Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year

By Michael Snyder, End of the American Dream.

The Middle Class - Public DomainPhotograph: Jordy Meow, from Nippon no Haikyo

We just got more evidence that the middle class in America is dying.  According to brand new numbers that were just released by the Social Security Administration, 51 percent of all workers in the United States make less than $30,000 a year.  Let that number sink in for a moment.  You can’t support a middle class family in America today on just $2,500 a month – especially after taxes are taken out.  And yet more than half of all workers in this country make less than that each month.  In order to have a thriving middle class, you have got to have an economy that produces lots of middle class jobs, and that simply is not happening in America today.

You can find the report that the Social Security Administration just released right here.  The following are some of the numbers that really stood out for me…

-38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

That first number is truly staggering.  The federal poverty level for a family of five is $28,410, and yet almost 40 percent of all American workers do not even bring in $20,000 a year.

If you worked a full-time job at $10 an hour all year long with two weeks off, you would make approximately $20,000.  This should tell you something about the quality of the jobs that our economy is producing at this point.

And of course the numbers above are only for those that are actually working.  As I discussed just recently, there are 7.9 million working age Americans that are “officially unemployed” right now and another 94.7 million working age Americans that are considered to be “not in the labor force”.  When you add those two numbers together, you get a grand total of 102.6 million working age Americans that do not have a job right now.

So many people that I know are barely scraping by right now.  Many families have to fight tooth and nail just to make it from month to month, and there are lots of Americans that find themselves sinking deeper and deeper into debt.

If you can believe it, about a quarter of the country actually has a negative net worth right now.

What that means is that if you have no debt and you also have ten dollars in your pocket that gives you a greater net worth than about 25 percent of the entire country.  The following comes from a recent piece by Simon Black

Credit Suisse estimates that 25% of Americans are in this situation of having a negative net-worth.

“If you’ve no debts and have $10 in your pocket you have more wealth than 25% of Americans. More than 25% of Americans have collectively that is.”

The thing is– not only did the government create the incentives, but they set the standard.

With a net worth of negative $60 trillion, US citizens are just following dutifully in the government’s footsteps.

As a nation we are flat broke and most of us are living paycheck to paycheck.  It has been estimated that it takes approximately $50,000 a year to support a middle class lifestyle for a family of four in the U.S. today, and so the fact that 71 percent of all workers make less than that amount shows how difficult it is for families that try to get by with just a single breadwinner.

Needless to say, a tremendous squeeze has been put on the middle class.  In many families, both the husband and the wife are working as hard as they can, but it is still not enough.  With each passing day, more Americans are losing their spots in the middle class and this has pushed government dependence to an all-time high.  According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 49 percent of all Americans now live in a home that receives money from the government each month.

Sadly, the trends that are destroying the middle class in America just continue to accelerate.

With a huge assist from the Republican leadership in Congress, Barack Obama recently completed negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership.  Also known as Obamatrade, this insidious new treaty is going to cover nations that collectively account for 40 percent of global GDP.  Just like NAFTA, this treaty will result in the loss of thousands of businesses and millions of good paying American jobs.  Let us hope and pray that Congress somehow votes it down.

Another thing that is working against the middle class is the fact that technology is increasingly taking over our jobs.  With each passing year, it becomes cheaper and more efficient to have computers, robots and machines do things that humans once did.

Eventually, there will be very few things that humans will be able to do more cheaply and more efficiently than computers, robots and machines.  How will most of us make a living when that happens?

The robopocalypse for workers may be inevitable. In this vision of the future, super-smart machines will best humans in pretty much every task. A few of us will own the machines, a few will work a bitwhile the rest will live off a government-provided income… the most common job in most U.S. states probably will no longer be truck driver.

For decades, we have been training our young people to have the goal of “getting a job” once they get out into the real world.  But in America today there are not nearly enough good jobs to go around, and this crisis is only going to accelerate as we move into the future.

I do not believe that it is wise to pin your future on a corporation that could replace you with a foreign worker or a machine the moment that it becomes expedient to do so.  We need to start thinking differently, because the paradigms that worked in the past are fundamentally breaking down.

So what advice would you give to a young adult today that is looking toward the future?

Please feel free to join the discussion by posting a comment below…

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  • ClubToTheHead

    Paul Volker, 1979: “The standard of living of the average American has to decline.”

    “I don’t think you can escape that.”

    “Volcker Asserts U.S. Must Trim Living Standard,” New York times, October 18, 1979, p. 1.

    Mission Accomplished.

    • Another_Netizin

      Funny how the upper class standard of living increased exponentially at the same time as the middle class’s has decreased.

      • Malby

        What’s the ” upper class”?

        • Carsten Schöder

          The 20% to 10% highest income households work as a rule of thumb.

    • Matthew Uddenberg

      Way to take something completely out of context. He was talking about raising interest rates to stave off the run away inflation occurring at the time. He was saying that the raising of rates would produce a “temporary” reduction in the standard of living, but would avoid a much larger problem down the road.

      • ClubToTheHead

        The context is that of a high standard of living for workers is incompatible with capitalism.

        The governor of Illinois is trying to create “right to work” zones where minimum wage laws don’t apply.

        Illinois, in his opinion, doesn’t yet have enough desperately poor people to sustain the wealthy class in the style to which they have become accustomed.

        Extreme wealth accompanies extreme poverty.

        Low wages are the flip side of high profits. High economic growth is a
        consequence of high demand. When wages are low, demand needs to be
        supplemented by high consumer debt to be maintained.

        This is why capitalism regularly needs to be saved from itself, such
        as in the 1930s and in 2008 on, and is sure to happen again. To repeat
        the same process (austerity) and expect a different result is Einstein’s
        definition of “insane”.

        Capitalism needs to get off the government’s teat and spend down some of its idle capital by increasing wages.

        Of course, Big Finance owns the government and the election process,
        so this is not likely to happen via the means provided within, and by,
        the CCCP (Central Committee of the Capitalist Party).

        • Malby

          You all ignore the huge and comfortable middle class in this country. Look around you. Even the “poor” have food shelter transportation and iPhones.

          • Carsten Schöder

            So the “poor” do belong to the middle class?

          • The “poor” are among the top 1% on the world’s scale… I’d say if you’ve been to a coffee shop in the last month, or bought anything from the freezer section of a grocery store this week, that you’re not at all poor…. surely a poor person wouldn’t be able to afford to be so incredibly wasteful with their spending…

          • Carsten Schöder

            If the “poor” in the US are incredibly wasteful, what does the mean for the wealthy?

          • hereNT

            You really hate coffee, don’t you?

    • LOL standard of living decrease? “Mission Accomplished” are you high?

      People get into a $30,000 car that gets 12 miles per gallon so they can drive 2 miles to get a $5 cup of coffee…. every… single…. day….

      Please tell me about this standard of living reduction, because all I see around me are people that are literally overflowing with excess.

      • ClubToTheHead

        Read the post.

        People who make $30,000/year are not driving $30,000 cars.

        To say they are defies reason.

  • dharper7

    Want to know how to survive and thrive over the next 50 years? Here’s my list: Learn everything you can about technology and how the internet really works…learn the basics of coding to at least understand the mindset of programmers (best option: learn to code for real)….Emphasize the following areas of focus: renewable energy, mobile tech, biotechnology, sustainability, and robotics. Work everyday to achieve a better understanding of how society evolves, and how people think. Understand cultural relativism, force yourself to take contrarian views, and play devils advocate. Learn how to write and communicate well. The most successful people this century will be the independent thinkers who have a large reference base for how the world works. Analytical, innovative, and singular-focus are all important attributes. Have a wide range of interests, but force yourself to keep from being pulled in 10 different directions due to information overload. Find an area of business that is underserved, or will be important when larger movements (i.e. robotics, AI, drones) reach maturity. Be a forward, independent thinker, and you will be good to go.

    • Billy Crosby

      That is the way it should have always been……

      • dharper7

        There are underlying principles that are pretty universal, yes, but the industries discussed, and the perspective taken, are uniquely 21st Century…none of the industries I mentioned even existed in substantial forms 50 years ago information overload was not something we used to deal with, and our new economy is focused more and more on analysis than labor. Some of what I said was obvious, but look at the context and specifics to see how it differs from previous advice

    • Israel Unger

      Very well said! Combine what you’ve said with the new opportunity in 2016 where we can all invest in startups through crowdfunding and you’ll be off to the races. Did you know only 3% of the population (those worth $1 million or more) is currently allowed to invest outside of Wall Street? This will change this year! Make your money work for you and your community and stop making it work for only the rich!

    • RHytonen

      The benefit of MY experience (age 71, BSEE?)

      Learn Farsi.
      And develop proficiency and tooling in gunsmithing and small arms.

      • dharper7

        that got dark. Why Farsi?

    • Susan Nash

      Knowing how to code isn’t going to help you. Robots can code, they basically take the stuff created by past programmers who knew how to do it and turn it into code generators that idiots can use. Meanwhile after 20 years of learning the new crap every year you burn out.

      • dharper7

        I said in the next 50 years, not 100/200….We are not going to be at that point with AI anytime soon. Automation creep will happen (it has already started) but knowing how coding/programming works will shed light on how to protect yourself from becoming a worker with little/no modern value. If you know the backend, it is much easier to attack/ analyze front-end problems.

  • nocussing

    I wonder how much longer until a French Revolution type of situation happens.

    • BeerySwine

      Never. We’re frogs and our economy is the pot of water we’re in that’s being slowly, ever so slowly heated. We’re gonna die and the world will have a good laugh over it, just before global warming starts to kick in, then the rest of the universe can have a laugh over that.

      • Andrew Conte

        yes…we are the stage where all the dumb Americans are saying…wooohooooo. i love this sauna

    • DC

      I have been talking of the French Revolution for 25 years now……..

      • Austin Harvey Stock

        That’s not that long though…

    • socialjusticeinamerica

      The French Revolution in reverse. The peasants have been brainwashed into supporting the monarchy.

      • Cats r Flyfishn

        We can thank the media for encouraging that.

        • Cyr3n

          i blame AM radio and megachurchs.

          • Freedom

            Yet the real fault is liberal ideology

          • Cyr3n

            so youd rather keep things the way they are, and have all the checks and balances that existed prior to financialization suspended so bankers can continue to rob americans?

            “liberal” and “conservative” dont exist anymore.. both parties are dividing americans while enriching themselves.

          • King43

            liberal and conservative talking points are mere distractions at this point

          • paul

            It is not it is the corporate elite it is the right that is taking our jobs sticking up for their corporate elite buddies what’s wrong with you wake up and smell the coffee dude

          • TJ2000

            Someday; You’ll wake up to realize that liberal media has manipulated society with the “corporate elite” buzz-word into turning this country communist. And someday; You’ll wake up to realize communism is the EXACT reason the “corporate elite” exists. History has shown this over and over again and somehow liberals never seem to get it.

            All it takes is opening up thought patterns beyond media hype and applying a little common-sense. The “corporate elite” gets money from where?????

            1) It either gets it from a product / service someone WILLING payed for
            2) It gets it from a product / service the government has FORCED people to pay for.

            Free market allows every tom, dick and harry to offer the same products / services at cheaper more reasonable prices. BUT — If government socialistic systems outlaw tom, dick and harry from competing then the “corporate elite” gets FULL POWER to charge whatever they want and every government socialistic system FORCES people to purchase items they typically aren’t stupid enough to pay stupid prices for.

            What liberals just can’t seem to figure out is; Government IS the only TRUE monopoly force out there. Every-time they run to government with their problems they just FORCE the “corporate elite” to grow even more.

            Simply put; Liberal ideology is that sheeple run straight to the wolf

          • JNWesner

            Do you have any idea what liberal beliefs are? It’s liberals who want to tax the rich and corporations. Democrats would provide tax incentives to companies who create or return jobs to the US. Liberals are the only people who can stop, then reverse, this trend. So-called conservatives are who have created this situation.

          • QEternity

            Put your bong down and back away from the keyboard. Bill Clinton did more to destroy jobs in the US than any Republican in the last 75 years.

          • JohnnyD

            But Bill Clinton does not represent Liberalism, so whatever he did or did not do is not germane to a discussion of liberal policy. The only people who think Bill Clinton, or for that matter, his wife, are representing of liberal values, are conservatives or libertarians who don’t seem to know what liberal policies are in the first place. They see Clinton to the left of them and slap on a “liberal” label, while all of us actual liberals are still waiting for someone to actually represent us, and see both Clintons as hard right wing democrats.

            But conservatives still have lots of things to say about liberal policies and the liberal politicians who supposedly shove those horrid policies down everyone’s throats, notwithstanding that their definitions of liberalism mean nothing to anyone in the real world but themselves.

          • gtg1

            OK, good point… However, we haven’t had a President, Congress and the Senate whom Care About “We The People” in Years. It’s Both Parties and their agendas!

          • JohnnyD

            I’ll go along with that. Our politicians talk strategy, and just as you say, they justify it all to strengthen or build the party, whichever party is relevant. They only mention us lowly citizens when they are trying to sell us something, or need our votes to further enrich themselves.

            You know, “boost the party.”

          • gtg1

            An the answer is… BOTH PARTIES! From Pres. Reagan whom deregulated almost everything to Pres. Clinton with Nafta, 1st Bush & 2nd Bush’s Wars & Lies and Obama care! We The People now can no longer afford our governments parties!

          • King43

            liberal ideology? No the real fault is the rules are leveraged 90% in big businesses favor.

          • How so?

          • Asmodeus Mictian

            Please explain which liberal policies encourage businesses to locate elsewhere and do please call out the liberal Congress critters who pass all these tax breaks.

            Oh, right, just some tribalism and holier than thou swill. Please DON’T carry on.

          • Lucy L

            They are a big part of the problem in this country

          • jjdoe

            They are all owned by the same people.

        • King43

          Here’s a GRAND idea…give the tax loop holes to small business. Eliminate them for businesses who take jobs out of America!! Decrease corporate tax by half if 95% or more of their workforce are Americans!!

      • Yo, I started to reply and sometimes I just can’t stop. I’m actually going to start using a word program to edit the shit I write because DAMN.

        Well said socialjustic. Is it not the same for all western nations? I feel like the majority of Americans are NEVER going to get it, and the next generations children won’t know a thing about the freedoms WE let slip away. Even given the facts presented here, the majority of people still argue that there has to be someone in charge of all of us. That without “government”, and let’s be real here, they’re just a bunch of crazy rich old white FUCKS! And without armed killers violently enforcing the “governments” laws, there is no guarantee that we wouldn’t all just go crazy and turn into blood thirsty beast, and somehow that becomes proof that we would. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? lol “Without “government” and “laws” everyone would just kill each other…”. Have you ever heard that one? And it’s the same as saying, “without government and law enforcement I would go around killing people”. So I always say something like, “maybe you would go be a raving lunatic like that, but I wouldn’t, and of the hundreds of people I have known personally throughout my life, I know that none of them would go stark raving mad just because suddenly there aren’t some old morally bankrupt sacks of shit issuing demands anymore. It always goes straight to that, as if the average human in this country is just constantly thinking about killing people or doing people harm. A lot of us are fuckin broken too. From busting our ass 8-12 hours a day for years at a time. I’m always telling everyone I talk to how/why our way of life is completely backwards. France just had it’s false flag “terrorist attack” and today America got a taste in San Bernadino, It’s bullshit man… It’s all about getting the apathetic, voting cattle all riled up so they’ll support whatever the fuck the politicians are doing.

        • Cyr3n

          icelandic revolution. google it.

        • Cyr3n

          i dont think the public is falling for the stricter gun control. there is enough where younger people know whats up and the older generations are hard set in their ways where its their right to own a gun.

          • AikiDavid

            “falling for stricter gun control?” Say what? THE PUBLIC WANTS MORE GUN CONTROL, every survey and poll shows that, it is the Republican’t congress and the NRA that is stopping THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and not allowing us to be at least a little safer by having less assault weapons on the street!!

          • Cyr3n

            More gun control doesnt mean less assault weapons on the street. It means less average citizens get to own guns while more criminals, power-hungry cops, and elitist racists will stockpile guns. So no i dont buy it that less guns means more safety. We have more safety if issues are resolved in our society.. like access to mental healthcare, well paying jobs, domestic violence, and social mobility. Just because you take away a gun from a pistol packin’ grannie doesn’t mean your house wont get robbed from gangsta kids using illegal guns. Target the motive not the citizens. Thanks.

          • JohnnyD

            Yes, we wouldn’t want to “fall for” long-overdue, common-sense regulations which over 90 percent of us support, now would we?

            Or am I mis-reading your intent?

          • Cyr3n

            Its not common sense law. People own guns for different reasons. Just like people own cars for different reasons, like status, transportation, or freedom. What youre saying is akin to saying just because there are tons of drunk drivers and road-rage deaths, we should ban all cars. No one can have a car anymore because your avg citizen is just inherently too untrustworthy to be driving a car which can mow over crowds of pedestrians. Thats basically what youre saying.

            So no, im not buying this disarmament fanfiction and how it will make everyone safer. Bullshit.

          • JohnnyD

            Wasn’t preaching “disarmament”, simply saying I support making certain classes of weapons either harder or impossible to get, and doing thorough background checks on ALL firearm purchases, and that a huge majority of the voting public agrees with that.

            I own two registered guns myself, why would I want them taken away?

            And a car is not a very good analogy to a weapon. First, there is no “right” to either own one or operate it, aside from the right to fairly treated under the law by the person or dealership who sells it to you.

            And it can’t kill or injure anyone except on or near roads (in most cases), a location where all are aware of the inherent risks in operating or being there, and accept those risks as part of the convenience of driving on, or simply crossing, public roads. They can’t generally ricochet off another car, and sail a thousand feet to strike another car parked in a field, killing or injuring those inside. Or skip off a pond. They CAN punch right through a wall and kill or injure someone in a store or home, and do so regularly.

            But we can rest assured there’s little chance that one’s two-year-old child is going to take the car for a spin and accidentally kill someone, or themselves, just because they found the keys. Let’s just call that “statistically improbable”. And while a jilted lover or an angry young man COULD use their car to attempt to harm someone in some way, as an act of suicidal revenge, I suspect that if a gun is abailable, they would likely choose that method instead. After all, they can’t easily run over themselves, and might not choose to go thru “death by cop”, when they can put a bullet in their own head instead. Even plowing into a bridge abutment might leave them mangled but alive.

            Lastly, a weapon is something a person carries (or can carry), as a personal tool, designed for the express purpose of killing things, whereas a car is something which carries a person or persons. While it is still a tool, it wasn’t designed for convenient killing, but for transportation. And it can’t be carried, say, miles into a trackless wilderness, and used to kill someone there.

            So you should come up with a better analogy. I don’t know what it might be, except maybe swords, or tasers with broken “on” buttons. No other consumer product is really designed to kill things in the way that firearms are, so there really ISN’T any good analogy. Military hardware like grenades, certainly, but those are not readily available to the public, so still not really applicable.

          • Cyr3n

            ok you want to harp on cars being a bad analog while long-windedly mansplaining how youre cool with there being more hoops for people to jump through to obtain guns because you already own a couple. That sounds mighty privileged.

            what if tomorrow, according to their background checks, some heart medication you take has neurological side effects so they will come to your house and confiscate your guns based on a probable mental-health risk you pose to the public. You still fine with that? Its not making anyone safer to take guns away from you based on some arbitrary measure of public safety. So even if “common sense” laws are enacted.. its not going to stop jilted husbands from murdering their wives, school shootings, or religious extremists from snipering people at walmarts.

            all this is feel-good legislation. There are too many weapons already floating, broad brush laws are really not the answer. We need to target the motives for mass killings, put our nations best sociologists on the problem, and remove societal stressors that contribute to creating these home-grown suicide gunners. A million moms can march tomorrow to end gun violence, but this is not a problem policy can solve alone.

        • AikiDavid

          Anarchism is NOT the answer. Even though I agree that 90% or more of people are good moral types and would not go crazy killing people if there was no government and no laws, it only takes 1% of sociopaths to start murdering at will to intimidate the rest into doing what they say and then society looks like a Mad Max movie!! We have to have government, but we don’t need to have one run by the super rich and big corporations. We need not only Bernie Sanders as President, we also need a majority of Americans to wise up and vote in a majority of progressives who will get the government working for the people, and for the environment, without which, we have no habitable planet!!

          • JohnnyD

            Exactly right. And exactly why we have those governments and laws – because experience has demonstrated that in the absence of a power structure, one will arise spontaneously in response to the need of many, and their exploitation by those 1 percent, in whatever form. Theft, violation or destruction of private or civic property, the taking of lives, the taking of slaves, the creation of “protection rackets”, you name it. And sooner or later that whirlwind comes around to EVERYONE’s door. It just begins with the easiest ones to blow open, but never stops there. They might simply sit at a keyboard in some bank and gamble away all of your retirement money on risky ventures which don’t pan out (for you), without there being a damn thing you can do to prevent it, all while daring you to do anything about it, and forcing you to pay back their losses with your “sweat equity”.

            The libertarian utopia is just as unrealistic and unachievable as the communist one, because it doesn’t have any mechanisms to control unrestrained greed or the atrocities which arise from it. Both make the false assumption that people will agree to share resources and all respect one another’s right to exist, and play fair in business dealings, without anyone or anything to make it so. The highest-paid people on Wall Street get their big money precisely because they are exceptionally good at siphoning off value from various “sources”, otherwise known as human “investors”, and re-distributing that value to their clientele and themselves. We already live under a “shakedown” system RIGHT NOW, and all that’s collapsed thus far is the will to enforce the banking and investment laws. Just wait until general law and order becomes unenforceable as well, and imagine what people might do with THAT opening to “make their lives a little easier”, or urge you to work a little harder.

      • paul

        It’s like in college at a sorority thank you sir can I have another and another and another and another we keep falling for their lies vote against our best interest as result we give them away or middle class

        • Iwant Moore

          right on brother paul

      • joy

        Yes, we have, that’s why I’m going to go as off grid as possible to stop feeding the beast that is takong out the poor and middle class.

        • socialjusticeinamerica

          There is a big difference between the two parties. The Republicans, until the Trump Frankenstein monster, were all in sync. They fed off the same talking points everyday. These were disseminated by talk radio, various print media, and of course the crown jewel Fox/Faux News. All owned by Rupert Murdoch. The Republicans fast trac

          • David DeCelle

            That was well said socialjusticeinamerica. As a citizen of one of these welfare red states, which just cut 127 mil out of their education budget, I couldn’t agree more. We are a blight. I’m constantly blown away by the level of cognitive dissonance that exists in red states. I understand it though. Red states have a little problem and it’s called racism. The hatred that exists here on all sides of the equation polarizes and paralyzes its citizens in camps fueled by inequality, injustice and indifference. No one down here wants anyone to have anything because they think they’re all freeloaders never putting together that they as a state, are in fact, the very freloaders they despise. Instead of looking for solutions they prefer to wrap themselves in the comforting arms of hypocrisy and rhetoric.
            Unfortunately, voting democrat doesn’t do it for me. It’s not troll influence driving apathy toward Big D. It’s the very real awareness that Big D doesn’t represent the working man anymore. It’s all just one big money party now. Until we as a majority can unite under a new banner with new rules nothing will change. It’s time for an overhaul. We need to move past the concept of team R vs team D and become team America. I would propose a third party. The American Independence Party. The platform is simple. Publicly funded elections. That’s all. A single idea that cuts to the heart of the problem. As long as we aren’t paying for elections, we aren’t in charge. That is the one thing that must occur before anything else could ever change. As long as your congressman or your president is having his career decided by moneyed interests, then that’s in his best interest. Our interests are not very interesting when they don’t interest corporations. In fact, they hate our interests. Hate them! So no. No more voting for corporate interests over our own. It’s fix this, or we fix nothing.

          • Don Dressel

            Who the hell do vote we vote for?
            There’s not much of a choice!

        • Iwant Moore

          Yes….that’s what I keep saying, shouting, whispering in my prayers: “stop feeding the beast” one power we (the poor & middle but falling fast classes) is where we spend what little filthy lucre we get..think about it peeps think about it…they toss us crumbs and make us pay ridiculous taxes while they (1%, super rich) pay next to nothing (and sometimes, prolly more than we know) no tax at all-capital gains, scam 501 c3 orgs, religious orgs, other tricks, making money with money instead of having to sell themselves in the “market place”, having to sell your labor for a pittance and no benefits. We need to organize and start refusing to take this shite any longer…they can’t kill us all & plus they need us to keep the cogs in the capitalist pig machine running right? Oh & also being branded with the scarlet C of a criminal record no matter how petty the charges can screw your chances (slim as they are anyway) of finding a decent job so you could have your own family, decent place to live…when those dreams are dashed because they make you pay for your mistakes for the rest of your life peeps become lonely, feel trapped, despair sets in, setting you up to be more likely to give dope, coke, drink, pick your poison a try to calm those feelings not to mention the anxiety brought on by not being able to provide for yourself and do i need to go on? Don’t think so…we’re living it… just about everyone knows somebody going through something like this. IMO Power to the People not Pigs!

    • Constitution First

      Understand, this is exactly what Democrats and RINO Republicans have been striving for for the last 40 years. Look at how the TEA Party has been systematically vilified for the crime of simply pointing this fact out? The day of reckoning is within sight.

      • Paul Long

        Here, here. The sooner the better.

      • DisentAgain

        The Tea Party is *encouraging* this trend. This is about unchecked corporate greed and lack of oversight by the people. Exactly the kind of laissez-faire suicide the tea party supports.

        You want more of the same and worse? Keep up the illusion that markets have your best interests at heart.

    • So off with their heads and then what? Is the rule of law still intact? Who administers the law after the French Revolution? Jesus you people are myopic.

      Robespierre ended up on his own guillotine. Remember that 🙂

      • AL Epding

        Yes, but he had a hell of a lot of influence and power up to that point of his execution. France was in many ways changed forever by the revolution and Terror.

      • Allen Black

        The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.

        Thomas Jefferson

        He helped found this once great nation… REMEMBER THAT.

        • If you have any delusions that what would arise from the ashes of an American Reign of Terror would be Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers, well…let me go ahead and disavow you of that notion.
          Given the mendacious world we live in, after an American Reign of Terror, we’re much more likely to get Pol Pot than Jefferson; a Maduro is more likely than a Washington.

          Please, try to think rather than feel: Is the system we have now perfect? Of course not. Is a revolution, complete with public executions, going to provide you and your family with more or less chance of survival and happiness?

          If you think a Reign of Terror is the answer compared to working within the existing framework the Founders created, then your life must genuinely be terrible: Since you’re posting on the Internet during the middle of the day, you’re obviously not in bad shape and are not thinking clearly (or you’re not capable of serious thought).

          Get your head out of your ass.

          • Folwart

            People have tried that, they’ve been trying. Do you not see what happens? Good people go in to change the system, and either the system changes then or the people turn away their own salvation. Wake the fuck up, lady. The system needs to be forcibly emptied, disassembled and rebuilt from the ground up by the people that are born to lead, not the richest folks in it for the gains. They are easy as fuck to spot, the latter types. They should be beheaded immediately because nothing good ever comes from them.

          • Thomas Las Cola

            Geraldine Ferraro just like someone said a revolution doesn’t have to be killing but we the people can kick the assholes that have ruined this great nation out on their ass. Get better people and solutions. People can be on the internet at this time when they don’t have a job and are trying to but as they say u can only do so much don’t worry bout stuff you can’t control. Kind of thinking that has gotten us this bad. It’s seems like your happy with they way things are run.. well look around besides first amendment this country ain’t the best anymore. we need real honest change or the system Will crash then it’s the once rich and happy who will be suffering.

