Kiev Announces Russian Invasion of Ukraine a Hoax?

Throughout this conflict every once in a while Ukrainian government officials have come clean about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

To the chagrin of the Obama Administration and NATO Russia has not invaded. This latest admission came twice today. Once by inference and the other a direct admission from Ukrainian Armed Forces Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Victor Muzhenko.

During a briefing with General Muzenko he announced that “To date, we have only the involvement of some members of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and Russian citizens that are part of illegal armed groups involved in the fighting. We are not fighting with the regular Russian Army. We have enough forces and means in order to inflict a final defeat even with illegal armed formation present. “- he said.

If that wasn’t embarrassing enough for the Poroshenko regime which has consistently stated Russia had invaded and that Ukraine is fighting the Russian Army, it was Petro Poroshenko’s own TV station Channel 5 news that broke the story!

Earlier in the day Ukrainian Military spokesman Lusenko said he was worried if a provocation happened Russia would justify bringing in the Russian army.

This was perfectly in line with General Muzenko’s statements which fully destroy western propaganda and agree the Russian invasion of Ukraine was a hoax.

What about the 37 Russian Invasions Last Year?

November 6th In an interview with Gromadske.TV, Markian Lubkivsky, the adviser to the head of the SBU (the Ukrainian version of the CIA) stated there are NO RUSSIAN TROOPS ON UKRANIAN SOIL! This unexpected announcement came as he fumbled with reporters’ questions on the subject. According to his statement, he said the SBU counted about 5000 Russian nationals, but not Russian soldiers in Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples Republics.

He further clarified that there were no organized Russian units in Donbass. The SBU thinks there are representatives of the Russian FSB (Russian CIA) and mentors who provide training and organization that grew the Novorussia army quickly in its fight with Ukraine.
He went on further to state that the SBU estimates the armies of Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples Republics are about 20-25 thousand strong.

Markian Lubkivsky’s official statement regarding a Russian invasion of Ukraine was made to the strongest nationalist reporter in Ukraine, Natasha Stanko.

Both LifeNews and RT are wondering openly how Petro Poroshenko’s Channel 5 News became the most refreshing Putinesque Propaganda outlet on the planet, if only for a few moments.

A few moments later Channel 5’s talking heads were suffering once again from Putin envy, and denied it ever happened.

Jen Psaki, aka Baghdad Betty has made no comment to Matt Cutts yet about the developing situation.

Stay tuned.

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  • legal eagle

    So … the un-ellected, forced-upon illegitimate government in Kiev lied. What a non starter; their entire existence has been one lie after the other. The whole plethora of lies about Russia has been spewed out by politicians and the MSM for months, and now that it looks like there really just might be a Russian presence in Ukraine to stop the genocide perpetrated by the liars in chief they decide a little truth might be in order ? Fool me once …

  • cettel

    Yet again, major breakthrough news reporting from George Eliason. But will we learn about it on this evening’s ABC, CBS, NBC, or cable TV ‘news’? The Ukrainian Government finally acknowledges that all of their previous claims (none of which were documented) that Russia has invaded Ukrainian territory, have been false. This is shocking! And it’s enormously important! The basis for all of Obama’s (and the EU’s) sanctions against Russia is fraudulent. Will The New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal — and Bloomberg ‘News,’ and ‘Public’ Television, and National ‘Public’ Radio — announce this stunning fact, to the American people?
    It would be just as likely as for the U.S. ‘news’ media to have acknowledged that they had stenographically ‘reported’ the Bush Administration’s lies that Saddam Hussein was building nuclear weapons and was supporting Al Qaeda.
    All that American TV and ‘news’papers are good for now is entertainment. And I don’t find them entertaining, either.

    • Ray Dee

      The sad thing is this happens not only in the US. Here in Germany all you read is “Ukraine is not where Putin stops”, “How long does it take till he conquers Poland” and “Putin sits alone at the lunch table” (picture on almost every major newspaper’s frontpage during the G8 or 20 event i cant remember it correctly)

      • truth

        I read in Germany though that the citizens there are calling the propaganda. And even journalists there are complaining why people aren’t buying it, which is immensely funny.

  • goingnowherefast

    As long as the government spokespeople and the corporate mainstream press control the narrative, and most people unfortunately look no further than these sources, this will not be an important story.

