly likely.

Pence is a solid neoconservative and passionately supported invading Iraq; he was a full-bore George W. Bush fundamentalist-Christian Republican, and remained that at least up till the time when Trump chose Pence as his running-mate, on 15 July 2016.

Indiana’s Governor Mike Pence became chosen by Trump as his Vice Presidential running-mate because Trump needed, and Pence already strongly had, the support both of the Koch brothers (and their political network of billionaires who together funded the Tea Party segment of the Republican Party) and also of the fundamentalist Christian community (including the “Moral Majority” Jerry Falwell network, and the “Christian Coalition” Pat Robertson network). Pence describes himself as “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican — in that order.” And, as The Hill has reported, “Pence has long had close ties to the Koch network.” That means he’s committed to eliminating the federal regulatory agencies, especially the Environmental Protection Agency, but all others being at least greatly weakened if not turned over completely to control by the corporations they regulate. The petroleum Koch brothers are famously libertarian, and this means especially liberty for corporations (particularly the biggest ones), but most of all for their own corporation, which is the second-largest privately held corporation in the U.S. What’s religious doctrine for fundamentalist Christians, is economic doctrine for economic libertarians; and, ever since the founding of libertarianism in the 1940s, fundamentalist Christians (such as Gary North) have been prominent libertarians.

What Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas have been on the U.S. Supreme Court, Mike Pence would be in the White House. All three men not only are (and were) patriarchal, but are (and were) intensely partisan right-wing fundamentalist Christians whose conception of “religious freedom” is largely comprised of religious slavery in which the U.S. federal government will be imposing, by means both of law and policy, Christianity and biblical law, upon atheists, and upon agnostics, and upon adherents to non-Christian faiths — requiring them to be funding, in their taxes, some Christian monuments and activities (including private schools). To these Christian fundamentalists, “freedom of religion” means freedom only within religion, and only with Christianity on top (and with Judaism close behind because the Bible includes the Jewish Scripture, the Pentateuch). Of course, that accepts but subordinates Muslims, but it also accepts but subordinates Hindus and many others, and so it borders on racism (though of a Christian sort), even if it’s not quite racism. (It’s more accurately categorized as supremacism.) And, as one would expect, Pence is solidly for the death penalty, and for ‘tough’ policing, and against homosexuals, and against abortions (as also are/were Scalia and Thomas). ‘God’s Law’ tends to be harsh. And, when Pence, as (or campaigning to be) a public official, describes himself as “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican — in that order,” what’s omitted from that list is more important than what’s on it; “an American” isn’t even on the list of what he thinks himself primarily to be; and, a U.S. public official whose top responsibility is to carry out the U.S. Constitution, isn’t being merely ignored in the self-characterization by a public official such as that; it’s being implicitly negated by that person’s stated commitment to a supposedly ‘higher’ Law than the U.S. Constitution: to ‘God’s Law’ (the Ten Commandments etc.), in this country, where no mention, at all, is even made of “God,” much less of “Christ,” in our Constitution. They want their unAmerican selves, to define “American” for everyone, but the Founders had already defined “American,” by their Constitution; and, though they tolerated, as being Americans, persons of any beliefs at all (including even Nazis, and even Communists), no one except by means of an Amendment to the Constitution that they wrote, would be authorized to revise the definition that they wrote. Any poseurs who would try to do otherwise and rewrite the Constitution (so as to subordinate it to some ‘God’, or otherwise) are revolutionaries, even if (such as Pence) of a sort that seeks to restore something closer to the type of government that this country’s Founders overthrew and replaced. A revolution can be backward; not every revolution is necessarily forward; and a conservative revolution in America can go back to the aristocratic system that preceded our democratic one — go back to Americans being subjects in a kingdom, instead of citizens in a democracy. It has already almost happened, and Pence could complete it.

The Democratic Party’s “Think Progress” blog is accurate in its claims and documentation in their article “Mike Pence, your friendly neighborhood ‘theocrat’”, where Pence’s biblical views regarding homosexuality, abortion, and other biblically condemned matters, are linked to, so that one can explore those issues in depth, to understand the President’s commitments, if and when Pence becomes the President.