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          • Kyle

            I always find you can get your message across better if we refrain from being critical of others.
            That being said I pertake on bashing others from time to time and everyone so far here has contributed some good thought.

      • Crayven

        There was a time when no one could imagine a state without a king.
        Then the king lost his head and the world moved on.

        There was a time it was considered impossible for young people to find their mate alone. The parents must do it or else there will be chaos.
        And that changed and the world moved on.

        • Benjamin Smith

          to be fair, look at the divorce rates, young people are shit at finding their mate alone.

          • Kyle

            Good point, but I wouldn’t want the old system back in play.

          • Cyr3n

            Divorce rates are high because 80% of women wouldn’t choose to be dating or remain married to a chronically unemployed man.

    • Gary McCollom

      Yet somehow the left says that The Great Obama has the economy running flawlessly, how can this be.

      • Robert Adams

        Because hes a republican in wolf clothing

        • Folwart

          Two sides of the same coin, Sport. Choosing a side means you haven’t quite grasped the severity of the corruption. It’s a false dichotomy that’s being thrown in our faces. People that cry oh it’s the Republicans faukt, no it’s the liberals, yeah…the joke is on those people. Don’t be part of the joke.

          • poodlekiss1922

            The sooner we realize that republicans and democrats are all politicians who serve the rich the better.

    • I hope it happens soon. I want to see wealthy filth such as the Waltons, The Devos, The Koch brothers heads on stakes.

      • Proteios

        I dont. It will be utter chaos. It would be worse than what we have now. And at the end. Like all revolutions. Only a select few will benefit after the chaos and death of many. The king is dead. Long live the king.

        • Michael O Malloy

          Le Roi est Mort Vive Le Roi

        • mscheaf

          Exactly, we can start a revolution and it will be sponsored by Walmart within the first month. We will end up worse than where we started. The American public is too damn stupid.

      • Crayven

        Amen to that

      • Don’t forget Soros, Gore, Clintons,and many others on the left, and obozo by the time he is finally out of office.

        • Folwart

          Don’t forget those on the right either. Don’t worry, there will be plenty of pikes for both sides. Both deserve it. You do realize choosing one over the other, as you seem to think right is somehow better thsn left, that the joke is on you right?

          • Where does it read that I was “Choosing one over the other “? I was just replying to the dumbass above me that was laying it on the right. Why didn’t you lambaste him also ?

          • Folwart

            Fair point, apologies. It was a knee jerk reaction to seeing “left”. I see what you mean. We both could have clarified better, and I should have been more observant.

            Joe, it’s a false dichotomy and we have plenty of stakes to line the left and right side of the road up the hill. Don’t try to hog them for the right.

            Consider him lambasted.

            The rest is a general explanation.

            It is just so frustrating to see people duped by such simple distractions. At what point will they realize that our current system generates problems, it doesn’t fix anything. Playing favorites or passing blame is absurd.

            It’s like two brothers that have a tendency to lie, or at least not tell the whole truth, getting into a spat with no witnesses. Even if you have an affinity or stronger bond with one, you punish both. It doesn’t matter who is to blame.

            Checks and balances were supposed to protect us. They have failed. The only failsafe we have is the people. Most believe what they are told, many that question some things still hold onto the idea that it’ll somehow work out, a few take the conspiracies too far (though better too far than not far enough) and they are ALL divided.

            Do we not have enough commonality, or at least common cause, to stand side by side and agree on the only points that currently matter? Corruption has utterly taken hold, our government is compromised, our banking system is compromised, conglomerates and corporations somehow have created monopolies and all have stolen power and resources that do not belong to them, made decisions that are not in our nation’s best interest and nothing of consequence stood in their way.

            We have history to show us what not to do, so let’s do something different. It’s insane to repeat the same behavior expecting different results. I’ve been voting for over a decade, some many more than I. In all of that time you witnessed the manipulation and the fall of America. At what point does one realize that it makes no difference?

          • Folwart you are a gentleman and a scholar, and I totally agree with you. Peace.

          • Folwart

            Thank you, Terry. I appreciated your civil response to my error that allowed me the opportunity to redeem myself as well. Peace, Brother.

          • Danny Richardson

            This courtesy displayed is worthy of applause, not the norm for such topics. There is a left, why its not represented I need not explain.

          • Cyr3n

            The best comparison I’ve seen.. Is the Right is suspicious of government and thinks government’s influence needs to be minimized. The Left sees large corporations as having too much influence and needing to be controlled.

            What we have now is both a corrupt government and corrupt corporations overriding laws through large political contributions and media sector which won’t say a peep about the double-team that’s going on.

          • Folwart the Seeker

            Because they also benefit.

          • Exactly. This isn’t about right or left. This is about greed, corruption and a rigged system benefitting those in power while screwing those who did nothing to deserve this.

          • King43

            The right only wants government influence minimized when the policies don’t support their agenda. The left only corporation influence minimized when the policies don’t support their agenda. What about us? The People

          • mscheaf

            It’s probably because the rich dudes on the left support welfare and higher taxes and a clean environment even though it hurts them while the douche nozzles on the right only care about themselves and making themselves richer and absolutely nothing else

          • shakespeare turner

            I would go all the way down the list if I could. Here are a few of them. The Clinton’s, the Koch Brothers, Jeff Greene, Mark Zuckerberg, the Romney’s, the Bushes, the Gore’s, Wall Street,.Pharmaceutical Companies, and filthy rich mega churches etc.

          • Brenda Fergen

            So you would go after new money and new innovators who haven’t really been around long enough to contribute to the mess we call government? Why? People like Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates actually started out as young college students who had some good ideas but not a lot of money. If you are going to lambaste people who really did work for their money and freely give much away, who would be motivated to be successful and innovative?

          • snoglydox

            FYI: Bill Gates came from well-off parents, and Mark Zuckerberg parents were doing pretty good, too. And…they both stole their “good ideas” that gave them their excessive wealth.

        • paul

          Liberals are the only friend you got left I want to give you health care they want to give you higher wages they want to give you more time off do you want the Union strong or to negotiate higher pay the Right to Work program negotiated by the right I mean Republicans was done so you didn’t have to join a union weakening the unions to the biggest bully the workers in the lower pay in Europe auto workers make $60 an hour that means a Ford worker in Europe makes $60 an hour here they starting at $15 an hour why because a Republican Institute of the Right to Work program twisted the meaning of it reduced the Union coffers what the heck man you can see why what’s going on today the Republicans never tell the truth they are not on your side we are corporate elite backers and that’s it the Bush left office gas was 465 gallon unemployment was over 10% we had the worst economy since the Great Depression wake up

          • I want to give you periods and commas.And also a reality check.
            Please, don’t do me any favors by “giving me healthcare”. You have already doubled my premium, increased my deductible, and took away my choice of doctor.
            The country can’t afford any more of your give-aways.

          • paul

            Healthcare is not free, obamacare pays nothing, Morse us given to the rich than the poor, obamacare is just a law change, that’s it. Anyone that had insurance by employers ztillhas the same program, the only changes is more peoplecan purchase healthcare, those people who are singning up have high ded. for Hosp. Dr. Vista are 15 co-pays, testing 50 vo-pay scrips 15. Anyone who had health coverage was unaffected. My premium stayed the same. The new people who now qualify to buy it go to the website and sign up. Its not a giveaway. Taxing seniors to give tax breaks the the corporate elite are can’t afford. Corporate welfare is something else. People who refuse to pay for their own health care are the ones that want their health care paid for by tax payors by going to the Hosp. uninsured. You have no idrea what you are talking about. That’s gthe biggest problem, people like you who think they know and never did any research to really find out, lazy know it alls

          • Hey MF, don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
            I AM the one paying MY premiums and deductibles, not you,a-hole.
            The only research you have probably done is to watch MSNBC all night.
            Try the REAL WORLD sometime.

          • Ellen

            You are so typical of the Right. You can’t get your facts right and you can’t stop name calling. Sigh. It just gets so old.

          • Nonsense. My facts ARE straight, but you lefties are too enamored with obama to even try to learn the truth.
            And I picked up name calling as a defense to counter the personal attacks from libbies who ignored fact based info, and had nothing better to say.

          • stupidkitty84

            Obamacare/ACA is basically a tax for healthcare, and a shitty, expensive one at that. Why are we paying billions in profits every year to healthcare insurance companies? And the uninsured and underinsured have a penalty tax of $1,000+ when they file their taxes, which defeats the purpose of insuring people. People who can afford health insurance the least will be penalized? Makes no sense. Single-payer is our only hope to save our healthcare system from skyrocketing healthcare premiums and costs AND ensuring all Americans are given preventative care and taken care of when they are sick or injured. We are only 1 of 2 industrialized nations that do not guarantee healthcare as a right.


          • Herbert

            Please stop talking until you can correctly express your opinions. (learn English grammer) This is disgusting. What are you even talking about?

        • Lipstick Lesbian

          The corruption in both parties starting with the top. Nobody should have to live on less than $60,000 per year for a family or $30,000 per year for a person.

        • JNWesner

          It’s a pity, Terry, that you have no idea who your enemy really is. Gore? No way. Clinton? Far down the list. Start with Republicans; they have created this mess.

          • And it’s a pity, JNWesner, that you have no idea. Period.

      • Freedom

        I rather see liberal heads on those stakes

      • paul

        Amen brother amen

      • King43

        If it wasn’t them it would be someone else.

    • n.e.woodson

      It’s interesting to see that when someone mentions a revolution people start talking about the French Revolution and the guillotine. Maybe a dictionary would help because a revolution does not have to involve violence/murder. Sad…

      • Benjamin Smith

        Was the general reaction to the French Revolution from the American public and founding fathers…. general distaste? Especially the prison massacres.

      • Cyr3n

        Iceland did it. Kicked out its bankers and forced politicians to resign.

    • Nicki Hill

      Ive often thought the same thing. What will it take for Americans to truly fight back and revolt?

      • Thomas Las Cola

        Nicki hill. I for one would be in that category but as they say unless it’s beneficial nobody will do it. When everything cost money that is the root of all evi l materialistic things driving how we live.To bad I don’t have the means or luxury to partake in that economy. All the money I make which ain’t a lot goes to food and rent. Who we need is a robin hood to get behind

    • Ashley Johnson

      Never gonna happen. Americans are way too divided and distracted.

    • Jim Dawkins

      And what exactly will that solve? A lot of people forgot that excessive government does not make the economy better. All this talk of evil corporations is disney mindthink. Stimulate the private sector. Make it easier end less expensive for companies to run their business in the US. That’s what get things going and makes for job creation.

    • IwantMoore

      soon i hope…would love to drink the blood of the fat capitalist exploitative pigs

  • Jeff Dahl

    From one that was former middle class, that keeps hearing things are getting better, Here is a snapshot of my current economy in a nutshell… I am a structural drafter that started drawing in 1984 at $5.50/hour after graduating from a tech school. I averaged $1/hr raise every year up to 2008 when work dried up I was making $30/hr… I had made it through a couple other slow downs over the years and when this happened I knew this was going to be much worse. I did not get fired or laid off, First we lost all the benefits, then cut to 30 hours a week, then 20 and finally just did not have any work that I could bill hours on and could not find another job, so I became self employed. The first 3 years, I worked 80 hours a week maintaining foreclosed properties, trying to earn the $60K a year I was used too, until that work dried up for the company that I was getting work orders from. About that time, my old boss called with a contract job, and was thinking construction work was going to start picking back up again soon. That was only wishful thinking, Since then, my wife and I have been living on what averages out to $1000 a month (going on 4 years now) to cover our house payment, all the bills and food… Luckily is just barely does, but not much left over for ANYTHING else.

    • Jim in Texas

      My story is similar. What’s important for people to understand is that from the outside, it might look like not much has changed. Still in the house, still have a car, kids, etc. I have become what they are starting to call “asset poor.” Able to scramble to cover all bases, but no additions to savings or 401ks for nearly twenty years while simply trying to keep a roof over our heads. A couple of paychecks away from absolute disaster. But what’s important is that I look like the middle class from the outside. The concept of retirement is a complete joke. I’ll retire the day before I die.

      • Kenneth C. Fingeret

        Hello Jim in Texas,

        I am sorry to hear your story but as you are aware the rest of the US with a tiny minority will be in your shoes sometime in the future. As to your plan to retire the day before you die I see a slightly different outcome. It won’t be a retirement until the day after you die. As long as our “governing system” stays about the same there is no chance for the greater majority of people in the US to make drastic changes to make everyone here have a decent life.

    • I can’t help but wonder why after 25 years you were still working… sounds like you were making decent money, surely you had put enough away to be financially independent

      • Jeff Dahl

        Are you kidding me? Look at the numbers of how many of us middle class were living paycheck to paycheck. I will give it a try to explain it to you… Then maybe you can use your 20/20 hindsight to tell me where I went wrong with my American dream… Because in my world, Just when our kids were ready to move out and things finally started looking up, and I could have started really socking it away, our economy crashed and burned… Then to make matters worse, instead of letting our country work its way out naturally, our economy has been heavily propped up so our first black president did not look like the total failure he is. You see, I was piling every little extra I had trying to pay my down my debt and pay off my house, While everybody else was out there double mortgaging their house and buying all sorts of stupid stuff. But, to me, that was my investment in my future, pay it off, move to something nicer and rent it out for income for my retirement. I bought it for $70K in ’94, It was appraised at $240K in 2005 and I would be lucky to get $65K now… I made my choices and have lived with them, but married and 3 kids, what might seem like decent money was paycheck to paycheck for a family of 5… hell my insurance was over $500 a month alone… That is over 6K or 10% off the top of $60K (pretax dollars) Only reason we survived this was because I was not in over my head, besides monthly bills, the only payment I had was my house payment, other than that, if I could not buy it with cash, we did not have it, I never made payments on a car or owned anything less than 10 years old. Over 25 years, my chosen career went through 2 different recessions where I was out of work for a couple years each time and I went and fueled airplanes one time for $5 an hour instead of sucking off the government, the second time I went self employed for the first time, and managed somehow to keep food on the table and the lights on. Yes, I managed to have 30K, when the collapse happened and for paycheck to paycheck life we lived, I always thought that was pretty good, Now 7 years later, that’s gone and am running out of stuff to sell. When this happened I figured it would be at least 5 years, knowing the overbuilt situation Phoenix was in. There is drawing work in other parts of the country, it may be time to give up on Phoenix, find a job somewhere else, sell the house and move.

        • Asmodeus Mictian

          You had me until you drank the kool-aid with “…so our first black president did not look like the total failure he is.”

          I notice that you didn’t bother looking at all the years leading up to the collapse. So, the two unfunded wars, tax cuts for the rich and the repeal of the Glass-Stegall act had nothing to do with it? You might want to check your facts. It wasn’t the ‘first black’ ANYTHING that helped ruin your life. It was uncompromising, unapologetic greed and the purchasing of our law making body that did it. It might be easier for you to just blame a single guy, but the facts simply don’t pan out for that to be true.

          I’m 39, in college, and have a family of four. I am ‘that guy’ who makes $10/hr working full time. The ‘benefit’ package my job offers? Yeah, that would take about 2/3 of my total income for the month, so Medicaid it is. As the article states, I’ll make around $20k this year…*poverty* level for my family is just over $25,500.

          Riddle me this :
          If everyone keeps telling us to ‘get a better job’, where are these better jobs? I’m working full time and going to college, so I’m putting in ~60-70 hours a week WITHOUT spending time with my family. I don’t blame the President, he didn’t have anything to do with GETTING US HERE… Blame the politicians and ‘business’ people whose greed and ignorance set up the situation that got us here.

          • Asmodeus Mictian


            That party that got elected promising jobs? Yeah, they’ve not even submitted ONE jobs related bill the entire time Obama has been president. They’ve done nothing but screw over everyone who isn’t rich and then blamed the poor for ‘having’ to do it. They’re traitorous, lying, backstabbing thieves and con men, and the American public (combined with a good bit of Gerrymandering.) has ensured that they’re around to f**k up this country for as long as possible. Does the country need to literally collapse before anyone realizes what’s happening?

          • Jeff Dahl

            His failure is in his economic policies… He came in promising hope and change… I never believed him, but the people that believed him most and voted for him, have been hurt the most… google black unemployment rate… You did hear what those black protesters in Ferguson were yelling right? I surely was not Obama is #1… Jobs bill? what the hell is that? Government does not create jobs… All the government needs to do is get the hell out of the way, instead of continual new regulations and requirements making it harder and harder to start and succeed in a new business.
            Our Economy could not get going because businesses would not hire people because of the looming implementation of Obamacare, they did not know what it was going to cost them in the future to employ them so they made due with what they had.
            I have a friend that voted for Obama and now is whining that he only got a 50 cent raise in the past year. He is making $17/hr doing telephone support for appliance repair. I tried to explain to him, he may only see 50 cents extra in his check, but he probably costs his employer an extra $1.50 that he does not even realize (in higher taxes and insurance etc.) but he is ready to quit because he thinks there are all kinds of opportunities now that will pay him more. I suggested he tried to line something up first just in case things aren’t as rosey as he believes.
            My old boss used to sit my down at review time and spell all that out for me, so I knew not only what I was making, but what I was costing him to employ me. That $30 an hour I was getting paid, after holiday pay, vacation time, health & unemployment insurance, his half of social security, etc, etc etc. actually cost him over $50 an hour which is why my time was billed out at $65… if I worked overtime, he just broke even. That last 1/hr raise he gave me to $30 in 2006 cost him $3 an hour more.
            What are you doing that only pays $10 an hour full time? Not judging, just curious? As I could go probably find full time work now drawing, but at maybe 12-15/hr as that is all that is out there now, a few entry level jobs… and nobody really wants to hire me, instead of an entry level guy because they know I would probably leave sooner than the entry level guy would. Not to mention, retrain me to their way, instead of teaching a new guy how they want it done…
            I have one son that is 24 that did not graduate high school, now working as a mechanic at $17/hr and his older brother who went to tech school after high school is only making $21/hr also as a mechanic, but also runs the shop too half the time. For their experience levels and what they can do, that is not nearly enough of a difference in pay, A lot of that was because of minimum wage increases… The company had to pay all their part time guys that clean up and are just starting out and learning a trade, more and more and not get anything extra for that money spent, then they did not have the money left to pay the more skilled guys what they were really worth and still keep the doors open.
            The country is literally headed for collapse with 18 trillion in debt. Who is it trying to get it under control and stop raising the debt ceiling and being excoriated for it?

          • Jeff Dahl

            1)The housing crash was because of a lot of stuff implemented by different administrations, way before George Bush was in office
            2)George Bush was NOT a fiscal conservative
            3)To me this is not a Republican/Democrat thing… Washington is broken, meaning it does not work anything like our founding fathers designed it to work when they wrote the constitution.
            4)Did I say my life was ruined? I was providing a snapshot of what has happened to our economy from my point of view, not complaining about it. I have probably been the happiest I have ever been since I am no longer working my life away. I have had some damn good quality time with my wife and kids… Luckily I had reduced my debt to where I can afford to live on the $1000 a month I am making… or else I would go find a part time job to supplement my self employed income or even another full time job.
            5)Personally, I wish the first black president would have been successful in something other than destroying our country… I was supporting Herman Caine instead of Obama… Racial tensions seem higher now that ever before!
            6)I am concerned about our countries future for my children and grandchildren… not myself!

        • Brent Slensker

          “our economy has been heavily propped up ” I can’t WAIT to ask you to explain what the heck you mean there!?

          • Jeff Dahl

            0% interest rates for the past 7 years and continually printing money… look into it, it is what has been happening.

  • Tamera Morrison

    The obvious solution is to make all jobs good paying jobs. We need cashiers, clerks, food servers, etc. There is absolutely no reason for those people, who are doing an honest day’s work, to be paid less than so called “professionals”, other than corporate greed.

    • Crayven

      Lol are you delusional?
      There is no need for cashiers, clerks or food servers either.
      MACHINES can replace your ass, son.

      And there WILL BE NO MORE “jobs”.
      The era of “jobs” and “growth” as you understand it is coming to an end. What we need is more expansive ideas.

      • Carl_Herman

        Like a resource-based economy which can demonstrate just as public sidewalks, fire department, and storm drains are best provided for all, our technology makes it more cost-efficient and beautiful to provide all human economic needs (housing, food, water, health care, education) for all who want them as we transition to robotics doing as much work as we can free humans from. See these videos:

      • ThePar

        100% correct.

        Also, that unemployment figure that is “going down,” (so say some reports lately) doesn’t account for disability.

        There are entire cities where, when the factories closed, only fast-food and retail remained. So, the workers ended up on federally-funded disability.

        States even HIRE companies to reach out to state-funded welfare recipients and CONVINCE them they have a disability, arrange medical appointments and get them on disability.
        I’m not even kidding:

        What happens for capitalism when its currency (employment) vanishes in less than a few decades?
        We’re about to find out.

        • TimO22

          thanks for posting that video.

        • Apul_MadeeqAoud

          I take fabulous photos as a photographer that I already don’t make a living wage on, but the arts is perhaps the last sanctuary from the robotic onslaught.

          • ThePar

            Well, image filters like on Instagram are making point-and-shoot more competitive for you, I’d argue. Especially with all the hipsters glorifying cheap cell phone pics these days.

            (Just playing devils advocate. I’m also an amateur photographer, albeit just a crop censor Canon and a couple L-series lenses.)

          • Malby

            Everybody thinks they’re an artist. Your choice, of course, but no whining.

          • hereNT
          • Apul_MadeeqAoud

            Those images are awful. Most computer generated music and other art is equally crap. On the other hand, a lot of modern music ostensibly created by humans is also crap.

          • onsightit

            Don’t be so sure. AI is already producing better art and much faster.

          • Mccandle

            AI “art” is like cubic zirconia diamonds. Synthetic. Not what I would consider art.

        • Kenneth C. Fingeret

          Hello ThePar,

          “Also, that unemployment figure that is “going down,” (so say some reports lately)” are totally bullshit. The numbers have been juked for decades. Unemployment has been defined that a person is out of work for less than six months. After six months that person is now magically employed. After a while those who can’t get a job are now considered not looking for work and are not considered even in the job market.

          • U3 Unemployment is defined that way, U6 however is not… the numbers haven’t been fixed, it’s working as intended

          • ThePar

            You’re absolutely right. I wasn’t trying to say there aren’t more significant problems with the unemployment measurement. For simplicity, I was referencing the NPR article which I highly recommend giving a listen.


      • Duke

        Basic income guarantee. BIG idea..

      • E McArthur

        Then there will be a need for people to maintain those machines

        • Crayven

          For now….

      • DisentAgain

        Adorable. You sound just like the 19th century factory barons. They were wrong too.

        • Crayven

          Numbers don’t lie.
          And you can’t stop progress either.

          The era of jobs is coming to an end.
          Unless there is a global war of course…

          • DisentAgain

            Except the “numbers” don’t predict the “end of jobs”. You are just making that up in your head.

    • Malby

      Sure, Tamera, keep smoking what you’re smoking. One reason that professionals get paid more is the 5-10 years additional schooling they invest in and the fact that a new high school grad can’t treat cancer but CAN be a clerk or cashier.

    • Tamera, ins’t the fact that you want people to be paid more for doing less work than other people “greedy” in itself? What you have to understand is that people who earn more in an economy don’t earn more because they are greedy. They earn more because their skills are more valuable and/or more productive to their employers

      As a business owner, one cannot pay cafeteria personnel $75,00 a year for warming up and serving food and also pay $75,000a year to an engineer that designed or develops products, that produce revenue, simply because some people think it is “unfair”. “Wages” in the real world are determined by productivity. In other words, how much money you earn is directly correlate to how much value you provide to your employer. BUT, remember that your employer is in business to make a profit!

      Just like you work to “make money”. Your employer is in business to “make money”, as well.

      You should check out my podcast on iTunes, New Class Rising. I break down these kinds of topics and specifically discuss how you can become more valuable and make more income for yourself in today’s age.

      • gunslinger53

        No one is asking for 75,000 a year to serve food, but the value of that job has dropped as opposed to the uppper management or executive who’s job pay has increased by 700% and the only way to justify their increase is to decrease spending and that means devaluing semi-skilled or no skilled jobs and the only way companies can do this is because the job market is flooded with applicates…when there are more jobs than workers companies have no choice but to raise wages to attract workers to fill those jobs…when you have over 100 million people looking for jobs it will take several new job markets to offset the employers advantage…

        • no, you know what has dropped in value? The purchasing power of the currency that those people who work in cafeterias earn and therefore people like yourself are finding it harder and harder to keep head above water in this economy that is only producing a downsized standard of living. BUT don;t blame capitalism for that because entrepreneur, those who CREATE THE JOB MARKETS you indicated with need (and I agree with you here – what we need is more capitalism) don’t control the money supply. You know, who does control the money supply? The Federal Reserve Bank, and in the last 7 years they have created TRILLIONS -over $4 TRILLION in new money that did no exist before to bail out all of their CRONIES in the big banks! If you want to blame someone for the poor suffering more today because they have to work more or longer to make their money go further, blame the government because they are the one’s who have taxed, borrowed and inflated your currency away.

          • LongtimeDetroitdriver

            “Entrepreneurs” don’t create jobs or job markets. Jobs and job markets are created by DEMAND FOR GOODS AND SERVICES. Entrepreneurs organize businesses that service those demands.

            Demand for goods and services is created by people who have needs and wants, and MONEY TO SPEND seeking to satisfy those needs and wants.

            The less money people have in their pockets, the less they have to spend creating a demand for goods and services. THAT is the downward spiral we seem to be in now. Raising the minimum wage puts money into the pockets of people who are likely to spend most of it quickly and locally, satisfying their needs and wants, thus creating a demand for goods and services, which creates jobs that will put money into the pockets of MORE people who will spend quickly and locally. That is a positive economic spiral.

            I tend to agree that government bears a large share of the responsibility for our current economic malaise, but not for the same reasons. Government has been bought by, and serves the interests of, the very “big bank cronies” who benefited from the “too big to fail” bailouts. THEY are the primary drivers of our economic collapse.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, for proof of what you’re claiming, just look at Venezuela today. All sorts of “demand” there…and the people – quite literally – have fistfuls and fistfuls of money “in their pockets”. And gosh knows the Venezuelan government doesn’t go out of it’s way to serve what you style as the “big interests” down there. And the economy of Venezuela is just chugging along on that basis, isn’t it? [smile]

            Here’s a suggestion, “Long”…pull your head out of the sand and take a look around at the economic reality that surrounds you.

          • LongtimeDetroitdriver

            What does life in Venezuela have to do with a discussion of an article about the American economy and American middle-class?

          • Ken_Meyer


            For someone with your obvious relationship (or rather
            lack thereof) with reality, probably not much of anything. I’m sure a
            reasonable person reading your post, however – and the claims you made in
            it – would quickly get the connection. I.e. – That your assertion of…

            “‘Entrepreneurs’ don’t create jobs or job markets. Jobs and job markets
            are created by DEMAND FOR GOODS AND SERVICES. Entrepreneurs organize
            businesses that service those demands.”

            ….represents almost EXACTLY the course chosen by said government of Venezuela.

            Now, maybe you WANT our country to go down that path to perdition. Most reasonable people, however, would like the citizens of this country to continue to be able to buy toilet paper, diapers, beer, and the like.

            And *THAT* is what “life in Venezuela” has to do with it.

