34-minute video confuses fuel dumps, other spraying with ‘chemtrails;’ 110-minute video cites environmental damage possibly linked to chemtrails; 8-minute video of historical precedence to plane-spray civilians with deadly chemicals

hat tip: zengardner

My March 20th article with three minutes of video attracted two prolific commenters (Colophon and Thor) claiming these are not chemtrails, but condensation trails from engine and environmental effects. I invited their responses for this follow-up article; they are below.

I had originally stated that the following 34-minute video from NWOResistance HereAndNow refuted contrail arguments because it shows spraying from various nozzle locations on different planes, such as at these video times:

  • 10:21: one wing nozzle spraying chemicals.
  • 13:30: one wing large nozzle spraying chemicals.
  • 14:02: two tail arrays of nozzles (four per tail side) spraying chemicals.
  • 14:16: one nozzle on each side of the cabin spraying chemicals.
  • 14:20: two wing nozzles spraying chemicals.
  • 25:30: two wing nozzles spraying chemicals.

The documentation of Thor and Colophon (links/video below) show:

  • 10:21: fuel dump for an emergency landing.
  • 13:30: no source of further information.
  • 14:02: corexit spray in the Gulf of Mexico (a huge concern).
  • 14:16: government and media claim of “mosquito spraying.”
  • 14:20: NASA vortice text with smoke spray.
  • 25:30: fuel dump.

I appreciate Thor and Colphon’s contributions for factual accuracy. I have changed the article title, and have these concerns:

  1. I have witnessed an explosion of these “trails” in the NoCal Bay Area skies over the past few years.
  2. The below documentation of large-scale government crimes “covered” by official and corporate media lies has me be concerned that chemical spraying might be “covered” as contrails.

This 110-minute video from GeoEngineering Watch explains possible motives of weather, food, and population control:

In additional evidence, consider this 1-minute BBC advert for the 2013 Wimbledon Tennis tournament that intentionally includes CGI multiple chemtrails added to the skies in the commercial. This is from the same BBC that lies in commission and omission about the UK/US lie-started and Orwellian illegal current wars. This appears to be propaganda to “normalize” chemtrails.

For historical context, this 8-minute video from HowStuffWorks documents five previous cases to disperse deadly chemicals via plane aerosols to an unknowing public:

Thrive’s documentation: Danger: Chemtrails – Aerial spraying of toxic chemicals:

Over a hundred patents [1] have been granted to major corporations, including Monsanto, for aerial spraying of materials that can penetrate your lungs and blood, cause disease, disrupt your mental capacity, cause you to be sterile and even cause premature death.

The government has refused to test samples collected underneath the trails. Now a TV news report from Germany has confirmed that their military is in fact doing aerial spraying of chemtrails.[2]  An article from the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, confirms that not only are chemtrails real, but they are suspected to be responsible for a variety of neurotoxic conditions including MS.[3]

Intense spraying of dangerous chemicals from planes has been reported in, at least, the US, Canada, Germany, England, Australia, Mexico, South Africa, Bahamas, Puerto Rico and Croatia. A nasty mixture of parasites, pathogens, toxic heavy metals and nano-engineered particles have been found falling to earth from the trails of certain planes. Aluminum, barium, bacillus spores, radioactive thorium, cadmium, chromium, nickel, desiccated blood, mold spores, yellow mycototoxins, ethylene dibromide and synthetic nano-fibers are among the ingredients found in collected samples.[4]

Want to Know’s documentation: Chemtrails, Geoengineering, and background on human experimentation (and here).

The militaries and intelligence agencies of many countries have been conducting secret tests on their soldiers, and even their citizens for many decades. Adamant denials are often issued in response to any inquiries on these tests. But then, sometimes only decades later, the truth is revealed in public testimony, as happened in the 1975 Senate Church Committee hearings on the CIA’s secret experiments. Excerpts from a Wall Street Journal article below show that “open-air tests of biological agents were conducted 239 times” by the US military. Yet all of this was kept secret from the public for decades, including the resulting casualties.

Declassified government documents show that as early as 1950, the San Francisco bay area was secretly sprayed by the US military with what was thought to be a harmless microbe to test aerosol dispersion. According to a 2004 San Francisco Chronicle article on this, “army tests showed that the bacterial cloud had exposed hundreds of thousands of people in a broad swath of Bay Area communities.” At least one person died and 11 were hospitalized as a result of this test.

More recently, J. Marvin Herndon, a renowned geophysicist whose groundbreaking work has been reported in the Washington Post and more, has confirmed aerial spraying of aluminum on a wide scale, which he says is threatening the health of humanity and our planet. In the abstract for one of his scientific papers, he states:

“In response to an urgent call through an article in Current Science for assistance to understand the geological association of high aluminum mobility with human health in the Ganga Alluvial Plain, I describe evidence of clandestine geoengineering activity that has occurred for at least 15 years, and which has escalated sharply in the last two years. The geoengineering activity via tanker-jet aircraft emplaces a non-natural, toxic substance in the Earth’s atmosphere which with rainwater liberates highly mobile aluminum.”

Please note that the two commenters of my article ignored eight total requests if they see anything at all illegal of government actions (although commenter Colophon e-mailed me in agreement of War Crimes and others requiring arrests). Ignoring government crimes is consistent with government propagandists and in common-sense violation that anyone caring to do the research they claim would find nothing illegal among the following Emperor’s New Clothes obvious:

The above facts are by definition consistent with a chemtrail purpose to weaken, kill, and control large portions of populations. Even if you’re unsure about chemtrail evidence, illegal and lie-started wars are required and basic citizen knowledge to honor all our families’ sacrifices through two  devastating world wars.

Demanding arrests as the required and obvious public response:

The obvious categories of US .01% “leaders’” crimes include:

  1. Wars of Aggression (the worst crime a nation can commit).
  2. Likely treason for lying to US military, ordering unlawful attack and invasions of foreign lands, and causing thousands of US military deaths.
  3. Crimes Against Humanity for ongoing intentional policy of poverty that’s killed over 400 million human beings just since 1995 (~75% children; more deaths than from all wars in Earth’s recorded history).

US military, law enforcement, and all with Oaths to support and defend the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, face an endgame choice:

In just 90 seconds, former US Marine Ken O’Keefe powerfully states how you may choose to voice “very obvious solutions”: arrest the criminal leaders (video starts at 20:51, then finishes this episode of Cross Talk):

Colophan and Thor’s points on three topics:

1. Regarding the March 20th article’s 2-minute video from GeoEngineering Watch:

Carl: I see full-wing spraying turning on and off.

Colophon (via May 17 e-mail):

The first video, as I explained in the comments, shows contrails from an EVA Air Boeing 777 en route from Taipei to San Francisco. The video was stolen without permission from Douglas Huang, who uploaded it in 2012. It was filmed from a China Airlines 747 which was following the same route.

I contacted Mr Huang to let him know that Dane had taken his video and added his own totally baseless narration to it. He filed a complaint with YouTube but for whatever reason they allowed it to stay up. Mr Huang has since taken his video down, for unknown reasons. Attached is a screenshot confirming the above.

Wouldn’t you agree this shows breathtaking dishonesty by Dane Wigington? Stealing a video without permission and adding a narration to claim it shows something that it clearly does not? Contrails are a well understood phenomenon. Due to increased air traffic and more efficient engines (with a corresponding increase in contrail factor) they are now becoming so common that contrail cloudiness is an issue that may require action. Have you seen the IPCC predicted maps of contrail cover by 2050? Making up nonsense about “spraying” simply distracts from real issues. Contrails are a minor factor in global warming, not “the greatest threat to humanity” as Dane likes to say.

You don’t need an expert witness to see that Dane Wigington is talking through his hat.

(after my request that he stick to what he sees, via May 17 e-mail):

They are aerodynamic contrails. You can see that they are coming from the entire control surface of the wing, not from the engines or any spraying nozzles.

Aerodynamic contrails can form if the air is very humid but just below saturation point. As the air passes over the wing, the pressure drops (this is how the wing generates lift). By Boyles Law (pV = nRT) if you decrease the pressure of a given volume of air, then the temperature will also decrease. Colder air can hold less water vapour than warmer air, therefore if you decease the temperature the relative humidity will increase.

If the pressure drop (and therefore temperature drop) is great enough, then the relative humidity will rise above the saturation point and therefore the air will hit the dewpoint and condensation will occur.

You can often see this at ground level when planes are landing, but at low altitudes the condensation quickly evaporates. You can see it for example here: from about 0:05 condensation is blooming from the entire wing surface.  https://youtu.be/Nfd8gwK-oh4

Now you may say “Ah ha but that condensation only lasts for a few seconds, Dane’s video shows a persistent trail”. That’s because Dane’s video shows a B777 at cruise altitude. At cruise altitude, if aerodynamic contrails form then the condensation will often glaciate (freeze). Once the droplets have frozen they will act like exhaust contrails (or indeed cirrus clouds) do, and therefore they will persist if the conditions allow.

I have given a rather simplified version of how aerodynamic contrails form. There’s a much more in depth analysis of the parameters required in this paper published in the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences (American Meteorological Society: http://contrailscience.com/files/AC%20Phenomenology%20and%20flow%20physics.pdf

I apologise if you’re offended by the ad hominem, but it gets a bit wearying being called a “troll” and a “shill” for trying to explain to people that contrails are not killing them, or (as Dane does) having comments explaining his videos deleted without ever appearing to the public.

(Correction: I should of course have said the ideal gas law, not Boyles Law, which is just one facet of the ideal gas law)

Thor: (from below comment):

The first question- colophon is exactly correct. Its an aerodynamic contrail. Formed by change in air pressure over the wing. Its different than an exhaust contrail. Here is scientific validation of their existence:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008JAS2767.1

and much more:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=aerodynamic+contrail&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

Moreover- here is the SAME pilot filming on a different day capturing the exact same phenomenon from a different angle:

(Carl response: this video certainly does NOT show persistent and thick effects as shown in the 2-minute video in this article! I invite all interested to view the video to confirm the view from Thor’s video is only and always directly at the plane and within one plane-length’s view.)

Thor: Sorry- I was refering to the image on the screen as the video is embedded in this thread- it is a screen shot of this video- this video is also an aerodynamic and was filmed by the same pilot:

(Carl question: Do you agree it’s possible to mask chemical spraying as persistent contrails, Thor?)

Thor: It’s really not that hard to review the relevant scientific and historical record over the last 60yrs and get a basic understanding of the scientific consensus and basic science involved. Logic would suggest that that would be the first place to start in terms of research on what is and isn’t possible in the atmosphere.

…and yet you cannot take that position and then turn around and claim you understand enough about “chemical spraying” to know if it could be “masked” by contrails. That’s a logical fallacy. Your appeal to authority notwithstanding.

(I noted to Thor he failed to answer the question, and asked again)

2. Regarding the above 34-minute video from NWOResistance HereAndNow at 10:21, 13:30, 14:02, 14:16, 14:20, 25:30:

Carl:

  • 10:21: I see one wing nozzle spraying chemicals.
  • 13:30: I see one wing large nozzle spraying chemicals.
  • 14:02: I see two tail arrays of nozzles (four per tail side) spraying chemicals.
  • 14:16: I see a nozzle on each side of the cabin spraying chemicals.
  • 14:20: I see two wing nozzles spraying chemicals.
  • 25:30: I see two wing nozzles spraying chemicals.

Colophon:

In answer to your question, the majority of those clips show emergency fuel dumping from aircraft. This is indeed a form of pollution but it is only done in an emergency if the aircraft has to land while still above the safe landing weight (for instance if a plane fuelled for a long flight has to return to the airport soon after takeoff).

It’s worth noting that fuel dumps do not form persistent trails (like contrails or what get called “chemtrails”) — the fuel quickly evaporates and does not form lasting clouds.

Two of the sections you mention are not fuel dumps. The one at 14:16 is a photo of a C-130 spraying for mosquitoes, taken from here: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/07/10/low-flying-plane-is-on-a-mosquito-mission/

And the one at 14:20 appears to be a crop of this photo of a 1974 wake vortex study using smoke generators on a 747 (a photo that gets used a lot by chemtrailers) http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/about/Organizations/Technology/Facts/TF-2004-14-DFRC.html

Thor:

on the time stamps-

10:20 is a fuel dump- the original video is here:

13:30 not sure- looks like a fuel dump

14:02- AF spraying corexit in the gulf- here is the original image:
http://news.discovery.com/eart…
http://grist.org/article/2010-…

14:16- not sure.

14:20: is a NASA vortice test from 1974- here is the original picture which Wiggyton actually used but neglected to mention the source or the test:

Thumbnail

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Galle…

25:30; another fuel dump- here is the original video:

 

Alas, none of these are really the same thing as the trails coming from the engines of planes that people claim are ‘chemtrails’.

It took me about 30 minutes to source the originals of this supposed “proof”. Why havent you done this already?

Does it matter that the video in question is also filled with pictures of ballast tanks for flight testing and its being purveyed as “proof” of chemtrails. Don;t you see this disingenuous, lying propaganda for what it is?

Thumbnail

(Carl response: Thank you, Thor 🙂

So that seems to resolve a few of those images; I appreciate you looking. If you’re interested in the topic of large-scale crimes, you might look into the corexit chemical spraying, btw.

I’m still concerned about a few areas:

1. the 14:16 apparent chemical spraying from both sides of a plane’s cabin.
2. the apparent ability to dump chemicals indistinguishable from any natural occurring water condensation. Do you have a better answer for this point?
3. the context of what experts find as MASSIVE crimes of state centering in war, money, and lies. This is not a “meme”, straw man argument, or “politics” if you care to look. I am one such expert who can easily explain, document, and prove such government crimes, and invite anyone who cares to attempt refutation. You shouldn’t make such claims when you apparently haven’t looked. You may wish to do what I have done: ask and then look at the evidence.

You asked why I didn’t look for myself. I asked Colophon and you to provide what seems a topic of interest opportunity to express more than I think I could provide (Colophon says he’s a scientist and journalist).

Oh, the video does show tremendous volume coming from jet engines at the 15:47 mark, if you’d like to comment.

You also asked if the video is somehow propaganda since it shows images that are refuted as “chemtrails.” I answer that I don’t think so. “We the People” are indeed faced with massive crimes and only “hobby time” and resources to communicate our responses.

I find enough evidence of concern to appreciate the video.)

3. Regarding seeing any large government crimes, such as illegal and lie-started Wars of Aggression as documented in this article:

Carl: Please see this article’s documentation above.

Colophon: (via May 16 e-mail, and so far choosing to not include in my two article requests for public consideration)

There are plenty of areas where politicians should be subject to arrest. The fabricated WMD claims that led to the war in Iraq (which saw up to 3 million people take to the streets in protest in the UK and maybe 12 million people around the world) at the top end of the scale, the faked and inappropriate expenses claims we have seen from dozens of MPs at the other.

Then there are the countless examples of government policies being set with ulterior motives based on business interests. The systematic dismantling of the National Health Service is a great example – pushed through by politicians with ties to private healthcare companies which will benefit from privatisation. That’s an issue that is particularly close to my heart.

Thor: (from below comment):

The third question is also easy- I don’t trust the government. Sometimes they lie and cheat.

(my follow-up: “Thank you. Do you see any crimes requiring arrests, such as lie-started Wars of Aggression as documented in this article?”)

Thor: Again…the whole “crime against humanity” meme is a strawman. My politics have nothing to with whether “chemtrails” are real or not. I am here to discuss the facts regarding supposed “chemtrails”.

(My follow-up: The responsibility of citizen understanding of basic laws is something you see as “politics”? I won’t ask again, but with all families sacrificing through two world wars, you know nothing and have no curiosity about lie-started and illegal Wars of Aggression in the present?

Say whatever you wish, Thor. I will contribute it to public understanding.)

**

Note: I make all factual assertions as a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History, with all economics factual claims receiving zero refutation since I began writing in 2008 among Advanced Placement Macroeconomics teachers on our discussion board, public audiences of these articles, and international conferences. I invite readers to empower their civic voices with the strongest comprehensive facts most important to building a brighter future. I challenge professionals, academics, and citizens to add their voices for the benefit of all Earth’s inhabitants.

**

Carl Herman is a National Board Certified Teacher of US Government, Economics, and History; also credentialed in Mathematics. He worked with both US political parties over 18 years and two UN Summits with the citizen’s lobby, RESULTS, for US domestic and foreign policy to end poverty. He can be reached at Carl_Herman@post.harvard.edu

Note: Examiner.com has blocked public access to my articles on their site (and from other whistleblowers), so some links in my previous work are blocked. If you’d like to search for those articles other sites may have republished, use words from the article title within the blocked link. Or, go to http://archive.org/web/, paste the expired link into the box, click “Browse history,” then click onto the screenshots of that page for each time it was screen-shot and uploaded to webarchive. I’ll update as “hobby time” allows; including my earliest work from 2009 to 2011 (blocked author pages: here, here).

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  • Demonocracy

    With all the evidence and a judge in Boulder Colorado ordered a woman to relinquish her child on the grounds that she was unfit to be a parent solely on the basis that she believed in chemtrails.

    • Thor

      thats not what happened at all. It was a custody battle between ex spouses, Her ranting about chemtrails at her childs school was only part of the decision to award the child to their father. The fact she was out of work and homeless also played a role. LOL.

      The chemtrail theory has enough problems with the Facts as it is without people making even more things up.

