The Problem Isn’t Islam … It’s ALL Religious Fundamentalism
Churchtank Type 8 by Kris Kuksi

While the Koran Calls for Violence, The Bible Is Even Worse … Calling for Genocide

Christians and Jews rightly point out that the Koran is a violent text which calls on Muslims to attack “unbelievers”.

But they fail to see that the Bible is at least as violent.

NPR noted in 2010:

Religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.

“Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible,” Jenkins says.

Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.

Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.

“By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” he says. “Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide.”

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: “And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them,” God says through the prophet Samuel. “But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

“In other words,” Jenkins says, “Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians — not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God’s law if you do not.”

Jenkins notes that the history of Christianity is strewn with herem. During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites. In the great religious wars in the 16th, 17th and 19th centuries, Protestants and Catholics each believed the other side were the Amalekites and should be utterly destroyed.


El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism.

“All of those types of incidences — [Sept. 11], Maj. Nidal Hasan and so forth — those are all examples of irjaf, not jihad,” he says. According to the Quran, he says, those who practice irjaf “are going to hell.”


In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether.

Indeed, the Nazis, the Norwegian mass murderer and many others have committed terrorism in the name of Christianity.   Adolph Hitler professed to be a Christian, and churches in Nazi Germany mainly supported the Nazis.

There are peaceful, contemplative Muslim sects – think the poet Rumi and the whirling Sufis – and violent sects, just as there are contemplative Christian orders and violent Christian sects.

In the Old Testament, the Jews were always smiting one tribe or another into oblivion.  Some Jews still commit terrorism. For example, Israel admits that an Israeli terrorist cell operating in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including U.S. diplomatic facilities, then left behind “evidence” implicating the Arabs as the culprits (one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to identify the bombers, and several of the Israelis later confessed) (and see this and this).

A prominent Jewish leader said that Jews used terror during the formation of Israel.  And some still call for genocide against the other guy. And see this.

Indeed, even fundamentalist Hindus and Buddhists murder “non-believers”.

As NPR notes, murder of outsiders is called for in both the Koran and the Bible.  So the question isn’t whether you’re on one “team” or the other … it’s whether you’re mature enough to evolve past the violent thousands-year-old worldview and act peacefully.

Most Muslims condemn Islamic terrorism, just as most Christians condemn terrorism by fundamentalist Christians and most Jews condemn terrorism by fundamentalist Jews.

As Christian writer and psychiatrist M. Scott Peck – who served as the United States Army’s Assistant Chief Psychiatry and Neurology Consultant to the Surgeon General of the Army, and held the rank of Lieutenant Colonel – explained, there are different stages of spiritual maturity.  Fundamentalism – whether it be Muslim, Christian, Jewish or Hindu fundamentalism – is an immature stage of development.

Indeed, a Christian fundamentalist who kills others in the name of religion is much more similar to a Muslim – or Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist – fundamentalist who kills others in the name of his religion than to a Christian who peacefully fights for justice and truth, helps the poor, or serves to bring hope to the downtrodden.

Postscript: Sadly, the U.S. and our allies are making matters worse by backing the most barbaric, crazed, fundamentalist Muslims … and overthrowing the moderate Arabs.

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  • The Old Testament God at least.. just a tribal wargod reflecting beliefs of the surrounding region.

    My humble opinion. Christ came with a different Father. Hence whenever he said “is it not written in YOUR law….”

    Christ’s law was simple. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and being. And likewise, treat your neighbor, ie, everyone else the same way.

    • Joao

      It is good that you appreciate Christ’s Law, but Jesus quoted form the Old Testament hundreds of times. He believed in Adam and Eve and the Deluge, the Patriarchs. Please do not let intellectualism prevent you from considering why God may have acted as he did.
      Jesus actually used the term “you heard it was said” when refuting more times than he “overrode” the law. He was citing the oral traditions that had begun to accumulate that were oppressive to the people and widened class divisions.

      • I agree with this is spirit. At least, his own law. I think those same oral traditions found it’s way into the new as well. i think it is just as corrupted by men, to oppress the meek. Historically that is an accurate statemen. I don’t think Christ was quoting the OT as authority, but mocked it. Religious syncronism makes up the majority of today’s New testament. All of that could have been added in later. We do not have the originals.

        Some on that page maybe wrong,but not all. Lost Christianities by Bart Erhman is another place to start.

        Basically, a real Jesus may have existed. But, certainly not the RCC version. As i said, I’m more aligned with Gnosticism now.

        It is just not trust worthy. I chose to ask the governor of the universe directly.

    • Lorin Chane Partain

      that is interesting except Jesus does not agree with that. He said that He came not to do away with the old law but to fulfill it, and that the God of their father’s, the Jews, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had sent him. So Jesus identifies with the God of the Old Testament in his own words.

      • We can disagree. Jeremiah 8:8. The Golden Rule also somehow survived in the corrupted old test too. Look for it. The Pharisees also didn’t follow the old. Thier law was the Talmud.

        You only have half the story.

        • Lorin Chane Partain

          I am not sure which half I am missing, I am aware of the Talmud, and pretty sure it is irrelevant to the subject. We are discussing what Jesus said about himself not what others thought.

          • The Pharisees were not implying the old testament. The confusion is not understanding which law is being referenced. There are two. The Pharisees followed the oral law, the Talmud Everyone assumes the Pharisees followed the old test. They did not. Look what the Talmud says about the old.

            Think of like Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. Both are Christian, yet have very differing beliefs.

  • RaisingMac

    The Nazis did not endorse Christianity as their cause, though they tolerated existing churches that did not attack or criticize the government. They were confident that Christianity was destined to fade away in time, so they saw no point in creating more enemies for themselves by trying to stamp it out. That’s not to say that Hitler (and certain other members of his regime) did not have any supernatural beliefs at all; they just weren’t ostensibly Christian.

  • dwm

    actually, those passages in the Old Testament can be demonstrated to be esoteric / metaphorical and not literal: the battle between the Biblical children of Israel and the Amalekites refers to a CELESTIAL battle between the upper half of the zodiac wheel and the lower half of the zodiac wheel — a battle that takes place over and over, every year, as the earth goes around the sun and the days grow longer than the nights, and then the nights grow longer than the days. Check out:


  • Scrotie McBoogerballs

    I expected better from this site. While Islam calls for its adherents to attack unbelievers, The Bible does no such thing.

    When the types of arguments put forth above appear, the quotes are always drawn from the Old Testament, which demonstrates a certain level of pig-ignorance about Christianity and The Bible. The Old Testament is the Hebrew-Jewish part of the Bible (Jews don’t believe that Jesus Christ was the Saviour promised by God in the Old Testament Scriptures and they still await The Chosen One).

    The part of The Bible that Christianity is based on is The New Testament (the bit that documents the fulfilment of the Old Testament prophecies – namely the birth, life, deeds, crucifixion and resurrection of the Christian Saviour, Jesus Christ.)

    The Old Testament covers the Old Covenant between God and humanity (as depicted by a God of vengeance). The New Testament is about the New Covenant between God and humanity as a result of Jesus atoning for the sins of humanity.