          • LongtimeDetroitdriver

            You’ve obviously never had any kind of education about economics. There needs to be a demand before supply can produce any kind of commerce.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, and that’s why at business schools they still DON’T teach about Fred Smith CREATING a demand for a service where none existed before which he, in turn, hoped to deliver when he started FedEx.

            That’s about got it, doesn’t it? Right on “bright guy”! [grin!]

            Again, why don’t you move to someplace like Venezuela and see what your claims lead to if believed. Or, of course, in lieu of that, get your head out of your ass and take a look around you to see how the world REALLY behaves. A little awareness might do you some good.

          • LongtimeDetroitdriver

            Fred Smith didn’t CREATE a demand for package delivery services out of thin air. There has always BEEN a demand for that service. Here in the U.S., the Postal Service used to perform that service. FedEx and UPS have merely taken over part of a PREVIOUSLY EXISTING service industry, as new competitors often do.

            I’ve given you the benefit of doubt in your previous replies, but the deliberate ignorance and bad attitude you keep showing makes me think that you’re just another troll. Clean up your act or this is the last reply you’ll get.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! Prior to the coming of FedEx, the Postal Service provided – and extensively advertised – nationwide, overnight air delivery service. Got it! Funny, however, that when they put their first air hub in, it POSTDATED FedEx’s – and UPS’s – by more than a decade. Weird, ‘eh? [cackle] And even today, the USPS’s “overnight” stuff flies on FedEx and UPS aircraft. Weirder still!

            Again, get you head out of your _ss, “Long”…there’s a whole world out there you seem to be unfamiliar with.

            As for “ignorance”, I’ve spent a career in the industry in question. Just how much experience and “knowledge” do you have in it and of it? [grin!]

          • REALLY?

            You’re telling me you can demand an iPhone before its even created?

            You demanded a TESLA before Elon Musk every created one? Like, you told him “I DEMAND a Tesla go build one”?

            You demanded the specific clothing, shoes, electronics and everything else before they were ever built?

            No, you see, you cannot demand a product or a service until an entrepreneur makes it available for your to demand.

            DEMAND is created by people who have money to spend, I’ll give you that one, BUT, how the hell did they get the money to spend in the first place EINSTEIN?!

            They had to have had a job to PRODUCE SOMETHING FIRST, right?

            Ahhh….. I think we’re getting somewhere.

            No, you know what raising the minimum wage does… Yes, it put more money into the pockets of SOME people, but it take money out of the POCKETS of many other because they will have no jobs.

            By the way, the FEDERAL RESERVE is responsible for all he economic misallocation of resources, all of the imbalances of the market and for the even bigger looming economic collapse. Please go to and learn more about economics from the Austrian perspective. It explains why we are in the economic rut we are in today.

          • LongtimeDetroitdriver

            Your examples are mere variations on existing themes.

            The iPhone is a latecomer to the idea of portable communications. The WWII “walkie taklie” fulfilled the U.S. Army’s want and need for portable radio communications. From there, the path to the iPhone has just been a matter of “make it lighter, make it smaller, make it work longer, make it do more than just voice…”

            The Tesla is a latecomer to the idea of an automobile. The idea of replacing draft animals with steam engines, internal combustion engines, or electric motors, goes back to the 19th and 20th centuries. Gasoline-powered automobiles won out over the battery technology available back then, but the idea of using electric motors never died out.

            New types of clothing and shoes are just fashion. Fashions evolve over time, but reflect nothing essentially different in people’s need and want for products that protect their bodies from the elements and sharp objects on the ground.

            Money/wealth is created by labor, which originated with hunter/gatherers collecting edible vegetation and killing game animals with hand-made spears and other simple hand-made tools. Their JOBS did not come from any entrepreneurs, because there were no entrepreneurs back then, EINSTEIN. Cash economies and entrepreneurs developed gradually from that origin.

            Your faulty arguments haven’t given me any reason to follow your suggestion about wasting time on your ideas about the Federal Reserve or the Austrian perspective.

          • gunslinger53

            Not sure where you’re getting your information, the only administration to print money without the gold to back it was Reagan, which might be why we are feeling the back lash now, but a third of this nations wealth is being held in offshore tax havens right now, that’s almost 30 trillion not being taxed and the majority is from defense contractors, this is also a bocklash from the Reagan administration…as far as the rest of your statement goes, I was not blaming capitalism, I’m not blaming anyone, but there are people being taken advantage of and programs being manipulated…for example, General Dollar’s CEO’s make in the neighborhood of 22 million while no in store worker makes over 400 a week, when over 70% of their revenue comes from food stamp sells and that’s just one of many stores using this practice…

      • The problem, Hector, is that businesses (other than yours, apparently) are bringing in 3x, 4x+ what they were 10 years ago, and instead of passing that increased earnings on to the people that are doing the work, it is going into their bank accounts (or those of their investors).

        The problem being that they actually can afford to pay that cafeteria worker $75,000 because they are earning $125,000 off that person being there… but why should they if they don’t have to?

        • You must not own a business and not understand how managing a business actually works. It’s not as simple as saying oh yeah, you make $125K off of that cafeteria person and now you pocket the remaining difference.

          Did you know that businessmen and women actually have to reinvest money into their businesses so that they can keep the lights on and keep paying their employees now and in the future regardless of whether the business is profitable or not?

          Did you know that businessmen and women have to also put money aside to pay taxes on profit? What about restocking products? What about paying rents? What about paying for utilities? etc.

          I think the problem with your logic is that when you think of BUSINESS, you’re thinking on BIG BUSINESS and your neglecting (or completely just don’t understand apparently) that small businesses, who don’t have investors, are the ones that produce 80% of all the jobs in this country. And trust me, those businesses are not pulling in 3x, 4x or 5x in profits like you claim they are.

          What you ,apparently , don’t know is that net new small businesses creation in negative and that small businesses in this country are actually on the decline.

          • hereNT

            80%? Where do you get that number? It’s much closer to 50%. Most small businesses don’t even have *employees* in the US.


            And our current system where large employers can get by with offering obscenely low wages works to drive the overall market wages down while siphoning off a lot of the available money in the economy. They also directly compete with those same small businesses. So there not as many people that can afford to go to Joe’s Corner Grocery vs Walmart, squeezing those smaller businesses until they eventually have to close. Which then hurts the local economy even more. You may get wages, but the investment in the community is not there, and often the larger retailers are given tax breaks and other incentives which hurt the local government’s revenue as well.

            A good compromise might be to allow exemptions to minimum wages for business under a certain amount of employees.

          • I went back to check but you’re actually somewhat right. Net new job creation by small business is actually closer to 63%.


            Still the bulk of the jobs.

          • hereNT

            63% of all *new* jobs, not 63% of all jobs. That report that you linked to actually has the distinction, and notes that it’s around 50% of the total jobs:

            “According to U.S. Census Bureau data, employer firms with fewer than 500 workers employed 48.5 percent of private sector payrolls in 2011, and employer firms with fewer than 100 workers employed 34.5 percent, and those with less than 20 workers employed 17.9 percent.”

            The reason for the higher number of new jobs is because there are more small businesses starting. Most of them don’t start at 500+ employees.

            So a large company could employ 100 people, but not need to make any *new* positions in a year. A small business might expand 2 or 3 employees at a time, and have more need to bring in new people than the larger corporations.

            They’re also more likely to fail. It seems like a lot of different numbers are cited in a quick search, but it looks like at least 50% of them aren’t around five years after starting. So not very stable jobs.

            One has to wonder how much of that failure rate is because of a skewed playing field where the larger employers get propped up even though they’re already viable and profitable.

      • RHytonen

        THAT is totally reality-denying bullshit. In this society, those who take and have the most do the least work. And that not only needs to be changed drastically and suddenly, and just as short-term “RUTHLESSLY” and “UNFAIRLY” as what brought it about; but reclaimed and compensated, to reverse the effects of a long history of criminal thievery and oppression by the undeservedly powerful.

        • You referring to those in government, right? Lol Because those are the only one’s who oppress people.

      • RHytonen

        There is also no rationale for the existence of “PROFIT” – most certainly not as a human right or a legally protected one in society.

        • There is absolutely a rationale for the existence of profit. If you understood ECONOMICS and basic human psychology then you would know that we live in a world of scarce resources and one in which humans have needs and desires. Within those scarce resources are people called entrepreneurs who are willing to risk their own money in an effort to organize those scarce resources as efficiently as possible and to bring finished goods to those people in the market who have needs and wants. However, there has to be an incentive for these entrepreneurs to bring those goods to the market for people like you to consume. PROFIT is the BEST market indicator that we have to tell us that what that entrepreneur is producing is actually desirable by the market. It means people value that product or that service more than the money that they hold in their pockets because they are willing to voluntarily exchange that money for said product. Guess what? If that entrepreneur is not producing something the market wants, he guess bust. BUT without PROFIT we have no way of telling whether that entrepreneur is doing good or bad by using up scarce resources. You sound to me like someone who is left-leaning. If that is the case, then you should be FOR PROFITS! Knowing what you know now about profits, how else would an entrepreneur know if chopping down trees to continue to produce pencils is desirable or if people instead prefer to type letters digitally, similarly to how we are writing to each other right now.

          Does that seem rational enough for you to accept the profit motive in business?

          • Crayven

            So by your logic it is perfectly moraly justified to get all the water and sell it to you at 1000$ a bottle.
            Hey if there is demand who cares?

            Other the fact that….you DIE without but hey “free market” and all that crap.

          • Again! Seriously! You just keep demonstrating that your are an economically inept lowlife so let me school you on this a bit/ btw – this will be the last thing I respond to you about. I don;t have time for your ignorance and idiotic logic.

            The PROFIT motive in the FREE-MARKET would never allow any business to sell water at $100 a bottle, EINSTEIN, especially if you are selling water to the poor.

            Want to take a shot at guessing why? …. never mind, don’t hurt yourself thinking.

            You see, buddy, if big greedy companies sell bottled water at $100 a bottle and no one buys it because they can’t afford it, the big greedy companies make no money and don;t get to be greedy anymore.

            Seriously, you think businesses would collect every ounce of water in the world and sell it to people at $100 a bottle. Dude, seriously. Go get a job so you know how the real world works.


          • Ashley Johnson

            Ever heard of price gouging? Lol.

          • DisentAgain

            You have a child’s view of markets. One with no concept of externalities, nor human motivation. It’s adorable.

            Profit is only valid if fairly shared with the labor and infrastructure that enabled it. Any profit extracted that is not reinvested directly, or distributed *FULLY* to the labor is a threat to the economy.

      • Crayven

        Gotta love the brainwashing.
        What “products” do the bankers make that gives them 700 times the average income?

        What “indispensable” function do CEOs and shareholders have to be paid bn of $?

    • marxmarv

      “Jobs” are for eager slaves only. If you’re human, perhaps you really want a “livelihood” and have been indoctrinated to believe “jobs” provide such a thing.

      • You must be living the wilderness, hunt all of your food, grow all of your crops, make all of your own close, purify all of your drinking water, make your own shoes, manufactured the computer and or mobile device you used to read this article and leave this comment? Why don’t you move to Cuba if you love Marx so much? I hear it is a Marxist wonderland over there. You have no idea how beautiful of a thing capitalism is and it is the only reason you have enough time to be able to sit down, read this article and leave a comment, because the alternative is you’re out ensuring your survival. smh.

        • SandyShores

          “You have no idea how beautiful of a thing capitalism is…”

          I had to log in to congratulate you, because I really can’t stop laughing at the absolute garbage you keep typing in this thread.

          Keep riding capitalism’s dick, we totally believe you. /end sarcasm

          • You must be part of the 51% of Americans earning $30K per year. I get your frustration. I would be mad too if I was so inept that I did not have the mental capacity to earn more, but I know that deep down you know I’m right and you have no other argument. If that were not the case, you would not have resorted to insult me and would have instead put forth an logical economic explanation for your ideas, but you cannot. Good thing is that it sounds like you live in America buddy, you can always keep trying to earn more. 🙂 You can continue to be angry if you want., I’ll continue to enjoy capitalism because it isn;t going anywhere anytime soon! 🙂

          • SandyShores

            ^ This is what happens when you cut funding to education folks. You get guys like this who think we’re actually living under a capitalist system.

          • What system are we living in, Sandy?

          • Tannenhouser

            I’m not Sandy. However…… we live in a corporate system which is run by profit prophets who would have us believe greed and profit before people is the path to enlightenment. AKA fascist. With a light veneer of democracy. Why would you ask? Or was it a rhetorical ? Good Day.

        • Crayven

          “How beautiful of a thing capitalism is”

          • Yeah it sucks to not have much ambition! You’re probably poor too and don’t want to do nothing about it, which is why you probably spend all day watching cartoons. smh.

        • DisentAgain

          Or just, you know – fair profit sharing. Because profit not reinvested or paid to labor is *theft*.

          You went right to “go live in the woods” and skipped right over “share profits fairly with labor”. I wonder why that is?

          • When you get a job, you are not working for profits. Sorry to burst your bubble. You are working for a WAGE!!! If you want to be a part of those evil, oh so evil, people that earn profits, you can do so by becoming an INVESTOR and putting capital (money) down to become a Shareholder OR you can start your own business, BUT you are not not going to risk your own MONEY to earn profits, why do you think you deserve them.

            If you think that as an employee you deserve PROFITS when the company is doing well, are you also going to take LOSSES when the company loses money?

            Think for a second before you respond.

            Jesus Christ! I have never come across so many economically challenged people in one article in my life!

          • DisentAgain

            “When you get a job, you are not working for profits.”

            That’s my point, Einstein. Labor *is* the investor too, they just get robbed of fair profit in a wage system. *ALL* profit not reinvested or distributed to the labor/investor is *theft*.

            And yes – profit sharing is also loss sharing – that’s the whole point. Wage labor is nearing an end – and full profit sharing is the only way forward.

            It’s like you’ve never heard of profit sharing. You might want to learn the *slightest* bit about labor markets and economics before critiquing others on the subject.

            Or you cold just keep proudly and loudly showing your ignorance… whatever works for you.

          • “That’s my point, Einstein. Labor *is* the investor too, they just get robbed of fair profit in a wage system. *ALL* profit not reinvested or distributed to the labor/investor is *theft*.”

            You have concocted a perverse idea of what the wage system is vs what the profit system is and you don;t understand either. You are thinking too philosophically into this and it really is not that hard. Labor means yo work and you get paid for that labor performed. Investor means you risk capital for a higher return. That higher return comes in the for of profit. There really not much else to it.
            “And yes – profit sharing is also loss sharing – that’s the whole point. Wage labor is nearing an end – and full profit sharing is the only way forward.”

            Not sure where you live bud, but you need to get out quick and go make some money. You’re living in a world of scarcity and there is pure abundance out there. Profit sharing still exists today, it’s called a Bonus, but you have to be living in Colorado or Washington (smoking some Shizz) to think that a profit sharing compensation system is the only way forward. That idea is almost laughable, but I actually feel for you. There is abundance out there my friend. Go and get it. Don’t wait for someone to come give you what you want.

          • DisentAgain

            So you’re a broke sheep who like to be taken advantage of. Got it! Keep it up, your type will always be in demand.

            Wages are done in the next few decades if we still want a consumer class and a growth based economy. They never should have been used as a system in the first place. Allowing corporations to hoard profit while keeping employees on public aid is theft, it can not continue.

            “There is pure abundance out there. ” Absolutely. But if you are getting paid wages without profit sharing, you are not getting your fair share – regardless of the salary. Very revealing that you’d be ok not getting paid what your labor is worth.

          • I never said ” go live in the woods”. You misquoted me. Go back and “try” to understand my comment.

    • Stevie Nichts

      “The obvious solution is to make all jobs good paying jobs. ”

      Bet you’re gonna vote for Bernie, huh? You economic illiterates need each other.

    • Ken_Meyer


      If there’s “absolutely no reason” why these people shouldn’t “be paid less than so called ‘professionals'”, then why don’t YOU – and I mean *YOU PERSONALLY* – do the paying?

      I’m betting that you’ll come up with a reason right quickly as to how it can’t be done when it comes to YOU doing it….and that you’ll pretty quickly demonstrate that it’s real easy for “gimme, gimme” artists like yourself to hang about on the sidelines demanding that OTHERS make the significant contributions to the betterment of the “cashiers, clerks, food servers, etc”…but when it comes to making such a contribution YOURSELF, then it’s another story entirely.

      How about, Tamera? Do *YOU* stand to make good for the wages there’s “absolutely no reason” shouldn’t be less than those of “professional”? [smile]

    • jr565

      But a salary is based on what worth you bring to the company, not what requirements you need to live. If you don’t like the salary, you have the option to not take the job.

      • Crayven

        And starve lol.

        Hey you are to get another job….that pays the same…also there are no jobs but don’t let reality wake you up from your bullshit spewing inane babble.

      • DisentAgain

        “But a salary is based on what worth you bring to the company..” No. Wrong on every level – and an utter misunderstanding of labor markets in the US. Salary is based on the *lowest possible amount a company can get away with paying you*. In no way is it a measure of worth, value, or skill. That’s it. Corporate growth and profit motive *always* drives wages as low as it can. It’s not merit based in any way.

        • Ken_Meyer


          MARKET value, guy…not what YOU think the “value” should be, but rather what employers are actually willing to pay for labor on market-based competitive basis.

          If wages actually ARE “too low” – as opposed to what guys like you THINK are “too low” – then a worker by definition has the opportunity to go elsewhere for the higher wages that are offered there. If he CAN’T find an entity willing to pay him a higher wage for his labor elsewhere, then that would seem like a damn good indication that he IS being paid on the basis of the value of his labor.

          Now you may not like that fact, but a fact it is. And to claim that it is “In no way is it a measure of worth, value, or skill” is absolute B.S. In truth, it’s the ONLY way to fairly value labor.

          • DisentAgain

            Wow. Way to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of economics and labor markets. Again – profit and growth incentive drives wages *down*, not up. Workers have no choices because it is a market wide driver. It spans industries. Look at the data.

            If your company could pay you zero, they would – regardless of your worth or actual value in return on profit. You have no control, input, or relevance in that calculation. Your wages are simply a measure of “as close to zero as we can get away with right now”.

            Please at least learn the basics of economics before pretending to have an informed point of view.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! Seems like you have it all figured out, don’t ya’ guy? [smile…”look at the data”]

            You have a good one…and make sure you don’t spare us those constant refrains of “gimme, gimme” as well,OK?!

          • DisentAgain

            Ken – you are adorable. To busy foaming at the mouth about imaginary “takers” to understand that strong social programs are proven to *improve* the economy. You mock data and things we know to be working – classic.

            Keep up the weird paranoia and blaming poor people, though. It’s super-helpful.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, guess you’re right again, aren’t ya’? After all, it’s been “proven to *improve* the economy”, hasn’t it? After all, just look at how well those “strong social programs” have worked out in terms of “improving” the economies of Cuba. And Venezuela. And the old Albania…..etc., etc. Real “proof” there, right? [cackle]

            Again, have a good one. And you make damn sure that the economic neccessities of balancing supply and demand don’t interfere with that little dream world you occupy, ya’ hear? [lst “smile”]

          • DisentAgain

            Are Cuba and Venezuela at the top of the prosperity index? Can you at least try to keep up?

            Again. Look at the most successful and prosperous countries on the planet (I recommend the Legatum index, but feel free to find another). Find one – just one – that has weak social programs and no anti-poverty measures. Where is this “let them die” utopia of yours?

            I’ll wait.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Funny, I thought it was YOU who said….

            “To busy foaming at the mouth about imaginary “takers” to understand that
            strong social programs are proven to *improve* the economy”

            So what is it? Do “strong social programs improve the economy”? Or don’t they? And what does Cuba and Venezuela not being at the top of the “prosperity index” have to do with anything EXCEPT to demonstrate that your claim that “strong social programs are proven to *improve* the economy” is merely more of your bullsh_t?

            Sorry, Sport…but it’s not my fault that you tried to pass B.S. and got caught. You said it, guy…like it or not.

            That said, got any more such “proof” hanging around, do ya’? [smile]

          • DisentAgain

            Again – find me a successful country with weak social programs. You made the claim. *MY* claim is supported by every single country more prosperous than the US. Every country on the top of the prosperity list takes better care of the poor than we do, charges more tax *and* still has better opportunity…

            Prove your claim. Where is your idea succeeding?

          • Ken_Meyer


            Take a look at the list, Sport; read it (at and weep. And then on the list of the top 10 – and everything BELOW the U.S.’s position – name the one’s of comparable size, population, and ethic/racial diversity that are as “prosperous” . Name a whole bunch, can ya’? [snicker]

            Here’s another list, if you’ve got the guts to read it.


            Note that both lists are for the year 2015.

            In short, spare me your B.S.

          • DisentAgain

            I said *successful* not “rich”. You know – prosperity? That second list isn’t even data driven – it’s fiction.

            Here’s an actual methodology:

            Now sit down, kitten, before you hurt yourself. Next time try some actual data.

          • Ken_Meyer


            And one wonders why you chose to use 2014 data, instead of the 2015 (as I pointedly used above). Real mystery, isn’t it? ]smile]

            That said, this has grown tedious. You want the last word, then take it. And, as always, have a good one!

          • DisentAgain

            No mystery at all – you provided *no* data to support your case, and I gave you the most recent study from Legatum. You know there are social democracies on your lists too, right?

            Are you even going to try to prove your point, or just keep making mine for me?

          • Ken_Meyer


            Actually, if you’d taken the time to actually LOOK at the data I provided instead of just bullsh-tting, you might have noticed that it used the EXACT SAME SOURCE AS THE DATA YOU PROVIDED LATER, namely the Legatum Institute. Note the sentence referencing the source of the data in the link I provided, to wit: “Using the Prosperity Index released by Legatum Institute…” Then notice that your link gives as it’s data source the “THE 2014 LEGATUM PROSPERITY INDEX TABLE RANKINGS”. See the difference? I do; i.e. – I provided a link FIRST that referenced CURRENT (2015) data, while you responded with the same SOURCE using a previous NON-current year. Again, real “mystery” there, ‘eh? [cackle]

            So, point in fact, you did NOT give me “the most recent study from Legatum”. Instead *I* provided YOU with that…while you LIED about providing it. Now THAT’S something we haven’t come to expect, isn’t it? [smile]

            Don’t worry, although I don’t know any, I’m sure there are some folks out there who actually appreciate having dishonest “knowledge” brokers like you around. Meanwhile, I don’t see much point in wasting any further time on a person of your peculiar “character”.

            Have a good one….and adios.

          • DisentAgain

            What are you, 10? The Legatum 2015 data *HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED IN TOTAL*. You provided a *partial* dataset that proved *my point*, and an irrelevant opinion article. Are you drunk or just that lazy?

            Now I ask you again… Why are social democracies the ones leading the prosperity index? Where is your conservative utopia at the top of a prosperity index.

            This time, try doing the work, and taking some personal responsibility for your claims.

          • Tannenhouser

            Ken. No offense, however you are a serious TROLL. Do you really have nothing better to do that claim another belongs to the ‘gimme gimme’ tribe just because they advocate that those among us who have OBSENELY more than most GIVE back more? Your claim that Dissent won’t pay more out of his own pocket is not only disingenuous but rather silly considering we all pay through our taxes. People like you and the beliefes you propose are truth ARE and CONTINUE to be a MAJORITY part of the problem. Have you really nothing better to do than exercise your contrarian silliness in an anonymous format. I bet you would never talk face to face in such a manner. Good Day.

          • Ken_Meyer


            So I take it that YOU as well aren’t willing or able to do what those “among us” (rather among YOU) are demanding that others do in your place? Big surprise!

            Sorry, but from my perspective, the “big part of the problem” is that there are parasites like you who are constantly demanding that OTHERS carry the burden for them….others who are ALREADY carrying more than their fair share of society’s weight. And would I tell you that directly to your face? Unless you’ve financed, created, and maintained the levels of employment of the entities that you’re disparaging, then DAMN RIGHT I WOULD!

            As I see it, no one has the right criticize others who are consistently doing more than they are. Obviously you see things differently….which pretty much defines the “gimme, gimme” attitude, as I see it.

            Oh, by the way, referencing my point about how close to HALF of American households pay NO Federal income tax at all, do you consider it “rather silly” to keep that fact in mind when assessing the situation? That jive with your “we all”, does it? And are *YOU* willing to make up for that near-half of “we all” that DOESN’T pay…WITHOUT demanding that others do it in your place?

            Yeah…right! [smile]

          • Tannenhouser

            Yep TOTAL troll. Just an angry lil man child, throwing a temper. No where in my reply to you did I demand anything from you, just posted observable and demonstrable truths (we all pay tax) You go prepubesent tantrum style putting words in my mouth attributing meanings to my words that only a deranged lunatic would, and argue against, observable and demonstrable truths with your make beliefs. Every single thing about your posts is just CONfused, CONvoluted and inCONsiderate drivel. Hope you realize you reap what you sow, must be why you get so much negative attention. I don’t feed known/proved trolls. Good bye and good day.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! While you, yourself, are a paragon of virtue, particularly qualified to make blind value judgements on your betters, while pontificating over those you’ve applied such judgements to, aren’t ya’? And what the heck…. who could POSSIBLY dispute those “observable and demonstrable truths” you mentioned, either?! [grin!]

            Have a good day yourself..and here’s hoping that you don’t get your shorts tied up in TOO much of a bunch! After all, it’s never a pretty sight when a pompous ass finds himself encumbered in such a fashion.

  • Christy Golden

    Then what happens to incentive, Tamera?

    • Gaia

      Christy – could you explain what you mean by “incentive”.. thank you <3

      • Malby

        Economics 101. You should have studied it.

        • Gaia

          Gosh. That’s rude. I was asking Christy to explain what she meant by it Malby.

        • Gaia

          Don’t be rude, please. I was asking Christy – thank you.

  • Alexandre Philbert

    Stop having so many kids and we wouldn’t be having this problem

    • Carl_Herman

      You have it backwards, Alexandre. When people have enough, they have fewer kids; proven by historical data in each and every case. See for yourself:

      • Alexandre Philbert

        I’m saying people shouldn’t have kids if they can’t afford them; and even if they can afford them, we’re already overpopulated. (Edited)

        • Juan Martinez

          You realize that people can’t not afford to have kids. Eventually they will get old and need folks to take care of them. The problem is that people are not able to take care of kids at all. They will not be able to replace themselves in the workforce. And as far as overpopulation goes, do you think we have reached a Malthusian Catastrophe type of situation? Because we are on our way. But if we have less people, we will have less folks working on situations to solve the problem. Things like more sustainable energy or space exploration.

          • Alexandre Philbert

            People who don’t have kids will save money while they are capable of working to live the rest of their lives comfortably. Having “more people” on the issue isn’t a solution since we have so many unemployed people already.

          • Malby

            That is some crazy gibberish.

        • Carl_Herman

          Ok, you should read the documentation I provided as someone who worked on this topic with two UN summits for heads of state. I mean, if you’re curious to know. Ending poverty is the way to best empower people’s best rational choices with how many children they have. This reduces population growth.

          • Alexandre Philbert

            “[…] when families are confident that their children will survive, families have fewer children.” .. so what when they think their children will die they have more?

      • Malby

        Because they’re better educated.

    • ClubToTheHead

      Free birth control on demand.

    • SandyShores

      Overpopulation is the 800lb gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about.