  • jadan

    Since 1998 I’ve been aware of chemtrail spraying. Initially it was an outrage and remains an outrage today, but the public has never protested, even though lots of people are very annoyed that many sunny days are denied us. There was a time when emergency rooms were often crowded by people taken ill,but the perps do not push too hard with that kind of experimentation. That a lie so large could go unchallenged for so long is astonishing and disheartening. Americans are so ignorant and passive and so completely gullible! 911 is the same type of lie in plain sight, more egregious even than chemtrails. It is more than a little quixotic to imagine that these perps can be or will be brought to justice. The vast herds of people are grazing animals and so long as the stock market doesn’t collapse and they are fed, they will remain grazing animals, not self-aware humans….

  • Merrifield

    This seems to be much more openly discussed in Europe. See geoengineering-governance-research.org. These are researchers and scientists out of Oxford and the University of Sussex. Check out some of the papers in the top tab—this isn’t a secret over there!

    • nomadfiles

      they aren’t as mind controlled as the US

      • Merrifield

        That would appear to be the case!

  • Just Watching

    If it’s any consolation, the lackeys of the federal entity get sprayed along with everyone else. Probably more so… Could explain why Hillary is always coughing! Hacking up a lung!
    *
    Imagine the literal blizzard of wifi radiation the average federal employee is subjected too. Especially a president or cabinet secretary. They probably even have microwave cannons disquised as video cameras.

  • nomadfiles

    Thank you. The Colophon/Thor attack on that post was malicious.

    • Thor

      facts are not an attack. Unless you are immune to reason.

      • nomadfiles

        says the guy who ignores every item of evidence placed before him.
        do you have a mirror in that cover storied house in which you dwell?

        • Thor

          Ignore? I have addressed every piece of baseless claims you have thrown up. You just ignore the facts I present and move on the next claim.

          There is no consequence for error for you…zealotry has blinded you.

          • nomadfiles

            “zealotry has blinded you”
            LOL!!! you definitely have no mirrors in your house.

            but wait. that’s a mixed metaphor. if you did have mirrors they would be of no use to you.

          • Thor

            I am open to being wrong. prove that the info i present is false. Provide irrefutable evidence that your Belief is correct and I will admit that I am wrong.

            Can you say the same? Doubtful- you even admitted that you were unwilling to look at the info I presented- just assume it was “bogus” and all the scientists bought off.

            My description is apt.

          • nomadfiles

            give that man a cookie

          • Thor

            “Does that mean that planes are not spraying aerosols? No.”

            that is correct. BUT it DOES mean that you CANNOT look up and see a jet leaving a long, persistent, spreading trail and claim with any level of veracity that its a “chemtrail”. This is an important understanding.

            I get that you find it “dubious”- but can you at least try to explain WHY you think that? Why is it dubious that under certain conditions ice crystals would persist and spread? Can you provide ANY documentation to support your belief?

            I have addressed almost every piece of evidence that you and carl have presented. The plane interiors are ballast tanks for flight testing:

            http://www.ausbt.com.au/photo-tour-inside-qantas-boeing-787-dreamliner-sydney-event

            more:

            https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=931&q=flight+testing+ballast+tanks&oq=flight+testing+ballast+tanks&gs_l=img.3…4361.11432.0.11642.28.8.0.20.20.0.170.767.5j3.8.0….0…1ac.1.64.img..0.11.777…0.5JSfl0spLsk

            Patents? I seen huge lists of patents but none that actually provide any evidence- there is a good discussion of that here:

            https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-patents-as-evidence-of-chemtrails-geoengineering-existence-operability-or-intent.t3704/

            AC Griffith “scientific” paper was retracted by the publisher for poor science. It was not peer reviewed and did not withstand even a cursory review of the facts and methodology. I am sure you will dismiss this but his paper has been considered as “evidence” and examined and subsequently dismissed.

            Not sure which “scientists” you are refering to but happy to take a look.

            I HAVE reviewed all the evidence you mentioned. I will review ANY new evidence that can be presented. Just because I disagree with your interpretation of doesnt mean I am a ‘shill’ or havent actually looked at it.

            Thus, your hypocrite comment is FALSE.

          • nomadfiles

            yes you can. for all the reasons given. images of spraying apparatus. trails stopping and starting. and the sheer number of trails. the fact that most planes dont normally leave trails, aerosol clouds left behind, soil, water samples, all lead to the conclusion that these planes are almost certainly spraying. and THAT is an important understanding.

          • Thor

            “the sheer number of trails”

            How many flights are there everyday in the US? Any idea?

            “the fact that most planes dont normally leave trails”

            What do you mean? please explain.

          • nomadfiles

            i’ve explained about all i’m going to to you.
            all you’re interested in is pointless argumentation

          • Thor

            LOL. I’ll take that as a “I dont know”.

            I ask fundamental questions about the understanding of the issue and its “pointless”

            You claim its “extremely rare” and yet cant explain why? What am I supposed to do with that?

          • nomadfiles

            “What am I supposed to do with that?” LOL!
            Do really want me to answer that question?

          • Thor

            do whatever you want. But the fact remains that your claims are empty.

            You cannot actually back up your claims even if you tried.

            You must know this that is why obfuscation is your MO.

          • nomadfiles

            obfuscation!!! look wkos talking

          • nomadfiles

            ‘under certain conditions ice crystals would persist and spread’

            yes, certain extremely rare conditions
            what we see with chemtrails is daily.

            you’ve addressed a lot. you’ve proved nothing

          • Thor

            “extremely rare conditions”

            What are the conditions?

            How do you know they are rare?

            Provide evidence they are rare.

          • nomadfiles

            see discussion of high bypass turbos

          • Thor

            I have. Its bunk. The issue of the water vapor that is created by combustion is not addressed. Water vapor is still being ejected into the atmosphere. Hot water vapor and soot into very, very cold air. What do you think happens?

            However- that doenst cover your lack of knowledge regarding the actual conditions that are suposedly “rare”. If you do not even know what the conditions are, how do you know they are rare?

          • Thor

            you keep saying its rare but can offer no reasoning or supporting documentation.

            Your claim is contradictory to the established scientific understanding of contrail frequency. I already pointed out that persistent, spreading contrails were being described as “familiar sight” and “often” in the late 60s and early 70s.. I could link several more papers written over the following decades that prove- irrefutably- that persistent, spreading contrails are not “extremely rare”- Indeed if that were the case then there would not be such a large body of research studying their effects.

            Seriously- either back up your claim or quit making it.

          • nomadfiles

            Carl Herman said it very well.
            “I am under no obligation to respond to your information, Thor; you have zero authority over my actions.”
            I have already pointed you to the people who have the expertise to answer that question. Look’em up or don’t. It matters not one way or another to me. I will continue to discuss this subject as I see fit and have no intention of jumping through your hoops. Take your Jedi mantra elsewhere. These are indeed the droids I’m looking for.

          • Thor

            You welcome to take your ball and go home. But if you make claims you should be prepared and able to back them up…otherwise they are just empty claims without ANY factual basis and people will see them for the bullshit they really are.

            Good luck with that.

          • nomadfiles

            I will do as I please.

  • Charlie Primero

    ‘Chemtrails’ is like ‘9/11 Beam Weapons’. Both are disinformation campaigns designed to misdirect Truthseekers down unproductive rabbit holes far, far away from the real criminals who did 9/11 and who chemically poison human populations.

    Anyone you see promoting those two ideas is either an incompetent researcher, or a compensated agent of purposeful deception.

    I believed in ‘Chemtrails’ until I submitted all my evidence to the crucible of criticism here: https://www.metabunk.org/contrails-and-chemtrails.f9/ Mick West is harsh but fair. If you have not done this yet, you have no right to criticize me.

    • nomadfiles

      Your POV sounds familiar. Citing a familiar source.
      “As long as people talk about the normal stuff on the Internet, they’re (the PTB) okay.”
      As long as you can marginalize it to fringe sites, it’s okay. But when others take notice, sites like this for example, they get worried.

      • Charlie Primero

        Every minute the Elites keep you busy chasing shadows and disinformation campaigns like ‘Chemtrails’ is a minute you cannot spend fighting them.

        Spend some time reading at: http://gnosticmedia.com and http://tragedyandhope.com

        • nomadfiles

          you guys are a riot

    • Carl_Herman

      Charlie: you address zero, zip, nada of the evidence from this article. So with all respect, so far, you are the author of an incompetent comment rather than I as an incompetent researcher.

      I’m open to you addressing any of the above data and/or presenting anything from any other site to address the specific claims, such as I allow Colophon and Thor in the article.

      • Charlie Primero

        I cannot seem to find your posts at http://www.metabunk.org/forums/

        • Carl_Herman

          Because I haven’t posted on this other website, and will not. If you want to address the claims within this article, Charlie (and again, with all respect), then you must address them. You are welcome to include findings of other sites, but on the topics in this article.

          Let me suggest by asking you what you see happening at the time stamps in the 34-minute video. What do you see happening at those time stamps?

          You are welcome to pass them along to your site, which by the way has zero, zip, nada findings of government wrong-doing.

          Charlie, please explain if my few minutes of looking at their forums is accurate. Is this a site that finds no fault in official stories of 9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon bombing, UFOs, etc., while failing to address unlawful Wars of Aggression started on lies, bankster economics, and lying corporate media?

          • Charlie Primero

            The video you posted contains footage of aircraft spraying chemicals. In what context they are spraying, you ignore. This is your error. The site I recommended can help you correct that error.

            If you wish to help the world, stop hacking at the leaves of the problem and strike the root of the problem. Stop wasting time and energy on Elite distractions like ‘Chemtrails’ by learning to employ reason and evidence to identify them as such.

          • nomadfiles

            “Stop wasting time and energy on Elite distractions like ‘Chemtrails'”
            That’s the Jedi mantra. “Stop talking about chemtrails. These are not the crooks you’re looking for.”

          • Carl_Herman

            No, no, no: if, Charlie, you have evidence regarding the context of spraying, YOU have the burden of proof to provide that specific evidence, not throw some entire website you mentioned somewhere else as refutation. Again, this is clear among professionals discussing evidence: you are in error on this point.

            Regarding “hacking leaves,” please respond how the following quote from the article is not “striking the root of the problem”:

            “Even if you’re unsure about chemtrail evidence, illegal and lie-started wars are required and basic citizen knowledge to honor all our families’ sacrifices through two devastating world wars.

            Demanding arrests as the required and obvious public response:

            The obvious categories of US .01% “leaders’” crimes include:

            1. Wars of Aggression (the worst crime a nation can commit).

            2. Likely treason for lying to US military, ordering unlawful attack and invasions of foreign lands, and causing thousands of US military deaths.

            3. Crimes Against Humanity for ongoing intentional policy of poverty that’s killed over 400 million human beings just since 1995 (~75% children; more deaths than from all wars in Earth’s recorded history).

            US military, law enforcement, and all with Oaths to support and defend the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, face an endgame choice:

            1. Demand arrests, with those with lawful authority to enact it. An arrest is the lawful action to stop apparent crimes, with the most serious crimes documented here meaning the most serious need for arrests.

            2. Watch the US escalate its rogue state crimes that annually kill millions, harm billions, and loot trillions.”

          • Charlie Primero

            The easiest example of deception you could verify in that video is the footage of the aircraft spraying over water. I recognize that as footage of them spraying oil dispersants during British Petroleum’s oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

            The U.S. Government is a vast criminal enterprise. Anyone who accepts a paycheck made possible for via FedGov funding is an accomplice.

        • 3Point_Pete1

          Mick West is admittedly not a scientist and metabunk is a corporate astroturf site designed to build fence lines around criminal activity. Contrails vs. Chemtrails is really a side discussion as we know that cloud seeding, weather manipulation, and SRM (solar radiation management) technologies have existed for decades and are openly discussed at IPCC meetings.

          From the
          US National Academy of Sciences
          (1992):
          Large-scale engineering of our environment in
          order to combat or counteract the effects of
          changes in atmospheric chemistry.
          4
          From the
          UK Royal Society
          (2009):
          …the deliberate large-scale intervention in the
          Earth’s climate system, in order to moderate
          global warming…
          Geoengineering can usefully be divided into two
          basic ‘classes’:
          1. Carbon dioxide removal (CDR) techniques
          which remove CO
          2
          from the atmosphere;
          2. Solar Radiation Management (SRM)
          techniques that reflect a small percentage of
          the sun’s light and heat back into space.
          5
          From the
          American Meteorological Society
          (2009):
          Geoengineering proposals fall into at least three
          broad categories: 1) reducing the levels of
          atmospheric greenhouse gases through large-scale
          manipulations (e.g., ocean fertilization or
          afforestation using non-native species); 2)
          exerting a cooling influenc
          e on Earth by reflecting
          sunlight (e.g., putting reflective particles into the
          atmosphere, putting mirrors in space, increasing
          surface reflectivity, or altering the amount or
          characteristics of clouds); and 3) other large-scale
          manipulations designed to diminish climate
          change or its impacts (e.g., constructing vertical
          pipes in the ocean that would increase downward
          heat transport).

          http://www.etcgroup.org/sites/www.etcgroup.org/files/publication/pdf_file/ETC_geopiracy_4web.pdf

          • Thor

            cloud seeding isnt secret, doesnt involve jets or trails and doesnt even create clouds- ANYONE can hire a cloud seeding company to manipulate the weather over their heads. its a strawman. My local utility has been doing it off and on for 50yrs

            http://www.weathermodifcation.com

            SRM and Geoengineering in general has been discussed for decades- it also is not secret. There are plenty of open conferences. Its just that seeing a contrail persist and spread is not evidence of its implementation.

          • Thor

            “metabunk is a corporate astroturf site designed to build fence lines around criminal activity.”

            Thats a cop out. Its an open forum that looks critically and skeptically at claims of evidence. As claims of evidence should be looked at. Its allows any and all claims to be examined and allows a wide range of discussion provided you dont make it personal and can stay on topic.

            If people are truly confident in their evidence then there should be nothing to fear- you should want to go directly to the supposed opposition to expose it- back slapping amongst Believers isnt going to cut it…hiding behind excuses is a cop out.

          • Carl_Herman

            Thor: does this site find any crimes of government, past or current? In my look at the topics, I found none.

          • Thor

            Thats not what the site is about. Its about looking at claims of evidence and trying to decide if they are true or not.

            But you would have to look for yourself, Or start a topic to pursue your claims.

          • Carl_Herman

            I did look, Thor. Quoted from their “About” page: https://www.metabunk.org/about-metabunk.t1966/

            “Discussion topics tend to focus around the bunk in 21st century topics such as 9/11, claims of false flags, recent claims of pseudoscience, and modern manifestations of the “New World Order” theory, like Agenda 21. The focus is not so much about the paranormal, cryptozoology or religion – unless there is some interesting new claim of evidence.”

            So, Thor, please explain that government crime, such as “false flags,” is as you say, “not what the site is about.” I’ll assume your findings are in agreement of mine: a site that finds zero, zip, nada government crimes.

          • Thor

            Its not about “finding crimes of government”. Its about claims of evidence…of crimes of government.

            If you have evidence of crimes of government- that would be the perfect place to examine the evidence. Its skeptical, rational, and polite. Something rare on the interwebs.

          • Carl_Herman

            Ok, and this site claims to examine claims of evidence concerning “crimes of government” such as 9/11 and false flags.

            I provided you my best academic paper on crimes of government. You might want to look at what I was asked to write for ~2,000 people at a Claremont Colleges international conference last year: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/seizing-an-alternative-recognizing-the-emperors-new-clothes-as-the-story-of-today-1-of-7.html

            From what I saw, metabunk finds zero, zip, nada crimes of government. You might want to inquire into this extraordinary finding when abundant experts find and document such crimes with “Emperor’s New Clothes” ease.

  • ICFubar

    It seems the only way to prove what exactly these trails consist of is to fly up a gather a sample. Besides the conducting of “experiments” what is the net effect on planetary temperature I wonder? Is “trailing” meant to accomplish some corporate desired effect like perhaps warming the Arctic for easier exploitation of resources and less costly maritime shipping? The postulations seem endless but the clear blue skies of my youth have now been replaced with powder blue to hazy white skies now. Something is up in the skies that wasn’t there before.

    • Carl_Herman

      Agreed. I’ve always enjoyed our skies in NoCal in the areas of Pleasanton, Dublin, San Ramon, Danville, and the last few years have witnessed an attack of these chemtrails smearing our skies with God knows what.

      I know I’ve seen the beauty of our hills and skies in appreciation, and over the last few years seen our clear skies replaced with ongoing attacks of sprayed chemicals.

      • ICFubar

        Yes, something is going on but without irrefutable scientific proof theories, no matter how well laid out, are still just theories. But my hat is off to you and others pursuing this phenomenon that is most likely just as you describe.

        One thing I’ve noticed is that the skies seem to have cleared as far as I can tell when viewing the cosmos at night. Then during the day the “sky writers” are back. This is in southern British Columbia. I’ll have to pay attention to the jets that pass overhead at night and see if they affect the clearness of the skies at night. Cheers…

        • nomadfiles

          to stay it’s just theories does not minimize its significance nor preclude activism against it. remember, evolution is just a theory yet the entire scientific enterprise is organized around that ‘theory’, as well as theories about the cosmos. and with the corruption of science in support of this program scientific proof is no longer the sine qua non proof of its existence.
          http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/how-the-phds-have-wrecked-the-world/

        • nomadfiles

          The patterns vary. One pattern I have noticed, over years of observation is that the spraying seems to follow the path of the sun.As if they were trying to interpose an aerosol canopy between the sun and the city. And of course, that is just for the particular metropolitan area in which I live. In this protocol, beginning before dawn, they spray along the path of the rising sun, Usually stop active chemtrailing by midday. The trails are allowed to spread and merge together in the afternoon. There would be occasional ‘touchup’ chemtrails in the evening to replenish the canopy. Haven’t observed at night much. As I say, it’s not always this pattern. But I have observed it enough to notice that it is a pattern.