    “The sacred Scriptures of Judaism consist of three groups of documents: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings (such as Psalms and Proverbs). These Scriptures also form the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. Judaism does not accept the inspiration of the New Testament or its account of the fulfilment of the Old Testament prophecies.” (Wiki)

    Not a solitary word of the teachings of Christ, preaches violence towards anyone. Quite the contrary in fact:

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” (Luke 6:31)

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;” (Matthew 5:44)

    “To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either.” (Luke 6:29)

    “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35)

    • Gil G

      Translation: Christians can flit between the New and Old Testaments when it suits their arguments.

      • jay

        Herem only applied to the Israelites at the time and at specific times in history and only under specific command of God. There is no evidence that Christians are commanded to herem. There is this incident that hammers home the point:
        Luke 9:51-56
        51When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem.
        52And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him.

        53But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem.Only spreading the word of God.
        when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, “Lord, do you want
        us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”
        55But he turned and rebuked them.
        56And they went on to another village.

      • Scrotie McBoogerballs

        The Old Testament is full of killing, vengeance and anger which directly contradicts the teachings of Christ, particularly: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” and “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”.

        It’s a shame you have neither the wit nor apparently the intelligence, to understand something so simple even a child can comprehend it.

        • Joao

          The problem with that logic is that Jesus quoted from the Old Testament hundreds of times. He was a Jew who believed in all that. He sanctioned what his father authorized or allowed. There was a lot of killing at certain times.
          God chose the Israelites on account of Abraham’s faith. He chose someone through whose line the Messiah would come. And he chose to give them a homeland and protect them from the tribes around them. And he chose to record a history of his dealing with these people so we could see that he cares for his people. This explains why things were different up until Jesus came.
          Even so, the perfect law of love that you cite is best. By following it we can have his approval and the reward. Keep on.

          • vladimir

            The only one who has a problem with logic is you. You keep posting the same line like a broken record. In fact Jesus hasn’t quoted from the OT “hundreds of times”. How could he have sanctioned anything that happened when he wasn’t alive. Jesus was a peaceful, mild mannered, and non violent man. He has sanctioned the golden rule (do unto others…), by stating it and living it, that rule btw was known for thousands of years before him. How could he subscribe to that and yet approve of all the violence in the OT. Saying he was a jew doesn’t prove anything, he was in philosophical conflict with almost all jewish scholars. I don’t think you know more about what Jesus believed in than the man himself. His words and acts are worth more than your false premises. Way denounce every instance of violence in the OT one by one when one can state his position by means of the golden rule. And going back to the article, the order to destroy the Amalekites seems to apply onty to how the Jews should deal with them- only to that specific instant. It’s not a broad, universal and permanent authorization to use force against people of different religions. The crusades were nothing but a direct response to the muslim attack on the Byzantine empire. The emperor himself requested assistance worried about the muslims trashing their weight around.

          • James Williams

            One should add that if Jesus was so compatible with Judaism, why is he reviled in the Talmud, which speaks of him suffering in hell, etc etc. Why would hollywood (run by Jews) put out movies like ‘the last temptation of christ’?

            His doctrines not only differed from Judaism, but they posed some sort of threat (or at least offered mockery and criticism, which Jewish people don’t allow).

          • GreenSlugg Muse

            James Williams, Jesus’ teaching contradict the traditions that Jews had added to the Torah at the time, but He never contradicts the clear teachings of the Old Testament writings. On the other hand, some of what the Jewish leaders were teaching at the time of Christ squarely contradicted the Old Testament laws.

          • Sean

            Absolutely correct.

          • NickRepublic

            I finally read a sane and rational response to the nonsense being spewed out. Kudos sir, albeit three months too late.

          • His doctrines differed and differ from today’s “Judaism”, but they are perfectly compatible with the Tanukh.

          • Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:– Acts 7:52 – Stephen to the Jews just before they stoned him to death, too…

          • Craig

            It’s all testament to just how hard their hearts were. How far away from God they had fallen. That they rejected their own God due to their level of self-righteousness.

          • PinxEngrayz

            “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

          • freedom

            PinxEngrayz. He was warning his followers that their family members would turn on them and disown for them becoming Christians. This was and is still a common experience for Jews who convert to Christianity. Read the next few verses where he explains this statement showing what I just said instead of you conveniently quoting out of context to insert meaning never intend by Christ.

          • paulalovescats

            Freedom, did you even read the verse after that, you dumbass? It’s Jesus picking the fight.
            For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law–

          • Sharon Ray

            You are right Jesus is just a name , what it is telling you you have to fight to survive. It is the people against the people.we are nothing but a PREY, for the two legs and the four legs and the things that creep into the night , we are nothing but a rotten piece of meat, every meat stink if you do not wash it or clean it, so yes Jesus that made up name is telling you the truth he is very very violent and full of destruction he want you to slaughter one another. There is no peace as long as you have breath breathing from your body only death can bring you peace why? Because you will be dead and the world owe or you owe the world or the people in your that you live you owe anything, no more sickness or pain or hungry sorry and all the animal will get alone with because you do not exist anymore in the flesh. Just said your debts are paid, but man will go after their for the debt if they are crazy to pay a dead person debt , when you die your debt is also dead.

          • Ron Holt


          • Sharon Ray

            It take one to know one IDOIT

          • Sharon Rat

            If the truth hurts just wear those shoes because all religion is witch craft and evil as hell

          • Clueless: “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”-John 18:36

          • Steve

            What are you clueless about?

          • Clueless about what might be puzzling you

          • Steve

            Nothing’s puzzling me. It seems you were clueless since that’s what you wrote.

          • You must have a problem with John 18:36. Done with this thread.

          • So much for Matthew 15:4: For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’

          • Steve

            You are so clever!

          • Steve

            You guys are so lame. I guess its not obvious to you that turning against the father means the good son will be at odds with the bad dad. Like i’ve said elsewhere I’ll take Jesus freaks over Mudhumid any day!

          • Because they reject the love of God.

          • Steve

            You are finding the meaning you want not the intended meaning. Do you think he meant by his teachings children would be killing their parents or perhaps going against the wrong things they were doing. You need to think critically. Don’t give up!

          • Sharon Ray

            Christinanity is the best drugs that is sold on the market, the only drifferent you have to read and believe to get high then you on cloud nine walking with something you will never see in the flesh you just have to believe to recieve. I rather smoke weed and believe what I see and know it will be their in it form when my high is finish and I can touch it and feel it and believe that I see it. Now that was a good drug I see thing when I am high and I see it when my high is finish.