Prior to Trump’s having selected Pence on 15 July 2016 as his V.P. running-mate, Pence’s only articles or statements about his vision for the nation and for the Republican Party were published at his campaign site “Mike Pence for Congress,” between 1991 and the year 2000, when he finally won a seat in Congress. So, the quotations here will be from that time, and they show what the unvarnished Pence is. The dates he said these things are all no later than 17 April 2000 (as is indicated by the earliest URL listing them being where the “20000417” means that it was recorded on 17 April 2000, and so the articles with these titles were linked-to at Pence’s site by no later than that date).

Here, then, is the unvarnished Mike Pence, before he was able to hire speechwriters etc., to polish his apple, or to give himself a mental facelift:

“Time for a quick reality check. Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn’t kill.”

“Global warming is a myth.”

“The blame-ocracy has concluded that social conservatives, read that pro-life, pro-family voters, were the cause of the [Republican] party’s troubles. … It brings to mind the adage of that great Republican President Calvin Coolidge who said, ‘not all Republicans are stupid people but all stupid people are Republicans.’ The idea that relegating 40% of the GOP vote to second class status is a prescription for victory had to have been concocted in the twisted mind of some overpaid political consultant. … The reason I am optimistic is, apart from God’s sustaining grace, quite simple. Republicans, from George Washington to George W. Bush just have better ideas. … Eventually, Republicans will return to the promotion of those great ideas.”

That last one is remarkable: George Washington was a “Republican,” and Calvin Coolidge was a “great” President who said that “all stupid people are Republicans” — and Pence seconded the thought.

But Pence seems to have convinced all the Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives. And so they did “return to the promotion of those great ideas.” Wikipedia notes that, “In January 2009, Pence was elected by his GOP colleagues to become the Republican Conference Chairman, the third-highest-ranking Republican leadership position.” Evidently, they all agreed with Pence, that Calvin Coolidge had it right, that “all stupid people are Republicans” (even if not necessarily with George Washington’s having been a Republican before there was even any Republican Party). (Wikipedia: “Founded in the Northern states in 1854 by anti-slavery activists, modernizers, ex-Whigs, and ex-Free Soilers, the Republican Party quickly became the principal opposition to the dominant Democratic Party and the briefly popular Know Nothing Party.” George Washington died in 1799. Pence’s timeline was a little off.)

However, a google-search for the field — “all stupid people are republicans” coolidge — shows “No results found for coolidge ‘all stupid people are republicans’.” On the other hand, a facebook post from a New York Democrat, Mitchell Joseph, dated 25 February 2013, did say exactly what, prior to 2001, Pence had attributed to Coolidge. Furthermore, a Democratic Underground discussion in 2004 focused on exactly that same phrase: “Not all Republicans are stupid, but all stupid people are Republicans.” So, that statement can be described as a bipartisan opinion: bipartisan between Democrats, from at least 2004-2013, and the Indiana Republican Mike Pence in 2000 (and, presumably, all House Republicans at the time when Barack Obama was becoming President in 2009 and they all voted Pence their #3 leader).

And, Donald Trump’s choice of Pence to be Vice President of the U.S. proves Trump himself to be one of the stupid Republicans, regardless of what Calvin Coolidge said. Evidently, Trump was going after voters like himself.

Here was Representative Pence’s statement in the U.S. House, on 25 February 2003, supporting George W. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq (after Bush had failed to win U.N. authorization to do that):

“The United States Security Council adopted Resolution 1441. We hear a great deal about new resolutions. I applaud the President’s effort to try and exhaust all diplomatic means this week.

But let us be clear what 1441 said. Mr. Speaker, number one, it said that Iraq is guilty. No objective observer doubts that Iraq has violated 17 U.N. resolutions.

Number two, it said that Iraq could remedy its guilt through disarmament and disclosure.

Number 3, if it refused to remedy, it would be a material breach, and serious consequences should flow.