          • nomadfiles

            It was quite remarkable as I started photographing these morning trails. They were of the start and stop type. The vector was always the sun. There would be no trails in the other parts of the sky. I discovered that I could not get pictures of these morning trails (except with lots of effort) that did not include the sun.

          • Thor

            “One pattern I have noticed, over years of observation is that the
            spraying seems to follow the path of the sun.As if they were trying to
            interpose an aerosol canopy between the sun and the city.”

            The position of any trail in relation to the sun is entirely dependent on the position of the person on the ground. What to you is a trail between you and sun is a trail far away from the sun to someone 20-30 miles away looking at the same trail.

            Simple logic.

          • nomadfiles

            simple. i acknowledged that in the post. what that means is that in that particular protocol my locale is being targeted. perhaps its just me that the chemtrailers are targeting, but i suspect its really the entire city. indeed, it would be hard for them to spray me from 40,000 feet without spraying the entire city.

          • Thor

            Its likely just you.

          • nomadfiles

            we can do this all day, junior

          • Thor

            can you understand that someone 20 miles from you will see the same trail but it will not be anywhere near the same relation to the sun as you see it?

            Does this simple logic register with you? or is it too complicated for you to understand?

          • nomadfiles

            well d’uh

          • Thor

            right…so your belief that its “following the path” in the sun is a fictional belief based only on where you stand at the moment of observation. The Believers 20 miles away seeing the same trails will not have that same belief based on their observations.

            But what do you care…reality is clearly not important to you. LOL

          • nomadfiles

            the question is ‘what do YOU care?
            so you’re going to tell me that i didnt see what i saw.
            and thats aside from whether they were chemtrails or contrails.
            they were laid in the path of the sun, whatever they were.
            and this targeting of the city means that the laying of the trails were engineered.
            i dont know what the purpose of that protocol was but if i had to guess i would say they were trying to artificially cool down a major metropolitan area. BTW Believers 20 miles away would see the same thing nonbelievers 20 miles away would see.
            how long are you going to continue with this pointless sophistry?

          • Thor

            again, you dont seem to have the capability to understand. You saw what you saw…but appointing a specific purpose to the trail in relation to the sun is a fools errand given the reasons explained above.

            please try to read for comprehension.

          • nomadfiles

            fools errand? are you volunteering?

    • nomadfiles

      “Pilots operating large passenger aircraft today must be able to tell the public what the deal is so why are they not being interviewed?” AC Griffith said that the info is compartmentalized and pilots are often unaware. He also said it’s dangerous to speak out for those that are aware. ‘People have died for this’, he said. Along with the people he mentioned I’d add Ted Gunderson. Of course pilots would probably not suffer the ultimate penalty but their careers could be severely impacted..

      • Thor

        Has it occurred to you that a passenger plane could not carry enough material to “spray” horizon to horizon…do the actual logistics and feasibility ever come into play?

        On the other hand, a jet plane creates about 7 tons of water per hour at cruise level.

        • nomadfiles

          that’s like saying a bug spray container doesnt hold enough material to spray whole house.
          its aerosols, dude, it can spray for hundreds of miles at a time

          • Thor

            if thats the case then please back that claim up with the relevant documentation, dude.

            A plane can only carry so much weight. Your analogy is false.

          • nomadfiles

            you back it up. quit trying to tell me what to do. it aint gone work

          • Thor

            right- god forbid you back up your claims- LOL.

          • Thor

            Please rebut this factual analysis if you can:

          • nomadfiles

            i told you. our discussion is through.
            now we are just trading one liners.
            you have no credibility in my eyes.

            To quote Dane once again. “If they refuse to accept what they can see with their own eyes there is nothing more you can do for them. Move on to others that are ready to face reality.”
            https://youtu.be/iK9nVR9H34g

          • Thor

            You asked me to back it up. I did.

            I dont need credibility, I have facts.

            You quote Dane but Dane is a proven liar…so, so much for his credibility LOL.

            Although the quote from Dane is exceedingly apt to your disposition.

            Good luck with that.

          • nomadfiles

            “I dont need credibility”
            That’s a fortunate coincidence then. Otherwise you’d be up a creek.

          • Thor

            why would you post a video thats been proven to NOT be “spraying”?

            Why does Dane lie?

          • nomadfiles

            when did i do that? i dont recall? where?

          • Thor

            he claimed the video you posted was “irrefutable proof” when its just a video of a aerodynamic contrail. Please explain

            Dane is a proven liar yet you cannot be bothered to even remotely question anything he says.

            Good luck with that – LOL

          • nomadfiles

            oh. THAT video. that IS irrefutable proof. no wonder i didnt know what you were talking about.

          • Thor

            whats happening in this video- same pilot, different day

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOqQYbe_E8&feature=youtu.be

          • nomadfiles

            before i answer this youhave to swear allegiance to the chemtrail gods

          • Thor

            So, you admit “chemtrails” is a religion for you. fascinating.

            That would explain your blind adherence to myth and why you reject facts.

          • nomadfiles

            sarcasm is lost on you

  • Jeff Larry

    Let’s assume that the chemtrails are a real thing. Someone please answer these questions for me:

    1) Who are “they” that are spraying “us”? Given that everyone involved lives on the same planet, wouldn’t the spraying affect “they” as well as “us”? What would be the point of spraying something that will affect you as well others you are targeting, for whatever nefarious purpose?

    2) What are these chemicals, and where on the airplane are these chemicals stored? Where at the airport are these chemicals stored? Who delivers them? Who supplies and manufactures them? Who loads them onto the plane? Surely there must be an airline employee, or a delivery person, or some other person that can bear witness to the allegation.

    3) The spraying would be controlled by the pilots, I suspect. How is it that so many pilots around the world are willing to spray allegedly dangerous chemicals, presumably onto their own families? Why has no pilot ever come out publicly as a witness to the alleged activity?

    • Carl_Herman

      Good questions that require arrests to begin answering. If the evidence of spraying, as apparent from the film evidence, is valid, then arrests to stop an apparent crime begins lawful authority to get responses from those involved.

      I can guess some answers: sheeple follow instructions until they become people.

      • Jeff Larry

        I do not believe that arrests are necessary to inquire on why pilots would spray their own families, how chems are loaded to the airplane, how they get to the airports, where they are stored, etc. These are not legal questions, but are more logistical or practical in nature. I’m not saying that chemtrails are not or could not be true, certainly possible given our global history. But it seems that this would require an inconceivable amount of agreement, silence, complicity, etc by literally thousands upon thousands of people from around the world.

        • Carl_Herman

          Arrests are necessary as the one and only legal tool to stop an apparent crime (public spraying of unknown chemicals). Please explain what other tactic you recommend to intervene upon pilots who are following orders.

          These are clearly legal questions, Jeff, because spraying unknown chemicals is a crime, agreed?

          If you want to compare how this is possible, thousands of people engage in US unlawful and lie-started Wars of Aggression, as documented in this article. This is possible through similar silence by “former” colonial government leaders, their “official corporate” medias, and ignorance of ordinary people trusting authority.

          • Jeff Larry

            When a crime has been committed, arrests must be made – agreed. But what would these arrests be based upon? There must be reason to believe a crime has been committed, or at least enough evidence to warrant an arrest. Then through legal process evidence is presented, and a verdict adjudicated. I’m not sure that level of evidence exists here. The video is one case, and cannot be used as a proxy for all airplanes, everywhere. It is unfathomable to me that something of the scale and magnitude that’s being alluded to here can be executed without someone, somewhere blowing a whistle. On a smaller scale? Yes, I can see how there may be testing or use of chemicals for whatever reason, that are made to mimic contrails, thereby avoiding suspicion. But on a global scale? That can certainly be a singular case as shown in the video. I simply cannot square that with the apparent lack of evidence that would at least an spur an official investigation, prior to arrests. The fact that “TPTB” have undertaken illicit, immoral, or illegal activities on a grand scale in the past isn’t evidence of crimes elsewhere. Who is spraying? Why are the airlines (pilots) cooperating, what’s in it for them? If they’re being paid, then where is the money coming from? What are they spraying? Why are they spraying? How is this effort being managed or operated? Where do the purchase orders and chemicals come from? Would we not need at least partial answers to these questions before we can make investigations and arrests?

            Again, I’m not saying it can’t be true. But it seems implausible that a coordinated effort of this scale could be undertaken without the truth seeing light.

          • nomadfiles

            “I’m not saying it can’t be true.”
            In so many…many…words, yes you are.
            “Nothing to see here. citizen. Move along.”

          • Carl_Herman

            The arrests would be made from evidence of spraying unknown and potentially harmful chemicals into the sky, similar to if evidence were found of spraying unknown and potentially harmful chemicals into our water or onto our food.

            If you want to conclude the overall evidence of previous spraying in our history as documented in the article, along with current evidence doesn’t cause you alarm to issue arrests (that is not a trial for findings of fact, but merely to lawfully stop an apparent crime and answer to investigative questions to discover if the apparent crime is an actual crime), you are welcome to that conclusion.

            Answer us this: how are unlawful Wars of Aggression possible with that coordinated effort of an even larger scale without the truth seeing light to the extend we have arrests???

      • Thor

        “if the evidence of spraying, as apparent from the film evidence, is valid”

        And if its not?? What then?

        Will you update the title of the article to reflect the level of validity of the video?

        • Carl Herman

          Yup. Done 🙂

          Thank you for your contributions for factual accuracy.

    • nomadfiles

      A lot of these questions are addressed in the video. Did you watch it? The spraying is controlled by computers it said at one point. Not everything can be known. It’s a covert departmentally compartmentalized operation. Pilots may not be aware of what they are participating in and if they are they are held hostage to their careers. However, not everything needs to be known to make definitive statements about the program(s). And demand answers.

    • nomadfiles

      “1) Who are “they” that are spraying “us”? Given that everyone involved lives on the same planet, wouldn’t the spraying affect “they” as well as “us”? What would be the point of spraying something that will affect you as well others you are targeting, for whatever nefarious purpose?”
      A very important question. Go to 14:00 in the video.
      ‘first put on aircraft carriers for battle field imaging”
      would not work over land without conductivity… sprayed aerosols allows it to work over land…DARPA gets involved program gets expanded… snowballs in compartmentalized processes … becomes an entity in its own right…and all of the people involved are just following orders. That’s who they are and why they are poisoning themselves and their families. They are order followers of a program that has mushroomed with a velocity all its own.

    • nomadfiles

      “Answering the deep question of “WHO” – this documentary offers a new perspective on “HOW” Chemtrails are sprayed from military jets and “WHY” commercial airlines have increasingly been enlisted to participate in spraying the skies over global populations with no end in sight.

      The public is becoming aware that the weather and climate as the new opportunity for control by organized crime in it’s many manifestations.

      The ominous takeaway from this documentary is that the brutal power and stupid criminal activity that allowed the assassination of JFK is now controlling the natural resources and climate of planet earth.”

      https://youtu.be/U1Qt6a-vaNM

      Source: http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2015/01/16/chemtrails-who-in-the-world-is-spraying-now-revealed/

  • MCB

    “It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” – Voltaire

  • Dec 21, 2014 Chemtrails the secret war

    “This documentary is dedicated to everyone who wants to fight for truth and life on planet Earth. Let’s stand up and defend our rights ! ” Antonio and Rosario Marciano

    https://youtu.be/U-5VnMIiKPY

    March 06, 2014 Chemtrails and The Consequences of Toxic Metals and Chemical Aerosols on Human Health Part I By Dr. Ilya Sandra Perlingieri

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/chemtrails-the-consequences-of-toxic-metals-and-chemical-aerosols-on-human-health/19047

    • nomadfiles

      This is a good video. At 15:29. Pathogens found in chemtrails. Not just aluminum barium and manganese. ‘we found things that should not be there’

      • There is so much happening with these Fascist in control you have to read and view hundreds of well informed sites. Like this news you never hear about. Why is this?

        May 29th, 2016 Your Radiation This Week No. 58

        (San Francisco) May 28, 2016 – Good Day, this is “Your Radiation This Week.” These are the Top Recorded Radiation Highs that affected people for the last week around the United States.

        War Crimes in Progress There is no way to recover from these kinds of exposures. There is no medicine and there is no cure. Millions now possess a shortened life span due to their radiation exposures. Are you next or already Zapped?

        Radiation CPM * City StateThe Top Reporting Radioactive Cities are listed. The highest radiation reporting city is listed first, the least radioactive city reporting is listed last.

        Listed in Counts per Minute, a Count is One Radioactive Decay Registered by the Instrument.

        Still, all reporting cities are above normal. These are a portion of the American cities that exceeded 1,000 CPM this week.

        COUNT TIMES NORMAL CITY, STATE TYPE OF RAD Corrupted? Normal Radiation is 5 to 20 CPM

        1,445 CPM, 289 Times Normal, Colorado Springs, CO. Beta, Gamma. Yes

        1,345 CPM, 269 Times Normal, Portland, ME. Beta, Gamma.

        1,329 CPM, 265.8 Times Normal, Raleigh, NC. Beta, Gamma. Yes

        1,290 CPM, 258 Times Normal, Louisville, KY. Beta, Gamma.

        1,198 CPM, 239.6 Times Normal, Little Rock, AR. Beta, Gamma.

        1,160 CPM, 232 Times Normal, Spokane, WA. Beta, Gamma.

        1,148 CPM, 229.6 Times Normal, Idaho Falls, ID. Beta, Gamma.

        1,125 CPM, 225 Times Normal, Navajo Lake, NM. Beta, Gamma.

        1,092 CPM, 218.4 Times Normal, Pierre, SD. Beta, Gamma.

        1,055 CPM, 211 Times Normal, Worcester, MA. Beta, Gamma.

        1,046 CPM, 209.2 Times Normal, Mason City, IA. Beta, Gamma.

        1,032 CPM, 206.4 Times Normal, Billings, MT. Beta, Gamma. Yes

        1,031 CPM, 206.2 Times Normal, San Diego, CA. Beta, Gamma. Yes

        1,022 CPM, 204.4 Times Normal, Tucson, AZ. Beta, Gamma.

        1,021 CPM, 204.2 Times Normal, Atlanta, GA. Beta, Gamma.

        1,009 CPM, 201.8 Times Normal, Grand Junction, CO. Beta, Gamma.

        http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/28/your-radiation-this-week-no-58/

  • voiceofmillions

    Kevin Galalae, UN researcher and activist, discusses the UN’s actual and being-played-out policies of Globalization and Depopulation in this great video interview by the Global Freedom Movement, covered here: https://everydayconcerned.net/2016/04/07/exposing-the-planned-destruction-of-humanity-global-depopulation-as-policy-via-vaccinations-chem-trails-fluoride-chemical-additives-gmos/

    Chem trails/aerosols, he says, are part of this worldwide project, especially prominent in the Western/”developed” world. As also vaccinations. He’s currently on a hunger strike at the Vatican, to persuade the Pope and the UN to stop the genocide: https://www.gofundme.com/chs6x5k4

    It’s interesting that these days the cyber-trolls online are striving to sound on-subject while dismissing outright what the entire world can see with our own eyes–we’re being sprayed.

    It’s hard for many to believe there actually may be a Global Depopulation agenda in action; my first post in response to hearing and reading Kevin Galalae’s vitally important research on this subject is here: https://everydayconcerned.net/2015/10/17/its-official-covert-global-depopulation-is-long-standing-united-nations-agenda-not-conspiracy-theory/

  • Thor

    Sorry Carl- just saw the updated article now- I have a look and drop some replies.

    • Carl Herman

      Good. Please do. If you’d like responses included in the article’s content, please say so in the comments here (not in the previous article already with ~400 comments) or e-mail me: Carl_Herman@post.harvard.edu

      Colophon has gone silent to the questions in this article.

    • Carl_Herman

      It is you, Thor, who didn’t address ~10 of my requests and two e-mails, first of all, but kept commenting in the previous article perhaps 100 times. I read most of your comments, and offer you the most relevant questions (above in this article):

      1. What do you see happening in the 2-minute video you had so much to say about?
      2. What do you see happening in the six time-stamped film evidence of the 34-minute video? (really, Thor, a “litany of new claims”? And after calling my writing “gishgallop”? Do you realize how insulting you are to begin a conversation when you claim to want “rational discussion based on facts”?)
      3. In context of the concern of possible government chemical spraying, do you see any large-scale government crimes, such as illegal and lie-started Wars of Aggression?

      If you’re interested, the three specific questions I’m asking you are above in this article that I will include for public consideration. I doubt I will debate you, but clarify any potential confusion regarding your responses (such as Colophon’s response to what he wrote that he sees in the 2-minute video).

      You are welcome to say what you will, Thor.

      Will you answer the three questions?

      • Thor

        I already stated I didnt see this new article. Too busy playing wack-a-mole with Nomad. My disqus account is old and I signed up with an email I never use. So..sorry for my tardiness

        That still doesnt absolve you from ignoring the information I presented.

        I will address your 3 questions…provided, I get to ask questions of my own that you address and you stick the facts, avoid speculation and abstain from any “shill” or “troll” or other personal attacks. And lets try to go one claim at a time as to avoid gish gallop.

        if you are not willing to address information I present then there really is no purpose for discussion.