    We need to change this dynamic by finding a way to destroy the credibility of the corporate state. While it’s good to document slip ups like this and share them with a wider audience, too many still believe the official narrative. Example: there are still people who believe Iraq had WMDs and were involved in 911. Their minds have been filled up with so much garbage, nothing else penetrates.

    We need a bigger microphone!

    • Mij Swerdna

      Ya. Good luck 🙂

  • Kremlin Agent

    I’m from Russia. Dozens of Russian news websites have posted the information about this briefing. And what is more important even a lot of Ukrainian sites have done so (but as a usual i read in comments, “Who allowed this fucking moron making statements? He lies, the pro-Russian separatists are shooting in themselves” etc.) But you’ll not see this in your mass media because you’re among millions of people that were fooled. And yes, i haven’t found any info about it in NYT or any other large mass-media.

  • dou44

    Seems like the umpteenth time would be enough to topple the parade saavy neo- Nazi freaks in Kiev. I mean the US-UK have invaded Iraq 3 times with no success other than wrecking the countryside and causing Iraq to shrink in square km it can effectively control.

    • Vtran

      Yes, but unlike IRAQ, Russia, China, India do have WMD – far, far more than USA and UK
      And what of all these Sanctions – Russian troops in Ukraine ??
      Oh USA / UK up to necks in doggy poooo

      • dou44

        When is the RCB going to crash the NYC-London gangbankster cabal- sell off its US treasuries and buy Rubles with those dollars? That would rather quickly end this NATO military expansionist nonsense. Restore relations and mutually beneficial trade is my mantra.

        • Vtran

          many people talk of September 2015 being the period when USA crashes !
          However, the events are happening rapidly, so could earlier – have read Feb !
          The Shale crash is gathering speed, that itself could be enough to cause a Lemman which will ripple through Europe as all there banks hold the fallout of 2008 … USA “kind” method of sharing and you can’t refuse !
          Yes a USA crash will remove Nato, force USA to fracture as some states more profitable than others !
          As to trade, Russia is moving everything that used to be manufactured in Europe either in country or second sourced. Even if . when sanctions are removed, those markets to Europe will not be re-opened !
          EU will have to adapt sell to Ukraine, though Ukraine will never pay … so everything will be a GIFT !
          Don’t forget China, Russia, BRICS, and son SSO, EEU are not buying any NSA software or hardware inc servers from the West ! China has her own and free issue to BRICS .. no more intel or amd !!


        THEY sure have and I hope they will not hesitate to let those ass hole know that , and Russia should stop playing fiddles with them..

        • Vtran

          I think that has happened !

        • jade

          Russia should put their foot down and stomp Ukraine and join china to destroy america


    NOW this news is out in the open , Russia should shove it in the face of the zio- masters in the us and nato and demand the sanctions to be lifted now not tomorrow or next week or month or year now. , and if they don’t Russia should slap a much harsher sanctions on all the zio- subservient participants and expel every single one of their diplomats , consuls , ngo’s , nationals and close down all of their consulates and embassies .. and demand full compensation fro all those states including , us and nato ..

  • Soon, the western propaganda media will declare yet another invasion of the Ukraine.

    They have already lost all credibility. Western media is a joke!

    • Gala

      The junta justified all the mass killings in the East by russian invasion! Isn’t it time they all pay for what’s they done? All these liars in Kyev must be declared a war criminals. And yes, finally, cut off the gas and stop delivering coal from Donbass.

  • Nemily

    Ukraine: Oops. Our bad.

  • Timofey Dvoskin

    for the sake of humanity I ask all the unzombified people of used to be free United states of America to spread this information. I have kids and I dont want any war, Cold or Hot. Make your government responsible, just google “Donbass kids” for what “pro-russians” are fighting for. No to shelling of cities! No to supressing those who disagree with missile launchers! No US taxpayer’s support to Nazi!
    From Russia with love

    • donna

      used to be free for who???? white people who stole America in 1492 or native Indians!!!!! be specific. white people are illegal in America and don’t belong here to be quite honest.