Mr. Speaker, Baghdad is guilty. Baghdad refuses to remedy. Serious consequences are in order. I stand with the President of the United States.”

He even confused the U.N. Security Council with being a branch of the U.S. Government.

When the United Nations Security Council, on 8 November 2002, adopted Resolution 1441, the U.S. promised, “This resolution contains no ‘hidden triggers’ and no ‘automaticity’ with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required.” On that basis, Russia and China and France allowed it to pass. On November 13th, Iraq agreed to comply with the Resolution. Weapons inspectors returned to Iraq on November 27th, led by Hans Blix of UNMOVIC and Mohamed ElBaradei of the IAEA. No WMD were found, but the U.S. and UK intended to call the Security Council back into session to authorize invading Iraq because the inspectors said that there remained “presently unresolved disarmament issues” and the need for continuing their work. On 10 March 2003, French Prime Minister Jacques Chirac announced that France would veto any authorization for an invasion unless and until Iraq ordered the weapons-inspectors out or else blocked their inspections, which Iraq was fully cooperating with. A majority of UNSC members then indicated that they would vote against any resolution leading to war. America’s pretense to be acting in compliance with U.N. resolutions ceased immediately. The U.S. didn’t call the Security Council to meet (as the U.S. had promised to do if it would propose to invade), because now clearly the U.N. would not authorize an invasion. The U.S. and UK thus simply went rogue on the U.N. The U.S. ordered the U.N. weapons-inspectors out, because the U.S. was going to invade and bomb there, regardless, so the inspectors would possibly die if they stayed. The U.S. was now in open violation of the U.N. The ‘hidden triggers’, which the U.S. had promised didn’t exist, turned out to have been the combination, of Resolution 1441 itself, plus of America’s lie about how the U.S. would interpret it, and about what America’s intention at introducing it was: America’s intention was actually an invasion with or without U.N. authorization but preferably with such authorization. Pence’s support for the U.S. invasion and massacre of Iraqis continued, regardless. Nobody knows what Trump felt about the invasion (except that he didn’t think it was being done in the most effective way, which better way — to do an evil thing — he never specified), but Pence clearly and passionately supported all of it. Furthermore, Pence is supported not only by the fundamentalist Christians, and by the Kochs’ network of libertarian billionaires, but also by the entire neoconservative establishment, who ran G.W. Bush’s foreign policies. He also has consistently supported NAFTA, and supported President Obama’s proposed TPP, TTIP, and TISA trade treaties, all of which were ardently supported by America’s international corporations (the chief — if not only — beneficiaries of those treaties).

Here were some of Trump’s voters during the Republican primaries. Pence was selected so as to appeal to them and to the Kochs, and to the neoconservatives, and to the religious right, and to the neoconservatives. Pence is even more of a Republican than Trump is. If and when the people who control the Republican Party decide to replace Trump by Pence, they’ll probably succeed at achieving America’s most-hard-right turn, ever.

Trump made some of his pre-election pitches to progressives, but Pence never even pretended to be a progressive, at all. If Pence becomes President, the far-right Republican Party will be totally and unequivocally in control. This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not totally in control now: Trump’s promises to progressives turned out to have been all lies. But Pence is a deeply committed far-right Republican. He has no commitments whatsoever — not even lying ones — to progressives. The fact that Democrats want to replace Trump by Pence shows that today’s Democratic Party is, itself, only fake ‘progressives’. Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard sometimes condemn the Democratic Party, but perhaps ultimately they’ll have to abandon it altogether (and run for elections only as themselves, no Party — which was the way America’s Founders intended American politics to be run). The idea of a non-partisan public official is the bedrock ideal upon which the Founders planned America. Tragically, they failed, and this is the ultimate result of that failure. The problem in America isn’t that the aristocracy are funding only two Parties; it’s that they are funding any at all. The Founders tried but failed, in this their dearest of all hopes. All they achieved now is to have replaced the British aristocracy with an American aristocracy (albeit without titles of ‘nobility’). We’re finally back to square one, after 241 years.


Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of  They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of  CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

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  • jo6pac

    The trumpster is killing Amerika and the world but pence would truly be the nightmare for all.