          • Sharon Ray

            Remember not peace but a sword. Now that is very evil he want you dead he want us to kill each other to survive. But some of us understand what is going on in this land while other think there is a GOD and his SON that care for them. Some mother and father has to watch their creation die get kill and then they say to theirselve Jesus and his father will take care of it and put it in there hands they will get vengeance for them. Now if I mean if their was a GOD and he or it was nothing but Love he would not aloud this destruction to go on like this, what in the hell he gets to gain from this? Because there ins’t any God and there never been a man name Jesus, what I see is that all the Kings was god and their children’s was there sons, and one of those king son was murder by the people’s and then they made up this story to keep him and his father alive, and here we all both and believe but I guess you did not have a choice, it was brain wash from generation to generation and it will go on for another 1500 years or more then they will come up with a new bible and lies and Religious, I am glad that I am free I believe in no religious or GOD or His SON. I am very very happy, but i am along and I love it this way I can take care of myself until my days are up then I will live through my creation that I breed on this land they will not forget me, that is how I will live enternally , when I use to believe I had many friends but when I stop believing they left me very quickly I did not run from them but they ran so fast from me, now I truly knew who was the devil and his evil, it was the believer they wanted my head, so I rather be along then to follow with evil. The Christian Religious world and there best selling Book and by the way you will not find any religious pamphlets or bible in my home, my home is Evil free I burn them all, now I can live my life the way that should with every knowledge that I was created with from my ancestor from the past, knowledge is surely a bad thing to waste on the Bible it do not teach you nothing but to stop living only,

          • Read the epistle of John and forget you friends. Don’t follow me, don’t follow them, follow the truth. Jesus loves you mucho. “When my father and my mother forsake me, the Lord will take me up”.

          • Sharon Ray

            No one walk this land knows the real truth about anything, just word from the past and yes we all ran with it and believe what they said happen, but we all have been fooled, yes I done research that One culture of people started this and another culture saying their is the true one, but the fact is your brain is the leader of your body good or bad we have to treat this body right if we want to live long no matter what we are all a hunk of piece of stink meat just waiting to be preyed on, there is no God and who ever this jesus was or was not believe me he did not die for no one if it was a man call jesus now don’t get mad at me I am just not easy to be brain wash God has never done anything for me or this so call man the call a jesus I believe in only what I see. So if there is a satan or a devil or a god or some jesus, God is your government,satan and evil is the law if I donot get in their way I can travel my light journey til death, and another thing when you here that dead people are alive that is true, why because the government has taking their identity from them, so yes we do have dead people walking this land.

          • “No one walk this land knows the real truth about anything”

            So how can you know this, if “No one walk this land knows the real truth about anything”

          • harry cohen

            I DO

          • harry cohen

            G d forgive you,its easy to say there is no god, then u don,t have to care,when u sin . i have broken nearly every law of the 613 laws and the nohide laws, yet the lord hashem has blessed me and forgiven me. barouch atah ADANOI.
            SIGHNED a jew!

          • don

            I am sorry the Christian community abandoned you. Don

          • Sharon Ray

            No the Christian community is the evil one because when you want out they keep coming back and calling you a devil if you keep comming after a person to get them to join you leagalize cult that is evil and brain wash , jesus said he did not come to bring peace he came with a sword so where is the love I don’t think so. My husband is my lord of lord and king of king so let it be written

          • Craig

            When they came to arrest Jesus, Peter drew his sword and cut off the arresters ear.

            Jesus rebuked him and made him put away his sword, and healed the ear of the person arresting him.

            He scolded his own follower, and healed the person who was arresting him unjustly.

            If that’s not peace, idk what is.

          • Sharon Ray

            And don 99percent of the Christian are evil look at the churches not the building but the bodies they walk around in they are so corrupted and lieing rapeing and stealing. and scarring the people what will happen if they rob God and that is all those evil so call teacher of the words they say of a god and they know deep in their heart they are lieing to the people while they live a lavish life while there flock just makeing ends meet in there own home , when they said God said bless the child that got his own, that was only the rich and the government and the school that tought those teacher to rob the flock only like a thief in night and the day that is so evil , 1percent is not brain wash And I am in that one percent I will never come like a thief in the night or day that is evil anyway you look at it, it will rob you and kill you,

          • harry cohen

            I am sorry, that you believe in such trash, we cannot live and believe in any thing the quaran states, like christians miss believed,so does christianity (remember the inquistian) or how about persia,turkey, ottoman empire, empires of england,france,germany, china,japan,vietnam,korea, it seams there is no end to madness. israel is smaller than jersey the smallest minority in the world, we thought to christianize the indians, we must learn then we can teach, PEACE!!!

          • Steve


          • That’s because like David had said before, “I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.” – Psalm 120:7

            When a student says “God bless America”, the ACLU goes to war.

            When a Muslim accepts Jesus Christ, he stops speaking war and begins speaking of peace, like “Son of Hamas”, who was a Hamas warrior, son of a founder of Hamas, who learned about “Love thine enemies” and changed.

            I heard one former Gotti lieutenant give his testimony. The love of a loving pastor changed his life. David Wilkerson showed the love of Christ to Nicky Cruz and the result was a new disciple sharing the same love, as told in the book “The Cross and the Switchblade”.

            The movie made from the book played a part in the rescue of one of the satanist members of the international clique orchestrating the world dictatorship takeover underway as we speak. He blew the lid open on them and exposed a great many well-known “Christian leaders” in the process.

            So as usual, dedicated followers of Christ get vituperation from militant atheists and self-righteous religionists, both…

          • Steve

            The sword is what happens when you stand up to tyranny from islamists who expect you to just kneel for the beheading. Its obvious who the killers are today. I put my faith in living around christians any day versus the insanity of islamists.

          • cudasan

            well i wouldn’t say that jesus was non-violent as he did resort to violence on occasion. secondly jesus also claims that he had came to uphold the laws of the old testiment and not denounce them. not to mention that jesus wanted to destroy all of humanity

            I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (luke 22:35-38) [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables(John 2:15.) from the original bible to the english bible in the victorian age there exists the infancy gospel of thomas in which jesus literally murders children in cold blood and malice to the point where his family is exiled from their village.

          • whatever

            When did Jesus resort to violence? Also, Hitler wanted to eradicate Christianity in Nazi Germany but knew that it was already a stronghold. No need to pull from scripture… Old or new. Those who know just know and those who don’t spend countless hours attempting to fond excuses not to believe.

          • Joshua

            cudasan, you really should watch what scriptures your referring to.
            Luke 22:35-38 (HCSB)
            35 He also said to them, “When I sent you out
            without money-bag, traveling bag, or sandals, did you lack
            anything?” “Not a thing,” they said.
            36 Then He said to them,
            “But now, whoever has a money-bag should take it, and
            also a traveling bag. And whoever doesn’t have a sword should sell his robe and
            buy one.
            37 For I tell you, what is
            written must be fulfilled in Me: And He was counted among
            the outlaws. Yes, what is written about Me is
            coming to its fulfillment.”
            38 “Lord,” they said, “look, here are two swords.”
            “Enough of that!” He told

            I am a struggling believer with my faith, but i still understand that some things are only spiritually discerned as you seek the Lord. Also if you desire to learn of Jesus teachings of God in the flesh, etc. Read commentaries, I would suggest and bible studies, not just guessing without comparring scriptures in context with other places in Bible. Thank you, hope i help someone.


          • Those swords were for self-defense. Peter had one in the garden. But they were to fend off attacks, not to steal from the rich and poor pretending they were using it to help people. Jesus never taxed anybody for anything.

          • Also, he didn’t say “Enough of that!” He said, “It is enough”, meaning that’s enough for the purpose. Peter carried one of those swords.

          • On one occasion Jesus lashed the money changers and thieves out of the temple. Think what he’s going to do to central bankers and the thieves that rob us all blind while telling us it’s to help the poor.

          • harry cohen

            they want us to help the poor because they can,tonly G D CAN TRULEY HELP!