  • Estonian

    Well…. this article makes me wonder if you, Americans, even understand how Russians think and how their system works. Even though even the US has performed “undercover ops” and denied doing it, Russia is just doing this on a big scale. It seems that (and of course I am not sure as I am physically situated over a thousand miles from the war zone) the Russians have sent in their troops unofficially and disguised as “rebels”. Of course as soon as they would have superior air support and all the other weapon systems the Russian army has, the disguise would be totally blown and Mr. Putin and his lapdog Mr. Lavrov could not state that Russia is not actively participating in this war. So, yes, in that sense Ukraine is not fighting the Russian Army. At least yet. Regardless of the statements that might have some weird “eastern political” background, it seems quite obvious that Russia is sending in troops, weapons, training. How else do you explain the fact that rebels are quickly building up an airforce… Well, even small countries that are doing much better than Ukraine’s eastern parts cannot afford an airforce. And still they are, after nearly a year of fighting, with their people living without electricity and in serious lack of food and drinking water, managing to build up an airforce.
    So back to how the Russians think: they lie, cheat and manipulate. The logical question to any person is: what is their motive? Russia is the biggest country when measured by landmass. They have lots of natural resources. Eastern Ukraine is small, only has coal, the people there are quite poor. All the industry and infrastructure they had has been destroyed. In addition, Ukrainians are their “brothers” sharing history, culture and have a very similar language. What is Russias goal in this dirty game? And the answers are: a) they can be poor and they put up with any dictator running the show as long their “great motherland” keeps growing and being a superpower; b) Putin needs an external distracting war, ideally a “small and victorious” war, to mobilize masses and stay in power. He is, undoubtedly, the most powerful man in the world (just because he, unlike Mr. Obama, is a dictator and can stay in power until his death).

    And the only thing to be added is that unfortunately the Ukrainian administration is so corrupted, infiltrated by dozens (if not hundreds) of pro-Russian collaborators or spies that one cannot take very seriously all the info that comes from any level of administration there…
    Let’s just hope this thing there does not escalate too much. When Hitler began his campaign, people also were reluctant to believe that someone would be crazy enough to want to conquer the world in the 20th century. But they were proven wrong in the bloodiest way imaginable.

    • truth

      Shouldn’t your Estonian viking blood no better.

      Anywho, Donbas/Lugansk are made up of people in that region, militia, merely defending their right for independence. They also include in their ranks, likely Russian citizens wanted to assist their brothers and sisters. Last of all, their ranks include anti-fascist volunteers from as far away as Spain and France, or Chechnya (neighboring Georgia). I’m sure most don’t even know where these countries are on a map as is.

      Imagine if in Estonia, Foreigners poured money into the country and gave training/weapons to insurrectionists and radicals and propaganda to overthrow your democratically elected leader. The Foreign nation that caused this then announces from a leaked Embassy call who the next leaders will be. Some of the electorate of Estonia are outraged when a coup leader takes over through foreign assistance. Areas of Estonia, perhaps the island regions of (South) Saaremaa and (North) Hiiumaa (or if you wish, Eastern cities Tartu and Narva) then declare the new government a farce, and illegal and announce they wish to form their own breakaway republics.

      They hold elections in which 80-90% of the people in those regions declare independence. The coup government in Tallinn declares those regions as rebels and terrorists for not accepting the coup government and mobilizes for war against them. The breakaway regions fiercely defend their right for independence while the coup government and the Foreign nation that support them have broken International Law. They indiscriminately bomb the freedom regions of Estonia, while the militias defend their cities successfully. Citizens of other neighboring countries, anti-radicals, possibly with family in Estonia, decide to cross the border and assist the new Republics.

      • jhoro

        so what happened with the Chechen rights to “merely defend their right for independence”. why did you kill over 100 thousand mostly civilians there?

        • truth


          Who do you think I am exactly?

      • Estonian

        Dear “truth”! The situations you tried to describe for enlightening me are a bit childish… From what I can understand you seem to be from a far away place from eastern Europe… Having lived also during the USSR times, I can quite honestly understand the mechanics of a Russian mind and that of a huge propaganda machine way better than people who have lived too near or too far from the center of the propaganda.
        I cannot be sure that the western governments did not invest money into the overthrowing of Yanukovich. But it does not matter. Yes, Yanukovich was democratically elected. However, in democracy, the elected leaders are not untouchable nor can they stay in power forever. If in more civilized places, governments can be replaced in a peaceful manner, then in Ukraine with elected leaders becoming more and more corrupt and centralizing the power more with each day, the government ignored the protests of Maidan. When Yanukovich’s government then opened fire at their own people, they really could not stay in power and say it is democracy. What happened next was simple: Russia started a war taking advantage of the lack of stability in Ukraine. They have already taken Crimea – it is de facto a part of Russia today – is this OK? Is this normal that in the 21 century borders are shifted in Europe with military power?