        The first question- colophon is exactly correct. Its an aerodynamic contrail. Formed by change in air pressure over the wing. Its different than an exhaust contrail. Here is scientific validation of their existence:
        http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008JAS2767.1

        and much more:
        https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=aerodynamic+contrail&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

        Moreover- here is the SAME pilot filming on a different day capturing the exact same phenomenon from a different angle:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOqQYbe_E8

        The third question is also easy- I dont trust the government. Sometimes they lie and cheat.

        But that doesnt mean contrails dont persist and spread and always have been able to do that. Thats really a strawman question designed to misdirect from the facts at hand. That you Believe 9/11 is an inside job really has no bearing on aerodynamic or exhaust contrails.

        I will address the times stamps when I have more time-

        One question for you- Can exhaust contrails persist and spread? And if not, why not?

        • Carl_Herman

          Ok; you’ve provided an explanation. I am under no obligation to respond to your information, Thor; you have zero authority over my actions. I will provide your information for public consideration of those interested to invest their time to read and view.

          I posted your response to the first of my three questions; thank you.

          I posted your response to the third of my three questions, and respectfully reply that you didn’t answer the question whether you see large-scale crimes requiring arrests of leaders, or you do not see these. This is a “yes” or “no” answer, with a possible example for you to consider of unlawful and lie-started Wars of Aggression documented in this article. I’m not asking about your level of “trust” in government, and if you observe lies or “cheating,” but whether you observe large-scale crimes requiring arrests. Care to answer?

          Regarding your question: If exhaust contrails can persist and spread, this can also cover intentional spraying of chemicals, correct? Regarding a “yes” or “no” answer to your question, I do not have the academic and/or professional experience to answer, so I will responsibly decline to field a question outside my understanding. My interest in writing this article is from 18 years’ direct experience working with three US Presidents, literally thousands of Members of Congress, and two UN Summits regarding ending domestic and global poverty that “leadership” of both parties and corporate media responded to with constant lies in omission and commission, and ongoing cost of ~1,000,000 children dying every month in the most gruesome and slow ways imaginable from preventable poverty. In addition, my concern is from the article’s documentation of ongoing human “experimentation” that has me conclude large-scale poisoning of humanity is entirely imaginable.

          Do you agree it’s possible to mask chemical spraying as persistent contrails, Thor?

          • Carl_Herman

            Oh, Thor: in viewing your provided video that I posted as your response to the first question, I also posted my response that you are welcome to answer:

            (Carl response: this video certainly does NOT show persistent and thick effects as shown in the 2-minute video in this article! I invite all interested to view the video to confirm the view from Thor’s video is only and always directly at the plane and within one plane-length’s view.)

          • Thor

            Sorry- I was refering to the image on the screen as the video is embedded in this thread- it is a screen shot of this video- this video is also an aerodynamic and was filmed by the same pilot:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pySfDjfEhHI

            In the the 2 minute video in question- it looks to still be an aerodynamic contrail albeit at times thicker like you mentioned. Its still the SAME phenomenon.

            Gaps are only logical. Why wouldnt there be gaps? there are gaps in clouds. why?

            It takes certain conditions for contrails (of any type) to form. Is the atmosphere static? Uniform? what happens if a plane fly thru a slightly warmer or drier patch of air- what will happen to the trail? Again, this is simple, basic physics that anyone should be able to understand.

            But when Danes says he has film footage that “proves” it “end of debate”- and then shows footage of a well known, well understood atmospheric phenomenon…well, you see the problem with that…at least you should.

          • Carl_Herman

            Ok, you’re saying a image that is different from the entire video is “the exact same phenomenon from a different angle”? How is this compelling evidence, Thor?

          • Thor

            its yet another example of an aerodynamic contrail….its shows that they exist, they are common (at least to that pilot). It shows very closely that there are no nozzles.

            But again- its a bit of a strawman -whack-a-mole. The vast majority of ‘spraying’ captured on video is of exhaust contrails coming from the engines.

          • Thor

            sigh- what a cop out.

            “I am under no obligation to respond to your information”

            of course not…but then whats the point?

            “I do not have the academic and/or professional experience to answer, so I
            will responsibly decline to field a question outside my understanding”

            Its really not that hard to review the relevant scientific and historical record over the last 60yrs and get a basic understanding of the scientific consensus and basic science involved. Logic would suggest that that would be the first place to start in terms of research on what is and isnt possible in the atmosphere.

            …and yet you cannot take that position and then turn around and claim you understand enough about “chemical spraying” to know if it could be “masked” by contrails. Thats a logical fallacy. Your appeal to authority notwithstanding.

            None of the SRM proposals I have studied involve jet contrails in the troposphere. David Kieths focus is on potential use of planes in the stratosphere above the equator and over the poles.

            But none of that changes the simple fact that looking up and claiming that a long observed, well understood phenomenon is really something else based on nothing more than incredulity and a distrust of government is not a logical premise.

            Again…the whole “crime against humanity” meme is a strawman. My politics have nothing to with whether “chemtrails” are real or not. I am here to discuss the facts regarding supposed “chemtrails”.

          • Carl_Herman

            So, back to our three questions and YOUR opportunity to state what you see:

            1 (on the 2-minute video) : You ignore the question: Do you agree it’s possible to mask chemical spraying as persistent contrails, Thor?

            2 (on the six time stamps of the 34-minute video): no response yet.

            3 (whether you see any large-scale crimes of government): I’ll include what you say in the article, along with this question: The responsibility of citizen understanding of basic laws is something you see as “politics”? I won’t ask again, but with all families sacrificing through two world wars, you know nothing and have no curiosity about lie-started and illegal Wars of Aggression in the present?

            Say whatever you wish, Thor. I will contribute it to public understanding.

          • Thor

            on the time stamps-

            10:20 is a fuel dump- the original video is here:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbTm3G–wYo

            13:30 not sure- looks like a fuel dump

            14:02- AF spraying corexit in the gulf- here is the original image:
            http://news.discovery.com/earth/bp-oil-dispersants-more-toxic-121203.htm
            http://grist.org/article/2010-05-13-want-to-phase-out-a-hazardous-substance-dump-it-in-the-gulf/

            14:16- not sure.

            14:20: is a NASA vortice test from 1974- here is the original picture which Wiggyton actually used but neglected to mention the source or the test:

            http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/B-747/HTML/ECN-4242.html

            25:30; another fuel dump- here is the original video:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XORgDkaV_xk

            Alas, none of these are really the same thing as the trails coming from the engines of planes that people claim are ‘chemtrails’.

            It took me about 30 minutes to source the originals of this supposed “proof”. Why havent you done this already?

            Does it matter that the video in question is also filled with pictures of ballast tanks for flight testing and its being purveyed as “proof” of chemtrails. Don;t you see this disingenuous, lying propaganda for what it is?

          • Thor

            sorry- ddnt mean to post the NASA pic twice.

          • Carl_Herman

            Thank you, Thor 🙂

            So that seems to resolve a few of those images; I appreciate you looking. If you’re interested in the topic of large-scale crimes, you might look into the corexit chemical spraying, btw.

            I’m still concerned about a few areas:

            1. the 14:16 apparent chemical spraying from both sides of a plane’s cabin.
            2. the apparent ability to dump chemicals indistinguishable from any natural occurring water condensation. Do you have a better answer for this point?
            3. the context of what experts find as MASSIVE crimes of state centering in war, money, and lies. This is not a “meme”, straw man argument, or “politics” if you care to look. I am one such expert who can easily explain, document, and prove such government crimes, and invite anyone who cares to attempt refutation. You shouldn’t make such claims when you apparently haven’t looked. You may wish to do what I have done: ask and then look at the evidence.

            You asked why I didn’t look for myself. I asked Colophon and you to provide what seems a topic of interest opportunity to express more than I think I could provide (Colophon says he’s a scientist and journalist).

            Oh, the video does show tremendous volume coming from jet engines at the 15:47 mark, if you’d like to comment.

            You also asked if the video is somehow propaganda since it shows images that are refuted as “chemtrails.” I answer that I don’t think so. “We the People” are indeed faced with massive crimes and only “hobby time” and resources to communicate our responses.

            I find enough evidence of concern to appreciate the video.

            I’ll post your responses; right after I do some family barbecue 🙂

          • Thor

            1. 14:16- just not sure. Looks like a test of some sort. It would be nice if the author of the video montage revealed the source for the images so people can decide for themselves whether or not its “proof” rather than being told so without question.

            2. “the apparent ability to dump chemicals indistinguishable from any
            natural occurring water condensation. Do you have a better answer for
            this point?”

            I beg to differ. None of the images and video clips in the montage in question resemble an exhaust contrail at all. None emanated from the engines or had the tell tale gap between the engine and the start of the visible trail as the water vapor takes time to condense and freeze into ice crystals.

            3. I appreciate your concern for crimes of state- but in a discussion regarding the specific evidence for chemtrails it is a bit of a strawman and distraction from topic. I prefer to stick to topic at hand.

            4. 15:47- looks like a big fat contrail. A modern jet creates about 7 tons of water PER HOUR. Thats a lot of vapor and/or ice. Here is a relatively short dissipating contrail but still very heavy – close up view from cockpit of another plane.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q

            5. If its not propaganda than it really ignorant bullshit. One or the other. A video claiming definitive “proof” of chemtrails when its really just a collection of fuel dumps, ballast tanks, aerodynamic contrails, vortice tests etc…all peddled as “proof” – very, very lame, weak, not proof, not evidence…nothing.

          • Thor

            “I’ll post your responses” Please do so. Its needs to be highlighted that the video in question is a fraud. Your title should probably be changed as its misleading.

            What do you make of Dane Wigginton using images like the 1974 Vortice test and claiming its “undeniable proof” of chemtrails and the “debate is over” because of these images…when he KNOWS full well where the image came from (he took the caption off the picture to use on his website.)

            isnt that lying? deliberate disinfo to further his narrative?

          • Star Bricker

            And it should be noted that Dane was found to be manufacturing pictures by inserting trails into the sky. Several times.
            He was also guilty of not using pictures with the permission of the owner of the pictures. Also several times.
            How can we trust information from someone how steals and modifies someone’s intellectual property? I sure can’t. It proves he is a liar and a showman. And nothing more.

          • Carl Herman

            Did you view the 110-minute video of unexplained environmental damage? As I’ve stated, there is abundant evidence of large-scale government crimes that annually kill in the millions, harm billions, and loot trillions of dollars. “We the People” have only “hobby time” resources.

            I appreciate everyone speaking-up as best we can. You should, too.

      • nomadfiles

        Carl, you have the patience of Job.

      • Colophon

        I agree with Thor that it would be nice if you acknowledged that the claims in the previous video were incorrect before moving on to others.

        I do find it bizarre that in a world with so many injustices, so much greed, pollution and senseless destruction, there are people who believe the contrails left by aircraft are “the greatest crime against humanity in history”!

        It would almost be comical if it weren’t so depressing.

        • nomadfiles

          kinda like agreeing with yourself i’nit?

          • Colophon

            Still trying to suggest that Thor and I are the same person? I can assure you that we are not. I don’t expect you to believe that, after all you don’t believe anything that contradicts your assumptions, do you?

          • nomadfiles

            I don’t believe sophists

          • Thor

            you dont believe in reality either apparently.

          • nomadfiles

            back atcha

          • Colophon

            But you do believe that 70 years of science has been faked, and that every new meteorology, aviation and climate science student gets the secret handshake when they enrol, and not one has spoken out, all to keep the truth that you and you alone can see in the skies a secret?

            Sophistry. Right.

          • nomadfiles

            nope. don’t believe that either. but i certainly dont believe sophists like yourself

  • nomadfiles
    • Star Bricker

      You can do the same with any dark liquid. They are epithelial cells, being shed from the inside of your mouth. And saliva.
      Try again.

  • Colophon

    I have been visiting family and away from email for a few days. I see that Thor has correctly identified many of these images and videos as fuel dumps. I’ve just emailed Carl Herman with much the same identification. The one at 14:16 is a photo of a C-130 spraying for mosquitoes: original is at http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/07/10/low-flying-plane-is-on-a-mosquito-mission/

    Additionally it is worth noting that none of these things (fuel dumps, mosquito spray, smoke generators) form persistent or spreading trails, which are supposedly one of the hallmarks of “chemtrails”. Only a condensation trail is capable of growing, spreading and becoming more optically dense, because it actually gains material from the atmosphere. Any chemical being sprayed will simply disperse to the point of invisibility (or, in the case of fuel, evaporate).

    Condensation, by contrast, can grow because the air contains water vapour. A persistent contrail will have many thousands of times more material in it than the amount of water vapour that was vented by the engine, which is why contrails can be so huge (hundreds of miles long and sometimes several miles wide) despite apparently coming from a relatively small aircraft.

    Simple physics ought to tell you that you can’t spray enough material to cause the whole sky to become overcast. However, you can trigger a phase change of water vapour that is already in the air, and that is what contrails do. It’s unfortunate that the most efficient part of the atmosphere in which to fly is also the part most susceptible to this process, but that’s life. It’s unsightly, it exacerbates global warming a little, but it’s not “the greatest crime against humanity” as doom merchants like Dane Wigington like to imagine. Not even close.

    • nomadfiles

      “Only a condensation trail is capable of growing, spreading and becoming more optically dense, because it actually gains material from the atmosphere. Any chemical being sprayed will simply disperse to the point of invisibility (or, in the case of fuel, evaporate).

      Condensation, by contrast, can grow because the air contains water vapour. A persistent contrail will have many thousands of times more material in it than the amount of water vapour that was vented by the engine, which is why contrails can be so huge (hundreds of miles long and sometimes several miles wide) despite apparently coming from a relatively small aircraft.”
      Most interesting. Actually unbelievable. Please site source for this claim.

      • Colophon

        In what way “unbelievable”? This is decades-old established science. The ice budget of a persistent spreading contrail is many thousands of times greater than the water produced by the engine of the aircraft.

        For example see Knollenberg’s paper which measured the mass of ice in a persistent contrail, available online at http://cires1.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdf

        Quote: “There are at least four orders of magnitude more ice in the contrail core than the Sabreliner originally exhausted!”

        Four orders of magnitude = 10,000x, and as the paper explains, this is sure to be an underestimate.

        Just look at the size of a mature persistent contrail, and then the size of the aircraft. To suggest that all that material is being sprayed by the plane is absurd.

        • nomadfiles

          except what these guys are describing as persistent contrails in all likelihood are chemtrails. they proceed a priori assuming that what they are examining are contrails. if that is indeed the case this is ass backwards science at best, deliberate disinfo at worse. they are trying, as are you, to convince the public that what they see in the sky overhead is normal.

          • Colophon

            At least have the courtesy to read the paper before dismissing it for made-up reasons. They knew it was a contrail because they flew the plane that created it. They knew they were ice crystals because they measured them spectroscopically. And, in case you missed my main point, they cannot be “chemtrails” because within just a few minutes they have grown to many thousands of times heavier than the initial exhaust!

            A Sabreliner is a small business jet, and yet it created contrails weighing 30 kilograms per linear metre, or almost 50 tonnes per linear mile!

          • nomadfiles

            sorry. not going on your wild goose chases. i have already said that even if what the papers say prove to be true in an internal self validating way, there is a question of the assumptions that the papers begin with and of the independence of the writers, and in the long run it wouldn’t matter because there is ample other evidence that corroborates the fact that we are being sprayed.

          • Colophon

            Except there is no evidence. Carl Herman keeps on posting videos, which are supposed to be “evidence”, but they’re not. When you examine each piece of “proof” and find that it is actually fraudulent, how many more do you have to examine before you see that the whole idea of chemtrails is based on a combination of misunderstandings and lies.

            There are lots of things to get up in arms about in this world. The very small contribution to global warming from persistent contrails is way, way down the list.

          • nomadfiles

            We don’t need no thought control

            All in all, you’re just a

            Nother brick in the wall

            Hey!!! Creature!

            Leave my earth alone!

          • Thor

            YOU DONT UNDERSTAND.

            IN THE PAPER HE REFERRED TO THE AUTHOR SAMPLED THE CONTRAIL,THUS PROVING HIS UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS, IN FACT, ICE CRYSTALS.

            You dont really seem to have the ability to reason in a rational manner. WTF?

          • nomadfiles

            and on and on and on and on
            you spoke i spoke
            ive heard what you said and rejected it
            youve heard what i said and rejected it
            and so here we are right back where we started and the circle goes on endlessly

          • Thor

            So, you are rejecting proven fact. Rejecting reality. LOL

            Good luck with that Russ.

          • nomadfiles

            nope. just rejecting sophists

          • Thor

            facts are not sophistry. Use that as you excuse for refusing to acknowledge reality if you must but its just obfuscation.

          • nomadfiles

            its not facts or lack of them that defines sophistry:
            the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

          • Thor

            So, thats what you are doing. thanks!

          • nomadfiles

            thats not what im doing but thank you for thanking me.
            i deserve it

          • Thor

            it absolutely is. Claims with out evidence, claims without reasoning, false claims, refusal to accept or acknowledge proven facts…all with the intention of defending a failed narrative.

            Thats exactly what you are doing.

          • nomadfiles

            so say you. isuggest you go back over this post and the other one (especially the other one [http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/03/3-minutes-video-chemtrails-vs-contrails-wont-know-sprayed-01-arrests-enough-treated-sub-human-need-pain.html] and re-read everything i’ve posted from an objective unbiased perspective. i’ll wait here while you do

          • Thor

            “objective unbiased perspective”

            LOL. what would you know about that Russ?

          • nomadfiles

            ‘what would you know about that’
            a lot more than you

          • Thor

            You certainly have not exhibited this objective unbiased perspective..otherwise you wouldnt claim the information I present is “bogus” without even looking at it.