    • mike2000917

      Nope. Sorry. You are wrong. America is doing just fine under President Trump and considering that alternative, HRC, America is doing very, very well.

  • Jack Murray

    I get the impression that you feel there is some worthy Democrat available. This is a good presentation of ‘be careful what you pray for’. With the push for any kind of person accepted into the military, even if they primarily serve as admin people-regards tooth-to-tail. which may be the argument for the degrading of the forces in itself. There is a slim chance with Trump that wars will not expand. Not a chance the other way if either a Dem, Rino or whatever else you can define. With that military changed as demanded, the net equation is that no one gets out of the coming draft, should the installation of any of the warmongers be installed. No mater how it shakes it out, we may be witnessing the fall of the Republic. You are correct, the party thing was well warned against. But, as I like to remind people, Obama was not eligible under the ‘Natural born citizen’ requirement. Did you write a big long diatribe over that? I have done my time in the military. I have no children. So, ultimately, I don’t give a damn.

    • LostInTheStars

      Obama was as much a warmonger as Trump. And Hillary Clinton was more of a warmonger than either Trump or Obama.

      • cettel

        I agree with that, too.


    All you have with these “bought and paid for presidents” is more of the same. If you want real leadership, go into a homeless camp and pick a well spoken homeless person. Anyone can be president, get over yourselves, none of you are impressive! Due to the lack of Corruption and Familiarity with Suffering and having more in common with the American People, the Homelss Person is your best Hope!

    • ZARTAN

      Oh, and for all of YOU Christians ( and you are many) with Reading Comprehension Problems, ” JESUS WAS A HOMELESS PERSON!”

      • LostInTheStars

        And Jesus told his disciples to abandon all worldly possession. He began his ministry with a plea for land reform that would bring “good news to the poor.” Pence offers only good news to the rich. Sadly Democrats, in spite of their rhetoric, aren’t a lot better.

        • ZARTAN

          If people would only listen. Those who are wise enough to BE HOMELESS, follow the example, and they will not be blamed for the Calamities that come because they did not participate, like JESUS.

          Today, there are over 150-Million Christians in America. They could change the world, without firing a SHOT, if only they knew JESUS!

          Jesus gave it all away … In Coreographed Instruction for Future Generations:

          Caesars Coin was a Call to Rebellion. A Coin is a Disembodied head on a Silver Platter … Jesus, “Drew Attention to the Image on the Coin.” He said, “Render to Caesar that which is due Caesar.” Jesus knows the Only thing Due Caesar is Death.

          Jesus Instructed His Followers to Gather Swords.

          Jesus Turned over the Tables on Wall Street in Jerusalem.

          The Gordian knott is on Wall Street, and HE who Controls WALL STREET, Controls the World. God makes it dissappear in Revelation 18:21 … So, if Christians want a Peaceful End than they better get busy.

          TIME IS SHORT.

          Patients does not last forever and it is not to be Abused. Billions have Died because of Wall Street and it is “Overdue Judgement,” ( Revelation 6:10) plus Penalty and Interest!

          • ZARTAN

            Oh, and In conclusion … You all participate and help YOUR government ( by and for the people) as you all pay tax voluntarily and do not protest against the evil of government. These facts make Legal Action against US Citizens, especially the Patriotic, Cake. And, if I can do this in a Few Lines … Imagine, what Lucifer can do? Jesus is not going to be able to save those who give their patriotism to the BEAST. John 2:15. This is why they want your Patriotism, America!

            Wake up, because YOU cannot serve GOD and the US government!

            You all better think about it, and, THINK HARD!

          • Mr. Ed

            Somebody actually gets it. The US government is evil incarnate. They have probably killed more people than the top 3 dictators combined. Or at least helped write up the lists of groups or nationalities to exterminate… Wait, let me rephrase that as, the US government is the lap dog of those who want total control of this planet. Reducing world population down to 500 million well trained slaves to serve these wannabe demi-gods.

            I’m with Jesus, sell your cloak and buy a sword!