          • Craig

            I long for this day.

          • Sharon Ray

            Because he wasn’t alive and never been born he is made up by the Jews to brain wash and take over the age of space that we all live in and it’s been over 2000 years since he was made up to control the people it started with the Jews then the Romans then Europe and Europe sent out their people for missionary to teach this religious all around the world, and now we all are brain wash, in about a thousand years it will not be the name jesus it will be another name, so none of us will be here to hear who the new next son will be but is will be another made up man to control the people until all people awake and see they are the real answer to this land no one I mean no one is soppose to be over us human we was born to live with each other and get along , until a smart ass came along with these lieing tactic to control us and we the people alouded this to happen to us .

          • He did quote the OT a lot, including pointing to the Creation week and one-man-one-woman marriage in the same lesson, for example.

            He was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets, and changed things explicitly. The first two commandments were always the greatest and exceptions to the rest of “the law” prove it. Salvation and righteousness was ALWAYS by faith in God’s mercy.

            But with Jesus in the flesh it became explicit, i.e. “manifest”.

          • Bobby English


          • James Williams

            Sorry, I don’t buy that at all. You omit the parts where Jesus bitterly criticized the Pharisees, threw the money lenders out of the temple, accepted Mary Magdalene, etc etc.

            The Pentateuch is a badly written spiel of hatred towards the rest of humanity, laced with tacit approval of incest (e.g., job and his daughters), gang rape (e.g., leviticus 19) and more genocide than one can count. Jesus may have used anecdotes and themes from the Pentateuch, but find me the passage where he approves of genocide and gang rape. Post it here so we can all see.

            His message was one of universal salvation, not genocidal tribalism. In the Pentateuch it talks of how men who have problems with their testicles should be excluded from the Chosen People, that they have no use in life. This is exactly what Jesus denied.

            you sound like someone who spends a lot of time reading the Old Testament, speaking in Tongues and all the rest of that idiocy. You should probably start reading what Jesus wrote, instead of going around ‘accepting him’ without understanding his basic message.

          • Sean

            Lot and his daughters not Job ps What two nations sprung from these unions.
            Yes everything you’re saying is true, But you’re missing the point this is merely recording history it’s not in favor of gang rape, its recording a history of it.

          • Sean

            Since the gospel is later gives all humanity the gospel choice whoever he excludes from the nation of Israel isn’t really your business but rather gods judgement.

          • GreenSlugg Muse

            Actually Sean, Leviticus 19 has nothing to do with rape of any sort. It doesn’t even mention rape, or any instance of it.

          • willi santiago

            Your translation of Leviticus doesn’t mention the word rape. That isn’t the same thing. The people of Sodom threatened to rape Lot’s guests and he offered them his daughters instead. Later, his daughters got him drunk and had sex with him so they could have children. I still don’t get exactly what moral message I’m supposed to get out of that one. ;-o

          • GreenSlugg Muse

            “laced with tacit approval of incest (e.g., job and his daughters)” The Torah did not approve of this act, it merely reported it, and to the people reading it, this would have been considered a great evil.

            Just so everyone can see Leviticus 19 for themselves

            Leviticus 19 English Standard Version (ESV)

            The Lord Is Holy

            19 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy. 3 Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and you shall keep my Sabbaths: I am the Lord your God. 4 Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves any gods of cast metal: I am the Lord your God.

            5 “When you offer a sacrifice of peace offerings to the Lord, you shall offer it sothat you may be accepted. 6 It shall be eaten the same day you offer it or on the day after, and anything left over until the third day shall be burned up with fire. 7 If it is eaten at all on the third day, it is tainted; it will not be accepted,8 and everyone who eats it shall bear his iniquity, because he has profaned what is holy to the Lord, and that person shall be cut off from his people.

            Love Your Neighbor as Yourself

            9 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. 10 And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.

            11 “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. 12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

            13 “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning. 14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.

            15 “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life[a] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.

            17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

            You Shall Keep My Statutes

            19 “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

            20 “If a man lies sexually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free; 21 but he shall bring his compensation to the Lord, to the entrance of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering. 22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the Lord for his sin that he has committed, and he shall be forgiven for the sin that he has committed.

            23 “When you come into the land and plant any kind of tree for food, then you shall regard its fruit as forbidden.[b] Three years it shall be forbidden to you; it must not be eaten. 24 And in the fourth year all its fruit shall be holy, an offering of praise to the Lord. 25 But in the fifth year you may eat of its fruit, to increase its yield for you: I am the Lord your God.

            26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. 27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

            29 “Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity. 30 You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

            31 “Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

            32 “You shall stand up before the gray head and honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.

            33 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

            35 “You shall do no wrong in judgment, in measures of length or weight or quantity. 36 You shall have just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin:[c] I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt. 37 Andyou shall observe all my statutes and all my rules, and do them: I am theLord.”

            There is nothing in Leviticus 19 that even mentions rape, unless you count the very generic command to do no injustice.

            “His message was one of universal salvation, not genocidal tribalism.”

            Jesus most certainly did not preach universalism. In fact, Jesus is where we get most of our knowledge about Hell from.

            “You should probably start reading what Jesus wrote, instead of going around ‘accepting him’ without understanding his basic message.”

            Look, at this point I have to be very honest with you. You should probably take the time to read the Bible, and understand it, before making such confident assertions about it. I am honestly not trying to be snarky or rude here, although I have been known for sarcasm at times. Please take this message with the utmost gentleness… Jesus never wrote anything in the Bible. I qualify that with this; on one hand He claimed to be God, the ultimate author of everything in Scripture, but the books of the Bible were physically penned by other people. The New Testament was penned by the apostles (including Paul). Jesus, however, never physically penned anything in human form.

            Perhaps you just made a typing error. Perhaps it was just late when you wrote this, but you know whether this was the case or not. If you honestly knew that little about the Bible, however, then try looking into a little more before judging it, so that you can make a sound judgement. Again, please do not take this harshly, or take it with offense.


          • GreenSlugg Muse

            And I can’t believe I missed the error, it was Lot and his daughters, not Job. Although Job was probably alive at around this period of time, he just wasn’t hanging out with Lot.

          • harry cohen

            you do well by what u were taught only the bible leaves out very much and missquotes much ,nice try though.when you have seen the mess of my long lifehas seen! the lord willing !!

          • NickRepublic

            “laced with tacit approval of incest (e.g., job and his daughters)” By this standard you must think the every newspaper in the country condones murder, rape, arson, and robbery by the fact that they contain these stories. You try to have it both ways in this argument and you can’t.

          • willi santiago

            “threw the money lenders out of the temple” sounds violent to me.
            Mohammed’s message was also one of peace. YOU are missing that point.

          • paulalovescats

            It sounds as if you’re saying there were two gods, one in the OT, one in the NT. If Jesus was god, why agree with his father? If I can throw away the OT, there go the 10 Cs. And God commanded abortion in Numbers 5.

          • harry cohen

            i really feel most of u mean well ,but as wrong as the empires. now figure that out!!!

          • guest3

            Discussing law does not always mean agreement. Prosecutors refer to law. Defense attorneys disagree with Prosecutors claims and also refer to the law. Therefore the “Jesus quoted from the Old Testament” is incomplete and perhaps intentionally so, to raise an argument.