    • hereNT

      If only there wasn’t a vocal minority in this country trying to restrict access to birth control and abortion services…

  • Birdland Hustle

    How about we stop thinking of ourselves as units of production? How about we redress our perception of what “a living” is?
    We are so trapped in our identity as worker bees that instead of seeing our advances technologically as a means for us all to work less thus ushering in a next stage of human development .. We cower for fear our owners will throw us away…????
    We either stop being passive spectators living for one purchase at a time or very very soon we may in fact see a SOILENT GREEN style dystopia… Capitalism has failed
    Google “THE VENUS PROJECt” and lets all start living more and fearing less

  • Justin

    I think what would help a lot of people is if they had any sort of personal finance education. I am part of that 51% that makes less than $30k a year and budgeting and personal finance education has taught me so much about how money management is important. Investing, debt management, and budgeting are all things that should be mandatory education for personal finance.

    • Emmandaline

      I am disappointed that this discussion has deteriorated to idle political bickering. As a millennial, I find nothing on this thread of practical value. No wonder our country is suffering.

  • Donnie D Steves

    You know I find this funny people talk about the kids my generation are having but you know my mother had 2 kids. But at the same time she is 1 of 13 siblings her father was one of 12 siblings and his father was one of 15 so if you want to talk bout over population and stop having kids no what we really need is for no offense and all respect given but the older generations need to retire and allow for more of us to get jobs and be able to support our families

    • Malby

      Retire on what, exactly? I do agree that stopping having so kids makes sense.

    • Jim in Texas

      I am 62 years old. If I retired today, I have enough savings to live on for less than one year. People my age had our life savings destroyed by the global financial crisis, the great recession, and periods of unemployment. I would LOVE to take you up on your offer.

      • Ya know, I keep hearing that, but the dow decreased 40%… and has since tripled… I don’t know that you can use that as an excuse anymore when even if you invested every penny you had the year before it crashed, you’d still have above-average returns today.

  • John Titor

    See, the people with the money need to stop keeping their own purse strings so tightly drawn that nothing trickles down to the rest of us. Historically speaking this mentality of “fuck the poor” has not ended well for anybody, and the parallels between both the French, and Bolshevik revolutions are becoming more, and more uncanny by the day.

    • Malby

      Yes, a revolution is imminent. No question.

      • Why are the police being militarised so aggressively: precisely to deal with this eventuality.

        • Kenneth C. Fingeret

          Hello Bruce Taylor,

          What is worse is the military will be the occupying force after the police stop supporting the government. After that the 1%’ers will rely on the mercenaries to protect them from the rest. The world wide count of mercenaries according to what I have read is over 40,000,000. That is a frightening number. I feel that some of the 1%’ers will get away with their crimes against humanity.

          • Indeed Kenneth, but the 1%’ers have got away with everything up till now & I see no reason why that should not continue. They own & operate politics & the judiciary.

          • RHytonen

            You’d be surprised how many ‘mercenaries’ one experienced, motivated, and resourceful person can sneak past. And don’t forget what the word ‘mercenary’ means.

        • Constitution First

          Oath Keepers. The cops and the military are your neighbors and brothers. They have sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Remind them If necessary. But I think you will find, they will make the right decision when the SHTF.

          • Kassi Pressgrove

            I pray they do.

          • Proteios

            I agree. Now factor in the loss of cultural identity through immigration overload. Hostile immigrants also factored in. When the authority adopts the usual us vs. them mentality that we are all starting to feel, as we lose our cultural norms…well, Im not sure that they wouldnt put down any instability. Because the most likely insurrection wont come from multi-generational americans.

          • DisentAgain

            “Now factor in the loss of cultural identity” – non-sense. No such thing.

          • Proteios

            You may want to review that. Cultural identity is the paradigm put forth by everything from the black movements, to subjugated populations, reactions of local populations to colonialism and today with anyone marginalized. I recommend looking into it before rejecting even the slightest challenge to your preconceived notions.

          • DisentAgain

            Oh I understand the term – but to imply that America has a monolithic or valuable cultural identity that is being lost via immigration is absurd.

          • onsightit

            Wacko, fascists blame their problems on immigrants. The “revolution” is happening on the Internet and at the polls. A simple search on “Bernie Sanders” is all the evidence I need to see this.

          • gylangirl

            Bernie will disappoint just like Obama and Clinton.
            There is no politician that is not corrupted and two-faced.

            Electing an insider savior is a widespread delusion and a diversion from the required revolutionary work.

          • Sharon Reddy

            You don’t want to fix it, just blow something up and you’ve got nothing to put in its place. Show me a constitution, or a manifesto with a plan for the future. Even anarchists have presented those, read Chomsky’s. He’s got some real good points on the change of labor and decentralization of community management. Form a co-op or a commune. Prepare to feed yourself.

          • Proteios

            THe left and right blame their problems on ANYONE…except themselves. I get that. But to look at immigration, or any issue, and associate absolutely no problems is just to intellectually naïve for me. I have no problem with immigration. But I think its regulation is useful to minimize the bad, while amplifying the good. Hence, taking it easy and not being overwhelmed as the EU appears to be.
            But blissful ignorance is nice too. I expect that’s what people look to Bernie Sanders for. He doesn’t offer much else except the illusion of change.

          • Sharon Reddy

            You are so right.

          • stephenverchinski

            They are also.part of the problem. There are fewer peacekeepers and more military and cops.

          • twerkules

            They are nothing more than domestic military. They are not here to protect the common person, they are here to protect the property of the rich.

          • eagle keeper

            So what happens the day after we upset the apple cart? Will doing something so drastic actually help or solve anything? Example of this is Furgeson Mo. Those businesses that were destroyed had nothing to do with what happened. and yet they decided to destroy and loot. For what purpose? Pants up, don’t loot?? Other than protecting one’s property or family, is there really a good reason for a SHTF event in the first place???

      • lol… a revolution… staged by whom exactly? You can’t even get 90% of American’s to get off their recliners… why would they revolt when they’re life is so kushy?

        • Bratista

          Not to mention drones have changed the game

          • Kyle

            You can’t have a violent revolution today that would succeed. It probably would have the exact opposite effect.

        • Folwart

          Not only that but neighbors barely talk to each other, people have their cliques and they have a lot more reasons (shitty ones maybe) that will prevent them from working together. The cognitive dissonance is strong in these people. It’s unfortunate that they will end up not getting it until they are knee deep in shit. I estimate generously that 70% of people will essentially be the enemy in a survival scenario either because they are simply selfish or because they are that stupid and incapable of seeing past their neighbor liking the Bears and voting Republican.

          • Cyr3n

            A wierd thing happened after the last Recession. There was this fever pitch propaganda about how Subprime loans were taken out by those who couldn’t afford it and they’re walking away from their homes and costing the country billions. Also unemployment soared and the propaganda focused on hipsters on food stamps.. Millennials with cellphones and cars, living in trendy neighborhoods paying for vegan sausages with food stamps.

            So you see.. Pundits likes to choose scapegoats out of populations most affected by the policies of bankers and corporations. You might as well be a Syrian immigrant because you’re not paying for a PSA on public radio .. Therefore you don’t have a say.

            Whenever the public focus seems to be on a particular group of citizens, you really need to pull back the curtains and see who’s benefitting from demonizing them. They’re scared as hell that the public will stop blaming each other and start demanding real answers from the de-regulators that engineered this mess.

      • mscheaf

        No it isn’t. People in this country are too stupid and lazy and have the attention span of a fruit fly. As long as they have their 90 inch Visio TVs from Walmart they are happy. Hell, half the population treats the mega rich like gods

    • Ken_Meyer

      No, the people who are demanding that OTHERS “open their…purse strings” need to make some money THEMSELVES and then open up THEIR purse strings. It’s damned easy to demand that the OTHER guy do the contributing….but I doubt that the “gimme, gimme” artists of this world are willing to make anything in the way of a significant contribution themselves.

      How about it, John? Are YOU going to open up YOUR “purse strings” and make a SIGNIFICANT contribution to the economic betterment of the poor YOURSELF? Or are you just going to stand on the sidelines, constantly demanding that OTHERS do it?

      • hereNT

        We are opening our purse strings now, because of the fact that many of the largest corporations in the US pay so little that their employees need public subsidies. That doesn’t mean we’re supporting the people getting the welfare, that means we’re supporting the parasites at the top.

        If a company is so focused on profit for their shareholders and owners that they do not pay a living wage, then yes they should open their purse strings. Or go out of business.

        • Ken_Meyer


          Who’s this “we” you’re speaking of? Since close to half of the nation’s households pay NO Federal income tax at all – and guess just which political persuasion THAT half tends to come from! [smile] – I don’t see where “we” – as in you and others like you – are doing much in the way of opening up YOUR purse strings at all, particularly relative to the very real “purse string openings” of those entities the author is disparaging.

          Beyond that, I resent this “we’re supporting the parasites at the job” crap, in that if those “parasites” did NOT offer the jobs they do, then do you think that they people that thus LOST their employment are going to be better off? And once they’re unemployed – with NOTHING coming in! – are people like you and the author going to create and finance the productive entities that would employ them? Much chance of that happening in any significant way, do you think? [grin!] Stand ready to offer a few million jobs on your OWN hook, are ya’ “hereNT”? [cackle]

          As for this “go out of business” crap, once again you seem to be one of those who is insinuating that NOTHING is better than “something”. What kind of philosophy is that, given that you and those like you are NOT contributing viable alternatives yourselves? The economic concept of “zero today, but twice as much tomorrow”, perhaps?

          Sorry, but this pie-in-the-sky “the other guy needs to do it” attitude of the “gimme, gimme” crowd kind of gets to me. Essentially, they don’t contribute a damned thing themselves, but are constantly demanding that those entities that are ALREADY doing much more than they would ever even dream of attempting do still more.

          • hereNT

            You seem to think I’m getting entitlements or in that lower half. I paid around 30K in income taxes last year. Not exactly poverty. I did grow up poor, though, and have known several people that have gone through bouts of poverty who needed a helping hand to get out from it.

            I don’t begrudge them at all for needing that. Though I am a bit disgusted by the fact that the system is rigged so that once someone barely gets their head above water using the life vest we, as a society, give them, that support is yanked away causing them to slip back shortly after.

            As far as what I do to help, well, my business isn’t to the point that I can have more than a sole proprietorship. So, no, I’m not offering millions of jobs like wal-mart. (Wouldn’t be caught dead shopping there, either.) What I do do is to spend my money at local businesses as much as possible. Usually ones where they actually employ or are owned by people I know, and that pay workers fairly. It costs more, but that’s OK with me.

            I already have to support big business enough with my taxes. You say half of the US doesn’t pay income taxes, well, that’s federal. And it doesn’t count for the fact that those people are often paying payroll and sales taxes.

            And the thing is, a lot of corporations, some making money hand over foot, are not paying taxes. Or their being given tax breaks and sometimes free land, a whole host of benefits to come in and remove those small businesses that were contributing to the economy. It’s backfired in many places.

            Something vs nothing is a bit of a stretch. Do you think that WalMart with it’s few million jobs is going to go out of business if their profit margin goes down a bit? Is their bottom line more important than our tax dollars? We literally subsidize their workforce.

            Should we be happy with this arrangement? Should the workers say “Crumbs are great, thank you masters for these crumbs!” and then the rest of us say “Woah, awesome, you are paying crumbs, let me give you my bread, so you can eat it and pass along the crumbs!”

            And what if they do go out of business? Shouldn’t that just open up a path for companies that are now at a more even playing field without a multinational corporation subsidized with our tax dollars siphoning off wealth from their community?

          • DisentAgain

            So – the problem is… poor people? Really? Are you really suggesting that those who cant pay taxes should be the ones actually paying taxes? Wow. Way to solve all of our problems. It’s so simple. Just make the working poor foot the bill – not those squeezing profit from their backs.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, I’m suggesting that those NOT paying taxes SHOULD be paying taxes instead of constantly demanding that OTHERS pay twice as much in taxes to support their dead-beat butts.

            Radical concept, isn’t it? I.e. – that people pay their OWN way! Gosh, if implemented, it might threaten the whole concept of “gimme, gimme”!

            On the other hand, “Disent”, here’s an idea; if YOU don’t like the idea of pushing the poor to support themselves, then why don’t *YOU* – and I mean YOU PERSONALLY – take it upon YOURSELF to support them…and “get off the backs” of those who are ALREADY doing immeasurably more than the likes of you in terms of making available to “the poor” their EXISTING means of employment, and providing for the maintenance of the government. That would “solve all of *our* problems”, would it? [smile]

            How’s about it, “Disent”? You up for it? Or are you yet ANOTHER one of those who’s real good at screaming “gimme, gimme”…but when it comes to making a significant contribution YOURSELF is found wanting?

          • DisentAgain

            The poor *can’t* pay their own way. That’s the point. If they could, they would not be poor.

            I *do * support anti-poverty measures personally, because I know unmanaged poverty costs us all more and drags our economy down. Strong social welfare programs *help our economy* and make us *all* more prosperous. That’s what you keep missing.

            There is no such thing as a “gimmegimme” so-called dependency culture – its a myth. The vast majority of the poor in this country *work*. That’s also what you miss. The “lazy welfare queen” story is irrelevant and has nothing to do with our society.

            Look at the data – every country leading prosperity indexes, and has knows this has active social welfare programs *more aggressive* than ours. The result? More entrepreneurship, more social mobility, happier – healthier people and more stable economies.

            Try more data, and less bias.

          • Ken_Meyer


            No one is trying to discourage YOU from supporting “anti-poverty measures personally”. What is resented is your demanding that OTHERS be coerced into bending to YOUR will and submitting to financing what YOU want financed….particularly when those you’re making the demands on are ALREADY doing vastly more than you, yourself.

            With that in mind, just how many thousands of workers do YOU – and, again, that means YOU PERSONALLY – employ at non-poverty wages? A whole slew of ’em, perhaps? [grin !]

            As for your claiming that [t]here is no such thing as a “gimmegimme” so-called dependency culture”, I suggest you take a look at YOUR OWN POSTS as an on-target demonstration that such a “culture” DOES exist!

            As for “data”, you been taking a look at that “data” lately, have ya’? For example, the unemployment rates in Scandinavia? The decline of the Canadian Loonie? The status of minorities in those “leading prosperity indexes” and such? Bottom line is that I HAVE “tr[ied] more data”…and the data leads me to believe that pie-in-the-sky “gimme, gimme” artists such as yourself will claim just about anything and everything in order to justify your demands that OTHERS do what you’re either unwilling or unable to do themselves.

            You want others to do the dirty work for you. I get that. We’ll ALWAYS have parasites among us. That, however, does NOT mean that we have to like ’em!

          • DisentAgain

            No one is coercing you to do anything. If you are a citizen, you pay your taxes. It’s not coercion – it’s the value exchange. You buy your way into this societies benefit by participating. You participate by paying taxes. It’s how you get all of the infrastructure you take advantage of.

            At median income levels the average American pays less than $30 a year in taxes for *all* welfare programs. Thirty dollars.

            You don’t want to pay your fair share. I get it.

            You are the only one looking for a free ride here. You want the economic benefit, but don’t want to pay for it.

          • Ken_Meyer


            H.m.m.m.m… “no one is coercing [me]”. That means I DON’T have to pay….that right? [smile]

            Sorry, “Disent”, but I don’t mind paying my FAIR share at all; I just resent being forced to pair the “share” of parasites like YOU.

            You see, I’m not looking for a “free ride” at all. I simply want to enjoy the ride that *I* have ALREADY PAID FOR……WITHOUT being forced to carry the “gimme, gimme” artists like you along the way. With that in mind, the only “economic benefit” I’m looking for is TO GET THE PARASITES LIKE YOU – and your “thirty dollars” [smile – that more “data”, is it?] – OFF MY BACK!

            I’d ask you if that sounds like a plan…but I think you and I both know that, when it comes to demanding that OTHERS do the contributing – as in financing, creating, and maintaining jobs – it’s something you’re real “good” at; it’s only when someone comes to expect YOU to make the contribution in terms of financing, creating, and maintaining of such jobs that you’re found lacking.

            Big surprise, ‘eh?

          • DisentAgain

            ~$30.00 a year is not “carrying” anyone. It’s an investment in poverty reduction that you *gain* from. Poverty is like pollution. If you let it propagate unmanaged it will destroy your economy.

            The thing you keep ignoring is that we *all* pay for poverty regardless of social programs. If we eliminated welfare, you *still* pay for poor people because of their drag on the economy. Welfare makes it cheaper, and give you more for your dollar.

            You want to pay more – and get less. You make no sense.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Gosh, for a guy who “make[s] no sense”, you’ve sure seem to have devoted a lot of effort in trying to evade what I’ve had to say….or, more to the point, the questions I’ve posed as to why YOU aren’t pulling the load! And it seems that along the way, you’ve had to take several contrary turns with your “story” as well. Real surprise again, ‘eh? [smile]

            With that in mind, I think I’ll let you pontificate on your own for while. As always, have a good one!

          • DisentAgain

            Evade? Evade what? Make a single rational point. Just one. I dare you.

            Or yo can just keep blaming poor people for you being a crappy person with a warped world view. that works..

          • kerrielou

            Ken_Meyer What exactly are you proposing to fix the economy? I pay plenty of taxes, but I can still understand that when 50% of the population is barely making enough to get by the entire economy suffers. If people cannot afford to buy goods and services that hurts business. Do you think it’s acceptable that Wal-Mart trains their employees to get on SNAP, which they spend at Wal-Mart? Do you think it’s acceptable for them to only give their employees enough hours that they do not qualify for benefits? You seem to be screaming at everyone to pay more taxes, but how can they if there are no jobs and they already can’t make ends meet? You can’t collect money from people who have none. You can be angry about it, but if they don’t have it, they don’t have it. Maybe we should raise taxes on the poor and then throw them in prison when they can’t pay. That way those of us who can afford to pay taxes can pay to house them in prisons.

            You’re all bent out of shape with your random capitalized words, but you offer no solutions beyond pretending that jobs that don’t exist exist. Screaming at people to get jobs that don’t exist isn’t going to magically create jobs just because you’re angry. Furthermore, most of these .01%’s were born with money. Yes, they’ve made way more, but you know the saying you have to have money to make money? It’s true. No one knows exactly what Trump’s inheritance was, but it was somewhere between 40 and 200 million. Do you think his net worth would be so high today without that very hefty head start? He’s obviously a very talented businessman, but don’t delude yourself that the bulk of super the rich didn’t start out that way.

            If you want to know who’s leeching off government welfare, it’s the corporations. Corporations receive subsidies nearly twice the amount paid out in welfare. This is what is killing this country

          • Folwart

            Don’t waste your breath. He’s an illogical feminine minded speck, his hamster wheel will keep on spinning narrative after narrative because his fragile mind is desperately hanging onto the blue pill bullshit reality. You will never win an argument with these types, waste of breath, waste of ammo. Let him rot.

          • Tannenhouser

            It’s not its fault. The evil left decided to repair the bridge it lived under, and gave good jobs to poor people. Things that do not benefit itself directly are socialist plots to overthrow its social order of FUCK you get your own, blame other’s and absolve self of any responsibility for the society it pretends to be a valuable member of. Good Day

          • Folwart

            Indeed, authority without responsibilty equals tyrrany.

          • Crenando

            “An illogical feminine minded speck” And you are a worthless misogynist mongrel.

          • Folwart

            That’s a faulty assumption considering feminine and masculine mindedness has nothing to do with gender. It’s just a simple way to describe behavioral traits. Rationalizing in terms of logic is a more masculine trait, while rationalizing in terms of feelings is more feminine. You aren’t the first to blindly insult without asking questions, you won’t be the last. Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

          • Danny Richardson

            Just read all the comments here. Folwart and DisentAgain obviously for the win. @ Ken Myer; WTF! I was dumbfounded by your ridiculous arguments. I will say what the others where too polite to say. You are an ignorant primitive pig at the trough, living a sad pathetic life, clutch at your notes you fool, they’ll keep you warm.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! “Obviously” for the win”. [smile]

            Thanks for sharing your unique discernment ability with us! [cackle]

          • Emmandaline

            As a woman, I object to that. I can assure you the majority of “feminine minds” are still not that facile.

          • Folwart

            Then I offer my apologies, Miss E.

          • Crenando

            “H.m.m.m.m… “no one is coercing [me]”. That means I DON’T have to pay….that right? [smile]”

            Hahaha this fucking narcissistic piece of shit troll thinks anyone cares about his charming wit.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Based on your multiple responses, obviously *YOU* aren’t one of those who “cares about [my] charming wit”, are ya’?! [cackle]

            Have a good one…

          • Folwart

            You are working against those trying to solve this problem. Your kind are a symptom that will disappear when the problem is solved. When we’re knee deep in shit the government and corporations aren’t going to give a fuck about you, don’t ask the people for help. You’ve made your bed, better be ready to lay in it.

          • Folwart

            Don’t worry. We’ll be making a contribution. Somebody has to stand up and fight for what is right. Just sit back on your recliner and watch the show big mouth.

          • Ken_Meyer


            “stand up and fight for what is right”? You got to be kidding, “right”? Demanding that OTHERS make the contribution isn’t “fighting”; it’s simply functioning as a parasite. Those that are “sitting in the recliner” are NOT the ones who create, finance, and maintain jobs…but rather those deadbeats who keep demanding MORE of those who are ALREADY contributing while, in relative terms, they’re doing virtually NOTHING themselves.

            Perhaps I’m wrong, however. Just what type of “contribution” are YOU making “Folwart”? Just how many tens of thousands of workers are YOU employing? Ready to show nasty entities like Wal-Mart “what for”, are ya’ [grin…think we all know the answer to that one, don’t we!]

          • Folwart

            I do my job and I do it well, I pay the over inflated taxes, I help the old lady carry her groceries up the stairs, and when the time comes to wrench liberty back out of the hands of tyrants I’ll gladly contribute punishment for trying to enslave me and mine.

          • Danny Richardson

            You seem to be arguing in another realm to whats being put forth, I believe your just trolling. Their has been no logical argument provided in anything you have written, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, they are worthless. “Have a good one”, Fen idiot…..

          • Ken_Meyer


            “No logical argument”, ‘eh? That something I ought to let up to YOU guys to provide? Been a lot of “logic” used by your crowd, has there? [cackle!].

            Sorry if you don’t like my opinions….but, frankly, I’m not about to “keep them to [myself]” simply at the “suggestion” of parasites who apparently haven’t anything – let alone anything better – to offer.

          • Danny Richardson

            Look ken, if I was your neighbor, I would be the first person to look after your pets while your away, put out your bin for you, empty your letter box, e.t.c. I know there are lots of people who have not succumb to the individualisation of their lifestyle’s and happy to help one another, a sense of community per se. Why do we not extend this to people we do not know? Seems to be a proximity issue for some. It maybe foreign to you to help strangers, but not to me and others here. Maybe you can include share, compassion, and other words of solidarity into your vocabulary? Ask yourself ken, what kind of world do you want to live in, Your world or mine? To choose the former would be to admit narcissism. Sorry to be cliché Ken but “people before profit” springs to mind. Maybe this is all just incomprehensible to you, I am starting to wonder if you are secretly donald trump!

          • Ken_Meyer


            It’s not “foreign” to me at all to help strangers. What *IS* “foreign is having strangers like YOU demanding that *I* (and others) be FORCED into bending to YOUR will and making contributions that they’re unwilling and/or unable to make themselves! Big, BIG difference!

            Don’t confuse the power grab people like you are after with charitable activities; they have NOTHING in common. As for the world I would like to live in, it would be one where private acts of charity are common….but were the pseudo “charitable” demands of parasites such as yourself are completely lacking.

            Your world? It’s one in which you demand that OTHERS do the work at your direction; you want absolutely NO responsibility for doing that “work” yourself.. In my world in turn, you’d have no place. If you’re only reason for existence is to keep screaming “gimme, gimme” over and over again at your betters, then who needs ya’?

            As for your “people before profit”…well, tell me; just how much ability to to service “people” are “people” like you going to have without the ability to generate that “profit” you minimize? Got a magic wand you’re ready to pass, do ya’? Right! [smile]

            Lastly, I’m no “Donald Trump”…but at least I’ll admit that Donald Trump provides thousands upon thousands of people with gainful employment. With that in mind, just how many jobs do *YOU* provide by way of comparison? After you’ve answered that question, think again about your “narcissism” comment…and take a good, long hard look in the mirror while doing so. A reasonable person would NOT like the image that’s staring back at him.

          • Danny Richardson

            Like I stated earlier, privilege is inherited along with poverty. Donald Trump inherited alot, just like all the greedy you refer to as job creators. Is this not obvious to you? You are seriously misinformed if you think privilege is earned, this is an American fallacy. You want a world where charity is common? Why? To boost the egos of the elite? I want a world where charity is not needed. You are lacking some fundamental knowledge, ill point you in the right direction. Watch “The Century of the self” (a series by the bbc) This will give you an insight to the manipulation of the masses to vote against their best interest, and how the corporations took over through the idea of individualism. It is begginer freindly and very insightful, then move onto something by Noam Chomsky. Then you can begin the journey of opening your mind. You may feel a tad guilty while doing this, and feel a strong desire to help others. It may seem strange at first, but once it settles you will finally find a true sense of accomplishment.
            You sure do imply alot about the people disagreeing with you and their backgrounds and you cannot seem to fathom someone helping another without gain. Therefore you keep stating this gimme gimme comment, which to be honest got old the first time. You give me 100 million and ill create some jobs, ill open a call centre, then a starbucks, perhaps a mcdonalds! Yes giving back to the community, what a joke. You keep going on about being a bigshot, what jobs do you “create” Ken? Oh and yes I almost forgot a mandatory gesture in square brackets for increased effect “[rolling eyes sarcastically]”

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah you’ll create jobs *IF* someone gives you 100 million….but you
            won’t do any such thing UNTIL someone “gives” you something, will ya’?

            In short, spare us the verbiage. Simple repetitious “gimme, gimme” demands will more than suffice for everything you have to say.

            Bye now!

          • Danny Richardson

            The means of production are inherited, good work missing every point provided to you. I suppose you would have had to have some logic to provide a counter, being ignorant and stubborn is just easier I suppose. I will now retire with the rest who gave up on you.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, they are ALWAYS “inherited”. No one ever originally used their OWN AMBITION, their OWN DRIVE, and their OWN EFFORT to create them! In retrospect, how could I be so ignorant as to think that some people actually WORKED to accomplish such things when, in actuality, all the “good” in this world has been provided by dead-beats such as yourself who sit on their parasitical asses making insistent “gimme, gimme” demands on others for what you’re too damn lazy to put an effort into accomplishing themselves?

            Real mystery that…and no doubt a colossal example of “ignorance” as well. Right! [smile]

            Now if only someone conceded to YOUR demand and GAVE you a “100 million”, ‘eh ? Then *YOU* would show ’em, wouldn’t ya’ “Danny”! [cackle[

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, they’re “inherited”. People didn’t ever show initiative and work hard to create those means, do they! Right! [smile]

            Spoken like a true “gimme, gimme” artist, “Danny”. Your kind will probably ALWAYS believe that it’s being “ignorant and stubborn” to think that people should EARN their way in this world, instead of demanding that others provide them with it gratis.

            As for “missing every point”? Hell, as far as I can see, you’ve only made one “point”; i.e. – that you expect OTHERS to subsidize your dead-beat ass. And, looking at your posts, I think you’ll have to agree that it would be a pretty hard point to miss.

            I have to ask; is it an expectation you “inherited”? [grin]

          • Peaceofus

            Your attitude is incredibly delusional. We live in a country where those that are doing okay are footing the bill to support those that are struggling while the well-to-do are not supporting anyone. Where the military takes up near 50% of our nation’s budget, but most of the country is poor. I don’t understand how you can even begin to believe your ideas are logical. “Take more from those with less to give.” majority of the wealth in the country is consolidated amongst very few people. Corporations gladly pay their workers so little that they need government assistance despite being employed. You’re delusional if you think that it’s poor people that are ruining the country. Your ideals are evil, malicious, delusional, baseless, irrational, and just flat wrong. You can try to argue that it’s the poor people that are ruining the country but you will be wrong, every time.