        The bottom line is simple: Russia invaded. Regardless of political views and opinions one country should never invade another because they do not like the political course this country is taking (more towards EU). Could you imagine, for example, that the US would take advantage of Canada’s potential political crisis and start arming the English-speaking Canadians and even send in hundreds of military saying “they were on vacation and are volunteers”?

        About Chechnya: what Russians have done there is a clear violation of human rights. Maybe you should be reminded that the Chechen people are Islamic and therefore they most likely did not have any family in the Ukraine. They are just very bloody and the Russian loyalists there are exactly the forces Moscow would throw into a battleground where they want to sow panic and terror.

        It is very funny that the “volunteers” are Russian army regulars, then also supposedly French and Spain anti-fascists. Do you even understand what you are saying? You are saying that the “free” Russian media is right: all Ukrainians are fascists who will start slaughtering Russian men, women and children as soon as they see a possibility? To my best understanding most Ukrainians are much more civilized than their dear neighbours in Russia. Please explain why the majority of civilized countries in the world are pointing the fingers towards Russia?

        I really do not understand what planet are you from. How can one justify the killings and war on Russia’s behalf? It is just beyond my capabilities. Maybe you should withness a Russian’s soldiers “love against humanity” first hand.

        • Kremlin Agent

          Как говорил мой знакомый: “Пока до эстонца дойдет, 40 лет пройдет”. Обама вчера прямым текстом заявил на пресс-конференции, что США выступили посредником при свержении власти на Украине. Anyway, если кровавый Майдан и силовое свержение власти для тебя – признак демократии, то тебе явно не все рассказали по этому вашему телевизору. Пруфы российского вторжения в студию, пожалуйста. Спутниковые снимки разрешением 600×400 из твиттера не засчитаю; “корректировщиков огня”, которых в российской армии нет, – тоже. И да, на Донбасе есть представители антифашистского движения из европейских стран. Про то, что украинцы фашисты, ты сам сказал, если что. У нас такого не говорят, говорят лишь о том, что фашизм набирает обороты, но массово так никого не клеймят. И да, если на украине нет фашизма, могу тебе скинуть целую библиотеку фоточек бойцов Азова с нацистской символикой. Хотя ты скажешь, что это фотошоп – не иначе. Про то, что хохлы более цивилизованные, – это я посмеялся. Они и до войны особо не тянули, а уж сейчас-то точно. Мусорные люстрации; церемониальное сожжение покрышек; Дом Профсоюзов в Одессе; давление на прессу, высказывающую отличную точку зрения; рейдерскин захваты украинских компаний, “спонсирующих сепаратизм”, и т.д. В общем, налицо демократия. Про то, что почему большинство цивилизованных стран против России, – это кто тебе сказал? Америка с ее подстилками – это далеко не все цивилизованные страны, если уж на карту-то смотреть.

          • Estonian

            Well, nice to see finally, that I really am talking to my eastern neighbors, not Americans 🙂

            Please do not put words in my mouth: I do not say that all the emblems of the volunteers in the Ukraine army are non-nationalists. Nationalism, however, is not necessarily a bad thing, at least until one starts to go to the extremes and label other people as “untermench” as certain nations did. Hell, in Russia most people are way more nationalist than in the West. But, again: the fact that there are some small elements of nazis in Ukraine (as in Russia, US, Estonia, even Sweden) is no justification for a war.