          • SUE

            Another distinction needs to be made here. He did NOT quote the violence therein. Accuracy people, accuracy and not just drivel.

          • paulalovescats

            God ORDERED abortion in Numbers 5. He ORDERED kidnapping and rape of virgin girls. Then he threw fits over some kinds of clothes and fish. The bible was written by men with mood disorders.

          • Sharon Ray

            For all who do believe in any bible and looking for enternal or life after death my heart goes out to you, because there is nothing on the other side. If you read the bible and hear what the bible is telling you, it’s telling you just what you want to hear and to believe it is your brain that lead you to your destiny if you control your brain and not your brain control you then your heart is your destiny and you will know what path you need to take until your death, when you die you will have enternal life through your creation that you both into this world they will keep you alive. Like the bible say the dead will rise first this is true because the living keep them alive everyday, if the living did not talk about the dead then the dead could not or will not rise they would stay dead, the living should only think of the living and leave the dead along cause the dead is void and null, only what the dead has left back here the living are the only one can conquer til they die and it keep going and going until there is no more Species on this land we all are the same but live in drifference of skins, the word GOD come from man and man only they get this name from the name DOG/GOD theses are the same names, we have always been along and we will die along all we have to do is keep creating and populating the earth and continue to PREY on each other to survive. I do not believe, I only have FAITH and BELIEVE in my own destiny, so may want ever force you believe in i salute you.

          • Jeff Nunayorbizness

            Likewise, the problem is that the New Testament itself states that the law is good:

            Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (obey). 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled (to this day, neither heaven nor earth has passed away).19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

            According to the New Testament, what is “sin”?

            1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

            Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid! Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

            Now then, the person who says that the New Testament does not support the Old Testament, is a “moderate” Christian, and himself ignorant of what is written in the New Testament.

          • Steve Granger

            Wrong! Jesus was a Jew, but if he “believed in all that” as you put it, he would have no reason to come. He relieved us of all those practices. Study a bit more and you will see.

          • Bobby English


            GET OVER IT!


        • Fred Flint

          Describing our fallen nature in the bible is not the same as God endorsing that behavior. All have fallen away and need a Savior.

        • Ja’usman Faisal

          Indeed, please can you also quote Luke 19 vs 27 and explain what it mean. I believe you know Luke is in the New Testament.

        • GreenSlugg Muse

          I don’t agree with everything that you’ve said here, but I appreciate your basic common sense. While the Bible calls for the destruction of certain tribes, the destruction was limited to just those tribes, and this did not always include all members of said tribes.

          The Qur’an, on the other hand, calls for the destruction and/or subjugation of all non-Muslims.

        • guest3

          For a man to hide from God he must fraternize with the Devil.

        • Danarius Compopolous

          Uh, then maybe a child would discard the old testament. Or perhaps a child would keep it, then pretend it doesn’t effect modern day Christianity, then insult people’s intelligence and wit when they are wise enough to see that the contradiction exists and the bible does indeed call for violence. It goes all the way back to Cain and Abel when god made clear he preferred blood sacrifice over other forms of sacrifice.

          Denying the violence of the bible as a christian isn’t your job scrotie, its amending it after admission that it exists. Good luck with that…to all of us

          • Sean

            Yes clearly he prefers a blood sacrifice that is Christ. There is no point In discussing with fools things they clearly do not understand.

        • Sean

          No contradiction at all actually.
          Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Is what Christ commands his followers to do in regard to their dealings with their fellow men. That’s why fundamentalist Christians give people pizza and tell them about Jesus and don’t run around blowing things up like the author tries to imply.

          On the other hand one only needs to read the book of Revelation and see that the Old Testament God is alive and well meeting out vengeance upon All those wicked men and women who rejected his grace and the end of days.

          Call upon God and be saved from the wrath that you deserve by the blood of Christ which you don’t deserve or pay for your own sins and go with the devil and his angels to the hell prepared for them.
          That sir is called a choice you’re asked to make one. No choice is a choice to reject God. I put before you this day life and death choose life.

          You might not like the Bible but it’s not contradicting itself.

          • GreenSlugg Muse

            One thing that I was blown away by was the God of Love in the Old Testament. He has overwhelming patience and kindness, but when He does remove evil people (people akin to the Nazis or ISIS) it is like the evil is finally being put away, even though God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

            For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”

            Ezekiel 18:32

            Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

            Ezekiel 33:11


        • Lino de la Guardia

          “Exodus 13:2 “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.””

          “”At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.””

          It was his daughter.

          “”Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” Deuteronomy 13:13-19″

          “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
          Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.””

          ” They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. Judges 5:30″

          Rape? Murder? From the Bible?

        • Sharon Ray

          Well the New Testament is hideing behind evil, the Old Testament is the real killer and the New Testament is the brain washer and the controlling of the people to hope for things and believe in the unseen and to leave all your cares to someone or something that is total invisible, the New Testament were written just so the people can be brain wash

        • Wes

          The bible actually claims a man named joseph dwelt inside a large aquatic fish’s belly. Anyone who would still use the bible for anything relevant to the modern world is an idiot and should be treated as an individual with a mental illness. Its not faith its a sickness. I feel like a big boy in a nursery when I deal with Christians ……Hahahaha……..

        • Malinda Wilson Smith

          The bible demonstrates God’s protection against their enemies and his punishment of the Jews when they disobeyed and were rebellious against Him. Period. The bible in total is the history of the Jews and their struggles, and how God intervened on their behalf. In the new testament it demonstrates the coming of Christ, the messiah, who came to show the Jews a better way and how they could find unity with God through Christ and that they were not the only ones who could. So the sacrifices and laws were “fulfilled”.

      • c a martin

        Crack a few books and read some ancient history, a few of them, then you will see why God wanted them removed from the earth. Read of the practices of the adherents of the god Molech, a fire god. A hollow brazen statue in the form of a man bull was filled with fire/coals until red hot, then a child sacrifice of around one years old was laid on its outstretched arms, the child screaming in pain as its flesh is seared and consumed, this was by no means a slow death.It is said its cries and screams were an appeasement and its flesh a food offering. Molech had a consort, the god Ashtoreth and both were worshiped together. Ashtoreth was a god of sexual delights, fertility and divination and was the perfect accompaniment for Molech as it offered many unwanted children for sacrifice.There are many more such as them and all done with pleasure and no conscience. They practiced genocide as well and what they did to their captives is beyond horrid. Israel was Gods judgement on these people that practiced such evil and had pleasure in doing so with no conscience and Israel did not torture as their enemies did. I like some other of Christians will not hide God as he was in O.T. like a embarrassing uncle nor will I act as though Christ of the new testament was somehow in disagreement with Him. Hogwash He was his Father and someone with spiritual discernment can see the true nature of the happenings of the O.T.

        • Yep. Polytheism was the rule of the day. Would you like to talk about the Original Queen of Heaven, Asherah? YHWH, A violent tribal war god, one of 70 other gods, subservient to El Elyon, the Most High. Later, redaction and textual editing took place to make YHWH the same as El Elyon.

          Etc. Etc. etc.

          • c a martin

            Christian apologetics from an atheist perspective? The serpents take on the tree of knowledge? Sounds like you found a home.