          • Ken_Meyer


            I’m not “delusional” to the extent that I’m unable to realize that people like YOU will never be “footing the bill”. How many thousands of jobs do YOU offer, “Peace”? What significant number of workers are YOU paying at a level that makes it possible for them not to “require government assistance”?

            In truth, it’s not the “poor people” per se that are “ruining the country”; rather, it’s the “gimme, gimme” artists such as YOURSELF who are constantly demanding that OTHERS make the contributions that they, themselves, are either unable or unwilling to make.

            Lastly, how can guys like you “take back” your livelihood? As far as I can tell, you never created or maintained it in the first place. So how are you going to “take” it “back”? Theft? Stealing what OTHERS have created, financed, and maintained? That the “sustainable” method you’re proposing? I.e. – putting forth the proposition that crime DOES pay?

            Want an example of what happens when clowns like you are allowed to follow that type of path? Well, look at what’s going on in Venezuela today. Better yet, go there yourself…because I think you’ll find out right quickly that “the rich” do NOT need you more than you need them…and that they’d get along right nicely without you. There is a reason, after all, that “the poor” are complaining today about employers taking their job opportunities elsewhere….and one can’t help but recognize that your view of “need” doesn’t jive with that economic reality.

          • Folwart

            You don’t even understand what you are arguing, fool. Your types won’t last long, not enough grey matter. If you don’t see what has become obvious by now, then you probably never will. You’re too sheltered, too naive. We’re not talking about people sitting on a few hundred thousand, or a couple million. We’re talking about those hoarding hundreds of millions, billions, we’re 5alking about the bankers and the magic money machine, and the people that act like they are doing a favor by creating a million minimum wage jobs. Wake the fuck up, or shut the fuck up, Sport. Seriously.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, “fools” like my type “won’t last long”, will we? We that in mind, you keep repeating the refrain Marx started spouting about economic imperatives a century and half ago, why don’t ya’? I.e. – constant assertions that those “fools” that DO contribute are going to disappear in order to make way for the parasites such as yourself who think they have the right to prosper on the basis of OTHER people’s efforts, Almost a certainty, isn’t it?

            After all, it’s ALREADY working so WELL in places like Venezuela and Cuba today, isn’t it? [smile]

          • Folwart

            You don’t contribute. You are delusional. You take Ken. Nobody that is truly successful, and I mean truly successful, gets there by being an honest upstanding individual. They lie, they fake, they pretend. I decided a long time ago that I would not be part of that lie because it compromised who I was and who I wanted to be.

            Keep telling yourself you do so much good. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong and you are one of the good ones. One of the good ones that thinks this is about them, when it’s not about the good ones. One of the good ones that naively thinks most of their peers are like them, but they aren’t. Most are self serving, from the top to the bottom. This infection doesn’t discriminate by class.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! “Nobody that is truly successful, and I mean truly successful, gets there by being an honest upstanding individual.” Got it! [grin!]

            Sorry “Folwart”, but just because YOU may “lie”, and “fake”, and “pretend” in order to be (what is by your lights) “successful” – and think that’s the only way to achieve such “success” – does NOT mean that everyone follows the same path.

            As for your “Who knows, maybe I’m wrong and you are one of the good ones.” there’s no “maybe” about it. The “gimme, gimme” crowd doesn’t make significant contribution in this world; instead they demand that OTHER people make it. And, by definition, it takes “successful” people to have the “success” that makes them able to offer jobs…yet, according to you that’s a BAD thing. Where’s the logic in that? Which means “where’s the logic in your “maybe”?

            Question, “Folwart”; who, in your estimation IS “do[ing]’ much good”? Those entities that have DESTROYED job opportunities like those oh-so-good unions? Or those hated “corporations” who offer and maintain the jobs which makes the existence of MILLIONS of workers and their families possible?

            Give that thought a long, hard “maybe” while you’re at it! [smile]

          • Folwart

            They are few and far between. Society is unraveling and this is just one aspect, we haven’t even touched on gynocentrism or the education system yet. I think you are too hung up on this idea of the “gimmegimmes”. Yes, we know they exist. If one can’t put in the work and maintain a respectable level of quality, they don’t want to eat bad enough and shoukd go hungry. We don’t have a right to exist and survive, our actions need to show it.

            You are correct that success has different meanings to different people. I should have specified financial success.

            You have a manipulative, irrational sort of argument style that I really do not appreciate. That’s what drove me to get your attention in the first place. You inject strawman arguments and presume to know what my beliefs are, interestingly you don’t seem to like the same treatment.

            I’m after solutions. Before solutions can be addressed we need to identify the symptoms, find their cause or causes and address those. Poor is a state, it’s a symptom. Depression is a symptom. Unmotivated is a symptom. Princess syndrom is a symptom. Millions of minimum wage jobs is a symptom. Blaming symptoms and the people they affect isn’t going to solve the problem. The rabbit hole runs deep, Ken, and I’m not all that convinces that you are prepared to accept and face reality. It’s an ugly world out there, evil is a real thing and it is winning. By not looking at the larger picture many folks are blindly aiding evil, it’s a sad state.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, you were “driven” to it. Right. grin!]

            Face it, Sport…you’re not after “solutions” unless OTHER people provide them. You’re not about to expend the effort, display the ambition, or run the risk of trying to implement such solutions YOURSELF; rather, you’re just going to continue with the “gimme, gimme” game….and offer only justifications for same.

            Which, of course, is what people like me “drove” you to do. [smile]

            If “society is unravelling”, then it’s because it’s beset by people such as yourself; people who are more than willing to TAKE from society, but are loath to make a significant contribution THEMSELVES to it in return. With that in mind, I suggest you take a look in the mirror and consider “the symptoms” that are reflected back at you.

            BTW, I *DO* consider “millions of minimum wage jobs” a problem, if only because the [so-called] “minimum wage” ITSELF is “a problem”; it’s an artifice that attempts to make those whose labor is more highly valued subsidize those whose labor is LESS valued, along with those who – far too often – don’t really want to exert much effort in their “labor” in the first place. Over the long term, such a “wage” (which it really isn’t) contributes only to inflation, benefits nobody, and effectively HURTS those on fixed incomes. Doubt it? Then why isn’t the “minimum wage” of 1963 a viable one today.

            In short, damn right it’s an “ugly world out there”…primarily because people like you have made it that way. And PLEASE don’t try to lecture me on economic “reality” when your posts have made it so blatantly clear that you have, at best, a fleeting acquaintanceship with it.

          • Folwart

            I have solutions. I’m waiting for you to catch up. You are still overly concerned with symptoms, when you can separate the symptoms from the causes we can talk solutions.

            I agree with your take on minimum wage. Raising it only served to help crush the middle class, because employers think that a higher minimum wage won’t result in employees, making a few dollars more, essentially taking a pay cut. Cause and effect. Critical thinking isn’t a common ability unfortunately.

            Again, you presume too much about me and my beliefs. You assume because I oppose you in part that I am the opposite of you in all things. You are attacking an idea, a preconceived notion or label that does not exist. If you want to address each of these different topics separately you may find that I don’t completely disagree with you. It’s a matter of perspective, friend. We are looking at this from two different points of reference, somewhere in the middle there is some commonality, for surely we both wold want a system that actually functions.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Whatever. This is growing tedious, probably for both of us. Have a good one.

          • David Adams

            The first thing we must do is eliminate the federal reserve. It is simply imposible to pay a back a loan (+interest) with morney which must be borrowed(+interest) from the original lender. Therefore until that situation is resolved any true financial progress is imposible.

          • Cyr3n

            So.. In LA right now..
            – You need 95k a year consistently to make your house payments.
            – Almost everyone who rents, pays around 48% of their wages in rent.. Not including Utils or food.
            – Even if you’re making 60-80k a year, after rent and your car lease payment, there’s not much disposable income to actually participate in the economy in a meaningful way.
            – odds are high that you’ll be rearended in a hit and run accident by an uninsured driver which will take you out of the labor force for a year with medical bills, car repairs, and only $2500 from your insurance company to pay for it (if you even had the foresight to get uninsured driver coverage).

          • Ken_Meyer

            Then DON’T LIVE IN LA!!! Problem solved!

            There are NUMEROUS places in this country where “95K” is considered a rather exorbitant income..and even a fraction of that amount is deemed adequate to live decently on. With that in mind, it’s hard to sympathize with those who insist on locating themselves where costs are so high. Why should others subsidize THEIR ignorance/stupidity?

          • Cyr3n

            No not problem solved. If that’s your industry and career.. You’re not picking up from LA as a screenwriter and relocating to east-bumble-fudge Alaska. You’d only be moving to a new ecosystem with zero experience and zero connections and earning a low wage there.. Probably at $9/Hr in Walmart if you’re in a flyover state where they’re the largest employer.

            And you seem to be confused (senile) No one is subsidizing someone making 95k. The fact of the matter is people aren’t that mobile as evidenced by the grim statistic that this year, 53% of Americans are living on $30k a year or less and collecting social service benefits. We officially don’t have a middle class anymore.

            Why aren’t these bankers and politicians getting tossed into the streets? Or escorted via angry mob into a dumpster like they do in the Ukraine.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Again, no one is FORCING you to live in L.A., OR to be a screenwriter! That’s your CHOICE…and there’s no reason that OTHERS should be held responsible for the choice that YOU made.

            Look, if you want to claim that you (or others) can’t be “mobile”, then go right ahead. As you might be aware, however, this country was pretty much based on the fact that its inhabitants WERE “mobile” (which I suspect accounts to a large degree for the high population of western cities like L.A.)…and thus many people are ready to call “bullsh_t” on such a flimsy claim. And, on that basis, AGAIN let me emphasize that there’s little sympathy available for such folks who won’t accept personal responsibility.

            You’ve expressed some bias toward the “flyover” states as you call them. Be aware that those who make decent livings in such locales rather resent blokes like you claiming that you can’t make it because there aren’t “screenwriter” jobs (or whatever) available beyond your little corner of the corral. And you might also be aware that people in such states ARE getting reasonably by living on “30K” and LESS – perhaps even on Wal-Mart wages – and look on people like you as parasites of the first degree.

            Lastly, as to those bankers and politicians you refer to, while in many case I agree with your assessment, you might want to recognize that your dead-beat “screenwriter” ass depends on such folks to enable what isn’t really an activity essential to the nation’s economy. Lot of “middle class” financing made available to produce screen productions, is there?

            Get you head out of the sand, “Cyr3n”. There’s a whole world out there. If you can’t make it as a screenwriter, then try something else…but DON’T expect the rest of the world to subsidize your miserable butt because you’re unwilling to take the risks and make the efforts that others make day in and day out.

          • Cyr3n

            youre a complete jackass for assuming people working in film production in LA havent lived in many other places around the world. thanks also for the strawman argument assuming im somehow a “deadbeat screenwriter”. keep it classy moron.

            media is an essential part of the military industrial complex. even the belief you hold that somehow personal responsibity alone will “boot-strap” the Great Unwashed into some dickensian bourgoise lifestyle.. is part of someone elses propaganda plan.

            no one (in another state) is subsidizing anyone in california because CA has one of the world’s largest GDPs. our tax dollars go to support red states in the middle of the country that have been robbed blind by institutions supported by corruption.

            the numbers are in.. the bankers need to be rounded up and charged for the fraudulent loans theyve been making and the politicians protecting them need to be exposed and expunged.

          • Ken_Meyer


            I think I’m correct that someone who’s complaining about the situation he’s involved in in L.A. *NOW* is also NOT living elsewhere *NOW*. Again, that’s a matter of choice….a choice which I don’t think is my responsibility to subsidize (regardless of the “media” being….”an essential part of the military industrial complex” and all! [grin]

            Look, it you think it’s “inhumane” for an individual to suffer because of choices HE made, then, instead of demanding to be subsidized yourself, why don’t YOU get off your ass and jump up to volunteer to subsidize those similarly situated I.e. – show YOUR “humanity”. After all, no one is forcing YOU to pay “suppressed wages”, are they? Meaning you can RAISE them to whatever level YOU are willing to pay. With that in mind, you ARE paying a significant number of workers their wages, aren’t ya’? [smile]

            Anyway, “yeah”, I guess I’m “completely crazy” for expecting people to be look after for their OWN well-being! After all, what rational person could ever believe that individuals ought to be responsible for THEMSELVES! The very idea is outright lunacy, isn’t it! [cackle]

            Say it loud and say it “proud” Cyr3n; “gimme, gimme”. We expect nothing less (nor more) from the likes of you.

          • Cyr3n

            Once again, your strawman argument about how I don’t personally employ people is false. I have a successful business that doesn’t resort to slave labor and generates meaningful work for around 75 people each year. I also volunteer with friends on a regular basis and have compassion for blue collar workers and underemployed creatives. This may be hard for you to follow since your only observable output seems to be making wild claims about people’s personal lives based on geographic info only. Good luck with that.

            I don’t know why you think it’s funny or somehow appropriate to debase people in a different line of work than you. It seems like the majority of people with your mentality are fine with “starving artists” .. And now that we have starving scientists, starving engineers, and starving computer programmers.. You still cling to the belief that it’s all due to personal responsibility. you need to get your head checked.

            It’s not my style to engage with people dealing with their own demons. You seem to be a lonely person to be lashing out at everyone online for attention. So it’s with great sympathy that I leave you to your thoughts and hope you have a better Christmas/Chaunnukah/Festivus in the upcoming weeks.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, “it’s not [your] style”. Right! [smile]

            In any case, you STILL seem to be going out of your way to justify YOUR choices and why OTHERS need to subsidize you in some form or another because those choices didn’t work out as you think they should. Here’s an idea; why don’t you take your business to some OTHER locale where the cost-of-living is easier? What? Too difficult? Can’t be done in the business you’re in? What? There some LAW that denies you the ability to follow another course, is there? [grin]

            And, while you’re at it, why don’t you offer a REASONABLE alternative to the offerings of those you’re apparently denigrating? And there I’m sorry; employing a measly 75 workers (if you’re even telling the truth about that which, frankly, I doubt) isn’t going to cut it. You hit 10,000 or so, THEN maybe you’ve got a reason to bitch about the society you’ve chosen to live in, and which, as far as I can tell, you’re making a minimal contribution to.

            Again, it’s YOUR choices. YOU made them. If you don’t like the results of those choices, then I suggest you look in the mirror at YOURSELF and spare the rest of us what are essentially “gimme, gimme” demands.

            Sound like a plan?

          • Cyr3n

            Once again, you senile old fool, no one subsidizes me. and no I can definitely make observations about what’s going on around me whether I employ 5,20,75, or 10k employees because I have the right to free speech which wasn’t granted by you. I don’t need your lame permission to tell other people what’s actually going on.

            You’ve never once in this thread even contributed any solutions or valuable insight into what life is like in your sector. You’re nothing but a sniveling troll with wild-eyed fantasies about who the true takers in our society are.

            The numbers don’t lie. Any growth in GDP and increased productivity our workers had contributed did not result in higher pay or promotions. The CEOs pocketed the money and pilfered their workers 401ks. Time and time again the middle class is getting screwed. follow the money and you’ll know who’s taking it all.

          • Ken_Meyer


            This “senile old fool” is prompted to say that, while you certainly don’t need “permission” to “tell other people what’s actually going on”, you WOULD have to actually have some “knowledge” of what’s “going on” yourself to perform such an action. And there you seem to be woefully unequipped, don’t ya’ “Cyr3n”?

            Again, if you want to change things, then YOU go ahead and change things. YOU hire the workers, be responsible for the product, and for paying the level of wages that YOU think workers should be paid. There’s not a thing in the world stopping you….except for your own arrogance and lack of ambition and ability. Not a thing.

            Meanwhile, my suggestion is that you quit demanding that OTHERS do what you’re unwilling and/or unable to do YOURSELF!

            As for my not contributing any “solutions”….well, beyond trying to kick societal dead-beats like you to the curb, perhaps you’re right. Then again, unlike you, I can look in the mirror secure in knowing that the individual whose image is staring back at me IS NOT THE PROBLEM ITSELF!

            I’ve been following the situation in Venezuela fairly closely lately…and I can’t help but think of the rock-stubborn Chavista crowd when reading your comments here. They, too, blamed the “CEOs” and such for everything. Then they got the chance to kick their “CEO’s” in the butts down there…and look what it got them. That’s the “contribution” people like you make; take a wealthy society in which there’s a measure of economic inequality and bring EVERYONE down to a low level. Great way of getting rid of “inequality”, isn’t it? [smile]

            Anyway, sorry that you’re so resentful of your betters. But it’s not my fault that you are what are. Unfortunately, that’s a problem YOU are going to have to come terms with all by your lonesome.

          • Cyr3n

            Oh Poor Kenny.. So cranky and irrelevant. If you’d only married that dame, you’d have grandchildren to torment at the dinner table. Alas, you’re a sad sack of dissappointment no one ever deemed worthy of breeding with so you spend your days&nights trying to make other people prove their worthiness to you. but you know.. you’re always right Kenny because you’re a man of principle .. Even if that principle is looking like a jackass on the Internet. Good on you.

          • Ken_Meyer


            If you say so, Sport! After all, it’s not like *YOU* could be wrong now, is it? [cackle]

            Have a good one!

          • Cyr3n

            I’m sure your flyover state social experiment is lovely this time of year! Stay over there! hahaha

          • Crenando

            ” those hated “corporations” who offer and maintain the jobs which makes the existence of MILLIONS of workers and their families possible HAHAHAHAHAHA you worthless apologist piece of shit can’t even comprehend of a world that isn’t exploited by capitalists, you are disgusting, try reading a single history book.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Gosh, who would have thought that you had the “intellect” to advance your position with such a “substantive” response! Congrats! [smile]

            Have a good one!

          • poodlekiss1922

            Actually Cuba has a highly educated population, low unemployment, and a strong GDP. Not a good argument. As capitalists we are conditioned to hate communism but their economy is strong, their budget is balanced, and their public universities are free.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! No doubt that’s why that nation is being inundated with would-be immigrants…..and why it’s citizens aren’t tempted by opportunities to reside in less-regulated, more capitalist societies. After all, people just LOVE passing their existence under the shadow of a tyranny, don’t they?!

            Noticed a lot of people willing to risk their lives on the high seas in less than seaworthy craft in attempts to enter INTO Cuba, have ya? [smile]

          • Kyle

            I agree with a lot of what you said. Less government would be a good start in enabling everyone to keep more of there money and businesses to grow.

          • fligz


          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, that’s the left and labor organizations are complaining that “the rich” are NOT taking their jobs overseas and such; i.e. – because they need the “us”. Right!

            Look, Sport, no one is stopping YOU from paying higher wages and lifting up “the poor”! There’s not a damn thing stopping you from doing what you’re demanding that OTHERS do except your own incapacity and unwillingness. So how about getting off your higher horse in terms of disparaging others and ACTUALLY PERFORMING THE TASK YOURSELF!

            Any chance you doing that, ya’ think? You prepared to step in and “better” the employment opportunities Wal-Mart offers are ya’? Got a million or more job applications for jobs at YOUR enterprise ready to hand-out?

            In short, give me a break. You “gimme, gimme” artists make me sick. It’s not “poor people” who are “ruining the country”; rather, it’s parasites such as YOURSELF, who are ALWAYS ready to demand that “the other guy” do something…but when it comes to making a SIGNIFICANT contribution themselves? Well, then the “gimme, gimme” refrain comes out again. The country is figuratively being bled dry by people like you..

          • poodlekiss1922

            Blaming the poor is a powerful sham. Most Americans are a few pay checks away from being poor themselves. Whose at fault for that? It’s easy to point fingers until you are laid off and your kids are starving.

          • Folwart

            Way to suck the corporate cock, Ken.

          • Ken_Meyer

            No, “Folwart”….I *AM* the “corporate cock” that guys like you have to suck in order to maintain your measly existence. Or are you one of those who are making it entirely on your own? [smile]

          • Tannenhouser

            kkken suffers from The disease of CONciet, as well as illusions of grander.(you are hardly a cock.) At best you are a wee Dick. Good Day.

          • Ken_Meyer


            And just who is it that’s the “angry little troll”? [smile]

            I ask because obviously YOUR posts are substantive, to-the-point and non-emotional…right! [cackle]

            P.S. – I’m wondering just how you would know I’m a “wee Dick”? That an area you pay a lot of attention to, is it? [last “smile”]

          • Tannenhouser

            Lol.thanks KKKen.

          • Folwart

            You have personally done nothing. What yoyr types fail to consider is that without the people below you, you woukd have nothing. You would be nothing. Your life woukd suffer without the people there to man the service industry. You feel entitled to it all. Nobody is sucking your cock without scheming a way to chop it off, Ken. I promise you that.

            That’s the thing. Corps. need us to survive, we don’t need them. What goid is creating 10 thousand jobs that pay under 30k a year? That’s not an achievement. That’s part of tbe problem. What goid is creating 10k jobs in China, nimrod? You’re a joke.

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yes, no doubt the corporate world is just crying for the likes of people who use words like “woukd” and “yoyre” and “goid” REPEATEDLY. That said, thanks for the insightful “knowledge” you apparently have of me. [smile]

            As for your “what goid is creating 10 thousand jobs that pay under 30k a year” question, why don’t *YOU* try financing, creating, and maintaining 10 thousand jobs that pay even a FRACTION of that number of jobs of that type *YOURSELF*…and after you’ve done so (and what’s the chance of that happening, ‘eh?…grin!) come back and tell me you’re still looking for the answer. I.e. – by then, you’ll KNOW what “goid” it is….and why the bulk of the world’s population desperately WANTS such job opportunities being offered to them.

            As for brilliantly posed question of “What goid is creating 10k jobs in China, nimrod?”, this “nimrod” suggests that you ask the Chinese that. You think that they DON’T appreciate those jobs, do ya’? Do you think that they’re NOT going to fill them and function competitively in them on a world scale? Or perhaps do you think that people who use the term “goid” repeatedly in a post are inherently “better” than those Chinese, and deserve those jobs on the basis of their race or national origin or what-not?

            That said, here’s ONE “goid” that comes from “nimrods” like me “creating 10k jobs in China”; they’re filled by workers who APPRECIATE them and understand the BENEFIT that those who make those jobs available to them are offering. They DON’T figure it’s their “right” to have them, and are willing to COOPERATE with their employer instead of constantly screaming “gimme, gimme” at him. And, in doing so, they’re fostering PROSPERITY…not only for themselves, but for the COMPETITIVE world at large. That, obviously, is a concept people like you don’t understand. You seem to think that the world owes you a “goid” living, regardless of any effort – or lack thereof – on your part to earn it. Well, it doesn’t.

            You don’t want the opportunities those “corporate” types offer, then it’s no skin off my – or their – butt. There’s a whole WORLD out there…and if you think my – or their – horizons are limited to the domestic “gimme, gimme” crowd, then you’ve been seriously misinformed.

          • Folwart

            Little keys, big thumb. I don’t catch them all on the first pass. I could go back and edit them, but the message has already been conveyed. Once again you’re shifting focus toward defaming my character, ad hominem, in order to debase my argument. While I agree that grammar is important, I never made any claim toward being perfect. Android does like to inject typos repeatedly after letting one slip, it’s quite annoying. I should have proofread, but I’m doing other things as well here and it’s just not convenient at this time. Nice try though, as feminine minded as it was.

          • Ken_Meyer


            No doubt I “drove” you into using the term “goid” multiple times in a post and such. It was all part of my plan to “debase” your “argument” [smile]

            Have a good one! And keep those justifications a comin’!

          • Folwart

            You’re twisting words now too. I’m responding via mobile, that’s justification in itself. The manipulative language you use doesn’t behoove you or your position at all.

          • Tannenhouser

            You do realize its just a troll right? The huge ‘tell’ is it went after spelling error’s. You aren’t going to change it’s mind as it has none, just an ideology and opinions, possibly not even that it may have just a script. It’s sole purpose is to derail the conversation away from the subject matter. You aren’t going to get anything useful from it, except maybe new ways to insult people. I don’t know which state it’s bridge is located in. Wish I did tho cuz there is some serious ignorance in the water there. Good Day.

          • Folwart

            Yes. I actually pointed out the same earlier.

            “Ken_Meyer an hour ago
            Whatever. This is growing tedious, probably for both of us. Have a good one.”

            In this case, oddly, rationality seemed to subdue him. He jumped to conclusions about my beliefs. I opposed him on a couple of points, which meant; “If you are not with me on some points, then you must oppose me on all points!”.

            I fear that a shift toward justice is going to be a rather bloody affair, I certainly don’t have the time, patience or ability to force feed reason into thousands of people. Just one took an afternoon.

          • Folwart

            If you are “the corporate cock”, surely you have better things to do than argue with some lowly Internet whelp, right Ken?

            It seems more likely that you are a mere persona trying to act a part, a troll; or perhaps this is why products are so expensive and corporate employees are paid too little, so the “corporate cocks” can piss around all day doing nothing but making a few emotional decisions for a salary in the hundreds of thousands or more. That’s theft, Ken. Theft from employees and theft from consumers. Just because it is legal doesn’t make it right. It is the lack of proper regulations upon corporate entities that creates this issue.

          • Crenando

            “as part of your parasitical your measly existence” You really are a delusional tool of the 1%, maybe you should try going out in the real world instead of listening to oligarchical propaganda, disgusting anti human swine

          • Ken_Meyer


            Oh, I forgot…”in the real world”, it’s people like YOU who provide the bulk of employment on this planet, isn’t it?! [place a BIG “smile” here]

          • Ken_Meyer


            Yeah, from your posts, one can tell that YOU are one who definitely is in tune with the “real world”, can’t they? [smile]. One has to note, however, that you can’t seem to come up with even a semblance of a reasonable denial of the TRUE “reality” of what I’ve had to say. That something that “real world” experience made you incapable of providing, is it? [cackle]

            Sorry, “Crenando”…but it’s not my fault that you’re as dependent as you are upon your economic betters. Maybe if you had tried to make something of yourself instead of constantly criticizing and/or making “gimme, gimme” demands on those who DID try (and succeeded!), it might have been different.

            But we’ll never know, will we?

            Have a good one!

          • Danny Richardson

            No, “ken” you are a piece of shit, a delusional economic parasite. Gtfo this forum. Capitalism is in its final stages. Get over it. [Shaking my head in absolute disgust at you, and what you are]

          • Ken_Meyer


            Right! Capitalism is on it’s deathbed…and our future is represented by societies such as North Korea, Venezuela and other such non-capitalist, socialist “paradises”. Understood! [smile]

            As for your “disgust”, I think it’s pretty clear that you’ll be “disgusted” with just about anyone of that class you’re economically dependent upon….especially when they’re in touch with a reality that you can’t seem to wrap your brain around.

            No matter; have a good one anyway!

        • poodlekiss1922

          This is what I don’t get. People complained about union dues and busted up the unions. Who can we trust to make sure we are getting fair wages? In most of the developed world people do not want their jobs and factories in other counties. This idea of a free market only works if companies have values. If there are no regulations we can expect lower wages and any rise in cost to be passed on to the consumer. Simple Econ.