            Please answer a few questions:
            a) from where do the weapons to the insurgents come from if not from “Russia with love”?
            b) why is the Russian soldier’s mothers associacion (Союз Комитетов Солдатских Матерей России) demand info about why the army is pressuring soldiers from St. Petersburg region to go to “training in Rostov region” and that the deaths of the soldiers are admitted to be KIA with no further details released (at least 12 Russian soldiers buried 2014 July-September in St. Petersburg region)!?

            c) why is the Belarus leader so critical towards their biggest ally and “brother”? Is he also paranoid?
            d) what countries exactly are accusing the West and the Ukrainian government?
            I can say that the whole of EU (consisting of many countries that historically cannot agree on even the color of the banana but now stand together blaming Russia), the US, Canada, Australia, Japan and some smaller countries are pointing a finger towards Russia.
            There are some really big countries that have remained and will remain neutral: China and India are good examples.
            But again: besides perhaps Venezuela who is backing up Russia?

            So, please, do not justify Russia’s war. And certainly do not say that Russia is not involved. The only thing to argue about is how much is Russia involved and how far will Putin go.

          • Kremlin Agent

            Sorry for answering in Russian, my English isn’t enough good to write long grammatically right posts.
            a) Источников несколько:
            – ВСУ бросают технику на поле боя;
            – После боев остается техника, которая пригодна для использования, но требует ремонта. У ВСУ явно нет возможности размениваться на сломанную технику на поле боя и чинить ее, поэтому ее также просто бросают, спасая свои шкуры.
            – Точно не могу сказать, но полагаю, что на территории всего Донбасса наверняка могли быть склады с законсервированным оружием и техникой. С оружием – почти точно были, с техникой – не уверен.
            – Очень часто украинские военные сдаются в плен сами, иногда им предлагают сдаться. Особенно часто это происходит, когда они оказываются в окружении. В этом случае ополченцы всегда просят их не уничтожать свое оружие и технику и передать им. Они делают. Тех, кто отказался сдаться, обычно уничтожают вместе с техникой и оружием. Но все же техника действительно на вес золота.
            – Поставки из России. Тут непонятно. Если поставки и есть, то не в очень больших масштабах. В любом случае у Украины нет ни единого доказательства, что техника поставляется через границу. Они все время сваливают все на гуманитарные конвои из России, якобы они провозят оружие на территорию Украины. Это, конечно же, бред сивой кобылы. Каждый конвой проверяет МККК и ОБСЕ. Более того, никто ничего не скрывает. Россия не против того, чтобы приехали украинские журналисты и осмотрели все грузовики до единого. Но никто не едет. Они только кукарекают без перерыва о поставках оружия, но в реальности никто не едет проверять груз. Так что если и есть какие-то поставки, то совершенно другими путями, но Украина не называет этих других путей, а только грешит на гумконвои. Далее. Уже долгие месяцы границу мониторит ОБСЕ. Ни одного случая пересечения границы техникой они не зафиксировали. А ведь могли бы, потому что эта организация работает на Запад. Хотя ОБСЕ ничего не делает на Донбассе существенного. Их мониторинг – фикция. Но это уже другая история. С другой стороны, НАТО в последнее время все активнее поставляет оружие ВСУ. Со стороны ополчения достаточно фото и видео свидетельств этому. И тем не менее они отрицают, что это делают. Мы тоже будем отрицать – не вопрос.

            b) Про солдат из Петербурга не слышал. Слышал только про дисантников из Пскова. Наверное, ты все же о них. С ними ситуация очень мутная. В этой истории больше вымысла, чем правды, если не вдаваться сейчас в детали. Десантники действительно могли быть реальными, они дейсвительно могли погибнуть. Но вот все заявления украинских СМИ об этом – фейк. В августе, когда они погибли, в Интернете выкладывали ссылки на страницы этих десантников в ВКонтакте. Проверил сегодня – все живы-здоровы, их страницы активны. Что касается Союза Комитетов Солдатских Матерей России, то есть организация “Солдатские матери Санкт-Петербурга”, но к СКСМР она не имеет отношения. Более того, согласно законодательству России эта организация числится “иностранным агентом”, то есть ее деятельность финансируется из-за рубежа. Это не так страшно, как звучит, но тем не менее наводит на некоторые мысли об объективности заявлений ее участников.

            c) Высказывания Лукашенко не связаны с отношениями Россия-Украина, насколько я помню. Я сейчас даже перечитал бегло новости, там в основном речь вся идет о продуктовом эмбарго. Некоторые европейские компании провозили продукты в обход эмбарго через Белоруссию, но такие схемы быстро раскрывались. В итоге, если я не ошибаюсь, Россия банально запретила что-то ввозить из Белоруссии вообще.

            d) Новое правительство Греции высказывается против политики санкций. Евросоюз полностью зависим от США. Я не видел за все время ни одного раза, чтобы ЕС действовал не по указке США. Я имею в виду за все время конфликта на Украине и период введения санкций.