          • Someone knows ALL of your tricks. I know what pathological lying is. I know what Confidence tricks are. I know your religions dirty little secrets. I was highly trained in the way of fundamental Christianity before I called Bullshit.

            I can go “observe” the entire obliteration of your scriptural and moral authority (i already did here: btw)


            “Of course, our intuition tends to recoil at the idea that everything and everyone we know emerged from the event horizon of a single four-dimensional black hole. We have no concept of what a four-dimensional universe might look like. We don’t know how a four-dimensional “parent” universe itself came to be.”


          • c a martin

            You are self deluded if you think you have accomplished anything here. I am not your “son” you are the son of the father of lies and the truth is not in you Most of what you bring up I have already read in one form or another, maybe while you were in diapers. You are under the delusion that I read nothing but the Bible but I am far more learned than that. I highly doubt you have done the research that I have done in the last 35 years. Your arguments are tired and old and have been presented many times by many who came before you, they are not new and you certainly present no ‘aha’ moments.Freely follow your teachings of men if you choose for in them you find your reason for being and solace. You fail to prove your conclusions by assuming the conclusion is in the proof. It seems you make a lot of assumptions.

          • PinxEngrayz

            “… you are the son of the father of lies …”
            All I need to hear, brother, to know you are incapable of seeing outside your own cherished mythology.

          • c a martin

            Your supposed mythology. My truth is the truth of Christ. I have no expectation of the darkness understanding light. You seek to criticize me on something you have no spiritual understanding of.

          • PinxEngrayz

            Fair enough. But understand that neither personal experience nor ancient, confusing, oft-translated texts come anywhere close to evidence sufficient to declare the objective “truth” of anything. In other words, I could pronounce to you – as hundreds of millions do – that my personal “truth” is the validity of the Hindu pantheon. Then you and I would stand at loggerheads, since neither claim can be evaluated, falsified, or tested in an objective manner.

            Thus, where you would call me spawn of the devil (as you did above to another), I will tell you simply that I do not believe in supernatural things because I have seen no evidence for their existence. Shown such evidence, I certainly could be convinced.

            And a quick note: Many Christians tell me — a Christian for most of my life — that God has already shown me sufficient evidence for belief, but I arrogantly deny it. This presumes I’m lying when I say I am not convinced of the evidence. In truth, if God is as most Christians believe, omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent, then he/it knows *precisely* what evidence it would take to convince me and anyone else who does not believe. No ambiguity. If I am thus far not convinced, it means either that God a) does not have the power to summon evidence sufficient to convince me or b) he/it is deliberately withholding that evidence, fully aware that (in Christian mythology) this will hurl me into the fiery pit of damnation to suffer a disproportionate, eternal torture for his own refusal to “save” me. This all presumes, of course, that God wants to “save” people — I realize than in some Christian belief systems, there are distinct “elect” and “non elect.”

            And don’t talk to me about free will. God demonstrating his/its powers would in no way violate my free will, if the Bible is to be believed. After all, who knows God’s powers better than his (manufactured) adversary, Satan? Yet Satan still had, and exercised, his free will to reject God.

          • c a martin

            “where you would call me spawn of the devil (as you did above to another)”, I speak spiritually to one who claims to know Christ but only knows of Him and spreads lies and half-truths about Him, here and in other forums. Just as, spiritually speaking, one who is a anti-christ is simply one who denies Christ came in the flesh. That is the spirit of anti-christ. You said, ” In other words, I could pronounce to you – as hundreds of millions do –
            that my personal “truth” is the validity of the Hindu pantheon.” Indeed, and if someone were to debate with you on the validity of your Hinduism it would have to be within the framework of Hinduism. In other words you cannot debate against the myth of Christ when it is the Truth of Christ in which another stands. The myth is of your own making but the truth existed before you. Though I am convinced beyond any doubt I do not seek to convince anyone, nor is any Christian called to, but are called to spread the Gospel. To save is the work of the Spirit and not men. How often do you think that one finds something that they don’t believe in? Why would they even search? Knock and it shall be opened, seek and you will find. Once someone is filled with the spirit of the Lord how is it that anyone could presume they could convinced them He doesn’t exist? Those who sit on the fence may be drawn away and those who say they believe but are not truly with Christ may, and they are many for their own reasons, but those who are filled with the Spirit will never be. That is one thing unbelievers don’t understand, they debate flesh, but it is Spirit that binds believers to God, it was Him (Christ) who said He would not lose a single one and it is by His Spirit He accomplishes this goal. Love truth, Christ is truth.

          • PinxEngrayz

            “… you cannot debate against the myth of Christ when it is the Truth of Christ in which another stands.”

            That’s just tautology. It’s also an assertion you may fervently accept, but for which you offer no justifcation except your belief.

            I’d just advise you to refrain (at least publicly) from labeling people with whom you disagree as agents of a demi-god whom you assert is the embodiment of evil.

          • ltJaG


          • Trutherator

            From your own “science” [sic] link:
            “For all physicists know, dragons could have come flying out of the singularity,” Afshordi says in an interview with Nature.”

          • Freedom

            I found most people as Not Authorized are motivated by bitterness which has blinded them to the truth as recorded with the best historical accuracy instead of poor scholarship pretending to be some new radical revelation that somehow reduces Christ to a myth. Christ is unstoppable living reality freeing millions from darken paths. and never calls anyone to use violence but a path of peace. Buddhism is not so peaceful as they would have us believe but many even today turn in violence on adherents who leave the Buddhist faith to convert to Christianity.

          • Sean

            No left-wing sites please
            Please put the article or give a book a reference to the book that you’re claiming is a history that shows what you just said to be true. Show me the tome that refers to Yahweh as a tribal god. Oh you’re just parroting atheists that or to a 300 years old from Europe. Pseudo-intellectual

        • P. McCoy

          How do you respond to deaths of the firstborn sons (infants included) of Egypt?

          • c a martin

            Pharaoh should have listened to God. If God would have sent a messenger (prophet) to America back in the time of slavery, saying, let the slaves go! If you refuse this curse shall befall you. The slave owners didn’t listen and the curse just as it was said happens. This happens nine times, each time God through His messenger demands that the slaves be freed or this or that plague shall befall those who hold them captive. Each time the slave holders refuse and each time the punishment happens just as was said, Water to blood; frogs; lice; flies; disease livestock; boils; fire; locust; darkness. The slaves and their children remain in captivity suffering cruelties even unto death. Finally God through His messenger tells the slave owners that if they don’t free the slaves as He demands then death shall visit them. After being shown nine times that the curse would indeed happen if the slave owners didn’t listen, they choose death of their first born instead of listening to God. If you were a slave in America at that time and witnessed these things happen, how would you see the slave owners? Even if you mourned the death of the first born (many if not most were adults) what would you think of the arrogance and stupidity of the slave owners? How many of the first born of the slaves died at the hand of the masters those hundreds of years? Pharaoh should have listened to God. When your dad tells you not to run out into traffic or be killed or injured and nine times you watched nine people run out in traffic and get killed or injured after your dad told them not to, do you stick your thumb in dads eye an run out in traffic?

          • P. McCoy

            Perhaps Reuben and the other brothers of Joseph should have prayed to God to rid them of their envy and murderous ( remember, they lusted for his death) feelings towards their younger brother.