        • Cyr3n

          The craziest map. Google this, “top employers in each state”. It’ll show you how one company (Walmart) employs the majority of people under $13/Hr in each state that it has measurable repercussions on the politics and household income for these states. Effectively, these people all need government subsidies to survive because their company pays so little. For the state, these Walmart employees result in a negative tax income.. And yet they continue to award Walmart tax incentives to do business there because so many people rely on those ‘jobs’ to live. It’s a death spiral.

    • Cats r Flyfishn

      It’s known as Reaganomics.

    • Sharon Reddy

      Read our history. We’ve already done this twice. The people got mad, the Congress changed, anti-trust regulation broke up big business, banking regulation was passed. Political revolution in this country is voter revolution. Unfettered capitalism leads us into vast economic inequality and we regulate. Over time, the regulations are weakened and the inequality rises. It’s time for a voter revolution, to end a second “Gilded Age.”

      What’s very important in this article is the understanding we must rethink ‘work and compensation.’ The vast ‘manufacturing base’ is disappearing, worldwide. ‘Drudgery jobs’ are vanishing, as technology replaces people. Get out of dystopian fiction, like Mad Max, and read the thinkers and the science fiction authors with real ideas for the well-being of the people, which must include fulfilling work. BTW, don’t expect to find those authors in the booklists of the six vast corporations that own 95% of all publishing, billboards to TV, on the planet Earth.

  • realty bites

    Let robots replace everyone, then there will be no one to buy the stuff anyway because we will be replaced by robots. So if we can’t make money, we can’t spend it. Self destruction is where we are, but keep voting, that should help. I mean your pay is already 36% short on payday, keep giving it to the government, keep giving, exhaust yourselves, your slaves anyway. Marinate on that reality, your complaining doesn’t mean squat. Fools.

  • Apul_MadeeqAoud

    At 50 yrs old, I had hoped that I would be in a position to give great fatherly advice to my kids. Since I’m well within the ranks of the “losers” in this economy as a former engineer who gave up trying to outrun the outsourcing tsunami, I have no such advice to give to my kids.

    Many say this generation is rudderless and without motivation. And I say who can blame them after seeing what happened to their parents? With the way the world and the country is headed, with the rapid changes in technology and economy, what possible career could they engage in that would have a chance of carrying them into their retirement that is not at risk of becoming obsolete. One can’t even say what FIVE years in the future is going to look like, let alone 40.

    I do think the world is going to have to reckon with what it means when the vast majority of the world’s population is idled by technology taking over their employment. Given humanity’s history, I very much doubt a luxurious idleness is what awaits us. I think the visions of “Robocop”, “Blade Runner”, and “Terminator” are much more likely.

    • Duke

      While I agree globalization and tech displacing workers is hard to keep up with….

      Nurse, fire, police, teacher, politician, therapist, entertainment, doctor, dentist, travel, bike mechanic, auto repair, property management, solar… Take your pick..

      • bethbonnie

        Oh good lord. Teachers are in that list of 51%. Some lucky enough to be making a net income of $35k.

        • Duke

          I wasn’t commenting on wage ranges. I was replying to this statement:

          what possible career could they engage in that would have a chance of carrying them into their retirement that is not at risk of becoming obsolete”
          I’m guessing most teachers have great benefits, retirement, and summers off! I would have become a teacher if my small business failed..

          • hereNT

            Knowing several teachers, they don’t have great benefits, retirement, or summers off. Most have to take a job during the summer, work many hours off the clock, buy supplies with their own money because the school isn’t funded, etc. On top of that, one of the favorite things for conservatives to attack is the “evil teacher’s unions” that are causing all of society’s problems and the government budget shortfalls.

    • You’re correct in saying you are not in the position to give advice… considering you think they should have to work for 40 years… financial savvy and frugal living can have most people with enough saved up to retire in half that time… just have to avoid being like the average American and paying $300,000 in interest payments.

      • Apul_MadeeqAoud

        Financial savvy and frugal living in a minimum wage environment as described in this article is going to do nothing of the sort. It will help you live paycheck to paycheck your whole life.

    • Notgreektome

      I agree. As an underemployed Economist, my professors showed us the truth. People are now working low paying jobs to get their employee discounted healthcare. We need to stop going to the government to appeal for fixes. The corporations are the ones who need to change.

  • Rick Morris

    Heh I’ve been trying for weeks to get my charts out that uses the same data from the same Social Security Online website this article mentions, but mine goes as far back 1990: It becomes very obvious that employment isn’t the problem.. low wages are. And this second chart shows exactly where the money is going: Look at that nice bright red to the far right.. also known as the 1%.

  • Malby

    Don’t have kids until you can support them.

    Also, people making <$ 30,000 don't pay much taxes, get food stamps and earned income tax credits. Why you use "family of five" and $28,000 together is beyond me. Who expects to support three kids on one person's wages at minimum wage??

    • Susan Nash

      Bullshit – we pay lots of f*king taxes, don’t get food stamps or tax credits – those things are only for people who have kids, Over 55 retired and need health care which the ACA doesn’t really fix is broke and going down the tubes.

  • jessica

    102.6 million people without jobs huh? in a nation of roughly 320 million people that would put us at an unemployment rate of about 32%. Even higher percentage considering that not all 320 million people are “working age.” I would love to see some citations for your alarming statistics. PLEASE FACT CHECK YOURSELF.

    • Jim in Texas

      One of the most misleading statistics put out by our government is the unemployment rate. It doesn’t even consider people who have stopped looking. The real rate is probably well over 25%. It also doesn’t take into account at all those (like me) who lost good paying “permanent” jobs with benefits to take two or three part time jobs just to put food on the table. I’m still very much considered “employed.”

      • The U6 actually DOES include that, Jim, and is at roughly 10%.

        The REAL misleading part is lumping in the 20% of our population that is above retirement age, the youth that should be focusing on education, the disabled, ill, recently discharged from the military, financially independent of all ages, people who live off grid… lumping all of them into the unemployed category..

        It’s as though every person alive should be toiling away for the sake money… I like to believe there is more to life than that, and I will happily join those people who are unemployed and not looking for work, when I retire early.

    • wunsacon

      >> in a nation of roughly 320 million people that would put us at an
      unemployment rate of about 32%. Even higher percentage considering that
      not all 320 million people are “working age.”

      Note: In your calculation of “% unemployed”, you seem to be including newborns, kindergarteners, and middle-schoolers in your denominator, as well as people lying in hospital beds or just a few steps removed.

      >> I would love to see some
      citations for your alarming statistics. PLEASE FACT CHECK YOURSELF.

      You know, it’s not that difficult to look up the un/employment statistics yourself.

  • Respect

    Makes perfect sense given the moronic attitude by Americans shown towards saving and self-preservation.

    If you are a person who is asking, “Where the jobs at?”, then you are setting yourself up for failure. Don’t rely on others for a job. That’s Beta behavior and is going to set you up to be crushed. Find a problem that needs solving. Find something that you can improve a process on. Market this, educate customers, and sell.

    If you are having kids when you cannot afford them, then you are setting yourself up for failure.

    If you don’t find alternative ways of making money, without a boss, you are setting yourself up for failure.

    If you blow money trying to keep up with the Joneses (like most of the idiots in the bottom 50%), then you are going to fail.

    It boggles my mind that the bottom 50% have not looked around to see that they are competing against global workers as well as automation, and are not waking up at the crack of dawn, reading, researching, and improving their skill set. Instead, the average bumbling and bloated American workers shuffles off to Starbucks and blows $5-10 every morning, sometimes afternoons. Then eats a garbage diet which slows down their brain function. Gets fat, bloated, doesn’t learn any new skills, and expects to survive. You will be the first ones to get ran over, and it’s your own fault for not paying attention.

    In case you have not been paying attention the last 10 years, competition is fierce, the landscape has changed.

    And for the bumbling 2-digit IQ members on the thread who talk about “corporate greed”, but in the same sentence, ask “Where the jobs at?”, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Again, if you rely on others for jobs, and then insult them, don’t wonder why anybody won’t hire you.

    Remember, for every hour you watch non-educational television, for every hour you putz around on social media, your competition is out there improving skill-sets, reading, research, and selling. Chew on that for a moment and consider your position.

    Please leave your tip in the jar.

    • Duke

      I agree with your assessment. But when all the money is sucked out of economy by “profit” and workers are expendable, there is no money for people to pay other people for services. A basic income guarantee BIG would go a long way toward balancing things out. Paid for by taxing pollution, technology, and profits, and other negative externalities not paid for during production.

    • The amount of waste in the average American budget is mind blowing.. it’s shocking to me how people earning $30k+ a year can complain about living paycheck to paycheck, or being poor, meanwhile wasting $20+ a day on conveniences, and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars over their lifetime just in interest payments… such a shame, really.

      Although realistically I wouldn’t consider global workers or automation to be competition if you are generating your money from self-employment.. if your angle is to be the cheapest you will lose regardless the industry… and if it’s not, than cheap labor or automation can’t really compete against what you have.

      • bethbonnie

        I wouldn’t categorize “the poor” as spending $20 a day on conveniences. living paycheck to paycheck is stressful, and energy sucking, and gives you no time to do yoga or an exercise routine (I say this slightly tongue I cheek. What I mean is- no way to de-stress.) Meaning you’re depressed, or anxious, or just plain angry. Meaning driving through and getting $1 cheeseburgers is not just convenient, sometimes its necessary for sanity.

      • hereNT

        Don’t forget all that money they lose by not being able to get bank accounts and going to payday loan and check cashing places! And those that do have bank accounts are often stuck with so little in their accounts that they get overdraft fees! Why would someone pay $75 because of a $5 miscalculation?!?!! That’s just crazy! They should really just have more money in the account so they don’t have that happen. Idiots.

        And don’t even get me started on the people with low credit scores. Don’t they know that results in higher interest rates? I mean, my score is super high, and I pay off everything by the end of the month most of the time. So I haven’t had to pay interest or late fees in a couple of years. In fact, the credit card companies pay ME money to use their service. Isn’t that cool?

        Yeah, why don’t they just get their act together?


    • shuzbut

      It’s precisely that attitude that created this mess.You work 40hrs/wk??Ok I’ll work 50!You work 50hrs/wk??Ok I’ll work 60!Americans are overworked and unhappy. If you are working at your office 80 hrs a week, you are a failure.Quality of life=fail.

    • Danny Richardson

      I feel sorry for you and your depressing outlook on our existence. The goal of any moral society is to have us all idle, free to pursue the arts, develop technology or just watch tv. Yes life as of now is unjust, its no news that the rich are getting richer at the cost of the rest. Inheritance is the main problem, would hate to live in your world, what a sad selfish place to be. The dehumanizing of everyone needs to stop.

  • BaronMatrix

    The jobs are in IT and computers now…

    • Susan Nash

      Yeah if you are from India

      • hereNT

        Or if you can fix the code that people get back from the hacks over in India…

  • Gus

    I have some questions about these stats. It says the poverty level for a family of five is $28.410, but 38% of Americans make less than $20.000. I see a little bit of fallacy in that logic. What if this 38% are the single students getting their first job? What if in a family actually the husband and wife work? Then the income for the family would be double that and the stats you are trying to show would be completely different. Would be good to compare apples to apples. And say “38% of families make less than XX” a year to make a valid point.


    Trump can fix this problem and quickly.

  • Dixie normus

    I think there should be some sort of debt forgiveness given that the government has hung us out to dry.

  • Sarito Carol Neiman

    Very good article, thank you. I think the evolutionary “leap” we are called upon to make, given the realities of our technology and (relatively new) global interconnectedness, is to bring it all back to the local, the immediate, the human. What can humans do that machines cannot? How can we reclaim the meaning and purpose of our lives, take it back from the larger political/economic “machine” that is concerned, ultimately, only with “profit” in the form of money.

    (Leaving aside, for the moment, the question of “growth” and whether the best use of surplus resources is to apply them to expansion of the current capacity. No small question, mind you, but nonetheless putting it aside for the moment.)

    What can we do that machines can’t do? We can take care of our young, and our elders. We can sift out what is valuable and worth preserving, and make sure we keep it. Treasure it. Treasure the most honorable, beautiful, creative, and yes, useful contributions of our species to this Earth Community in which we live together.

    We can prepare a meal that is greater than the sum of its parts, which nourishes the body and supports vibrant, living health, in ways that a microwaved mass-produced “food product” can never do.

    We can share that food with one another, we can grow it and tend it and care for it until it is ready (and willing, in spirit) to be harvested. We can begin to grasp the vast universe of intelligent harmony that goes into making good soil, pure water, clean and healthy air.

    We are the only animal on the planet, or so I have heard, with the awareness that some day we will leave our bodies. We will die. We have choices, and freedoms none of our fellow creatures in the planet seem to have. (Although, I am quite sure, they have qualities and states of consciousness and awareness most of us have not even begun to fathom.)

    We have to get back to all that. We have to say no to all the aspects of The Machine that are power-hungry, bullying, life-negating, hateful, greedy, arrogant … and killing us all, both in body and in spirit.

    No to the psychopathology that “Wall Street” and its followers, to the “worshipers of the Golden Calf” in Bible terms. No to the notion that everything must be “privatized” and “profitized” … even our very right — yes, right — to enjoy the best health that a beautiful, clean environment and good nourishing food can provide.

    If we can do that – if we can just decide to come back home to where we live, in the here and in the now…

    Then we won’t have to wonder how to support and sustain ourselves. It will happen of its own accord.

    • Humans can connect, and robots cannot… that will be the driving force behind any successful business going forward — good storytelling, humanity.. bringing personality and life to your product, rather than just an output.

  • rishik

    Whatever sensible development was supposed to occur with the use of public funds with an outlook towards the future, has instead been directed over the years, through fear-mongering and propoganda towards the building of the largest prison state and the most wanton litigatous society. Bureaucrats and politicians have become unregulated to the point of seeking and maintaining positions in office for the sole purpose of serving their own interests. America has spent so much resource trying to shape the world to serve its needs, that they have all but ignored the structural problems at the home-front.
    If you are looking for the money, find it in the most inflated budgets of the correctional services, NSA, FBI, the military, border control and other agencies that Americans have allowed to grow in power to the point that they are not as much services to protect the people, but rather shackles. You have options: 1. Drop other career aspirations for yourself and your children and become a part of this machine, keeping your head down and coasting through life, tolerating injustices to yourself and your neighbor; 2. Take action and voice your opinion to those in power to reverse this trend of exporting your jobs elsewhere and over-criminalizing your own. Take back the power, remind your justice system and political realm who gives them their power, who they are supposed to protect and serve. Lower your expectations and feelings of entitlement, be entrepreneurial and stop expecting and depending on mega-corps and governments to provide for you all the time. Learn from the well-to-do hard-working people living at the fringes of your society and often considered pariahs, such as moonshiners and crocodile hunters. The answer to every problem is not on the page of some book. Sometimes, you have to take stock of the situation, think of a solution and revise your entire life policy all by yourselves. If you emerge hopeful through this, do away with legal loopholes, make passionate decisions and impose limits on the greed of your CEOs by limiting their income, as it should have been. Not all of them are philanthropists and temptation is a vile thing for the human heart; 3. Do nothing or turn radical and let the all-powerful system stomp you underfoot or shred you to the bits of disjointed families and alienated communities.
    That is all.

  • Kenneth Lieb

    The article states unavoidable facts about the relentless logic of capitalism, which is more amoral than immoral. By that I mean it not inherently evil as an economic system, but not at all humanistic–it just doesn’t care one way or the other about people, only efficiency. While mentioning the new Pacific Trade Agreement as a potential bogeyman, it also alludes to the real issue–that increasing efficiency through technology will continue to eliminate far more jobs than it creates. Robots already manufacture many products–how long before self driving vehicles become taxis? How long before fast food franchises figure out how to use robots to do large portions of their work?

    Neither political party has very good answers at his point.

    • RHytonen

      Capitalism is not evil – until you adopt or allow it. Then it’s YOU who are evil.

    • hereNT

      They just approved self driving semis, actually. So, that’s where most jobs from that particular automation will be lost at first. Which is actually a really large number of jobs.

      Fast food restaurants are already testing automated ordering kiosks, and many of the cooking components are already heavily automated vs what you’d see in a traditional restaurant.

    • Mccandle

      But, why? Because of the ultra rich. The looting of the middle class has enabled the ultra rich to invest in such tools as robotics to replace those they have looted.
      They completely forget that we are a society of *human beings* and what we do should be what benefits those *human beings*. NOT eliminate them.

  • Yawn. Dear panicked white people. These systemic institutional economic forces of which you speak, that have denied income opportunity to many and forced dependency upon government is precisely the economic paradigm that has plagued black, Latino and Native populations for generations. Welcome to our reality. We’ve been screaming about through Jim Crow, marching in the streets through the Civil Rights Movement and organizing to salvage the trickle-up of our population into the middle class (mostly through government hiring and contracting with minority businesses) over the past 40 years. Yes, let that number sink in for a moment. Black people have only been able to track a tiny sliver of economic upward mobility for a small portion of our population for a mere 40 of the 160 years that we’ve been called “Americans.” (another reality check … we’ve only been Americans for 160 years). Then the 2007 Great Recession hit, which wiped out more than 50% of black “wealth.” (Much of which was a mirage since it was calculated in home equity). So, half of all our folks that actually made it into the middle class despite systemic forces and institutional biases raining down on us daily, fell back out of the middle class. And there was no wailing and gnashing of teeth across America for our plight. And we won’t wail about the new company we’re getting. We’re just happy to see you so we can finally all start working together to build a brighter future for all of our children.

    • Folwart

      Glad to be here aside some folks with some sense, Brother. Ever since I was a teenager I knew the system was fucked. It seemed obvious to me, but nobody around me cared enough to actually talk about it, many would make excuses for it. Not all whites were clueless, just powerless without local support.

  • Lots of comments about revolution, but
    how can a revolution occur in the US? As Richard Wolff points out,
    the last (sort of) revolution was Roosevelt’s new deal back in the
    1930’s, which was forced on him by the treat of revolution. That only happened because there were 3 truly left parties
    (the Socialists, Trotskyists & Communists) each with millions of
    members plus powerful, militant trade unions with many millions of
    members in a country with a total population about one third of what it is today.

    If anything is to happen in the US, or over here in Europe for that matter, there must
    be widespread social movements like & Occupy with tens of
    millions of members screaming blue murder. Given that we are now “a
    technology-rich, advertising-fed, knowledge-poor society” (Sachs), the
    vast majority of the population can’t drag itself off the couch, so I won’t hold my breath.

    For the past 50 years Americans have been brainwashed to believe that
    socialism is bad, socialism is a failure, socialism in old-fashioned by a
    corrupt education system & a corrupt media. Capitalism it must be:
    there is no other way.

    • Folwart

      They both have their problems. The problem with any form of government is the same, aside from this they could all work beatifully. Corruption. The corrupt must bleed, that is the only answer, it’s the only language they will understand. Their walls will be breached and they will shake and piss themselves in fear, and their heads will be on pikes for taking what was not theirs to take.

      • We all agree that something must be done, but we can’t find anyone willing & able to do it.

        • Folwart

          The division and delusions at work. At least we know the divide and conquer bit and smoke and mirrors is effective. It seems one must quietly prepare and slowly try to bring others into the fold in their local are one by one.

  • Chris

    Get involved with the trades. Carpentry, electrical, tile installer. I am a contractor and can’t find enough workers to meet demand.

    • Mintos

      the problem is that people now days or just the young kids don’t consider such jobs. They aim high and sometimes the fall just leave them in a worse position. Trade jobs have been out there for a while but never get the attention they deserve. If anything someone learning hard work now days is better than the one paying to go to college to learn how to code (which you can self thought yourself that) and is working in small jobs. All that I am saying if there is no other choice for someone then trade jobs should highly be considered.

    • technoreaper

      Then why aren’t you training people for these jobs then?

  • cindy Scott

    I’m a young adult with a Family and living from pay check to pay check does not cut it. I’ve found that going into business for yourself and making money off of what you love is the best way to get out of this Static.

  • Mathew

    The problem isn’t robots and computers. The problem is global neo-liberalism in which the parasites of Wall Street are choking and killing the physical productive economy. We need more robots and computers – infinitely more. But these robots and computers must be created by a high standard of labor – not today’s slave labor. Today’s labor is a race to the bottom with no regard to human life. This is the problem, and this is what must change. Dump Wall Street. Dump neo-liberalism. Dump endless wars. Only then can labor and humanity have a bright future.

    • Folwart

      Beware what you wish for.

  • Richard Rabinowitz

    Invest in robots or help to ensure that everyone has a robot/computer sidekick or two. Then sit back and let our robots do most of the work while we do whatever interests us.

    • Folwart

      We should fear this robotic tech more than that, Bub. Think of the military implications of that technology, think about who is funding it. They aren’t funding them so they shit rainbows.

  • Michael K. Dean

    Need to be creative and find a “want” or a “need” and invent a service job. What will people want or need in the future? Figure that out and do it. You do not always have to work for someone else.

  • Bratista

    Move into space. Get jobs in science. Or just hope to win the lottery?

  • George

    At some point everyone but the international super rich are brought down. As wages fall and jobs go there is no money left for other than the basics and the business class collapses as well then the financiers.

  • perry fajardo

    Not so fast please. Those not in the labor are not unenemployed. That includes people in working age who are still studying, the sick, the priest and nuns and other people with similar endeavors. And i suppose also includes prisoners, and any one doing things other than for the purpuse of production

  • Mastro63

    The stuff will hit the fan as home ownership- and the economy built around it- goes kerpluey because so few people can afford a down payment.

    If foreign funds- say Chinese retirement funds- start buying half our houses and charging higher and higher rent to the average American- well- THAT might start a revolution- or at least some really negative populist policies.

  • Stevie Nichts

    Of course, to the left, this isn’t a wake-up call to improve Obama’s economy. No sir! It’s a clarion cry to Tax the 1% until they’re broke, too.

  • mikekelley10

    This is part of it:

    –Rather than a new age of democratic capitalism imagined by Reagan-era conservatives, we increasingly live in a world dominated by large companies. The overall revenues of Fortune 500 companies have risen from 58 percent of nominal GDP in 1994 to 73 percent in 2013. At the same time, small-business startups have declined as a portion of all business growth, from 50 percent in the early ’80s to 35 percent in 2010. Indeed, a 2014 Brookings report (PDF) revealed that small business “dynamism,” measured by the growth of new firms compared with the closing of older ones, has declined significantly over the past decade, with more firms closing than starting for the first time in a quarter-century. Only 35 percent of small-business owners, according to arecent survey by the National Small Business Association, express optimism about the economy.–

  • Keith Hagarman

    The elites seem to think that Americans will patiently wait in line for a bowl of soup and a piece of bread just like before. Not this time, and your “gated community” will not be enough to save you.

  • Vizzini

    I’m suspicious of these numbers. Sometimes numbers look very different when you add in some context: How many of these workers are primary breadwinners for a household that’s larger than just themselves or themselves and a working spouse?

    How does age of the worker and time in the workforce stack up against income? Why should we expect an entry-level worker to be making enough to keep a family of five above the poverty level?

    • Folwart

      Many companies keep people at entry level wages as long as they can, and sell it like it’s something great. No, an entry level wage shouldn’t support that, but experience shouldn’t be ignored either. As a 30 something I can work circles around virtually any lower to mid 20 somethings in a wide range of jobs due to my life experience, when it’s proven that ought to be rewarded.

      Typically it isn’t so the incentive to produce twice the value simply isn’t there and it’s actually dangerous to be overly productive because those above you and around you are often not that way and will sabatage you before they allow you to make them look bad. Even though one may not care about making people look bad and may just have pride in their work, appreciate efficiency and not believe in milking the clock, it’s about how others perceive it. And let’s be real, they aren’t going to ask, they are going to assume you are.

  • geek49203

    They key ingredient here is “mobility”. The article hints darkly that people at these wage levels are doomed to stay there, but then provides absolutely no foundation for this other than a statement that half are below the US Median Income. Well, I’ve proved time after time that incomes fluctuate, including mine, and we’re all just one phone call / boss chat away from a raise, or unemployment!

    The second real issue (beyond “mobility”) that is totally missed is “what do we do with les incompetents? What do we have for people that God didn’t bless with much talent, or have health issues, etc?

  • Room_237

    “So what advice would you give to a young adult today that is looking toward the future?”
    Get a government job

  • Ken_Meyer

    I wonder just what the odds are of the author of this article – Michael Snyder – HIMSELF creating, financing, offering, and maintaining a”lot of middle calss jobs”.

    Gosh knows “the left” and/or “organized’ labor” is chock-full of “gimme, gimme artists” who are constantly asking that OTHERS provide for them. The world seems sufficiently supplied with the “Michael Snyder” types. What’s lacking, however, are people who actually make a significant CONTRIBUTION toward employment on their own hook instead incessantly demanding that others due what they are either unable or unwilling to do themselves.

    How’s about it, Michael? Are YOU ready YOURSELF to offer a SIGNIFICANT number of “middle class jobs” (if you want to compete with Wal-Mart, it will take a million or so!) and offer an example to those who YOU think are “squeezing the middle class” as to just how it should be done? Or are you just another bozo who maintains that it’s the OTHER GUY’S job?

    Anybody have doubt about the probable answer to that question?

    • hereNT

      Wal-Mart offers middle class jobs?

      • Ken_Meyer

        I suspect that the million or so jobs that Wal-Mart offers are a lot closer to being “middle class” than the in-your-dreams million jobs a “gimme, gimme” artist like Michael Snyder offers. Or is it your contention that, in terms of wages, “nothing” is better than “something”?

        Beyond that, “yes”, Wal-Mart DOES offer “middle-class jobs”; quite a few of them, in fact. Of course, few of the “union” crowd want to admit that fact (as they shop there, of course!…smile!)

        • hereNT

          Not in the union crowd, actually. I’d much prefer cooperative worker ownership. Not government ownership, mind you, but worker ownership. At least a partial stake, it offers incentive _and_ leverage to ensure that labor is not exploited.

          Don’t shop at WalMart, either.

          My contention is that if my wages are garnished to pay for WalMart’s workers, then they should pay more to their workers. And also that what is now “middle class” was “poverty” not very long ago. We don’t really have a middle class anymore.

    • Tannenhouser

      You know Ken, your profit prophets are false. I’ll never understand how/why people CONtinually turn away from thing that are actually in their interest, sic organized labor and the other examples of gimme gimme artists. That’s right Ken gimme gimme a wage that is in line with the profit obtained by my labor. . As opposed to paying a CEO obscenely for an add NOTHING to the process position. You must be slow or seriously brainwashed to choose that not in your interest. Good day

      • Ken_Meyer


        Hey, guy, if you don’t like “the wage that is in line with the profit obtained by [your] labor” CURRENTLY, then go elsewhere! Or take “the profit” yourself, creating your OWN employment, and paying your OWN wages.

        Much chance of that happening, is there? Think blokes with your attitude do real well without those “CEO’s” to employ them? [grin!]

        If I’m “seriously brainwashed”, then it’s to the extent that I realize that feather-bedding a__holes such as yourself will NEVER be satisfied with a fair MARKET_BASED wage, but will ALWAYS be demanding MORE for that labor than what it’s worth….. and that you’ll utilize every method of coercion NOT based on the actual value of the labor you have to offer in an attempt to gain that “more”.

        Seen a lot of “CEO unions”, have ya’? Bottom line is that CEO’s wages are based – whether you like that fact or not – on their perceived MARKET VALUE. But guys like you? My goodness…to have your compensation based on the actual VALUE of your labor?! Perish the thought!