            No, you really have no interest in the truth- that much is clear.

          • nomadfiles

            go head. read. ill wait

          • nomadfiles

            facts are not sophistry. the misuse of facts is sophistry

          • nomadfiles

            well why didn’t you say that to begin with? i’m not going to read an entire academic paper just to tease out the bit of info you deem relevant. that would be relevant. still in the bigger perspective it does not disprove spraying

          • Colophon

            I did say that. I quoted it in the reply where I gave you the link. There are four orders of magnitude (10,000 times) more ice in the contrail than originally came out of the engine. I don’t know how much simpler I can make it.

            As you said “I asked for the source, I didn’t say I would read it”! That just shows that you are trolling and not interested in learning anything at all.

          • nomadfiles

            well, you could have said THE AUTHOR SAMPLED THE CONTRAIL. Come to think of it you did. Now where does the author say it consisted only of water. Could you quote that?

          • Thor

            I have mentioned it several times. Your not really open to new information so you blocked it out.

            It doesnt “disprove” spraying but it does prove that contrails are ice crystals….and that they can and often do persist.

          • Colophon

            Reading the source which YOU asked for is hardly a “wild goose chase”. You have already proved that you will ignore any and all science that explains what you see in the sky. You seem to think that you know better than all the tens of thousands of atmospheric scientists around the world who have somehow missed what you alone can spot.

          • nomadfiles

            i just asked you what the source was, didn’t say i was going to read it.
            no i don’t know better than tens of thousands of atmospheric scientists
            i am not an expert. i’ve directed you to people who deal with technical issues
            but also im not gullible.
            maybe true,maybe not. in the long run it doesnt matter because it does not disprove ongoing spraying as i have said several times.
            beat the dead horse if you like.

          • Thor

            “in all likelihood” ? on what basis can you possibly make that asinine claim?

            Contrails that persist, spread and cover the sky in haze of cirrus cloud are a proven fact. They have been observed ever since planes have flown high enough, they have been sampled in situ, replicated in labs, studied and observed on the ground. Literally studied for decades by 1000s of people around the World. They are a proven fact.

            For you to claim they are actually something else requires a suspension of belief of the physical reality of the known world….you know…fantasy.

            Is that you Russ Tanner?

          • Star Bricker

            I think so…

          • nomadfiles

            you’ve said that several times and several times i have said it doesnt matter

            how many times must i repeat it?

          • Thor

            so you admit that reality doesnt matter to you. Thanks for clarifying.

          • nomadfiles

            i admit that little bit of the puzzle that you seek to magnify does not preclude spraying

          • Colophon

            Well it does show that anything sprayed from a plane can’t appear anything like as big as a contrail. And it does show that the only thing that can expand and form a cloud that persists and grows is water.

            Once you account for that, the chemtrail theory is basically dead in the water.

          • nomadfiles

            give me a quote ‘the only thing that can expand and form a cloud that persists and grows is water.’

          • Colophon

            Can you think of any other substance that is found abundantly in an invisible vapour form in the atmosphere but which can crystallise out to form clouds that persist at equilibrium in the atmosphere? On Earth, water is the only substance that fits the bill.

          • nomadfiles

            your word means nothing. give me a quote

          • nomadfiles

            ‘Well it does show that anything sprayed from a plane can’t appear anything like as big as a contrail. ‘
            where does it show that

          • Colophon

            Where it shows that a contrail is thousands of times bigger and heavier than anything that could be contained within, or sprayed from, the plane!

            The only thing that even slightly rivals the size of a persistent contrail is a fire retardant dump from a firefighting tanker, and bag lasts for just a few seconds, because all the mass comes out in one huge dump. And it rapidly falls to Earth, onto the fire, rather than hanging around in the sky.

          • Star Bricker

            Can you think of how something 1 part to 10,000 parts water as ice, falling from flight altitude is going to be able to accomplish what you claim? Because that is what you are doing. Dilution is a powerful factor at play here, and you are ignoring it completely. That 1:10,000 is then diluted by air currents within the enormity of the atmosphere.
            Explain, in terms that can be verified, how something that dilute is efficient and/or precise enough to do anything. The math that proves a plane cannot spray an entire trail is available in the posts above.

          • nomadfiles

            maybe true, maybe not, see my other comments

      • Thor

        WHat?? Why should he site a source for this claim when you refuse to the do the same for your claim that contrails persist “very, very rarely”. The essence of hypocrisy and blind zealotry. wtf?

        • nomadfiles

          yes yes. whats your point?

          • Thor

            my point is you are clueless and should be allowed access to a computer.

          • nomadfiles

            why thank you. dont descend too far into ad homs, homes

          • Thor

            not an insult just a fact.

          • nomadfiles

            clearly you dont know the difference

          • Thor

            your cluelessness is your cross to bear not mine.

          • nomadfiles

            you have your own crosses to bear

    • nomadfiles

      “However, you can trigger a phase change of water vapour that is already in the air”
      So you think these geoengineers can not devise chemical formulas to do exactly that?

      (3/17/15)
      They’re baaacccck. Heavy chemtrailing.
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_072946.jpg?w=300&h=169
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_072936.jpg?w=300&h=169

      Boom! In the time it took to write this, no more than half an hour, probably closer to 15 minutes, those trails have effervesced into clouds. WTF? Can cloud cover be generated so quickly? 7:45 AM.
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_075014.jpg?w=300&h=169
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_075021.jpg?w=300&h=169

      Obviously. Look at the cloud cover an hour later.
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_084851.jpg?w=300&h=169
      https://aislec.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/win_20150317_084857.jpg?w=300&h=169

      Soooo…. The weather engineers can create cloud cover in about an hour. And voila! We are overcast again!

      • Colophon

        Yes, of course cloud cover can be generated that quickly. Why do you think people are trying to come up with methods to suppress contrail formation? Precisely BECAUSE one plane can create a very large area of cloud!

        Nobody wants to do this, it is entirely the opposite of what climate scientists are trying to do! Cirrus cloud has a positive net radiative forcing effect, so creating it inadvertently is bad news.

        Rather than banging on about “deliberate spraying” why can’t you accept that contrails are an unfortunate side effect of air travel, and support moves to avoid ISSRs?

        • nomadfiles

          how do you know what climate scientists are trying to do? are you admitting geoengineering?

          • Colophon

            “How do I know what climate scientists are trying to do?” Because I pay attention to environmental science and anyone who knows about climate science knows that the reduction of global warming effects is a major goal.

            As regards contrails specifically, I am referring to the research done by Reading University into reducing the climate effect of air travel by avoiding ISSRs where persistent contrails form. Read Emma Irvine’s page about it here: http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/~gb902035/PDRA_Work.html

            As for “are you admitting geoengineering”, what is that supposed to mean? Geoengineering is a well established field of research. If you bothered to read up on it you would know that (a) it is only in the theoretical stages and (b) it’s goal would be to REDUCE global warming, ie the exact opposite of what contrail cirrus does.

            Is this how this is going to work? You ask for references, I provide them, you say you don’t believe them and then you post something unrelated? Because that’s not how debates work.

          • nomadfiles

            well thank you for that info. the only one debating is you. i’m discussing
            and asking a simple question.
            do you think geoengineering is going on? i don’t want to debate whether it is, i just want to know if you think its going on?

          • Colophon

            Assuming you mean atmospheric aerosol geoengineering (solar radiation management), I don’t just “think” it’s not going on, I know that it’s not going on. It would be impossible to do it on any kind of effective scale and not leave an easily identifiable signature.

            The only forms of geoengineering that are in any way beyond the theory stage are carbon capture (Carbon Dioxide Removal, CDR) methods but again, these have only been carried out on a very small scale. In the broadest definition, planting forests would count as CDR geoengineering.

          • nomadfiles

            and on

          • nomadfiles

            ‘ I know that it’s not going on’
            thats a lie. you couldn’t possibly know unless you were part of the operation. and even then you wouldnt admit it
            all you can do is what i am able to do; to observe and deduce from available information. its a secret program, and unless you are one of the insiders, you dont know.

          • Colophon

            We would know it was going on because solar radiation management would alter the optical depth of the stratosphere: that would be the entire goal. The volumes of sulfates being talked about would be on a par with those seen in the upper atmosphere after massive volcanic eruptions such as Pinatubo. The fact that we see no such increase in optical depth from any observatory in the world is prima facie evidence that no such spraying is taking place.

            You can’t spray stuff to block solar radiation without, you know, blocking solar radiation. It would be impossible to hide.

          • nomadfiles

            All of that is deduction, just as I said. You know that theyre not spraying the same way I know they are. You do like pointless arguments dont you?

          • Colophon

            You really think that Cold War tests like these are in any way comparable to a daily, global spraying programme from tens of thousands of aircraft? You are utterly deluded. I might as well say that “people have committed murder in the past, therefore Nomad must be murdering people every night”. Makes sense right? Unless there is a body, don’t accuse people of murder. Unless there is evidence that stuff is being sprayed, don’t make up nonsense about chemtrails.

          • nomadfiles

            “You really think that Cold War tests like these are in any way comparable to a daily, global spraying programme from tens of thousands of aircraft? ”

            Absolutely!
            Like I say, you really like these pointless arguments. The fact is you don’t know. And evidently you don’t know that you don’t know. That makes yours a very special kind of delusion. Why you persist in the most transparent kind of sophistry I have no idea.

          • Thor

            quit lying. Your not discussing. Your playing games. make claims without sources. and then demanding others provide sources and then Ignoring the sources that are provided.

            I just you look up the term cognitive dissonance.

          • nomadfiles

            sure
            rant on

      • Colophon

        And, incidentally, this afternoon in southern England the RH at 300hPa is less than 10%, and we have deep blue sky, scattered cumulus and planes are not even forming short contrails. It’s as simple as that. If they were “chemtrails” (ie some material being sprayed) then they would form all the time, they wouldn’t be dependent on the ambient humidity.

        RH chart and photo below:

        http://imgur.com/vLC5oIP
        http://imgur.com/E0U39ms

        • nomadfiles

          so say you

  • nomadfiles

    Chemtrails: Experimenting on the Public
    Five examples.
    Government to US public: “Let us spray”

    https://youtu.be/zyqd572f-3I

    • Carl Herman

      Thanks, nomadfiles; I’ll add this video to the article.

  • Thor

    Carl, you need to change the title of this article. The video was proven to be a fraud and it does NOT show “chemtrail” emissions and DOES NOT refute all arguments.

    Letting the title stand shows a lack of journalistic integrity.

    • nomadfiles

      still trying to control the narrative
      give it a rest

      • Thor

        He rightfully changed it because what I said was accurate. Let the facts control the narrative.

        • nomadfiles

          That’s unfortunate because it is otherwise an informative video.

          • Thor

            “more accurate images” Got any? LOL

            And if pointing out errors of fact is “disruption” then you have bigger problems than “chemtrails”

          • nomadfiles

            there are no bigger problems than the weather warfare and terraforming of the american mind of which chemtrails is a significant feature

          • Thor

            All the images I have seen have proven to be for things other than “chemtrails”. If you can present images of planes, equipment, “nozzles” etc whose actual purpose has not already been determined to have nothing to do with “chemtrails”, please present them.

            Obviously, you are referring to yourself when speaking of a bombardment of pointless comments.

          • nomadfiles

            nope. i am referring to you

          • Thor

            Sorry- everyone knows showing pictures of contrails isnt “evidence” .

            If you can present images of planes, equipment, “nozzles” etc whose
            actual purpose has not already been determined to have nothing to do
            with “chemtrails”, please present them. If cant then one can only assume this evidence doesnt exist.

            “editor’s error” LOL. It was deliberate disinformation. Propaganda designed to further the narrative. You know this.

          • nomadfiles

            “Sorry- everyone knows showing pictures of contrails isnt “evidence” .”
            dont be sorry because yes it is.
            if it was deliberate it was designed to do just what it did. fuel for sophists like you

            The mechanism of spray delivery, for whatever reason, turns out to be false. I will leave it to those interested to ferret out the details. I haven’t delved too deeply into the issue because the shortcoming does not disprove the primary thesis: that planes are spraying the sky with aerosols. It would be good to know in specific detail how this is done. But not necessary. There are other aspects of chemtrails that let us know that this is deliberate spraying. For example, the US military has a history of doing this.

            https://youtu.be/zyqd572f-3I

            And, quite simply, the patterns of spray themselves. I have seen days where dozens, perhaps in excess of a hundred, trails have crisscrossed the sky. There is no way in the world that there is that much air traffic in this area, especially with trails branching out in all directions. If this were a high traffic flight path these planes would all be going in the same direction, basically east/west with few transverses. The fact that they crisscrossed in every direction indicates that this was not typical air traffic but an aerial operation. This is common sense. And it is where any exploration of chemtrails begins

          • Carl Herman

            Exactly, nomadfiles. I’ve noticed the same patterns.

          • Thor

            sorry- none of those incidents are truly comparable to supposed chemtrails in any way. being dispersed from ships, all local, low level dispersion, didnt leave persistent, visible trails etc…its really grasping at straws to suggest those incidents bear evidence to support confusing contrails for “chemtrails”.

            As for patterns in the sky?? There are over 40,000 flight EVERYDAY in the US. Why would contrails NOT look like a criss crossed pattern? Watch a days worth of flights- see any criss- cross patterns? what if all those planes left contrails- what would it look like?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ystkKXzt9Wk

            Where are you approximately? I am sure a quick look at a flight tracker would reveal a lot more planes over your head than you realize:

            https://flightaware.com/live/

          • nomadfiles

            yes, but thats the whole country. locally the paths would generally favor the most used flight paths which in this case, heartland, would be east/west. which is generally what i see with individual trails when there is no tictactoe lattice work.

            and if these hundreds of planes are constantly flying overhead as you say (obviously unnoticed because they leave no trails) why is it that on most days only a few of these planes leave trails? shouldn’t the other hundred planes of normal traffic be leaving trails also? on the days when one plane leaves a trail, there should be hundreds.

          • Thor

            Where are you located? We can determine exactly how many planes fly over you.

            Heartland? Do planes from MPLS to DFW fly east to west? LA – Detroit? Winnipeg- Chicago? Denver- Calgary? Look at the current flights over the US:
            https://flightaware.com/live/

            thousands of flights in all directions

            Lots of long distance flights use the great circle route flying over the pole to points in Europe and Asia

            Is the atmosphere static? uniform? or can conditions change from spot to spot and altitude to altitude? Are all planes at the same at altitude?

            Not all planes leave trails for the same reason the entire sky is not
            filled with clouds all the time. why do clouds have gaps? why is there a cloud in one spot but not another? Its that simple. Will you reject this
            or admit you havent thought it thru.

          • nomadfiles

            i admit that you try to send me off on pointless tangents. that is your game. to draw out the discussion on insignificant issues. but that, sophist, is a double edged sword

          • Thor

            yes, after you make claims about the air traffic above you, me providing info and tools to understand the air traffic above you is a “pointless tangent” LOL. do you even hear yourself?

          • nomadfiles

            yes. do you?

          • Thor

            yes, I hear you. And its discouraging that your dialectic amounts to peddling falsehoods and ignoring any facts that are contrary to you narrative. Its a piss poor approach to the truth.

          • nomadfiles

            look whos talking

          • Thor

            Busted?? how so? Please point out any falsehood I have made. I am open to being wrong but you have to be able to prove it. Can you?

          • nomadfiles

            Chemtrails resume. Well, they probably never stopped. They’ve probably just been using the stealth approach. Lightly spraying while we weren’t looking. Because, I gotta tell you, though I haven’t seen any chemtrails lately, the sky has been awful pale. Paleness, of course, by my metrics, is primary evidence of aerosol spray, however it might have been delivered. Hey! Skeptics! How can you tell the controllers have been spraying? You don’t need to see chemtrails. That’s primary evidence. Even better evidence is to see the aerosol itself. That ubiquitous wispy film that veils the sky. Today, however, we have the return of classic form chemtrails, that let us know in no uncertain terms that we are being sprayed. It’s undeniable. Now, aren’t you just a little bit concerned?

          • Thor

            “It begins by recognizing that this could not possibly be normal air traffic.”

            no- not “normal” air traffic- but not “chemtrails”- It’s actually from a 2007 photo of contrails left during an exercise of the Chinese air force practicing high altitude dogfights between F-10 and SU-27 fighters.

            original image here:

            http://war.163.com/07/1225/08/40I0FABE00011MTO.html

            translation and similar images here:

            https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-the-these-are-chemtrails-you-stupid-zombies-image.t2861/

          • nomadfiles

            yeah, that explains why its so atypical.
            and that’s all it explains

          • Thor

            sure – that specific photo of circular contrails is atypical- but they are still just contrails….and the VAST MAJORITY of supposed “chemtrails” are of straight line trails…so, that photo is “atypical” of even supposed “chemtrail” photos LOL.

          • nomadfiles

            yes. thats what i said

          • Thor

            you said your claim of chemtrails was false? I missed that.

          • nomadfiles

            you miss a lot

          • Thor

            “yeah, that explains why its so atypical.and that’s all it explains”

            well, either the Chinese military is spraying “chemtrails” while training for dog fights…or its just contrails. Which is more likely?