          • LostInTheStars

            I don’t like Wall Street any more than you do, but Jesus confronted evil only with nonviolence. He told Peter to put his sword away. He said blessed are the peacemakers.

          • nomadd

            well, he was violent on at least one occasion. when he drove out wall street from the church.

  • kimyo

    and, presumably, all House Republicans at the time when Barack Obama was becoming President in 2009 and they all voted Pence their #3 leader

    so, voting for pence in 2009 meant that house republicans agreed with all of his positions?

    thus, when you voted trump/pence in 2016, then likewise you must have embraced all of their positions?

    ps: if you really think that president pence is such a bad thing, how in the world did you bring yourself to press ‘trump/pence’ on the screen? did you not think things through?

    pps: pence might actually be right on tobacco – it’s not the plant, it’s the fertilizer which causes lung cancer: Radioactive tobacco

    Cannabis is often compared to tobacco, with the damage caused by smoking tobacco given as a reason to prohibit use of cannabis. Yet most of the harms caused by tobacco use are due not to tar, but to the use of radioactive fertilizers. Surprisingly, radiation seems to be the most dangerous and important factor behind tobacco lung damage.

    Tobacco Companies Knew of Radiation in Cigarettes, Covered It Up

    Tobacco companies knew that cigarettes contained a radioactive substance called polonium-210, but hid that knowledge from the public for over four decades, a new study of historical documents revealed.

    Scientists from the University of California, Los Angeles, reviewed 27 previously unanalyzed documents and found that tobacco companies knew about the radioactive content of cigarettes as early as 1959. The companies studied the polonium throughout the 1960s, knew that it caused “cancerous growths” in the lungs of smokers, and even calculated how much radiation a regular smoker would ingest over 20 years. Then, they kept that data secret.

    ppps: the guy you endorsed throughout 2016 just put single payer out of its misery: Medicare: We Cannot Begin From a Position of Compromise. Sanders Bill “To Cover All Americans”?

    Recent reports are that Sanders’ bill falls far short of HR 676 in fundamental ways. In fact, Sanders’ bill is a multi-payer system not a single payer system. His bill reportedly would allow private insurers to compete with the public system, allow the wealthy to buy their way out of the public system and allow investor-owned health facilities to continue to profit while providing more expensive and lower quality health care.

    still think sanders is fighting for the little guy?

    • Army of Addicts

      With Pence as president, lung cancer doesn’t look so bad after all.

      Got a light, partner?

      • kimyo

        smoke ’em if you’ve got ’em….

    • ZARTAN

      Everyone falls for the larceny of the medical industrial complex. The Diets of Americans cause more sickness and pathology, ( Heart Disease, Diabetes, Obesity) but nobody is trying to ban/tax fast food or sugar. Alcohol was banned and that did not work; however, Alcohol is so toxic that you can kill yourself with it in one sitting. Alcohol causes Cancer. Alcohol contributes to vehicle accidents and crime. Alcohol is addictive. Alcohol is worse than tobacco.

      Everything causes damage, even vitamins, so it gets old hearing this BS from ASSHOLES in a nation that does not even provide healthcare to its citizens. The FDA marketed and allowed tobacco for sale to the general public. They also allowed the Tobacco Companies to spike the nicotine levels. This is intentional. The Government “Addicted” the nation to Tobacco than raised the price. Remember, the sick shit they did to the Indians? Wake up and Smell the Coffee, People! The US government is no better than Street Level Drug Dealers. I use to work as a medical professional so I know all the SMOKE they blow and how much is saturated in BS.

      The Fact that Fukushima blew its load “all over the planet” and nobody cares is a form of Mass Insanity. I am sick of idiots trying to tell me what to do. I am sick of the Constitution being abused and products taxed to DEATH without any representaion, whatsoever! If you Idiots want to be “Health Freaks” than BAN ALL FAST FOOD and ALL SUGAR PRODUCTS and Alcohol ( everything that is bad for your health) TAX IT TO DEATH; becuase BIAS is BIAS … And, America … YOU STINK OF BIAS!

      btw, America …
      Stay the FK away from my Cigarettes or I may take Your Head.