            Or maybe Jacob should not have been tricked into marrying Leah, by his dishonest father-in-law, when the former had honestly indentured himself and served the latter faithfully to marry Rachel.

          • cudasan

            firstly, nowhere in the bible does the christian god and jesus claim that slavery is evil, in fact it is one of the things that is okay to do. secondly in the bible yhwh refuses to allow the pharaoh to let the jews go, thus allowing yhwh to slaughter all of the first born sons.

      • heatherGirl

        And Democrats can flit between supporting slavery and civil rights? The Democrat party started in the south and, at the time of the civil war, supported slavery!

        So if we use your logic we can call the Democrats the party of slavery?

      • patricia travis

        dude, love is cool…… the meantime people are being slaughtered… God be with YOU as He obviously was not when these scumbags took charge. Good thing you are alive to pontifiacate……………

      • Vic George

        No, it means that the Old Testament must be interpreted through the filter that is Jesus Christ, who as God incarnate has brought forth the New Covenant of love and grace. If you’re not willing to put any effort to “study to show yourself approved unto God” to “rightly divide the Word of truth”, don’t blame God for your stupidity.

        • And yet how many Christians quote the Old Testament to condemn and marginalize those they don’t like? Is there a list of books of the OT that it is okay to quote from v. those not okay?

      • Sean

        This whole article is left is BS. The Old Testament covers a huge period of history which is very violent and includes not just the Jews but other people’s as well.if one was to read of Herodotus Persians or any history of Asia the Mongolians for example one would see the kind of violence that went on in Asia. The enemies of the Jews in the Old Testament are fighting with people who are for putting their own children on the altars and burning them alive these are the kind of people they were dealing with. Topical searches of the Bible are nice but if you actually read through it over and over and get what it’s saying it’s a very different story than the Quran. PS did it occur to anyone that actually read the Bible that the Jews actually disobey God and don’t wipe out these enemies and as a result they are attacked constantly for a 1000 years by the same people.

        • Sean

          psycho babble from a guy who doesn’t like fundamentalism = authority?????

          Wow we’re comparing a word count of violent incidents between a 4000 year old history and a biographical account of Mohammed’s life time which spans under 60 years.

          Now I want you to take a look at the violence committed by atheists both Nazis in communists and the like in the last 100 years.
          PS you can avoid Hitler’s public speeches because they are propaganda intended to perseade the mass who are christian. Hitler has two secretaries that have written Memoirs that you can buy on Kindle right now Albert Spears writings confirms what they’re saying and Hitler is not a Christian so you might want stop propagating myth. Do you really think TIME Magazine would make a Christian man of the year??? National SOCIALIST German workers Party NADAP ( Nazi)

      • befuddled

        It is referencing back to and moving forward to. Just as everyone does in their life …you refer back to a time when you we a mean little person and then flip forward to who you are today. The trials of all creation of anything will develop along the way. That’s why there is am Old And New Testament ….young and old….right and wrong…illegal and legal…hate and love…unforgiving and forgiving….sad and happy…..untrue or true….you cannot have one without the other. All are references of what was to what is. God has no grey areas ….we have grey areas and twist it to fit. GOD loves all however he does not love our actions. I love my children however I can hate their actions. That does not mean I hate them.

      • freedom is not a issue of translation when people use verses out context in the bible but scriptural ignorance. Any Christian who wants to impose what happened under Judaism is clueless. Christ called for a completely different way of living. The old testament was during a very brutal time in human history and God dealt with the Jews in a very different way. It is never to be an example for followers of Christ as he told us so clear in Matthews 5 not to hate but love our enemies. We are never to seek revenge but radically forgive. Whenever I attempt to bring up the heinous murders of over 200 million people by marxists who were devoted atheists in the last 100 years then suddenly they scream how wrong it is correlate that brutal history with atheism. It seem that it is more often atheists who flirt on twisting history to forward their agenda or defend their arguments.

      • Steve Granger

        No, Jesus came to give us a new covenant. No where does Christ ever tell us to kill or to adhere to OT practices. In fact, he came to free us from them.

      • Eric Haulenbeek

        Very poor translation, but it obviously fits your agenda. Your objectivity is also reflective of your inability to understand The Word anyway, so why do you even bother?

      • Steve

        In fact, that is a blanket statement that does not fit everyone. There are actually a lot of great christians I’ve met who use the old testament as historical reference only but the new testament is how they live their lives.

      • Bobby English

        Only the rich could afford them & soon they started preaching to the masses – God says you are to do this – that – & the other thing!
        The masses couldn’t read or write, nor could they afford manuscripts.
        This went of for thousands of years, until a Monk and the Printing Press “Kissed each other”!
        The 95 thesis that Martin put up on the church door aka Notice Board, was only a rough draught and was up for discussion. But some smart bloke took it down & got it to the printers & the rest is history!
        Martin was angry!
        Because he wanted to take some things out & put some other stuff in, but because of the rantings of the Pope, he let it go as it was.

        Even Jesus didn’t have all the manuscripts of the TANACH; because if he did, then there could be no way he would have sided with DAVID & SOLOMON, just 2 Jewish PERVERTS, who murdered & offered Human Babies for sacrifices.

        The GOSPELS are a Roman Farce, where they pull the fangs of Yahweh and make him out to be a Sugar Daddy!

        Muslims in the West do the same with Allah & Muhammad!

        WILFUL BLINDNESS by Margaret Heffernan!
        Its a MUST read!
        Its all about Cognitive dissonance!
        We are ALL brain-washed from childhood & find it very hard to see the opposite of what we were told! This book will help you to break free!

    • Guest

      More importantly, Jesus states that he has come to fulfill the law…which ought to give us a clue how to interpret contraversial Old Testament bits.

      • guest3

        The old Testament of the Bible is no mystery. For a duration of hundreds of years a lot of SHTF can happen. Same geographic region, but under the alternating rule of many powerful men with a violence index against its citizens ranging all from moderate to extremely oppressive. This folklore had eventually found its way to printed books as preserved by the scriptures and the apostles (the messengers).

    • Bob C

      Sorry, “Scrotie” –
      Your name says it all.
      The article is entirely factual.

      • Scrotie McBoogerballs

        The best you can come up with is an ad-hom? How sad and pathetic you must be to be living in fear of those “genocidal” Christians. Quick, hide yourself in the basement. They’re coming for you!

        On the other hand, you might just be a head-lopping Muslim, who believes in a prophet who was demonstrably a paedo.

        • Anthony Hope Marris

          “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you…”

          -Jesus Effing Christ

          Hard to believe someone so full of hate and venom could call himself a follower.

          • Llewellyn Andrew

            It is just Jesus Christ and I say it with no malice.

    • Trutherator

      Please see my more recent reply

    • Love I wish you well. I pray you will find Him. Pray to God that you can see who the hypocrites or satan followers are and don’t allow them to discombobulate the real truth. And forgive always. Psalm 43

      • Love

        This message was not particularly intended for “Scrotie” i didn’t realize that I replied to his, It was only that I read his last message and my comment followed his. See how easily things can be discombobulated? Satan will try and confuse and persuade people to be angry or hate one another. I believe there are many people on here who have been hurt by others and they blame it on God, religion, doctors, professionals and priests or ministers (who are all people and therefor sinners). There are many people out in the world who are hurting (I see this where I work) and it’s not just you. Please take care of yourselves but please please do not be selfish. We need more LOVE in this world and not hate.