          • nomadfiles

            why you asking me? youre the expert

          • Thor

            “if the erroneous images were deliberate it was designed to do just what it did. fuel for sophists like you”

            No. It was designed to trick people into Believing chemtrails and its seems to be working on you. LOL

          • nomadfiles

            Here is the way images can be used to determine if trails in the sky are chem or con. One could probably do this without the proposed app, but that would make it much easier; and someone should fund a project like this. Basically take pictures of the trails and correlate them with atmospheric data to determine if conditions exist at that time for persistent contrails. If they don’t then the trails must be accounted for by other causes.
            https://youtu.be/WMwjtY5pCIg?t=2m38s

            This way you want have to chase that unicorn of images of the apparatus of delivery. Notice what the narrator says at 2:40 about the conditions in which persistent contrails form. Time for a little more common sense. Are we to believe these conditions are present virtually every day?

          • Carl Herman

            Because we have untrustworthy government, we won’t have such data from them. This could also be connected to data of the EXPLOSION of these trails in our skies. The TREMENDOUS increase of these, along with patterns they create, along with apparent non-usual flight paths, CANNOT BE ACCOUNTED FOR by the explanation of “just contrails.”

          • Thor

            Conditions for contrail formation and persistence are certainly present every single day *somewhere*. There have been a lot of research on contrail frequency and on the ice supersaturated regions that promote contrail growth:

            http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1256/qj.02.141/pdf

            He only mentions a vague description of the conditions. Typically, it has to be about -40 below for a contrail to form. (studies have shown high bypass engines creating trails at slightly higher temps) and about 70% relative humidity with respect to ice (different than normal RH as cold air holds much less water and thus gets saturated easier). Unfortunately, its not that easy as radiosonde data (weather balloons) are spaced 12hrs apart and 100s of miles apart…and the instruments are highly inaccurate at reading humidity in very cold conditions.

            NASA does put out a contrail forecast:

            http://cloudsgate2.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/site/showdoc?docid=33&cmd=latest

            In the N hempisphere- contrails are somewhat seasonal with their frequency much greater in Winter…and often in advance of weather fronts as moist air gets pushed ahead of storms in the upper levels of the atmosphere.

            However, if the conspiracy was as the peddlers claim- Global, daily, 1000s of planes etc..over almost 20yrs…its seems highly unlikely that there would be some actual evidence and not just people pointing at contrails claiming they are something else.

            I suggest Believers just hire a plane to go sample a trail or 10 of their choice- this company has the properly equipped planes for hire:

            http://www.weathermodification.com/aircraft.php

          • nomadfiles

            I’ve already posted a much easier way accomplishing the same thing

          • Thor

            I explained why that method has it shortcomings…this method could not fail.

          • nomadfiles

            then you should it

          • Thor

            “otherwise an informative video” Right, a video whose every image is a deception by the author of the video and laced with the comments of a proven liar (WIggyton) and a man whose “science” paper was rejected for poor science. Thats a logical statement on your part LOL. very informative.

            Griffith claims its commercial airlines and yet not coming from the engine…and as he says that they show a clip of a fuel dump. Cannot you not see the propaganda at hand?

            …and yet Griffith must be wrong because all the “chemtrail” videos show the “chemtrails” coming from the engine. You people cannot even get your story straight.

          • nomadfiles

            nope. its you who cant get ‘my peoples’ story straight, as you just proved by twisting what I said and assuming that by this you have disproved spraying. you have not. all you have proved is that someone made a mistake in selection of images. which is unfortunate because the narrative is informative.

            now, am i going to have to repeat that in a different way several more times? that’s what i mean by pointless. you take my original statement, twist it and add strawman arguments that in the final analysis dont really address it. which makes me have to repeat the original statement. pointless.

            i can only assume your goal is to sabotage the post by flooding it with with pointless commentary

          • Thor

            as long as you keep posting BS I will be here.

            ” the narrative is informative.” Right…Dane claiming the images in question “prove irrefutably” that chemtrails are real….hes either lying or fooled just like you. You have griffith claiming the trails are coming from commercial planes but not from the engines…despite every video or photo of “chemtrails” from commercial planes coming from engines…

            very informative LOL.

      • Colophon

        Carl Herman is actually showing integrity by allowing facts to be represented. A refreshing change from most chemtrail believers, such as yourself, who seek to censor and hide the truth at every turn.

        • nomadfiles

          youre through buddy

  • nomadfiles

    Again for Colophon/Thor who harangued me for saying that the formation of lingering contrails should be a rare occurrence. I know I had run across such statements on the internet in the past but had not the time to search out the reference at that time. However, today I searched and found an excellent confirmation of what I said at http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/dismantling-the-lie-of-contrails/#more-21753. This was, BTW, one of the sources I advised Colophon and Thor to check out for themselves. Anyway, Dane Wigington has an excellent post on this subject. It’s short so I am posting it in its entirety. In case Colophon/Thor have trepidation about visiting Dane’s site.

    ‘Those in power have done their absolute best to convince an all too gullible public that our constantly hazed out skies are just the result of “contrails”, this is an absolute lie. All those that are funded by the power structure in one form or another tow the line on this lie as their paychecks and pensions depend on their participation. The list of those who are lying about the issue of “contrails” is incredibly long. It includes (but is not limited to) elected officials, government agencies (including state agencies), meteorologists, journalists and media sources, etc. With very few exceptions, we should not see ANYTHING behind the jets in our skies that are fitted with high bypass turbofan jet engines. High Bypass turbofan jet engines are fitted on ALL COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT and ALL MILITARY TANKERS. High bypass jet engines are nearly incapable of producing a “condensation trail” except for the most extreme conditions and even then any visible trail should not be more than a few seconds at most. Even many actively engaged in the fight to expose and stop the ongoing climate engineering insanity do not yet understand this fact. Shorter bright trails are in most cases still SPRAYED HIGHLY TOXIC DISPERSIONS. Those who truly want to be effective in the battle to expose the geoengineering crimes should take the time to watch the video below, perhaps twice. More than any other issue, our collective futures depend on exposing and stopping the spraying. Do your part, get educated and become a more effective fighter in this most critical battle.’

    Dane Wigington

    geoengineeringwatch.org

    https://youtu.be/0wBSpAwhPuE

    • Thor

      Sorry- quoting Wiggyton is not a credible source. What is his expertise on atmospheric science? what is knowledge of the physics involved? Can HE back up his claim with ANY scientific research or any thing other than his words?? Why does his claim contradict the historical and scientific record? Sorry…its an empty claim backed by NOTHING. He has made numerous claims that have been proven to be false so why you think thats a credible source is beyond me.

      In the video was ridiculous- it has to be about -40!! for contrails to form- the vid starts with a guy claim trails arent forming at -10 (C)- but one can clealry see condensation emanating from the furnace…sorry…thats just really ridiculous….can you point out where in the video they mention the water created by combustion? Do they explain where it goes? Nope. Because it still get ejected into the cold atmosphere in the exhaust- Cant just wave away proven physics LOL.

      Here is research that utterly contradicts Dane’s and that videos claim- please point out the errors. What do you make of the picture on page 399?? Please explain:

      http://elib.dlr.de/9247/1/aerscitech-2000.pdf

      • nomadfiles

        Dane Wigington is muchmuchmuchmuchmuch more credible than you.
        As I have said before, I’ve explained about all I am going to explain to you. If in the hundreds of comments we have exchanged we have not reconciled our differences I think it is safe to say we are at an impasse.

        • Thor

          As I mentioned, I dont need credibility. I have facts. Not just claims- which is all you and Wiggy have. You can provide no evidence to back up your claims. Its just empty talk.

          • nomadfiles

            its a good thing too. youre making a valiant effort at convincing people that there is serious debate about whether were being sprayed. thats just to sidetrack the discussion and prevent people from getting to the point where they can ask, ‘with what are we being sprayed and how is it affecting me?’ so im just bypassing the smokescreen and rigmarole and asking it any way. i have provided all the proofs i intend to and if thats not satisfactory i suggest you take your quest to someone who takes you seriously. because i dont.

          • Thor

            “i have provided all the proofs i intend to”

            So, you mean…none.

            You have provided nothing but pictures of contrails and claims long ago debunked.

            You realize this so you want to pretend the issue is settled when from a rational, objective perspective its clearly not.

          • nomadfiles

            bypassing the smokescreen

    • Colophon

      Dane Wigington has no qualifications in atmospheric science, and makes bald statements with no evidence or numbers to back them up. Actual scientists who study long-lived contrails find that they are not rare at all. This paper from as long ago as 2008 found that 2.4 billion kilometres of persistent contrails were formed annually, out of a total of 33 billion kilometres flown: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2007JD009117/full (paragraph 15). That is about 7.2% of ALL airliner flight produces persistent contrails. The peak frequency is more than double that, at about 15% of all flight at an altitude of 9km.

      • nomadfiles

        you have been busted

        • Colophon

          Going to actually challenge the facts, or just pout and posture?

          • nomadfiles

            lol

          • Thor

            Nomad doest work with facts…it prefers to wave facts away in favor of fear, ignorance and speculation. That is essentially the “chemtrail” theory in a nutshell.

          • nomadfiles

            March 16, 2016
            Here is an interesting chemtrail formation. And “formation” is indeed the operative word.

            I noticed that these two parallel trails terminated at exactly the same point in the sky (just outside the top of the picture frame in the right photo) and are at identical stages of dispersion. The fact that they terminate at all is evidence that these are sprayed aerosols under controlled release. But also, because they are identical, this means that the planes that left these trails were flying side by side. Something no commercial airliner is likely to do. The fact that they flew in formation means that these were military aircraft. Probably two of those C-17s that rumbled low over my house last spring. Those trails are a clue to who’s spraying us.

          • Thor

            more lies. If it has to be -40 for a contrail to form…what happens to a contrail when a contrail forming plane flies into warmer air? this is where simple common sense comes into play…

            why do these contrails from 1945 stop suddenly?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOrez6q7WM

          • nomadfiles

            US science advisor and psychopath John Holdren insists that releasing particulates of barium, magnesium, aluminum nanofibers, mould and bacillus blood spores is a great idea. After all, what are chemtrails but a global extension of biological and chemical warfare (BW/CW) field experiments that have been going on for decades?”

            An entire industry, a very profitable industry, has grown exponentially around the Shock Doctrine, exposed by Naomi Klein in her 2007 book: The Shock Doctrine: The rise of Disaster Capitalism. Governments have become partners with corporate industry to create disasters as well as run biological, chemical and electromagnetic experiments that produce high levels of casualties – human, animal and plant life. Environmental destruction is considered, if at all, collateral damage. Often these experiments, called by the military ‘war games’, are quite blatant. For example, the US Navy quietly announced they would be using the Olympic Peninsula National park in Washington state for EMF electromagnetic pulse weapons testing. They admitted that there would be some danger to wildlife and even humans. They also stated they’d be flying Growler jets, the loudest, most obtrusive jets in their fleet, to do the weapons firing. Dahr Jamail, a famous journalist, happens to live nearby and exposed their project. To no avail. (Jamail) Not only is the Olympic Peninsula, a World Heritage site, being targeted, but the Navy also admitted they would be using the ocean all along the US west coast for EMF weapons testing. Whales be damned. (Wigington)

          • Thor

            Quoting Wiggy is like quoting Don Quioxte LOL

          • nomadfiles

            see what i mean by insouciant

          • Thor

            no.

          • nomadfiles

            On Monday, September 21st, directly over Reedsport, my town, there was a little square cloud that had been placed there from a storm system up in Idaho. Despite offshore winds and the usual breeze along the Umpqua River valley, that square cloud stayed in place all day like a message seeking recognition.

            The next day, Tuesday, September 22nd, over Coos Bay (about 30 miles south of Reedsport) the big tanker jets sprayed full bore soaking the area in lithium haze and some sort of psychoactive compound. Let me explain that I had considered this kind of action to be nearly impossible because of the terrain of the Coos Bay area. Unlike the Reedsport area tightly surrounded by fjord-like hills, Coos Bay is wide open with vast bays and rivers and the ocean to the west, and always strong offshore winds every afternoon. Yet, here was an obvious haze application directly and very low over the entire area and it was holding in place. People began experiencing vicious and intense symptoms.

            Lithium haze held in place by fine lines over Coos Bay, Oregon

            9/22/15 Tuesday afternoon Lithium haze held in place by fine lines over Coos Bay, Oregon

            NOAA National Weather Service

            http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/index.php?wfo=mfr

            The radar image shows exactly the same technique as was used over the fire zone in northern California. I sent the radar images and my queries to Elana Freeland who theorized that the multiple fine chemtrail lines of aluminum or some other conductive metal lacing the lithium haze were interacting with the lithium so that the haze blob could be held in place, and tracked. By that evening, I was receiving FB messages from Eugene, Portland and Vancouver, BC of a range of symptoms: severe chest congestion, coughing, sinus pain, headaches, extreme muscle pain, lethargy. Reports were also coming in of crazy behavior and wild driving. Note: The Register Guard newspaper of Eugene, Oregon, which is in the central valley, reported on September 1st, in stark headlines: “It’s Been One Deadly Summer”. In the three months of summer, 2015, twelve homicides/suicides occurred as compared to an average ofThree A Year. (Gorrow) All September, I had reports of horrific HAZE and chemtrail spraying over the central valley of Oregon, plus HAARP frequencies so intense reports flooded in from people experiencing extremely painful tinnitus and earache.

          • nomadfiles

            Symptoms Of Lithium Exposure

            First and foremost, lithium is an FDA Pregnancy Category D drug which means, even in very small doses, it causes birth defects, most especially of the heart. Lithium also passes through breast milk and will harm the baby. Although the many websites which list the uses and warnings of lithium as a drug often divide the symptoms intoCommon Side Effectsand Dangerous Side Effects, these effects are only gradations. The toxic dosage is small and each person is affected differently. For some individuals, even the smallest dose of lithium as a drug can be highly debilitating and some people react allergically. There is No Antidote for Lithium Overdose or Allergic Reaction.

            Here are all the Side Effects Listed At Once

            First and foremost – Lethargy. You feel heavy and drugged;

            Thirst. You can become quickly dehydrated especially if overheated. You crave salt;

            Stomach Distress including both diarrhea and constipation;

            Sudden Weight Gain;

            Muscle/Joint Pain;

            Twitching of hands and head, sometimes of the whole body;

            Loss of Appetite. You can’t taste your food;

            Slurred Speech and Blurred Vision;

            Confusion/ Hallucinations;

            ‘Imitation’ Goiter. Looks like thyroid malfunction but isn’t;

            Impotence;

            Endocrine Disruption Causing Severe Menses/Periods. Stomach swells up as if you’re pregnant;

            Kidney Pain as the renal glands become dysfunctional;

            Acne/ Severe Skin Rashes and Sun Burn;

            Hair Loss.

            Here are just two links to the symptoms of Lithium as a drug. There are many, many more.

            http://www.everydayhealth.com

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

            Original article by Ann Fillmore PhD(more info)

            listed in environmental, originally published in issue 228 – February 2016

            References / Bibliography

            Berger, Noah. ‘Unheard of Fire Behavior’ Devastates West, Entire Towns Gone. Reuters. 14 September 15.

            http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/32387-unheard-of-fire-behavior-devastates-west-entire-towns-gone

            Fassa, Paul. Royal Rife: Cancer Cure Genius Silenced by Medical Mafia. Natural News. 26 September 2009.www.naturalnews.com/027104_cancer_WHO_Chi.html#

            Freeland, Elana. Chemtrails, Haarp, and the Full Spectrum Dominance of Planet Earth. Feral House, Pt Townsend, WA. 2014.

            Gorrow, Chelsea. “It’s Been One Deadly Summer”, The Register Guard, Eugene Oregon, Tuesday, 9/1/15.

            Haltiwanger Steve MD, CCN. The issue of the use of electrotherapy for blood electrification and disease treatment. Rife Research, Europe 2015. http://www.rife.de/use-of-electrotherapy-for-disease-treatment-.html

            Jamail, Dahr. US Navy Allegedly Broke Federal Laws to Push Forward Electromagnetic War Training Over National Forests. 10/26/15. http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33387-us-navy-allegedly-broke-federal-laws-to-push-forward-electromagnetic-war-training-over-national-forests

            Jamail, Dahr. Navy Plans Electromagnetic War Games Over National Park and Forest in Washington State. 11/10/14. http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27339-navy-plans-electromagnetic-war-games-over-national-park-and-forest-in-washington-state

            Klein, Naomi. The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Metropolitan Books, Holt and Co. NY, NY. 2007.

            Manzetti, Sergio and Olle Johansson. Global electromagnetic toxicity and frequency-induced diseases: Theory and short overview. Pathophysiology. 19 April 2014.www.pathophysiologyjournal.com/article/S0928-4680(12)00064-8/abstract

            Miller, Richard Alan and Iona Miller. Our Climate – Dead or Alive? Schumann’s Resonances and Vision 2020 Nexus Magazine Mar/Apr 2003. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_ondas_shumman_3.htm

            St.John, Paige, California Fires: Middletown suffers a devastating blow. LA Times. 9/13/15.

            http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-california-wildfires-middletown-suffers-a-devastating-blow-20150913-story.html

            Weil, Andrew, Dr. Rife Machines Don’t Work. 4/30/12.

            http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA401104/Ready-for-Rife.html

            Wigington, Dane and ZenGardner Catastrophic Pacific Ocean Die-Off: The U.S. Military’s Assault on Life. 11/29/15.www.zengardner.com/catastrophic-pacific-ocean-die-off-us-militarys-assault-life/

            Radar images via NOAA – National Weather Service, Medford, OR

            http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/index.php?wfo=mfr

            Interview with Ann Fillmore, PhD on Lithium Experiments Over Oregon

            https://soundcloud.com/groundzeromedia/a2015-10-09

            Audio version of the original report:

            http://www.rense.com/general96/toxlith.html

            Print version of online report:

            http://asheepnomore.net/2015/10/17/lithium-and-the-experiment-over-oregon/#arvlbdata

            Video summarizing Royal Rife’s work and especially his genius.