    • ZARTAN

      The Post below is Addressing the “Nation of Fools” ( especially, the medical fools) who have Biased Smoking, As if they are some Holier than thou Bastion of Godliness!! The Average American is a Floating FAT body of Diseased Pathology!

      And, I am laughing at YOU, America!

      You see, I enjoy Cigarettes, because it is a soothing tonic that I ingest with pleasure to mask the demoniac stench of humanity that has fouled this Earth!

  • ICFubar

    Tomatos – tomatoes – Trump – Pence – Clinton or Sanders….’lets call the whole thing off” and just let the real front men, McMasters – Mnuchin – Cohn – Tillerson and Mattis take the heat as they are running the place anyway. Elections are so passe. Think of the money saved and the headache relief from not having to listen to the bickering occupants of the legislative branches by disbanding the house and senate. This would be a God send and the people might actually decide to start running the place themselves in their own interests for the first time ever.

    Meanwhile, when no one is looking NAFTA is being re negotiated as the reincarnation of the TPP. A bigger threat to the well being of the public in general I can’t imagine. The first round is already completed. Easily done when they just lift the text from the TPP and copy it under a NAFTA letterhead. The second round is set to begin in Mexico today, September 1st and finish on the 5th. Talk about flying under the radar!!

  • LostInTheStars

    1. Apparently this theocrat doesn’t know much about his precious Bible. Nowhere in the entire Bible is abortion said to be morally wrong. As to homosexuality, Jesus never addressed the issue, while he constantly addressed economic and social inequality. The ultimate criteria for Jesus were feeding the poor, clothing the needy, tending to the sick, visiting people in prison, etc. As a harsh critic of the Roman Empire and the high priests who did their bidding, Jesus was crucified for the crime of sedition. Trump is a Christian heretic.

    2. Pence is worse than Trump.

    3. Virtually every Democrat I know will be thrilled when and if Pence becomes president. They are foolishly sticking with Clintonian neoliberalism and interested only in better a better marketing strategy to woo working-class folks who, in spite of their numbers, have no party that even remotely cares about their needs .

    4. I’ve totally given up on the Democrats. As far as I am concerned, the only hope is a third party – and that won’t happen without a charismatic leader like Bernie Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard. Sanders blew an excellent chance to do this when he endorsed Clinton rather than accepting the offer to run at the top of the ticket for the Green Party. Even if he had lost he would have gotten lots of electoral votes and opened up the future for a truly progressive party that can eventually start winning.

    • cettel

      This is Eric Zuesse, and I happen to agree with each of your four points.

    • Army of Addicts

      If, as Christians do, one considers the words of his supposed followers who wrote the books of the New Testament as reflecting Jesus’ intentions and spirit, then yes, homosexuality is clearly an abomination, as Romans 1:27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 indicate. The Torah, the law of God according to Christians as well as Jews, is also clear on the matter in Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13.

      • LostInTheStars

        I see Leviticus as history. As such it contains all sorts of laws that no one has taken seriously for over a thousand years. The Hebrew tribe worried constantly about maintaining a big enough population to sustain itself. Semen was precious material not to be wasted in acts that won’t make more babies. In First Corinthians Paul is clearly condemning all forms of promiscuity including adultery. If you want to stick to the exact wording (which I don’t) you would have to say that lesbianism is OK since he doesn’t mention women.

        For Christians, Jesus is the final authority. He said we should love everyone and that we should not judge others. He was far more interested in compassion for the unfortunate and in issues like ending poverty than he was with what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Jesus was a friend of prostitutes, thieves, and lawbreakers. When asked about homosexuality Pope Francis said, “Who am I to judge?” As a heterosexual male, I feel the same.

        • Army of Addicts

          Semen was precious?
          You’ve got to be kidding me!