            Россия вовлечена, но не настолько, насколько это рисуют в СМИ. Поэтому твое замечание в конце поста очень правильное.

  • E

    Where’s a link to the video of the general? Both videos in this article are the same.

    Incidentally, Lubkivsky’s statement in the video concerning Russian troops begins at about the 4:45 mark.

  • Наталья

    Я русская, я не хочу войны, как и вы не хотите ее. Элиты ваши или наши предатели. Ядерная война никому не нужна.Никто не выживет, никто не отседится в бомбоубежище. Погибнет Земля-наш общий дом. Не верьте лжи и пропаганде . Думайте сами , ваша жизнь и вам решать , какой она будет.

  • Наталья

    Да, почти все об Украине ложь. Войну начали элиты Украины и Абама, он уже честно признался .

    Они хотят войны .Хотят убить вас и меня. Мы не хотим войны. Я русская , моя семья , друзья мы хотим мира, но Абама хочет нас убить. Он за элиты, которым нужны только деньги. Им это выгодно. Мы все им не нужны живыми.

  • Donnie Creene

    Well obviously they are not fully involved. If Russia invades, they will be at the gates of Kiev within a day. They probably have limited manpower inside Ukraine.

  • jox

    But wait! Yesterday the European Commision affirmed that they ‘had evidences of Russian intervention’, and thus they were asking for a escalation of sanctions on Russia. I cannot believe that they were … just lying?

  • Veracity

    Yes the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ has brought great benefits to …. whom?
    This will tell you all about the greatest charade ever pulled off:

  • Lenomdeplume

    Well, thanks for the nearly unintelligible quotes from Muzenko. Here is ONE of his lines that says it all,

    “To date, we have only the involvement of some members of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation …”

    So, ….YES….there are members of the Red Army in Ukraine. If you still disagree, REREAD the previous quote !!

    BTW, the Kremlin bots are using a traditional Stalin-era propaganda technique wherein they simply change the subject AWAY from the real point. In this case, they evade the reality of numbers of regular army in Ukraine by instead denying a charge that NO ON MADE : that ENTIRE units of the Red Army are not in Ukraine.

    Need proof? How about Putler’s own admission that the on-leave volunteers ARE IN Ukraine?

    How about the “lost paratroopers” who were “found 20 ams inside Ukraine?

    How about the Soviet (oops, I mean Russian) soldiers who posted selfies on Instagram that were geo-located INSIDE ukriane?

    “BuzzFeed’s Max Seddon found Instagram photos from 24-year-old Russian soldier Alexander Sotkin, a communications specialist who appears to be based in southern Russia. His Instagram photos are typical — filled with “selfies” — but it’s the locations that are telling. In two of them, he is placed in eastern Ukraine.”

  • Lenomdeplume

    Here is one, very clear statement on the topic of Soviet (oops, I mean Russian) troops in Ukraine from a source and a media outlet that are TRUSTED by the rebels: Zackharchenko ( a rebel leader) and and the Moscow Times.

    “East Ukrainian pro-Russian separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko said serving Russian soldiers, on leave from their posts, are fighting Ukrainian troops alongside the rebels, Russian state television reported.

    “Among us are fighting serving soldiers, who would rather take their vacation not on a beach but with us, among brothers, who are fighting for their freedom,” said Zakharchenko in an interview posted on, the Internet site of a Russian state television station.”

    Now, lets hear you “spin” this one….

  • Harald

    guys guys, the translation of the video is: “terrorists in east Ukraine may attack a “Russian humanitarian convoy” and blame it on Ukraine. This would then allow Russia to openly come in, undisguised, as peace keeping forces”. He’s not saying there aren’t any Russians in the Ukraine, just that they aren’t ‘openly there’ and if the convoy is attacked and blamed on Ukraine, they could openly invade. This is obvious propaganda by Russian news-sources, aiming towards the fact that most of us don’t speak Russian/Ukrainian -> information war people, its all about the initial ‘Twitter-share’ and not about the eventual debunking.

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