            MOR: Mortal Oscillatory Rate

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhpLCO57PY

            An excellent summary of how EMF and dirty electricity are affecting all life:

            Resonance – Beings of Frequency (PEMF documentary Film) ElectroMeds

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYav6_hcMDo

            Appendix: What Is Lithium? What Side Effects Does Lithium Have?

            Posted in Geo engineering & weather warfare, Geopolitics, HAARP, Health, New World Order

            http://juanmatus.com/aerosol-experiments-using-lithium-psychoactive-drugs-oregon/

          • nomadfiles

            You missed the point, contrail creep. Chemtrail or not these planes flew side by side. Meaning they were military.

          • Thor

            Military planes are not immune to physics. They too produce contrails. LOL

            but commercial planes can fly side by side too

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDYPLgewrMo

          • nomadfiles

            not that close together

          • Thor

            why cant military planes leave contrails?

          • nomadfiles

            How the Successful Experiments Are Being Expanded

            In September 2015, another step in this program of direct experimentation occurred. Up until then, as Lock explained, they had to manufacture a stagnant air inversion to pin the lithium and psychoactive materials directly onto one spot. In September, I noticed the new method of holding the lithium haze cloud in place first over the area in northern California where there were massive fires in the drought-ridden hills. At first I didn’t understand what I was seeing: hundreds of thin chemtrails throughout a lithium haze. Despite fairly high winds, the haze, with newly applied daily lines, stayed in one spot for days. Firefighters on scene were reporting the fires acting strangely, more dangerously erratic and explosive than they had ever witnessed before. (Berger, St.John) Not so coincidentally, when lithium in one of its chemical forms hits water it explodes.

            A square little cloud directly over Reedsport, OR.

            A square little cloud directly over Reedsport, OR. 9/21/15 Monday morning

            NOAA National Weather Service

            http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/index.php?wfo=mfr

    • Thor

      “the formation of lingering contrails should be a rare occurrence”

      I am very curious about this. Can you provide ANY documentation for this claim- other than Dane saying it it so? Can you provide ANY scientific reasoning? Any studies of contrails or of the atmosphere that support this claim?

      In my curiosity, I wanted to see if this was true but could not find any supporting evidence. Please explain.

      • nomadfiles

        you’re not curious. otherwise youd go to the sources mentioned

      • nomadfiles

        youre not curious. youre insouciant disingenuous and sophistic

      • nomadfiles

        you are not curious. you are insouciant disingenuous and sophistic.
        and i don’t take you seriously.
        that’s why i’m not answering.

      • nomadfiles

        again my reply disappears.
        youre not curious. youre insouciant disingenuous and sophistic. i dont think i am breaking any rules by saying so.

      • nomadfiles

        chuckle. i kept posting that reply and it kept disappearing.
        well
        bears repeating

  • nomadfiles

    ‘we don’t know what we’re being sprayed with.’
    That is the overlooked phrase from the previous article that was drowned in a sea of questions about technical aspects of the issue: how contrails form, possible means of dispensation of aerosols, measurements and formulas, etc. That’s fine. That’s academic. Academic arguments have their place. But it should not be used to squash discussion. Some, like Dane said, can never be convinced that they are being sprayed, so its best to simply move on. The discussion must advance beyond whether we are being sprayed or not. As far as I’m concerned that has been resolved. We need to discuss what we are being sprayed with. That subject is of special interest to me.

    • Thor

      “The discussion must advance beyond whether we are being sprayed or not. As far as I’m concerned that has been resolved”

      On what do you base this Belief on? every piece of supposed evidence has proven to NOT be actual evidence. You want the discussion to move on so you can ignore this fact. But a rational, objective review of the facts clearly shows your desire to be premature at best and disingenuous at worst.

      • nomadfiles

        ho hum. weve already done that. to death. now im addressing the question of what we are being sprayed with. i know you dont think we are being sprayed. this is for those that dont share your conviction.

        • Thor

          why. Every claim of evidence you offer up ISNT evidence. Logic would suggest you provide actual evidence of your claims before moving on to other unubstantiated claims LOL.

          • nomadfiles

            weve done that elsewhere and youre free to rehash that discussion. elsewhere. this thread is about what we are being sprayed with.

          • Thor

            Nope. You have NOT provided ANY evidence. Your blind zealotry precludes you from understanding this apparently.

            This thread is about ‘chemtrails’ and the lack of evidence to support their existence and the disingenuous propaganda methods used to deceive the Believers.

          • nomadfiles

            nope. this thread is about what we are being sprayed with. i’ve discussed your other issues elsewhere. for further discussion of whether or not we are being sprayed, a valuable subject for you, i refer you to does other threads.

            the only thing i am addressing on this thread is the primary issue you are trying to obfuscate which is

            what we’re being sprayed with.

          • Thor

            No- the thread- as per the title- is about supposed evidence of ‘chemtrails’ …of which you have provided none.

            Have you considered that they are spraying you with Dihydrogen monoxide?

          • nomadfiles

            that’s the post theme, genius. this is a comment thread.
            we dont know what theyre spraying us with

          • Thor

            Have you considered it? You might want to look into it. Dangerous stuff.

          • nomadfiles

            now you get the idea. tell me more

          • Thor

            Dihydrogen monoxide – dangerous stuff – look it up.

          • nomadfiles

            March 15, 2016

            Back to the usual pattern. Chemtrails in the morning, yesterday and today. We’re supposed to believe these clouds are not what they look like. Sprayed aerosols. 10:00 AM.

            Typical of that pattern, extensive chemtrailing has ceased by midday. The sky is clear at 5:00 PM. Actually, it’s covered by a thin even film that makes the sky pale blue. An occasional high flyer with a short (short lasting) trail can be seen. It is as if morning is the time to pump up the volume of aerosols in the atmosphere with numerous chemtrails. Once a certain degree of saturation is achieved, around midday, the chemtrailing stops except for short bursts to help maintain the aerosol plasma. Touching up or topping off. Replenishing.

          • Thor

            “aerosol plasma” LOL

          • nomadfiles

            “I can’t imagine stratospheric aerosols ever being deployed…You can’t test it unless you basically do full-scale deployments…I just can’t see the world standing for that. You would have to notify everybody that might be affected – informed consent over the entire planet – and you’d have to do an Environmental Impact Statement and I can’t imagine everybody in the world agreeing to those changes…”

            Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor of Climatology, Rutgers University, 2012

            But full deployment has been achieved. It is not being done in secret. You only have to look up at the sky to see it. All over the world. It is simply being done without your permission. Testing the results of this poisonous aerosol spraying has become the purview of thousands of scientists who find themselves co-opted into programs with super security coverage. All of a sudden an ecologist who had been hired to collect samples in riverways for effluvia is assigned to sample for aluminum, barium, lithium and mercury and the test results are instantly classified as secret.

          • Thor

            “But full deployment has been achieved” LOL

            right- a global, clandestine, “spray” campaign over 15yrs without a shred of evidence. Seems likely.

            Only 2 problems. Looking up and seeing the well known, long observed scientific fact of contrails and claiming they are something else requires evidence.

            …and planes could not carry enough “spray” to create the 100s of miles long trails we see in the sky. This very fact debunks the whole “theory” LOL

          • nomadfiles

            see what i mean about insou… untroubled?

          • Thor

            Me? You take this comment as a fact. Arent you curious to know if its true? Arent you curious to know where this claim came from and if the FACTS actually back up the claim? You take everything Dane says as fact at your own peril.

            “All of a sudden an ecologist who had been hired to collect samples in
            riverways for effluvia is assigned to sample for aluminum, barium,
            lithium and mercury and the test results are instantly classified as
            secret.”

            thats just a claim. claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

          • nomadfiles

            The Whistleblower

            In direct response to these posts, the first letter from the whistle blower arrived by post on January 30, 2015. At first I thought it was another letter of complaint from someone who thought I had the solution to the horrors of geoengineering. Instead, the letter was the real thing. For six months, I respected the danger this person, who uses the pseudonym Locke, was putting himself in and I was very discreet about who saw the letter. And I was very discreet in putting messages on the FB sites to confirm to Locke that I was working on his message. I used the letter as a teaching tool and it was very effective. Either readers were completely convinced of what is happening in Oregon or they went into horrified denial. The Geoengineering activists to whom I sent the letter almost always dismissed it, ignored it or immediately responded that they couldn’t do anything about it. This was very disappointing until I realized that the atrocity of geoengineering, and these experiments, is on such a vast scale that each of us is struggling to fight in our own corner with very little mutual support.

            That being said, I finally sent the letter to Elana Freeland. She pointed out that despite Locke’s fears for his family, he was desperate to get the information out to the media, social media and beyond. A second letter surfaced, which I will quote from. It was received by HH in Medford, Oregon around the first of March. In it, Locke expressed his disappointment that the activists he had contacted never responded. Having had essentially the same non-response, I understood his frustration.

            His letters contain some private information and I will keep that private. But we can deduce from his excellent use of English and from his job description that he is well educated in a science field, probably a DSc or PhD, is most likely in his late 30s or early 40s and is equally at home outdoors as in a lab. His use of the name Locke indicates he knows American history. The original John Locke of the mid 1700s created the concept of the social contract and whole portions of his writings were copied into the US Constitution. Our Locke lives in central Oregon but travels the state extensively. He enjoyed his profession until he was put under a security classification without his consent.

            short, fast dispersing, non persistent trails

            Lithium spraying planes often leave what are called short, fast dispersing, non persistent trails. They resemble the old, now non-existent ‘con’ trails. These short trails spread widely into a murky haze that fills the entire sky.

            Photo taken by Mark Devlin, Oregon, on 11/27/15

            Excerpt from Locke’s first letter:

            “For example, I could have warned thousands of people of the ongoing (as of January, 2015) spraying to manufacture air stagnation in the Rogue and Umpqua (river) Valleys, as well as much of the Oregon Coast south of Florence. The artificially induced period of air stagnation is part of a larger experiment testing the efficacy of psychoactive chemical dispersal from high altitudes. Currently, spraying is most intense along the coast itself and above inland valleys. The stagnant air currents in the region allow for more direct application of psychoactive agents to test populations. I have little formal contact with the chemistry department, but to my knowledge, Lithium is the primary substance being dispersed in the aforementioned experiment. Given the psychoactive/social nature of the ongoing tests, my department is playing a secondary role collecting water and soil samples. The Sociological Research Division however, has operatives throughout the region gathering a massive amount of data regarding the test population’s behavioral traits, like consumer habits, political engagement levels, and awareness of geoengineering programs. I would urge you to inform your friends and peers of this fact, as avoiding observation by refusing to take surveys and engaging in similar actions that can disrupt this sordid research.”

          • nomadfiles

            “…and planes could not carry enough “spray” to create the 100s of miles long trails we see in the sky. ”

            Not so sez this guy:
            https://youtu.be/sFr-I-e9i5I

          • nomadfiles

            What I find remarkable is that, as a citizen blogger who has apparently taken upon himself the task of correcting erroneous observations and science on the chemtrail phenomenon, you are so certain that the handful of sources you use have the correct picture of the story. All arguments to the contrary, no matter how well researched are, by virtue of the fact that they confirm aerosol spraying programs. You are so insouciant and apparently unaware of that government disinfo is being widely disseminated online arguing exactly the contrail thesis you propose. Yet you don’t question the veracity of these rather counter-intuitive arguments. Like the one about modern aircraft engines designed in such a way as to increase the contrail output. That just defies credibility. That’s what you was have us believe you believe. I don’t think you believe that. Because you would have to be pretty stupid to believe what you purport to believe in complete denial of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You would have to be some kind of idiot.

          • Thor

            Its more than a “handful” of sources. Its the collective scientific research of global scientists spanning decades. Its a body of work that has been peer-reviewed by 1000s of scientists around the World and replicated and proven to be fact. You do not seem to understand what a proven fact is and that prevents you from actually moving forward in the discussion.

            Moreover, its verifiable fact. Anyone can prove to themselves what happens to the water vapor ejected into a very cold environment. Anyone can see for themselves that clouds persist. Anyone can prove themselves that burning fuel creates water as a by product. Anyone can understand that condensation will freeze into ice at -40 below. (cant you?)

            Contrails are not a “thesis” – they are verifiable, proven fact. The historical and scientific record speaks for itself. That you simply disregard this body of information as “bogus” suggests a lack of genuine interest in the truth.

            To be honest, I have not seen any well researched articles that would stand up to any critical peer-review or any evidence that would stand up in a court of law. Herndon’s paper was rejected for poor science. Dane’s knowledge of these is matters is of a lay man yet purports to be an expert- an expert who controls the narrative without the slightest dissent allowed. he makes many claims that are patently false and yet will not address his errors. The slightest questioning and you get called names by his Followers. Is that really how you operate?

            Do you believe everything Dane says without question? why?

            I do question everything- I first was a believer- someone told me to “look up”. I was told those trails never existed before and that contrails dont do that. But when I actually LOOKED at the historical record I saw that contrails always had persisted and spread at times. When I looked at the scientific record I found that researchers had figured out how and why this happens decades ago. So, what I was told initially by a Believer was false. Can you see why I might be skeptical about further claims?

            The modern engines issue- they were not “designed in such a way as to increase the contrail output” – They were designed to use fuel more efficiently. It just happens that by doing so they create slightly more contrails. The exhaust coming out of Turbo Fans is cooler and wetter than older engines. Cold air holds less moisture than warmer air so, the vapor condenses and freezes before it can sublimate back into vapor. Its a subtle difference that isnt all that important in the big picture.

            The big picture is that modern jets creates 7 tons of water per hour of flying. What do you think happens to that water?

            When they claim Turbo fans dont make contrails AT ALL- why dont they address what happens to the water?? Talk about counter intuitive. Can you address this?

            This supposed “overwhelming” evidence just isnt. EVERY claim has literally been debunked, The inside of supposed “spray” planes – turns out to be testing planes with ballast tanks. Soil samples- turns out the earth is 8% aluminum and the finds of Dane’s pond sludge were exactly as expected, Grids, patterns etc…a logical, provable outcome of 1000s of passenger/cargo planes in the sky everyday…halos, sundogs etc…turns out only ice and water refract light into such phenomenon and metal doesnt. Geo-engineering? Turns out people have been discussing it for decades and even the most dedicated researchers steadfastly say no implementation is occurring and if it was they would protest. weather modification? Turns out cloud seeding has nothing to do with the trails people fear, isnt secret, been done for decades and doesnt create trails or clouds, different types of trails in the same sky, starting stopping etc…turns out the atmosphere is not the same temp and humidity everywhere and changes in an instant- go figure…and on and on and on….there is NO evidence.

            The fact remains the basic premise is false. Contrails DO persist and spread and always have…and just pointing to the sky and claiming they are something else is simply a fools errand based on ignorance. You claim the idea of persisting, spreading contrails is “ludicrous”…but can offer NO explanation as to why? Dont you see a problem with that? Its like your sticking your head in the sand and pretending you dont hear these facts.

            You have to ask yourself why you reject these facts in favor of the speculation purveyed by the message masters. You claim evidence that “confirms” spraying? which evidence exactly? why are you not equally skeptical of the claims of Dane?

            So, you can call me an “idiot” if you want but it suggests deeper issues with your reasoning skills that it does my critical analysis of the facts,

          • nomadfiles

            Then October 1st , a young man went into the Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon (which is in the middle of the central valley) and killed nine people.

            Worldwide Expansion of the Experiments

            This is far more than global weather manipulation. The only reason such experimentation can happen without massive uprisings is because of the thorough disinformation campaign and behavior programming we are subjected to. Plus the general poverty and apathy of the populace. Some of that apathy can now be attributed to the constant spraying of lithium which has been expanded to worldwide use. But still, anyone in the public health field should instantly see that the patterns of these symptoms have no correlation to any known disease vector. Hopefully this article will be a stimulus to take action. For example, here is an excellent homemade YouTube video. Leisa Irwin filmed it as the jets spray a varied combination of chemtrails at low altitude directly over Petaluma, California. In the background is a school where children are playing in the yard (11 October 2014).

            [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGgX8IYPxaQ?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent%5D

            Lithium Is A Metal

            Lithium (Li) is the softest of all metals and is an alkali metal. It is relatively inexpensive to mine as it is fairly common. Lithium, refined, is highly reactive and flammable. Lithium will ignite and burn in oxygen when exposed to water or water vapors. It is highly conductive of both heat and electricity, which is why it is used in batteries. This is why it is now being widely used in geoengineering, to increase electric conductivity, as a desiccant (drying agent) and to increase volatility in forest fires. Without any regard as to its extreme toxicity to living creatures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

        • Colophon

          What you are doing is the equivalent of moving on to discuss the murder weapon when we haven’t even found a body. What the chemtrail believers need to do is take a sample directly from a trail which they believe is a chemtrail, and analyse it. Is that really beyond the realms of plausibility? If I thought I was being poisoned by mysterious sprays from above then I would do everything I could to find out what it was. The lack of will is very baffling if they truly believe what they say they do, and aren’t just posturing.

          • nomadfiles

            you are a contrail creep. im not even reading this jibberish youre spouting. go away

  • Thor

    Here is highly credible evidence that High Bypass Turbo fan engines not only make contrails but make MORE contrails that older, less efficient engines. Please debunk if you can.