          • LostInTheStars

            We are way off topic, but: No semen, no babies. No babies, the Hebrew tribe fizzles out and becomes extinct. The sin of Onan was that he spilled his seed on the ground (coitus interruptus.) Leviticus is a mixed bag. It contains ridiculous and obscene laws (e.g. women who don’t bleed on their wedding night are to be stoned to death), but it is also the source of the Jubilee Year, which – in my thinking – is the ancient Hebrews’ greatest contribution to moral progress.

            The Ten Commandments say nothing about homosexuality. The prophets railed continually about social and economic justice, but not one of them said anything about homosexuality. It was a minor issue at best. Many contemporary churches are just fine with homosexuals – United Church of Christ runs ads on TV inviting them to join. The Episcopal Church has ordained several gay priests. I know one of them quite well.

          • Army of Addicts

            The Torah consists of 613 laws, not 10. Denominations are split-offs from the parent church, but they all will tell you that the entire Bible is God’s word, a fact established by the Roman Catholic Church which, supposedly sanctioned by Jesus himself, would naturally be the most reliable interpreter of what he said. If denominations claim that the RCC fell away from the true message of Christ, how are they so sure that the RCC was in union with Christ when the text was originally canonized?

            There is nothing in the New Testament that says one should obey only ten of the Commandments. In fact, a call to faith in Christ is said to be accomplished not by works of the law, but through faith in Christ. So, the Ten don’t really apply, do they?

            I’m not arguing as to whether the God of Christianity approves of gays or not, I’m just stating what the Scripture says. And in the time it was written, it was probably taken quite literally in regards to acceptable human behavior. You can see now that contradictions can arise with little effort.

            And in case you hadn’t noticed, there’s always been plenty of seed to go around. Onan’s sin was probably just meant to be a lesson to show kids there’s more to life than selfish pleasure.


    Eric Tried to have me Banned –for nothing– so, Eric is PRO-Censorship and that is the wrong way. See, I disagree with the Nonsense He writes, but I would never call for Him to be Censored. He has a Right to Post and Express Himself. So Sad that He thinks Others should be Censored and is Totally Unfamilular with the Constitutioanl Rights as they apply to “Protest, Bearing Arms and Citizens Arrest ( Authorizing Force).” You have RIGHTS to DEFEND YOURSELVES, PEOPLE! Sad, indeed, because without proper understanding there will never be any change, none whatsoever!

    Republican and Democrat are PUPPETS Strung by the Same Master!

    Only Revolution can bring Change. America is the only nation, that ever existed, where REVOLUTION is LEGAL. So Sad that people cannot comprehend.


    And, in conclusion, I am done posting because I refuse to waste anymore of my time on subjects that are completely useless. Nothing will ever Change, EVER, until people own up to their Failures to Stop that which they willingly participate in. You all pay tax and support the US government. You refuse to protest or even use your Constitutional rights! You are all so GD afraid of Violence that you would be completely useless in any event.

    I am sorry to have to share the same planet with such people who are responsible for Murdering BILLIONS, Stealing TRILLIONS, and Doing Innumerous HARM to Quintillions of Souls! You enable and support the US government, and, by “ANY” and ALL: LEGAL DOCTRINE … YOU ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR GOVERNMENT! Call for PEACE, and you Patronize Your Government, because while you make “PEACE FOR THE WICKED,” MILLIONS will BE MURDERED BY YOUR GOVERNMENTS PROFIT WARS ALONE!

    Good Luck trying to pass off Your lame PEACE arguments on the Creator! None of you could get past me, but all you did was bemoan my style ( tell me to get lost, or threaten me with Bias Bans) of trying to give you all a sense of proportion of the Crimes committed in Your Name. I promise you one thing, GOD will not Tickle your Ears, in the Afterlife, because you will all HAVE “US TAX PAYER” written in Blood upon your Foreheads! And, Every Penny Will be Accounted for, Christians!

    See You, ALL, Soon.


  • Army of Addicts

    The term suprematism doesn’t really have the same shock value as does the term racism.

  • Army of Addicts

    The Summer of Love ended 50 years ago. It reshaped American conservatism.

  • Sarastro92

    Good. Railroad Drump out of office and bringing in even nastier Mike Pence, who will be president for another 8 years…