        You’ll “never understand”, Tannenhouse, because at heart you’re a parasite. You expect OTHERS to support you at a level above and beyond what the market value of the labor you have to offer would otherwise obtain. Paying market-based compensation to a CEO? That’s not “obscene” at all. Paying guys likes you more than they’re worth simply because of you’re willingness to sell your vote and thus obtain [allegedly] legal means of thuggish intimidation to gather in more than your fair share? Now THAT’S obscene!

        • Folwart

          Off finding other victims to troll with your arrogant superiority complex success fantasy twisted hamster wheel bullshit, Ken? Is that delusional “gimme gimme” parroting routine all you have? I’m here, Huckleberry.

  • AL Epding

    Viva la revolution !!

  • Terenc Blakely

    Well in the name of ‘fairness’ the goal of leftists has always been to create a society with two classes; a small group of well connected political elite, intellectuals, celebrities and uber rich crony capitalists versus a vast mass of lumpen prols utterly dependent on the government for pretty much everything.

    Leftists really don’t view most people as their equals. At best they view them as ‘victims’ and at worst they view them as incompetent scum that need their guidance to get through life.

    • hereNT

      Huh. I don’t know a single liberal that wants that…

      • technoreaper

        Terenc hit the nail on the head, and every liberal responds like that when accused.

        • hereNT

          If every liberal tells you that’s not what they want, why don’t you believe them?

          Personally, I want collective (worker) ownership of businesses that work in a free market. Government can take the stuff that really shouldn’t be for-profit, like health insurance and providing a minimum income so that everyone has an equal playing field without fear of losing everything because of an unexpected circumstance.

          I think everyone’s capable of greatness, but our system is stacked against most of the playing field. I probably want to get rid of that ‘well connected elite’ more than most conservatives.

          Almost every liberal I know feels similarly. And I don’t know any that feel like Terenc claims.

  • will

    Plenty of gimmigrants will work for even less, as long as they get their ebt cards, obamacare, and public schools.

    • hereNT

      Plenty of poor white rednecks sucking on that public teat, too.

  • stephenverchinski

    See THX 1138 then go and find a way to change the vision.

  • Andrew Rothman

    The solution is simple: more access to birth control. When there are more people than jobs and you can’t find any more jobs, you have to make fewer people.

    • Folwart

      Better idea, don’t limit abortion to those that haven’t had a chance to prove themselves. Abort people that fail to be accountable for themselves and their responsible for their choices.

  • Louis Brown

    I found great fault with this article. It only barel mentions the whys for the decline of the middle class. It should state also that the economy makes the money it has in the past but distributes the money differently from the past. The huge debt we suffer is the result of many things; debt from unnecessary wars (thanks Redumblicans) and a very low real tax rate for businesses. Add that to the decline of unions (thanks Redumblicans) ridiculous CEO salaries and skyrocketing wealth and income inequality and you have in a economy based on consumption a middle class that lacks the ability to consume and create demand for jobs.

  • jkgodblessamerica

    So when will we stop being the worlds police. How much money has that cost? And entitlement? How many people are making their living getting over on the system? Need more money, just have another baby! What is that costing the government who is already so in debt it will never get out. Loose your job in you 50’s? Better have a good retirement plan, because you will be spending it now. Sure let’s keep taking in the worlds refugees. We can give them benefits and no they won’t have to pay taxes. True the government is broke. Companies keep keep farming out our jobs to foreign countries. Why aren’t we taxing the h out of them? People are becoming so desperate for a job that employers can pay $10.00 an hour with no benefits. Just keep the presses rolling and print more paper money. We know what value that has. This is why I am voting for Trump!

  • Mary Lawson

    I don’t like living in a world increasingly being taken over by drones and robots. No thanks!

  • Charles4004

    “You can’t support a middle class family on just $2,500 a month.” You’re right, you can’t, and the article is highly misleading as it assumes this 51% are all workers who support (or need to support) families. If we are going to be intellectually honest, we must exclude from this data workers who are teenagers, college students, and retirees. These folks do not support families. Other points to keep in mind, this data includes people who work in the restaurant/bar service industry. As anyone who has ever worked in that industry knows, what your employer reports on your W-2 in no way accurately reflects what you actually earned. Furthermore, the data focuses on W-2 income and not 1099 independent contractor income, which is the way many self employed people get paid. A more accurate study would be one that excludes the workers I listed at the top, and includes 1099 income for the same taxpayer.

  • PistoleroTK

    Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of problems in this country. But, what this fails to mention is that many, if not most, households have more than one person bringing home a paycheck. I own a business and it is always a struggle and rarely a year goes by without some circumstance causing grief and expenses unforeseen…or a big revenue hit. However there are few places I could do what I do and be my own boss doing something I have been passionate about for 30 years. Not a perfect world, and there are no 1%ers around here…this is not Wal-mart but a small business with about 25 employees. But for a twist of fate or call it extrodinary luck – YOU could be living in a bombed out building in Fahluja or a peasant in China or a homeless person in what ever major US city. Work hard, stay focused, don’t give up and be happy you live in the USA and not some tyrannical 3rd world country. If you don’t like the ways things are here, leave or do something about it.

    • Folwart

      This is about saving us from the fate of those other countries. We can either be proactive and stand up to stop it as has happened before, or we can wait until it’s too late, pass the buck to the next generation who won’t be able to do jack shit about it. Look beyond the moment, Bub.

      I’ve heard your parroted argument before, and it’s logically fallacious. If a society is reactive, tyrrany has already won. Wake the fuck up, don’t defend tyrannical behavior.

  • Michael s

    Read Genesis, Daniel, and Revelations and the Gospels.

    The best advice is that we all become meek and like children.

    If you think I’m close-minded, I once was. But once your eyes are opened with truth, you shall be set free. Jesus is the truth. You will be set free from worrying. Do your best, try your hardest, and follow God’s will for you. Be joyful. This doesn’t mean people will not fight against this. Some of us will lead, some will fight. If you feel something inside, ask God what that feeling is. Just ask and you will be shown at the right time. We all play a part. But we all must be as a child.

  • Disgusted

    I’m continously dumbfounded by the fact that to be considered impoverished in America you need to be earning around $28K and supporting five people. A single person living in New York City would be hard-pressed to afford rent, groceries, medical care and transportation on such a salary! Minimally, 100K annually is needed to support a family of four in the Northeast and that’s stretching it!

  • Alexandre Bonnefoy

    Thank you to use the image of one of our books ti illustrate your article.

    You don’t credit so here is the name of the photographer : Jordy Meow
    The name of the book : Nippon no Haikyo
    and the link of the book :

    Please add it under the photo. Please.

  • Alarmed

    You STOLE this picture without crediting the artist or asking. No wonder people make less than 30K per year when people like you steal people’s work. Give credit, buy the rights to use it or admit you actually love workers being poor. Can’t pretend you care about people making a living and act like you don’t give a f**k at the same time.

  • Tim

    Your article is misleading.. You discuss where the average worker bring home $x amount however you don’t factor in the fact that a family of 5 on average had 2 working adults not 1.. Therefore the family has $x * 2 which bring them above the so called poverty line… Which is another BS idea.. I’ve lived well under that line and never felt like I was in a state of poverty.

    • Folwart

      When? In the 90s or early 00s? A lot has changed. Everything has changed. That was a golden age compared to this. Here’s a bs idea. It takes 2 people, so twice as many working hours, to earn the same thing? That’s okay with you?

  • Tim

    Oh yeah and GO TO COLLEGE or learn a trade… If you have skills and are a good worker you will do fine… if you don’t train yourself or learn skills or are a shitty worker well you probably make what you are worth in terms of your contributions to society.. $20K and no more.

    • Folwart

      Trade school yes, college no (save for a handful of fields). You are better off getting the skills by using the vast communal knowledge of the net and building a portfolio to show that you know your shit.

  • Brad Carr

    We could start by getting rid of NAFTA and the WTO and all the regulation and government subsidy that goes along with it, that is one of largest cost of our government is corporate subsidies thanks to huge corporations abusing political influence. If we got rid of this rigged system and let the market take care of itself then maybe we could get back to where we manufacture and produce goods here instead of importing practically everything, and it would help if Americans would have more faith in US made products instead of buying imported cars, food etc. and make a concerted effort to buy products made in the USA. Problem solved, but much easier said than done. The large conglomerate Corporations of today are more powerful than most of today’s whole entire Countries.

  • BalancedPerspective

    This blog is written to get a rise out of you. If you look closely at the data referenced in this post, you’ll see that it is the *net* earnings divided by the number of earners. That means it is after-tax dollars and includes data from the 17 year old who only works 6 hours a week. A better indicator is this report from the Bureau of Labor statistics, which reports on gross wages of full-time workers. Before you get riled up and post inflammatory comments after reading a blog post, spend a minute to dig into the facts.

    • Folwart

      Statistics can say whatever they want it to say. Those aren’t facts. If you want facts go take a walk around your city and talk to people, that’ll tell the take much truer.

  • onsightit

    The fattest pipeline for the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the 1% is revolving debt – credit cards.

  • Jill

    4 words: vote for Bernie Sanders

    • Folwart

      You can’t fix a broken tool with the broken tool. Nobody going in no matter how good is going to fix it. They won’t change the system, the system will change them. How many times do you have to see it before you believe it? Ever notice how presidents go in looking lively and 4 years later they are all grey like a fucking Sith.

  • Deborah Starling

    “What that means is that if you have no debt and you also have ten dollars in your pocket that gives you a greater net worth than about 25 percent of the entire country.” – that is a CRAZY statistic and unfortunately I am in my thirties and in debt. This is a subject that is obviously very near and dear to me because I am living it. I recently read a fascinating and eye-opening booked called Financial Inclusion at the Bottom of the Pyramid” by author’s Carol Realini and Karl Mehta ( This book is for anyone who wants to help the world to be a better place and see that all people have access to financial services that help to empower them. Technology is now at a point where anyone should have access to banking services and not be intimidated by monthly maintenance fees, page after page of information required to open an account, or an inconvenient location! There are so many amazing companies and entrepreneurs out there looking to change this and this book is a blueprint to do just that. I went into the book knowing very little about financial inclusion and now I feel that I can explain it to anyone. It is an informative, inspirational, and innovative book for sure! Do you research America! There is hope…

  • Joseph Pi

    If consumers purchased big ticket items like a house or a car but obama focuces on buying gas to fuel savings dude. No

  • jenlp

    Some of these workers must be married or living with another worker, meaning their household could be at $40,000 on the lower end. That’s still tough obviously, but if you have a couple bringing in $40,000 each, they can have a decent life in a small town.

    • Folwart

      If they actually took home 40k, don’t forget taxes and rising cost of living. The smaller the city, the fewer people making tgat kind of money there. That’s an awful lot of fantasy.

  • Peter R Taft

    I have read a lot of these types of articles, most all with a totally pessimistic view of the future. The one item I have seen little of is any economic modelling of how such economies would work. One way it can’t operate is to have no one work yet have money to buy the product created by robots. Most comments talk about the government will provide the subsidies to buy. However, the government can only get taxes when someone or some corporation has sufficient income to be both taxed and leave enough income for the person or corporation to live on. In other words, there must always be some equilibrium where people are employed and robots will do tasks that are easy to automate. Indeed, robots may be able to do almost all the jobs, but that does not mean that they will. Even now, economies differ as to the amount of automation used. Where labor is cheaper, robots are not used. Where artistic talents are required, robots can’t be used. Many areas are getting more personalized where mass production is not the answer. Medicine is becoming more individualized rather than mass produced. Services will always have huge employment because they are based on personal interchange, salesmanship, figuring out individual relationships in marriage, or other unions raising and educating children. What will become a premium is education. Democrats control almost all the inner cities in the country. They are warehousing the poor, gangs, and crime on the scale of a 3rd world country. The human capital being wasted is on a massive scale. It is my greatest wish they they could create incentives for the special interests that support their political machine to turn the warehouse into a productive enterprise. That is a much greater challenge than worrying that robots will create a human wasteland.

  • Epicurious

    Are you living in the 50s? Most families have at least two wage earners. That means most families make under $60k. Still within middle class range. Your blog deliberately distorts this.

    • technoreaper

      What planet are you on?

    • Folwart

      So you need to partner up to make it? Gotta love the push to save gynocentrism. You didn’t account for fakeflation or it taking twice the time at the workplace to earn the same amount since that’s now 2 people working at half the rate.

      In North Dakota we had a fairly stable economy until the oil did a hit and run on us. Now I pay $1100 in rent and food prices are ridiculous. After taxes those people making 30k are making a bit over 20k. Buy a 150,000 dollar house and 20,000 car on that. There isn’t a house that isn’t condemnable under 150,000 here. 200,000+ is more common. Wages rose, but only by maybe 60% while the cost of living tripled. That’s the fames that are being played to fool tools like you. Wake up, Bub.

  • Bill_SF

    If an average worker makes $30k per year, would you not then say that an average family of 4 or 5 then makes about $60k per year? Or at least somewhere between $30k and $60k depending on how much the other spouse works?

  • Uselesseater

    i use to make over 100 k now iam lucky if i make 25k..Our government our nothing but a bunch of paid off crooks that needs to be all on a island and bombed.

  • Sharon Reddy

    So, this entire discussion went off the deep end on the word ‘revolution.’ 3,000 science fiction authors and 200 years of history in this country define that term as the people stomping on wealth inequality, crony capitalism and corruption of our government through the influence of money. Vast change is coming. Nothing like this has ever happened before. The change from the “Agricultural Age” to the “Industrial Age” was minor in comparison. Humans are leaving the first great age, the Fire Age, in which light and power were produced by burning vegetation and its fossilized remains. Big oil is losing its grip, as individuals and countries reduce dependence on it. Nomads in Mongolia have solar panels and dependable electricity. (reminder: solar cells can now be 3D printed on ‘film’) Take a look at the Tesla ‘power wall.’ Big business, especially big oil, is grabbing everything it can, to maintain control and the whole ‘hate those people’ is because they won’t need many workers, so starving them and having them kill each other off is just ‘practical,’ the way population has always been reduced. If you want change, it’s unavoidable. Decide now if that change will be toward the higher quality of life, for all people, or

    hope you’re one off the servants the masters decide to feed and protect.
    Reference: Toffler, Fuller, Chomsky, Rifkin, Hawking, Piketty and the independent science fiction authors of the world.

  • eagle keeper

    The law of diminishing returns. Regardless of political party, one has to consider the ability of an individual or a family being able to keep up with ever increasing food costs for example. I realize the fed says inflation is zero % right? So what happens to businesses who expect people to keep purchasing the items they have for sale? New cars for example are out of reach of most working families today. Go by any car lot and look at all the new ones for sale. Our economy is in pretty bad shape and its not getting any better. Can any politician fix it? I doubt it very much.

  • Thomas Las Cola

    Ok this is definitely sad..I have experience on both sides of this coin. I grew up in a poor family every penny my family had went to keeping a roof over our head. No avenues for help.. but I got a good job working as a havc technican was saving up to get a place and start my life. But then my mother had a stroke dad and mom couldn’t afford the costs I helped to make sure my mom could get better. Two years later my father died.. so with me being the youngest child I had to take care of it nobody would help especially my extended family. Was fired Last everything now I’m one step from homelessness and can’t get any benefits from the state cuz my mother makes just over the guidelines to receive addtional funds.. it’s shocks me that I was a contributing member of society for 6 years and then when I need help the most to get back to where I need to be I am denied while people listed as refugees or immigrants get thousands of tax free dollars and 5 year tax breaks.. I have tried almost everything except killing myself as that’s not in my makeup with me still caring for my mother. And everybody says oh it’s your fault u did this to your self.. well I guess you can say so but without knowledge and not learning it in school how could I have been prepared for my dad dying and mom having a stroke in the a one year span. So you see. Welfare programs that actually work and that people like me can actually receive is a necessity to gain stable footing to look for and regain skills to get back to work. companies should pay they workers fairly a decent living wage. Give people the chance to train and grow with your company.. it’s the reason people leave a job as soon as they can cause it’s not there anymore… Lastly it’s not one person did this or did not. Our culture has shifted from caring to I’m srry but it’s not worth my time to last thought is one the news the other day I heard that 5% unemployment rate is ideal.. that’s shocking when 100 million people out of work is considered ideal.

  • madisontruth

    It’s time to confront the corporate apologists.

  • buckingelephant

    Why should anyone care about us working ‘middle class.’ As long as we keep trudging off to work, paying taxes and agree with all the demands of the ‘special’ minorities’, in this country who offer us nothing in return except hate and out stretched hands, we’re good, right? My husband’s $12.98 an hour job at the university and my not working, chronic illness, doesn’t give us a lot of ‘disposable income.’ But that’s OK, as long as the illegals and the BLM supporters get theirs while we pay for it, why should I be so ungrateful?

  • pigbitinmad

    “Porn” might be a good career option for someone just out of college. (It doesn’t work so much if you are over 55 unless you can be the “exploiter.” Until we can get people to stop buying from corporations, this will never end. I do not buy anything made by General Mills, Kraft or any of those conglomerates. It can be done. And you also have to give up your dependence on Amazon, Uber, Air B&B…all the stupid shit that Silicon Valley does (or if you use social media, make sure they never get a dime from you and use a realistic sounding “fake” name). Go shop at a Barnes & Noble near you.

    No, you cannot completely Boycott everything, but you can stop going to Walmart and you can cut back your purchases 90% by just doing without all that junk. If we bankrupt these companies they won’t even have any money to pay the coolie labor. Something could step into the vaccum

    • PillCosby

      Sad thing is people will never come together like this. Our country is in a daze.

  • I advise every cashier, grocery sacker, High School student, car wash detailer to start their own business; invent something, improve a process or existing product.

    • Folwart

      Great idea on paper, difficult to actualize when many of those people are living check to check trying to stay afloat if not sinking into debt. There are days I hear or witness so much impossibly insane events occurring, decisions being made or precedents being set that I find it very difficult to take life seriously.

  • Emily Anderson

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  • next future, Good Job

  • The REAL Donald Trump

    Welcome to Reagan’s legacy.

    • PillCosby


  • Patrick F. Flynn, Jr.

    As to the revolution talk, below: “You can prepare the horse for battle, but victory belongs to the Lord” Why should anything work if we’ve turned our backs on God? I think that is the overall reason why the wheels are coming off of America.
    Our founding revolution was led by many people of faith. Perhaps if we repent and turn To God?
    Otherwise, it’s the elites that are creating the unrest to install the Strong Man (grab even More Power for themselves). Chaos is their tool. The revolution will serve their purposes

  • JonathonGalt

    Government, Left, Right, Democrat, Republican, is not the solution to our problems, it is the source. The real solution historically proven, American revolution, French revolution, and many others, has always been the people who finally stand up and take/retake control and responsibility of their lives.

  • Animus

    As long as there are people who are allowed to impose and extort (Government) this will continue to happen. If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem

  • shakespeare turner

    Most Americans are too comfortable, lazy, and scared to fight against the rich elites in our country. The day a revolution starts will be the day I have faith in our brainwashed country.

    • Folwart

      It’s tough to find people willing to talk about it let alone take action unfortunately. I’ve been trying for years. At best they feign interest, then go bury their heads back in the matrix as if the conversation we just had was the entertaining distraction from “reality”. I’d throw in an ‘lol’ there, but it’s really not amusing anymore.

      Most people follow. Social corruption is perpetrated by few and resisted by few. The winners are those that learn to shepherd enough of the flock to hold or seize the upper hand.

      People think they are smart and they know something I don’t. Their favorite seems to be “we have it pretty good here”. I’m not blind to the world. I recognize what we have today. The difference between them and myself is that I’m willing to fight to make sure I have it tomorrow. These sloths won’t act until it’s too late, until they have lost it. They are reactive.

      Breaking through the cognitive dissonance with brute force essentially means waiting until the reality hits us all square in the nose and it’s too late. Only they can convince themselves of anything, nobody can convince them. It takes too much individual attention over a long period of time to coax them into coming to the conclusion on their own. I’m hoping there are others out there having these conversations with others face to face that I can’t seem to have outside of a few online interactions.

  • TrololololJCDL

    ive been making around $10,000-$11,000 annually for last 4 years, it’s not fun when you are on the brink of going to the streets with a BA and MS degrees. Last year I made $9,500.00, so my IRS check will be only 950 =-( i wouldnt mind an extra 50 =-(

    • PillCosby

      God Bless You, it’s people like you and me that are invisible in this society. The people who work hard and honest, and still can’t get ahead. I graduated from undergrad Phi Beta Kappa and all that good stuff. You know what those honors mean to me now? Absolutely nothing. We just got to find a way to make it on our own.

  • ando

    It’s intentional and it was done by both parties.

  • mscheaf

    But at least the top .01% are richer than ever and that’s all that matters to the politicians they own and the brainwashed dumbasses that support said politicians

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  • Alessahdro

    I totally agree. World wars have been the solution to this kind of crisis so far. Bad thing.

    But nowdays would be a bit different scenario, imho. Unless they will mass destroy technology, pushing human race several centuries back, the problem of mass unemployment would rise again soon.
    The only solution is changing the social and economic paradigm towards a completely different economy
    where one of the non-negotiable values is the human life and not a value-less piece of paper we call “money”, which was introduced as a means of exchanging human values, skills, ideas, not beeing a value itself.

    And this can be done only via a cultural revolution by the masses not the governments that would love to solve this kind of things engaging a battle of the have-nots, as always. History docet.

    We shed enough blood with violent revolutions and usually results don’t last fo so long.

    People in the army should be the first envolved in this cultural change of mind, as they are the ones who let the few take over life of the many.

    • PillCosby

      Man, your comment is one of the most intelligent comments I have ever read. People tend to forget that money, as well as a lot of things in society, are man made. Meaning there is nothing divine about it. We live in a world that devalues human life. When you have this many people, who are trying to do better and reach another level, living in poverty, then capitalism has failed. We need leaders like you in the world, who value human life above anything else. I believe if a person works hard, they should at least be able to provide their family shelter, food, clothing, and have a little bit to save. That’s all most people ask for.

  • Dominic Quintana

    As much as I agree with your disdain for the TPP, it’s pretty disingenuous to ignore the elephant in the room (pun intended). Our nation didn’t just stumble into this mess. It’s been the trickle-down Reaganomics poison that our country has been force-fed by the Republican party for the past 35 years.
    Add to that, we have a corrupted Congress who is on the take from corporations and oligarchs and it’s no wonder why the middle class in this country is a dying breed.
    My advice to young adults, or all adults for that matter? Vote. In every election, big or small. And never, never, never vote Republican.

  • Unreal

    That 51 percent needs to wise up and realize that voting for Republicans and their anti-worker anti-middle class policies is only hurting them more. And those of us who call ourselves Democrats need to demand our so called leaders start giving more than lip service to middle class.

  • EndUser2015

    …Are you freaking serious?… the writing has been on the wall about this for awhile; if you are working a manual labor job you can bet you are going to be screwed out of things. Best one can hope for is learning a niche skill in technology maintaining these systems that run those robots… learn how to write automation to streamline your job because it shows value for ‘YOU’ the days of companies giving a darn about their workforce is over…they only care about HOW MUCH you can make them and how much is your take… Sorry but my sympathy for those left behind is ZERO… also I can say Don’t have kids or have only 1 … 50k to support a family of 4? … what freaking planet did that get measured on… that would barely pay the mortgage on my condo no to mention that assumes I have nothing happen badly during the year to take away cash… now OBAMACARE taking another $500 out of my monthly income and I GET ZERO REFUND on that … damn I can say this I am sick and tired of supporting dead of the dead ….weight of America and only care what you all can do for me as no one cares about my well being or just what they can steal! … so why should I care about the rest of you? … darn we need a license to breed policy in this country as these welfare and government teet babies should have been aborted!

    • PillCosby

      “I have no desire to breed another mouth into this screwed up world that will have a hard life regardless of how much I work myself to the bone to provide for it because I have so many government anchor babies to support already!” Well said. I will not bring a child into this world knowing how hard it is to make it through this life for some selfish reason of having a child as some sort of life accomplishment.

  • If people who are suffering from unemployment, low income, etc. want a better job/life/future, they have to be willing to move to another city, state, or even country.

    If they want to stay where they are, then they should not complain where they work, how much money they earn, and so on.

    We can choose the actions that come with good/bad consequences or we can choose the good consequences that require us to do what we have to do for survival.

    If a husband and father has to move to another state or country for a job that pays him more money to take care of his wife and kid(s), then he should do it. Otherwise, all of them may suffer.

  • New York Guy

    After the economic crisis, 90% of the middle class became poor, and 5% of the middle class became rich. That leaves 5% of the middle class in the middle class. These days, you are either wealthy, work for the government and are middle class, or are poor and dead broke. That is pretty much it. Unfortunately, if you are poor and dead broke, you are financing the middle class government workers. Call me crazy, but I don’t think the public sector was ever supposed to be richer than the private sector who finances it. That would be like making more money than your boss. And don’t even get me started on all the wasteful spending and useless, overpaid, unnecessary government jobs and bureaus.

    So yea. Get a government job, retire in 20 years with a pension @ 40/50 years old; or make $30k for the rest of your life and work til you die, jumping job to job and going months without health coverage every year. YAY!

  • PillCosby

    This is the kind of world and economy that makes you scared to have kids. How many people have applied to jobs that act like your education doesn’t exist? I have.

  • PillCosby

    When we were all in school we were taught we could all make it. That is, have a successful career, family, and be financially stable. So a lot of us went to college, went to grad school, some even went to grad school twice, but for some people, even with all that education, they still could not get ahead. The old saying goes “Money makes the world go round.” The true statement is that “Cheap labor makes the world go round.” If it was not for cheap labor, almost slave-like labor, how many businesses and corporations would be successful? My guess is not that many. The truth is that under our current economic system, all of us are not meant to succeed, no matter how hard we try. The economic crises of 2008 reshaped America’s economy where the middle class’ accomplishments are valued less in society, meaning that for some people, no matter what you have accomplished in life you will not be able to find a decent job ever again. Let’s not forget that most of the world’s population lives in poverty, some in excruciating poverty. We need an economic system that states as long as a person works hard they will be able to provide shelter, food, clothing for their family. People complain about government assistance, but the truth of the matter is that the government is making up for the failure of capitalism. Many people on government assistance do work, they just cannot make enough to cover the extremely high costs of living. Poverty does not equal laziness. I would argue that most people are not greedy. Most people just want an opportunity to provide for their family, but current conditions make that very hard, because we have a government that doesn’t have our best interest in mind. Now this is a very general statement, but I’m sure a lot of people can relate to it.

  • Jim sanders

    Y’all are communist liberal freaks. If someone earned their money then fine. They pay taxes just like the rest of us so u have no right to want to take it away. All that is is jealousy and laziness. If you only make 20k a year that’s what you deserve because u fucked around as a kid and didn’t get your education. 20k a year is above the poverty line you just have to live like you make 20k and not go to the mall every weekend, eat out, and then ask someone for a handout. All you who comment on this are the lazy shits who re elected obama and are tearing this country to shreds.

  • paul

    we let the Republicans implement the right to work programs as result people did not have to join the union weakening the unions so the right got what they wanted lower pay for workers bigger bonuses for executives if its ceo can get 80 million dollar bonuses, and similar bonuses for the board the afford to pay $30 an hour like they used to

  • paul

    With all those people who don’t really know what’s going on please wake up before it’s all gone

  • Mohsen Hanna

    Refreshing The Dream Again

    1- Reorganized the mortgages and trading market
    2- New design for the high tech machines for making balance between using different source of energy including the work force power

    3- Unemployed compensation fee percentages added to the cost of products of high tech machine production
    4- Review the benefit balance between : investors benefits ; customers benefits ; work force benefits ; national community benefits; international community benefits too.
    5- Decrease the health insurance cost as result of review the technical medical services and medicine cost.