    ” Influence of propulsion efficiency on contrail formation”

    http://elib.dlr.de/9247/1/aerscitech-2000.pdf

  • nomadfiles

    They need to stifle discussion on chemtrails so they’re sending their agents out to do it. Because it is the greatest crime of all time and more people are waking up to it. But this ruse is backfiring here. Because the more sophists attack this post, that just gives me the opportunity to respond and deliver more info.
    https://youtu.be/eaFibD8F3hg

    • Thor

      Once again you are completely wrong. Personally, I am all for fostering discussion of “chemtrails”- the more people who actually look at the supposed evidence the better….because each and every claim of evidence turns out to not be evidence.

      But whatever- dont let the facts get in the way of your narrative LOL.

      • nomadfiles

        thanks. you do the same

        • Thor

          can you provide an irrefutable fact that is evidence of spraying?

          • nomadfiles

            lol. you keep running that same play. didn’t they teach you any other disruption tactics?

          • Thor

            yes, asking for evidence is “disruption” LOL. Nevermind the facts must stick to the narrative LOL.

            …and you wonder why people do not take you seriously.

          • nomadfiles

            no. droning on and on repeating that same old canard about like of evidence when in fact you have been presented plenty is disruption. sabotage actually. for some reason you are intent on going back and forward over the same ground. if there is no evidence that you are willing to recognize whats the point in presenting it? view the video lincoln posted. read Bernie Suarez’s refutation of every bogus argument you’ve made. that’s my answer. and it should be the end of the story. but it wont.

          • Thor

            actually- what is truly disruptive is when supposed “evidence” has been presented but then shown to be false and not evidence at all…yet that fact gets ignored and waved away and the false evidence is continued to be peddled as actual evidence…THATS disruptive and that is exactly what you do.

            Every single piece of evidence you have presented has been debunked and yet your zealotry does not allow you to admit it.

            think about that.

          • nomadfiles

            March 1, 2016
            This actually happened a few days ago.

            I watched this one long chemtrail flaring brightly in the sun; the latest and brightest among a dozen or so visible trails. The sky was also full of very thin translucent clouds, the residue of earlier spraying. This bright trail traversed a gossamer aerosol cloud. It seemed to be casting a shadow onto this veil. As I was wondering how this could be possible I saw that what looked like a parallel shadow was actually a negative trail of a plane that had flown an almost parallel route ahead of the bright flaring plane. What I was seeing was a path cut by a plane at approximately the same altitude as the bright plane but had left no trail. Instead it left a negative trail as it cut through the nebulous cloud. In addition I saw other planes at approximately the same altitude (about 40,000 feet) leaving no trail. 4:30 PM. (Of course this means that the planes leaving trails were spraying, since the atmospheric conditions are the same for them all. If one plane above 40,000 feet is leaving a trail, they all should be leaving trails. Obviously.)

          • Thor

            More ignorance from you. Why are the atmospheric conditions the same for every plane? are atmospheric conditions uniform? Static? of course not, conditions can change in an instant. Is it logical to assume conditions at 40,000ft are the exact same at 38K feet? or 36,000 feet?

            But what do you care about logic.

            The same reason you dont see clouds in all spots at all times, or why clouds have gaps is why 2 planes in the same sky have different trails.

            the negative trail is called a “distrail”- but you dont want to know the facts,

          • nomadfiles

            What Is Geoengineering?

            But we want to look at the sky. Beginning in the mid-’90s cognizant observers, mostly WWII and Korean war veterans, recognized that the lines and gridding in the sky were producing huge changes in the quality of the atmosphere. When they went to the authorities, they were quickly stonewalled and labeled conspiracy theorists or more bluntly, nut cases. The main question for the ‘conspiracy nuts’ was always: Why? Why would anyone in their right mind spray the entire earth’s atmosphere full of poisonous metallic chemicals?

            Answers began to develop as more and more whistleblowers came forward. One part of the project had to do with control of the weather, specifically causing terrible droughts in areas that Big Ag corporations wanted control over (California, North Africa, Iraq-Syria). During the second Bush administration. with the help of the HAARP [High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program] facility in Alaska, the dream of Reagan was in sight: the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), “Star Wars”. For full spectrum dominance of C4 (command, control, communications, cyber warfare) (Freeland), layers of conductive metallic nanobits spread throughout the troposphere (our atmosphere) were essential.

            Different configurations of different chemical mixes produce varying types of trails and ‘clouds’ – wide, giant lines; thin short lines, fast dispersing sprays, chem ‘bombs’ that turn to haze, are sprayed day and night in order to maintain the plasma ‘battery’ in the stratosphere. Almost everyone awake to this ongoing geoengineering technology recognizes the trails; but perhaps not the chem ‘bomb’ puffs of plasma or chem haze /chem fog. These latter forms are what we are most concerned with because they appear to be ways of infusing lithium into the mix as a carrier of experimental components like psychoactive drugs, virus, bacteria, fungi/mould spores, and whatever unconscionable scientists are paid to concoct and study as it is aerially delivered over unsuspecting populations. The results of these studies are then applied all over the world on yet larger populations.

          • Thor

            “order to maintain the plasma ‘battery’ in the stratosphere”

            Fail. The trails you fear are in the troposphere. Even the simple facts you get wrong.

          • nomadfiles

            see what I mean about insou…uncurious?

          • Thor

            nope- please explain how me pointing out errors of fact that you use to support you belief is “uncurious”

          • nomadfiles

            As with Tesla’s discoveries and inventions, there is strong evidence that the research supposedly destroyed was taken up by corporate/ military agencies such as DARPA [Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency]. (Manzetti) For example, one of the old “Ray Machines” has been transformed into the Superconducting Quantum Interference Device (SQUID) – an extremely sensitive magnetometer that reads and measures tiny magnetic fields like the ones the brain produces and has unfortunately been weaponized.

            More and more evidence of the widespread use of frequency / resonant harmonics to Bring On Illnessin association with the geoengineering program is abundant. If Rife, with a clumsy tube-type device could discover that every species, even every molecule has its own frequency which can be encouraged to live or to be killed by specific frequencies, it doesn’t take much imagination to envision what a Star Trek-like sophisticated computerized digital medical/ environmental sensory device like SQUID could do. (Miller)

            image of lithium haze with fine lines. Southern Oregon

            Radar image of lithium haze with fine lines. Southern Oregon, northern California.

            The fires are directly south of the border line.

            National Weather Service, NOAA, public image 9/10/15

            http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/index.php?wfo=mfr

    • Colophon

      “Make what everybody knows is going on official. Like they did with mass surveillance. I bet Colophon/Thor was arguing fervently that that didn’t exist too; until the government admitted that it did. ”

      Certainly not in my case. Everyone knew that mass surveillance was going on. Living in the UK you could hardly miss the big listening stations at Fylingdales etc! Back in the 1990s people (me included) used to include long lists of “trigger words” in their Usenet signatures, just to keep the spooks at GCHQ happy!

      But you keep on with your false dichotomy that anyone who can see through your lies is some kind of government supporter, if it makes you feel better.

      • nomadfiles

        sorry cant answer this defunct discussion, contrail creep.
        my comments keep disappearing.

  • nomadfiles

    “We’ve all seen them. They lurk in various blog sites and social media sites. It’s the freaky comment thrown in right in the middle of an online conversation to expose geoengineering and chemical spraying. Often on a site, various bloggers, activists, researchers, or journalists may post current images of the aerosolized chemicals being sprayed throughout the world. Sometimes it’s a link someone posts for taking action against geoengineering. While everyone is seemingly brainstorming about what we can do about this, suddenly the odd comment pops in. It’s a sudden post from another human being actually defending government, supporting the system’s denials and secrecy. These individuals claim that no one is being sprayed and that the images are all “contrails”. They claim dodgy knowledge of the atmosphere and nonchalantly gloss over important details of our atmospheric behavior with regard to temperature and humidity.”

    Sound familiar?
    http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/are-online-contrails-creeps-an-organized-movement/

    • Thor

      which important details of the “our” atmosphere have I glossed over? Can you point out any errors of fact I have made?

      Yes, god forbid anyone disagree with your speculation and ignorance. The only possible reason some one disagrees with you is because they are paid. There are entire psychology courses devoted to you LOL.

      • nomadfiles

        well, when lincoln commenter posted this video i didn’t have time to watch. but i should have. it answers every specious argument you and Colophon have made. can I point to errors youve made? certainly. but i’ll let this video do it for me.
        https://youtu.be/U-5VnMIiKPY

        and this too answers all your spurious assertions

        • Thor

          what a cop out- letting a know fraudster do your talking for you LOL. The video is the same old crap thats been debunked a 1000 times before (HR2977, cloud seeding, Owning the weather, the areodynamic “proof” – etc….nothing new, its all been debunked. If you feel there is something that cannot be debunked- point out the specific claim. Otherwise your intellectual laziness will continue to be your downfall.

          Tanker Enemy is a known liar,. He was the one that took the video of an aerodynamic contrail and
          claimed it was “irrefutable proof”- when is was obviously very refutable
          and not “proof” of anything more than his ignorance (or lying)…He
          recently tested jet fuel and when the results came back with nothing
          nefarious he claimed the testing lab was in on it….so, know…if the
          likes of Tanker Enemy, Wiggyton and Herndon are who you hang your
          evidence cap on then you have a poor standard for facts. LOL

          • nomadfiles

            May 31, 2016
            This is ominous. I have never seen this before. Traversing an overarching sheet of mottled clouds, possibly cirrus, possibly chemtrail residue, a long wide dark trail stretched from the western horizon overhead heading northeast. It basically bisected the sky. It was a unique observation. At first I thought it was a negative trail, caused as the plane plowed through this thin sheet of clouds. I notice that after it exited the cloud bank it seems to have begun to leave a trail. Then I looked more closely. This was not a negative trail. This was a dark chemtrail.

            Not a black trail. I have seen them once or twice, though only in the distance. Never this close. So this may be what black trails appear like when they are directly overhead. And then too the blackness may have been greyed by the cloud it was traversing. Nevertheless, when it exited the cloud (last photo) its trail lightened and it seems to have continued a while outside the cloudbank leaving a white trail. 2:00 PM.

            At 3:00 PM that cloud is gone. That’s pretty good seeing as how it covered almost a third of the sky. It has vanished except for a small tuft. Hmmm… Perhaps that was the purpose of that black diagonal. Obviously it was a different formula than the typical chemtrail. Maybe it acted as a catalyst that caused the cloud to disperse. Or rather spread out in an even film, because that is what occupies the space now. So the cloud is not actually “gone”. Just spread thinner.

          • Thor

            You have cognitive dissonance.

            Good luck with that.

          • nomadfiles

            How Could I Have Possibly Discovered What Was Going On Locally?

            In the summer of 2014, I got diarrhoea. Not surprising as I am highly gluten intolerant. But these bouts had no correlation with my diet. Besides my large Border Collie was having bouts of diarrhoea at the same time. Overcoming my shyness about mentioning such events in public, I posted requests for feedback on the local anti-geoengineering Facebook pages. Over a hundred replies came in over a three month period. Almost entirely women, with only a very few exceptions, were having the same sudden onset diarrhoea, accompanied by intense sensations of wooziness, a ‘walking on the moon’ effect and hunger pains, ear pain, pain in the back teeth and sinus agony. None of this correlated to roadside herbicide spraying or diet or anything else. Plus quite a few subjects also noted that their large female dogs got diarrhoea and wooziness at the same time. The key factor came to me from a lady who took her sick dog to a vet in Grants Pass, Oregon. The vet couldn’t find anything physically wrong with the dog and quickly made the diagnosis that the big dog’s ears were affected. In other words, she was seasick. Now don’t laugh. Seasickness is not a joke. When you are truly seasick on a boat, there comes a moment when you only wish for the boat to sink so the misery stops. Fiddling with the inner ears can quickly bring you to your knees as it interrupts the brain’s spatial cognition and you lose all sense of reality.

            Oregon was being hit with not only chemtrail spray containing a possible germ or virus, but also an harmonic FREQUENCY which was aimed specifically at FEMALES. By October of 2014, this phenomenon seemed to diminish and something else took its place. In January 2015, only in Oregon (not Washington or California, both of which are on the west coast of the US), I began receiving reports by email, telephone and over Facebook of something entirely new. Folks were complaining bitterly about very specific symptoms from very specific locations under very specific spraying activity. From my experience as a counselor, having had to do an internship for drug rehabilitation many long years ago, I instantly recognized that the symptoms could only be from lithium ingestion. How could so many people be suddenly dosed up on lithium? And then it hit where I live in Reedsport, a tiny town in a river valley on the central coast of Oregon and I could not deny the symptoms – intense lethargy, thirst, weight gain, muscle pain and so on. I posted my findings on the various anti-geoengineering FB pages.

          • Thor

            “In the summer of 2014, I got diarrhoea.”

            perhaps its affected your critical thinking skills LOL.

            Good luck with that

          • nomadfiles

            that was a quote from an article. not that it matters. im taking nothing you say seriously. hence responses unrelated to your posts which instead contain info on chemtrails.

            like i say. this is a good opportunity to disseminate info.
            plus it gives me a chance to review material i have collected over the years.

            thanks again.

          • Thor

            LOL Now whos being “insouciant” you are too easy.

          • nomadfiles

            in a word. you.
            but like i say, i know its just an act

          • Thor

            So you say- I have spent over 10yrs studying this issue and somehow that is a “casual lack of concern” – More disinfo, misdirection, obfuscation and irrational thinking on your part.

            Good luck with that.

          • nomadfiles

            Excerpt from Locke’s second letter:

            “These dispersal plumes contain lithium and other psychoactive compounds. The areas targeted as of March 1st(2015) are inland valleys and coastal towns south of Florence. Over the next two months, additional spraying operations will be conducted to increase targeting areas in the Portland metropolitan area.”

            In both letters, he explains that he is …”an employee of a weather data collection company and, by proxy, a subcontractor for the National Weather Service office in (central Oregon). In my work for the aforementioned institutions, I collected data, e.g. soil samples, that were used to direct spraying operations for the last three years.”

            Note that – THREE YEARS.

            He sent these letters because of his own family crises which …. “made me recognize the inherent evil of using human beings and the natural environment as a laboratory. Ethical considerations should never be disregarded. Unfortunately at my workplace, they routinely are.”

            This is the picture of what is happening on a global scale: a complete absence of morality. Without compunction, government- and corporate-paid scientists are complicit in open-field experiments that either “slow kill” subjects with side effects or administer LDs (lethal doses).

            So, for three years, up until July 2015 the small towns on the south coast of Oregon: Reedsport, Bandon, Brookings as well as inland in the Klamath Basin and Rogue Valley’s small towns were being used to test a lithium mix with psychoactive compounds on a regular schedule. Soil samples are taken and social interviews carried out, and one can assume, medical records which are now computerized, are monitored.

          • nomadfiles

            How Disease Gets Around

            In July 2015, I began receiving reports from observers of symptoms other than from psychoactive compounds. The new symptoms indicate an application of a pathogen (disease) component most likely correlated with the use of certain electromagnetic frequencies, but more severe than the sudden onset diarrhea during 2014. These ‘attacks’ of flu-colds affected men, women and kids.

            Two major theories of disease vectoring exist, that is there are two ways by which you can catch a disease or get sick. In 1767, John Z Holwell proposed in a paper that microorganisms are transmitters of disease, having gleaned the idea from his study of Ayurvedic medicine. But it wasn’t until the advent of the microscope and Louis Pasteur (1860) that the germ mode of transmission became accepted. It was later used to explain how virus diseases are spread. What this theory does not account for are the sudden onset clusters of illness that strike, make a lot of people sick and then seem to miraculously vanish. Ebola is a prime example of this. It hits in milieu that can accommodate it (poor sanitation, poor cleansing techniques in hospital situations), being highly virulent unlike the common cold or flu bug, it kills almost all of its victims and then after a month or two, it simply vanishes. The cold virus, on the other hand, is spread by air and contact, as is the influenza bug; rarely is either fatal. Waterborne disease such as typhoid also must have a germ or virus to make humans and animals sick.

            The second theory of illness transmission is FREQUENCY or The Mortal Oscillatory Rate (MOR). (www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhpLCO57PY) Early in the 1930s, Dr Royal Rife – a genius, who is to the medical field what Tesla was to the electricity/energy field – researched the effects of electrical energy and electromagnetic rays on living creatures. With just tube-type oscillation devices, he was able to eradicate the cancer virus in rats. Rife eventually gained the backing and research support of many highly esteemed physicians who took up his work and devised more instruments that could administer harmonic frequencies. But the moment Rife’s work began to show amazing healing potential, down came the enmity of the medical mafia, specifically the then-chief of the American Medical Association, Morris Fishbein. He, along with Dr. Thomas Rivers and Hans Zinser, set out to destroy Rife and his discovery. These men and their cohorts were heavily invested in the ‘cut and chemo’ modes of treating cancer. Because of the surge of cancer in the new mechanized age, ‘cut and chemo’ was becoming a very lucrative business despite it’s having had almost no real experimental backing and very poor survival rates and, in many cases, seemed to make the cancer come back even more virulently. Like Tesla, Rife had his research confiscated and, it was said, destroyed. He was literally pushed out of the country ending up retired in disgrace in Mexico. His adherents were put in jail or ‘suicided’. In the United States, his ‘Ray Machines’ were sought out and destroyed. (Fassa)

            Luckily, in Europe, there is a Rife Research group which is continuing the original work. (Haltwanger) But they are constantly vilified and denounced as quacks (Weil: Reif Machines Don’t Work).