    6- Adjust the number of trading license in every city to keep the employed opportunities . the employees income will keep the safety of the national market and decrease the government bill for social services .
    7- Adjust the balance between the cost of : pollution control( as result of manufacturing ); unemployment control and poverty control.

  • Patricio Da Silva

    What a lot of people fail to notice is how much better we were, in economic terms ( not talking about social progress ) during the 50s when the 1 % were taxed at 90%. when minimum wage was, adjusting for inflation, about $10 per hour, unemployment was less than 4%. The gradual decline of the middle class corresponds to the gradual chipping away of the progressive tax system, largely the result of conservative legislators. Clearly, trickle down is a misnomer, it’s trickle up, from the poor to the rich, but it’s not a trickle, it’s a shovel, thanks to Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, and their influence resulting in Reagonomics. I really bought the libertarian philosophy. What I’ve realized, in my 64 years, is that libertarianism is a de facto means for the rich to exploit the poor with impunity.

    This sh*t is got to stop. I used to be a Milton Friedman believer, even wrote a glowing book report on his book, “Free To Choose” back in ’82, when I was in college, and I even voted for Reagan. In retrospect, I can see clearly now, that Keynes had it right, all along.

  • Kikiyo Komadori

    Okay, but if the average worker (plural) makes 30k, then a couple together would be earning 60k for a single household. According to what’s stated in this article should be enough to support a family of 4-5 within reasonable means (and assuming you don’t live in a ridiculously high cost area like NY or LA). You may not be able to buy 2 brand new cars, a 300K house, and go to Starbucks everyday, but you can still get by comfortably.

    I will say though having a job sans health benefits can hurt a little. Family insurance has skyrocketed, my coworker currently can’t even find a plan for less than $1500/month for her family of four. Both her and her husband work but neither have company health insurance benefits.

  • Denis Barnave

    America was built by class differences and slavery. There are 102.6 unemployed adults in the US as a result of the elite commercial classes’ jealousy. Jealousy is a mental illness. The elite in the nation are trying to imitate Pericles…

  • Denis Barnave

    The best advice is to learn how to speak different langauages fluently.

  • George

    Joe Villanova, exactly, you’ve done nothing, probably bummed around throughout high school and didn’t take advantage of the education wealthy people pay get taxed up the ass to provide. Therefore you left high school with the attitude you wanted to make quick cash. Turns out when you don’t have an advanced education in this country, it is difficult to succeed. Do I know how to fix a toilet? No I don’t. Do I doubt that if I read up on it I could easily learn? Without a doubt. Wake the fuck up and realize that although many lower class individuals have done nothing to deserve their situation, a majority of teens just squander our greatest opportunity as americans: FREE EDUCATION. Those who take advantage of that education generally earn scholarships, like myself, and find themselves getting jobs that few in the world posses both the intellect and diligent work efforts to complete on a day to day basis. Although opportunity in this country is not universal, POTENTIAL is universal. Yes the Koch’s are fifthy rich, yes the walton’s are filthy rich. You don’t want the Walton’s to be so rich? Stop shopping at Walmart. You don’t want the Koch’s to be so rich? Well our country runs on their minerals and components of their refining process. Anybody who says “They have enough money” will never make a lot of money and will never be successful. It’s called america and it’s called capitalism. Go move to France if you want to live in a socialist economy where everybody is equal and the private sector doesn’t exist.

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  • Yanni Sorolov

    And those who protests living as a slave laborer in povert , will make a police officer feel threatened and be summarily executed.

  • Yanni Sorolov

    There is no bread for the poor, then Let them eat cake.

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  • Jay Brewer

    Young people need to get training/college degrees in fields that pay well. I know a 23 year old that went to work for AMD right out of college and makes $100,000 a year. Good jobs are there for folks that do what needs to be done to get them.

    • Beth Larsen

      To an extent they are. I looked into my chosen profession before going to school, had a Plan B in case it didn’t work, and then rocked the socks off of my degree. Now I’m out, the jobs pay less and are less plentiful, require more experience than they did before, and Plan B disappeared. Sometimes you can do everything right, and still have it not work out. Happy for your friend, though.

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  • John Andersen

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  • Joebobsmitty

    Automation will bring jobs back from Asia. The jobs will be different from before. People simply cannot make the gadgets the world desires. As the baby boomers retire and wages continue to increase in Asia, there will be a deficit in the number of skilled workers unless we seriously invest in vocational training at younger ages…16 or so. This fantasy of getting a BA in BS in order to get a good paying job has to end. Skilled vocations and skilled degrees should get priority for federal and state financial aid

    • Beth Larsen

      As someone holding a fantasy Bachelor of Arts degree – I like your idea. I had to learn my lesson the hard way like so many others, but it would be nice if we quit pretending as a nation overall that college is the door to a better life. It’s a waste of time, sinks you into debt, and props up colleges as a business… nothing more.
      I’m not referring to the obvious jobs that need a degree… doctors, etc.

  • King43

    Big Business is killing the middle class. SMH. As profits soar WAGES have stagnated. The republicans and democrats are robbing us blind. But anyone who says that must be crazy!

  • Charlie Crash

    AGENDA: The US government is taxing the private industries by increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hr, and therefore increased tax revenue.

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  • concerned citizen


    • Beth Larsen

      The math is sound. I’ll try to explain –

      If 38% of people made less than $20,000 last year, then 13% made between 20,000 and 30,000 – that adds up to be 51% making less than $30,000. Each level is included in the next one, see? If you’re making less than 20,000 a year – you can also be included in the group that makes less than $30,000, right?

      Then if you look at the next level – 11% of people made between 30,000 and 40,000, so then you add that 11% into the overall percentage so far, and say that 62% of Americans made less than 40,000.

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  • Beth Larsen

    I think one thing we need is a minimum wage tied specifically to degrees and experience. We’re hearing a lot of arguments right now about increasing the minimum wage to a livable income, but I’m looking for work and seeing an awful lot of jobs that require a degree, experience, and then offer you what McDonald’s pays. Someone needs to force these companies to either pay for what they want or train their people.

    Most of the discussions I see focus on the person who is working as a maid or a fast food worker. I really haven’t seen much about the fact that highly skilled workers are getting screwed in this economy, too. If just the minimum wage is raised, there’s going to be a lot of people expecting a four-year degree, 5+ years of experience, and paying minimum wage.

    I think part of this is also related to supply and demand. There’s so many people who want these jobs, that they increase education and experience requirements as an easy way to narrow the field.

  • Blown Away


  • Blown Away

    Vote for a person who doesn’t have the entire banking system banking his run for office!!! Secondly, let’s try not to be a senator in that has not been in office for less than a year. Thirdly, let’s stop illegal aliens from receiving benefits that we pay for!!. Two people were arrested in MA and had fake licenses. They also had Snap benefits card so while dealing drugs; they also feed their families on our dollar. Trump has it right; BUILD THE WALL!!!

  • Sam Clemenz

    It is rather sad. Hey, but what can you do? ( This seems to be the American attitude ). Economic and societal collapse are at hand for this so called Super Power. When you cannot ensure basic things for the mass of your citizens such as: health, affordable education, salaries that are on par with cost of living and a general feeling of security and hope for a better future .. well … you’ve failed. This didn’t start 8 years ago, or with either of the Bushes (American historical perspective seems to be rather short .. so just making that point). In fact, perhaps one of your last fine leaders, Eisenhower warned of the problems the Military Industrial complex posed for future generations. In very American fashion, you steamed ahead without considering how you were impacting your future generations or health as a nation. America is now closer to an oligarchy and i predict will soon be a tyrannical nation. The alienation of your class structure will cause failure since that, historically, is the foundation for the long term success of any civilization. The greatest threat America no faces is itself. Sad, isn’t it. It likes to blame others, but in fact it no longer espouses any principles that will grow it as a power. Actually, as most of the world can see now, America is very weak. Eonomicaly, Socially, Politically and Spiritually. If you travel the world, this is what they see — Not the media spin here. So, it is sad that American students are saddled with high debt, but in reality it is the least of their problems in the crumbling republic that is America. Let’s see if it repairs itself, but as long as you have populist tyrants who curse immigration, which in fact is how it’s industrial and economic power was supported, lol, I doubt it will. The cracks revealed themselves several decades ago, they are widening now and all things come to an end. In the history books of course, America will not be considered one of the Great Empires. History will show that the cancer that is racism, hate, greed and a general apathy for the dignity of your fellow man eventually caused them to destroy themselves.

    Go to source web page>>

  • GaryReber

    This is the result of dwindling income opportunities for the vast majority of Americans as the effects of globalization pitting for lower wage paid foreigners in Mexico, China, India, and other developing countries against American workers, particularly in manufacturing and multi-national corporation services, continue to ramp and cause economic inequality. Along with this trend, physical productive capital (the non-human means of producing products and services) is doing ever more of the work, which produces wealth and thus income to those who OWN productive capital assets.

    Over the past century there has been an ever-accelerating shift to productive capital––which reflects tectonic shifts in the technologies of production. People invented “tools” to reduce toil, enable otherwise impossible production, create new highly automated industries, and significantly change the way in which products and services are produced from labor intensive to capital intensive – the core function of technological invention and innovation. Most changes in the productive capacity of the world since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution can be attributed to technological improvements in our capital assets, and a relatively diminishing proportion to human labor. Capital does not “enhance” labor productivity (labor’s ability to produce economic goods). In fact, the opposite is true. It makes many forms of labor unnecessary.

    Furthermore, productive capital is increasingly the source of the world’s economic growth and, therefore, should become the source of added property ownership incomes for all. One can postulate that if both labor and capital are independent factors of production, and if capital’s proportionate contributions are increasing relative to that of labor, then equality of opportunity and economic justice demands that the right to property (and access to the means of acquiring and possessing property) must in justice be extended to all. Yet, sadly, the American people and its leaders still pretend to believe that labor is becoming more productive, and ignore the necessity to broaden personal ownership of wealth-creating, income-producing capital assets simultaneously with the growth of the American economy.

    To put this in context, it is important to briefly note that throughout history, man has endeavored to overpower the time constraints of physical and biological processes. It is now an accepted fact that accelerated scientific and technological innovation has directly led to a speeding up of all physical and social processes in the name of progress. The competitive drive has led to a frantic national and international chase for more efficient methods of production and distribution. In the process, humanity has pushed to develop even more powerful technologies, on the assumption that such technologies would accomplish more and more useful functions in less time. The results have been a dramatic acceleration of change and concentration of wealth ownership.

    The productive capital factor input to creating products and services is statistically 90 to 98 percent. In concentrated capital ownership terms, roughly 1 percent own 50 percent of the corporate wealth with 10 percent owning 90 percent. This leaves 90 percent of the people scrambling for the last 10 percent, with them dependent on their labor worker wages to purchase capital assets. Thus, we have the great bulk of the people providing a mere 10 percent or less of the productive input. Contrast that to the less than 5 percent who own all the productive capital providing 90 percent or more of the productive input, and who initiate and oversee most of the technological advances that replace labor work by workers with capital work by the owners of productive capital assets. As a result, the trend has been to diminish the importance of employment with productive capital ownership concentrating faster than ever, while technological change makes physical capital ever more productive. Corporate decision makers know this, whether in the United States or China, or anywhere organized assemblies of people engage in production. Technology is an easier and faster way to get a job done. Because technology increases the profitability of companies throughout the world, technology always has the advantage over human labor when the costs of them are the same. But because this is not well understood, what we as a society have been doing is to continually shift the work burden from people labor to real physical capital while distributing the earning capacity of physical capital’s work (via capital ownership of stock in corporations) to non-owners through make-work job creation, minimum wage requirements, and welfare programs. Such policies do not function effectively.

    For a more in-depth analysis see my article “Economic Democracy And Binary Economics: Solutions For A Troubled Nation and Economy” at

  • Cher
  • David DeCelle


  • Krista

    When we get to the point when machines take over the majority of the jobs, we’re going to have to reset our mindset and stop thinking that we live to work. Instead, everyone will have to have their basic needs met, food, shelter, clothing, healthcare… and we’ll have to change our focus to improving society, through art, music, theoretical sciences, etc. We have to become like Star Trek where money doesn’t exist, and people just live. It all the manual labor is taken care of by machines, why shouldn’t everyone share in the materials produced?

  • Moto5858

    My advice? Get out while you can. Germany, Denmark, Canada. Our country is a damn mess.

  • ThinkAgain17

    Just read another article that looks at this from an interesting historical perspective :

    “This created a potentially explosive situation for landowners, as oppressed workers quickly outnumbered the upper classes. What was to prevent freed whites, indentured servants, and African slaves from joining forces against the tyranny of their masters? As Edmund S. Morgan says in his book American Slavery, American Freedom, “The answer to the problem, obvious if unspoken and only gradually recognized, was racism, to separate dangerous free whites from dangerous slave blacks by a screen of racial contempt.”

    In “The Whiting of Euro-Americans: A Divide and Conquer Strategy,” the Rev. Dr. Thandeka notes: Not surprisingly, however, poor whites never became the economic equals of the elite. Though both groups’ economic status rose, the gap between the wealthy and poor widened as a result of slave productivity. Thus, poor whites’ belief that they now shared status and dignity with their social betters was largely illusory….With whites and Blacks divided, the wealthy elite prospered for the next two hundred years.”

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  • Naaman

    So what do we tell young people for their future what we recommend. The problem is lack of financial education. We have a government that does not know how to manage money. From Obama on down we have all these leaders with all these degrees that don’t have a clue about how to manage our tax payer money. We don’t teach our young people about money in our school. We don’t how to make money work for you not you working for money. Many Americans want the government to give them everything and to fix their problems. The fix Everyone needs an online internet business that produces 50% of your income. Find one you like get behind it and work it. Take your favorite hobby and figure out away to make money with it. (internet). I don’t have a college degree but I do know how to make money using the internet. Be creative. No one can take of you but you. Gotta go Hawaii is great this time of year.

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  • Juan Reynoso

    By Juan Reynoso – WTP- activist.
    The fact is that most Americans are being brainwash and
    indoctrinate into believing that Capitalism and the neo liberalism economic
    system is better than Democrat socialism.
    Neoliberalism, Is the Republicans and Democrats politico-economic
    theory favoring free trade, privatization, minimal government intervention in
    business and the reduced of public expenditure on social services and
    education. This economic politico theory is the result of the slavery of the
    American working class and the huge inequality of wealth and income in the U.S.
    The only winners of this ill neo liberal economic system are the oligarchs, the
    elite U.S. Corporations, the Bankers and the corrupt Washington politicians
    that betray the American people.
    The Neo-Liberalist,
    place money and power before the people,
    they believe that the private sector “Corporations, the Banking
    system and all services including the communication system should be privatized
    to benefit the investors and owners and
    not the general public; they believe that every man is responsible for
    their economic and welfare and that they do not have any responsibility toward
    the community and the citizens of this country, they do not want any government
    controls so they can exploit the community to enrich themselves. The result of
    this ill system was the economic catastrophe of 2008 and the continuation of
    this ill system will be the down fall of the Dollar and the world economic, in
    2016 – 2017.
    Now Democrat socialism is placing the people before given
    money and power to the few oligarchs and corporate elite that control our
    country. This economic system is essential to stop the concentration of wealth
    and benefit the whole country by promoting education, good jobs, living wages,
    quality of life, health and minimize poverty. The Neo-liberalism was
    implemented by Ronald Reagan and followed by all presidents, this economic
    system give control of the country to the oligarchs and the elite multinational
    corporations to enrich themselves, making millions of Americans economic slaves
    by controlling labor the income of the American working class and the market
    place. Neo-Liberalism opens the gate for the greedy corporations to
    monopolized, control commerce and destroys small business to eradicate
    competition. America today is a conglomerate of elite business monopoly that
    controls our economic and destroyed the dream of millions of Americans that today
    live in poverty and extreme poverty. The
    choice is ours; to continue on this path of self-destruction and continue
    promoting this Neo-Liberalist system of greed and destruction or change to a Democrat
    more social economic system that will be beneficial to all Americans and not
    the few oligarchs that control our country.

    Democrat socialism.

    We can learn a lot about public policy
    from the Nordic nations

    Better education for all

    U.S. Politicians from both right and
    left could learn from the Nordic countries

    The Nordic countries could teach us
    about teamwork in education

    The Media is a propaganda machinery of
    the oligarchs that control our country.

    What’s happening to the American
    Dream?. Why we become economic slaves.

    The American Dream? Long Gone!

    Goodbye Middle Class

  • Zach K.

    If you click on the link from the SSA statistics, you can see that the 51% stat is the lowest since they started taking statistics in 1989. Some of this can be chalked up to inflation, but that just means the way the stat is described should be adjusted.

  • As4earl

    The only thing they missed was the 25 million foreign workers

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  • Don Dressel

    Same old bullshit by our politicians
    Giving our jobs away through these idiotic agreements by catering to the big corporations!
    If people do not make enough who will buy their products???!!!

  • Don Dressel

    So sad that 1 percent of the people are so greedy
    They are destroying the wonderful country that we live in!

  • suzuki14

    Is there no administrator here? Moderator? I will pay to have Ken Meyer exterminated from this blog. If there if a God, please, get Ken Meyer off this site.

  • Kit Coronel

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  • Robert Arends

    I think of suicide often now because of this…

  • 220VOLTS

    These statistics make my blood boil. Young Americans have been sold a bill of goods. They think that they are all potential entrepreneurs with a bright future ahead. Guess what, Millennials? You are screwed.
    Back in the 60’s, a middle manager could earn the equivalent of cost of a home in Los Angeles in one year. Now a home without graffiti on the walls and bars and bars on the windows costs 500,000 dollars in LA.
    You people need to clean out that house of political prostitutes you call a Congress. Till then, you’ll need to go to Juarez Mexico to find employment.

  • This whole thing started with Ronald Reagan and his low-tax, trickle-down, and then offshore economy. Back when Jimmy Carter was President the average job had more than double the retail purchasing power that it does now.

    In 1979 at the age of 21 I was an apprentice lathe machinist working 50 hours per-week earning $9.31/hour, or triple the minimum wage at that time, with full company-paid benefits. My gross pay was about $500/week and my share of the rent for a decent 2-BR suburban townhouse was $100/month. I earned enough to buy a brand-new full-size Dodge van in 1978 at the age of 20 and to take a ski trip to Colorado too. In 1980 I started driving semis and in 1982 I was earning a steady $650/week making one round-trip weekly from Chicago to the East Coast plus full paid benefits too. In 1982 my share of the rent on a house in Birmingham, MI was $150/month.

    Fast-forward to 2007, when I am running twice as many miles and 60 hours per week instead of 45-50, and while I am earning $60K, my mortgage paymemt is now $1300/month, my car payment has also tripled since I owned my van, the cost of my health insurance has tripled since 2001, as has the cost of my utilities and groceries too. My wife and I own a house but are barely making ends meet. My wages are up by 20% since 2000, by 35% since 1994, and only by double above what I was making in 1982, even though the cost of living is up by 400-500% in those 25 years.

    During the Great Recession we lost about 80% of our Great Lakes area customers to bankruptcy, which made trucking very competitive. Over my trucking career I got to watch the slow death of American industry, taken out by free trade. The most I have made since 2007 is only about $52K, while costs and prices have skyrocketed. The price of diesel fuel came down and so did freight rates.

    At least we still own our home but now I getting worried that there may increasingly be less and less qualified buyers, as the income that young people earn today has only 40-50% of the retail purchasing power that the same job had in 1980, after 8 million-class industrial jobs got moved offshore and several million more replaced by technology. We are rapidly turning into a very-competitive small service economy where only successful business owners will have more than a lower middle class income.

    The cost of higher education is up by about 1500% since 1975 when I earned $4.50/hour as a gas station night manager at age 18, back when my share of the rent was only $50/month. Today my youngest son and his girlfriend are moving into an apartment in a trendy part of town. While both kids are assistant managers at the service businesses that they work at, their combimed net income is only triple the $1500/month rent paymemt for a 2-BR apartment. That 2-BR apartment is more than our house payment for a 4000-sf suburban house. How will they ever save any money and buy a house with average home prices rising by 15%/year in Denver while wage growth is only 3-5%/year? They will be lucky if they can hang onto that apartment after the rent rises by another $500 in a couple more years.

    America is rapidly turning into the same robber-baron slave-labor society that our grandparents fought against a century ago. Remember when they marched against machine guns trying to get a raise or safer working conditions? We have all forgetten their struggle, and as such are condemned to repeat it, especially after we can’t bring ourselves to elect the only guy running who wants to arrest the ongoing growth of income imequality and work to restore our middle-class security and respect.

    So who will it be, the alleged lesser of two neoliberal evils, Miss Warmonger herself, or the racist billionaire opposed to free trade? In both cases 90% of us aren’t going to do very well while the top 1% continues to rake us all over the hot coals. After just 4 years of either candidate the average bottom 90% American will be lucky if their purchasing power is still half of what it is today, while the temperature and sea-level keep rising as neither of them have a viable plan to deal with rapidly worsening climate change and rapidly-worsenimg water shortages across the Southwestern US and Mexico.

    The question is, how long should we wait to sell our house and our other retirement assets, given the obvious fact that young people won’t be able to afford to buy our house nor buy our retirement assets either?

  • Arlo Hennings

    I’m not trying to plug my own book, but I wrote a memoir about this situation. It’s called “Guitarlo”

  • hatemachine

    People are ridiculous….we should be living off the land….people should die at younger ages…and large scale societies should be broken into small communities where people actually know who their damn neighbor is..ultimately all who subscribe to modern society and enjoy the comforts are the ones raping this world…thanks for that..and thanks for making a world where now everyone who is born in “civilised” society is a slave from birth….good job smart people.

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  • Cassie230

    People spend so much time blaming the rich that they completely miss the point. In an effort to get cheap goods we have farmed out our middle class jobs (all classes participated in this). Historically the middle class was a stepping stone for people willing to work hard and improve their lot in life. I keep hearing the argument that this gives us cheap goods. What good are cheap goods if 41% of your citizens can only get jobs that allow them to live paycheck to paycheck. It’s time for people to realize that being able to buy a cheaper big screen tv isn’t as important has making sure our citizens have the opportunity to earn a livable wage in this county. We have allowed foreign and domestic investors to buy houses as an investment, driving up home prices, in areas like California, so high they are no longer attainable for most people. Great if you own a home, but there goes another part of the American dream. So next time that economist tells you that free trade is so important, ask yourself 1. Whose live style is that improving? 2. Is it more important that we have opportunities in this country for people to succeed, or will you just “die” if you can’t afford that latest iphone.

    My opinion is that increasing handouts isn’t nearly as important as increasing opportunities. It isn’t the fault of the rich – we have always had rick people. It’s that no one wants to sacrifice to insure the health of our country. Without a middle class, this country will surely die.

  • Jessica Lacy

    America’s founding values and the leadership traits that
    embodied them gave rise to the greatest nation on earth. It is through the
    resurrection of these essential qualities in every American—and a rejection of
    the pervasive attitude of entitlement and culture of complaint—that the spirit
    of America will once again empower its citizens and inspire the world. America
    can and must maintain a leadership role in the world economy. The health of the
    U.S. economy is inextricably linked to the economic health of the rest of the
    world. If America is not doing well, the rest of the world is affected. In an
    interconnected and increasingly competitive global environment, it is now more
    important than ever to commit ourselves to the core values and policies that
    have traditionally made America’s economy strong. Chris Salamone works to
    improve the lives of young people around the world through his many
    philanthropic endeavors Like holding Leadership programs for high School
    Students. Chris Salamone is a noted attorney, entrepreneur, social worker and author
    or two best seller books, one of them is Rescue America which focus on
    restructuring America.

  • scott

    The excuses corporations are using is 100% greed. As long as the upper management and investors are keeping there profits and pockets as fat as possible and trickle down the pennies to the workers they are satisfied. We as american workers are stuck with low wages, high insurance costs and going thru temp service, in which are killing and have killed the workers from getting good pay and benefits and using the excuses, to get buy paying no benefits, low wages and no paid vacations. America! How can this country be called the United states tell me whats United? The only unity I see is in the greedy corporations and poor wages. some jobs are paying the same or less than what jobs paid 25 years ago. People do not count on this changing, there are to many who never feel enough is enough. This country is in a very sad state and will not change anytime soon. They jobs are being created and that may be but they pay wages you would make as a High School Student, if you disagree check yourself either you are rich and greedy or just have no sense of reality. its FACTS.

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  • Criptor13

    Advice I would give to young people right now? I don’t know I am a young person and as such I feel there was more opportunities to everyone born just 10 years before me. Today I have a BA, in a field that doesn’t need anyone, living in a big city where competition is so tough moving seems like a great option. But I can’t afford to do so because I bought a BA, and tried to ride out the recession. every day the prospect of committing suicide looks better. At least then, the world will have one less human living without a purpose. I took a few years off to heal from major surgery. During the first year I took off I had so many people call me for jobs I couldn’t keep up but because I was going through surgery I couldn’t take any of them. Today now that I’m healed and willing to work anywhere, I am faced with the prospect of “well you were not working during your surgery so your skills are useless” and therefore I won’t be hired. I was lucky to get a job in a factory working 9 hours a day with co-workers who also are in work release and treated me like dirt. Course I lost that job because of one of my surgeries. In two months I lose my car. Gotta love being overqualified for crap jobs, and underqualified for jobs I was trained for in the first place.

  • Follow @offensivedialog

    Our politicians have handed us what Mexican generals handed Mexico with Guadalupe Hidalgo: a bowl of shit. It may be time to vote for reincorporation of a new country.

  • Jay

    Still listening

  • Jay

    Just wondering of many of those people that make less then 30,000 dollars a what jobs are we talking about that they are seeking and or working. What skills do these people have, this is now an America where you need to have skills to become employed and stay employed having versatile skills keeps you employed. I do understand that there are some that fall into this category but they are in the minority. Many of these people are just got outta high school, want to work a minimum wage job, work with your hands, mindless work type blue collar workers who never took the next step to get higher education or to gain more skills relevant to jobs that are growing. Have we come to this place in America where we don’t hold the American who can’t get the job responsible.

  • Sad but true. Another factor is that more and more industries are hiring “independent contractors” instead of employees, which means we get zero benefits (paid sick days, health insurance, vacation, etc.) and also must pay the employer’s share of Social Security tax, putting us in the same or higher tax bracket as people making 10 times as much! Clearly this situation is not sustainable and something’s got to give.

  • ugh

    You should think about how often you use “right now.” After the third instance in five or so sentences I gave up.

  • DarkStarAz

    I think in the short run robotization will be very painful but eventually the robots will be doing everything which will lead to a much higher standard of living with much less work.

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  • Gail

    Now what we need is a flat tax so we can fill out a little post card and put a 49 cent stamp on it–really quick–just requires a bigger chunk of our income to pay–the rich pay less so they can add to their mansions and they can get another car – complete with chauffer.

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  • King43

    You can’t im not distracted lol

  • Born Again Anarchist

    How about the 62% of us making less than $40,000 a year take one day a year and lute all the state governor’s mansions, senators, congressmen’s, major’s, and chamber of commerce homes and burn them down. Not advocating killing anyone. They cannot arrest and kill all 62% of us in one day and some of us will get away with some new toys and maybe incriminating evidence of corruption to generate future income. Those making over $40,000 probably still have hope in their lives and should stay out of it.

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  • Helen

    Jefferson said every 250 years Americans should throw out the politicians and start fresh…… look it up