    • Trevor Tobin

      I think you should say, ” the problem isnt JUST islam its all religious fundamentalism.”
      The way you say it now suggests that islam isn’t a problem at all, they are definitely the current religious fundamentalist problem, no?

      • Anthony Hope Marris

        The point is that the problem is not Islam per se. To put it another way, There’s nothing about Islam that makes it inherently more violent than any other religion. The problem of fundamentalism that is so strong in Islam, therefore, must have other contributing factors. If the headline read as you suggest, it would imply that Islam is a problem in and of itself, which does not seem to be the case.

    • ahva

      I got him on the Quran.. lets put his Crap to rest 🙂

    • Robert Barsocchini

      “the Bible is probably the most genocidal book in the literary canon” – Noam Chomsky

    • Anthony Hope Marris

      Please, what tripe. Are you prepared to make the same exceptions for the parts of the Qur’an that are no longer sought for (literal) moral guidance by the vast majority of Muslims? Why should the Bible include the Old Testament at all if Christianity “is based on” just the New Testament?

      In reality the Bible was stitched together over several centuries and had myriad contributing sources. Some DID call for violence, as the author has shown. Others did not, as you have demonstrated. To imagine that it is a cohesive body of work in any sense, then try to explain how we should take one part literal and ignore others, is absurd and “demonstrates a certain level of pig-ignorance about Christianity and The Bible.”

      I think what your comment shows is that ALL scriptures are subject to interpretation and manipulation by anyone who reads them, and like most things, they are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. So can we please stop having silly arguments about which scripture is objective better or worse? It’s a meaningless conversation and only serves to drive you further into your myopic rut.

    • Ricky Moore II

      So you are saying that the God of the old testament (vengeance and anger) is not the same God of the new testament?

      Sorry to hand it to you bud, but 9 times out of 10, Israel and the prophets were saved by KINDNESS AND GRACE.

      And that “New Testament God” of yours? Read Revelation. He’s just as full of VENGEANCE AND ANGER as the one in the Old Testament. Jesus even slaughters millions of people in Revelation 19 with a weapon of mass destruction (His mouth, lol).

      Or perhaps they are the same God, and that like the Bible says, God never changes and we have ALWAYS been saved by His good graces.

      Honestly Scrotie McBoogerballs,,
      You are a hypocrite who’s beliefs are based on falsehoods, who is calling out a hypocrite for believing falsehoods. lol

      Can’t think of a better example of the pot calling the kettle black.

    • Sean

      It is factually incorrect because these people do topical searches and they never bothered to actually read through the bible. I had a woman try to tell me that a woman is forced to marry her rapist. I was given chapter and verse, Within four verses of the verse is a verse condemning rapists to death. When you’re dealing with Americans you’re dealing with people who can’t read be on an eighth grade level You can trick them into believing anything. Forgive the writing I’m talking through text to speech on my phone.

      • Aaron McCray

        As someone who actually READ those scriptures (and the rest of the Bible), I can tell you haven’t because the former is correct, in context, and what you’re saying is wrong.

        The distinction between the rapist being put to death or not was whether the woman was MARRIED (or engaged).

        If the woman was married, the rapist was executed (only if the woman cries out).
        If the woman was not married, the rapist has to marry the woman and pay the father for them.

        That’s because, in the Mosaic Law, women and children were viewed as property, in an entirely male-centric culture. The offense was only against the MAN, in either case, with no regards for the feelings of the raped woman. Citation (with even more context):

        22If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

        23If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

        25But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

        28If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekelsc of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

        30A man is not to marry his father’s wife; he must not dishonor his father’s bed.d

    • polytical11

      I can see how you got your name.

    • truth

      Evolve from evil/ what about now people. I care about today moving forward. fighting about religion on a post is another mild form of the same big mess. Killing today and everyday moving forward in the name of any God is a lack of intelligence, barbaric, psychopathic and insane. Fighting about any religious book is a waste of time. Love is the answer and you do not need a book to tell you what is good or evil TODAY. Let the past be the past and live good. Let your conscience be your Religion. We feel what evil is the moment we see it because we have a conscience, it makes us want to vomit. Following any instructions to kill because of a God is old. There once was a time when the Mayans believed that the only way for the sun to rise was for ….. “Ritual Blood-Sacrifice among the Ancient Maya: We could go on about the instructions to kill in the past and getting smarter and wiser and yet still being ridiculously religious and murdering in so many religious ways. It is WRONG.

    • Cactus Pastor

      You also lack an understanding of Scripture. The God of the Old and New Testament is the same God. What you too lack is context.

    • paulalovescats

      Same old arguments. I used to think that. Was god so stupid he really thought it was okay to steal virgin girls and take them for sex slaves and it was an abomination to eat an oyster? He couldn’t tell them what they were doing was wrong? Bullshit. It’s all stories written by men.

      Take a look at your precious Jesus.

    • Blynn

      The problem is religion, of any sort. 2 Timothy 2:15 tells us to rightly divide the word of truth. No Pro-tes-tant rightly divides and neither do the RCs. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Ephesians tells us that the risen Christ gave a dispensation (God’s current program) of Grace which we currrently live in, where there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free, male or female, but all are one in the Body of Christ. We get into the Body of Christ by believing that Christ died for our sins, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day. Simply believe that. Religion sets works for salvation upon the believer. But Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us salvation is NOT of works. You don’t have to be baptized in water (1 Corinthians 1:17) today to be saved or for any other reason. Christ came to set-up a Kingdom for the Jews, as was prophesied in Isaiah, Zacharius, and other books of the OT. Matthew 10:5-6, Christ told his disciples to go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, go ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. And please show me where Christ rescended that before Paul was given the Grace without works message. Paul says of Christ that he was a minister of the Circumcision (Jews), for the truth of God, fulfilling the promises made unto the Fathers (OT Fathers). Romans 16:25-26 tells us about a Mystery (Secrets of God as in Deuteronomy 29:29) that was kept secret since the world began, until Paul in Acts 9. You see, Peter, James andJohn had their ministry to the Jews. They walked with Jesus while He was in His human form on the earth. But Paul was given the task to give the never before heard message of salvation by simply believing the Gospel of Christ as in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (Romans 1:16)
      Romans through Philemon is the Mystery that Christ taught to Paul for 3 years in the Ara1bian desert(Galatians 1:16-18). Please read the Bible verses from the King James Bible. I’m afraid if you’re using an NIV “bible” you may miss something, since there are some 64,000 fewer words in the NIV.
      It is Critical to read the KJB as it says, where it says it, and to whom it I’d saying it to. As an example James verse 1 is addressed to the twelve tribes scattered. Those are those Jews that heard The Kingdom Gospel which is, repent and be baptized. Is that gospel the gospel that Paul preached? No it is not. Paul said just believe that Christ died for your sins. Solely trust that.
      Questions: email

    • Dan Arnold

      Nonsense Scrotie. Apparently you don’t read the Bible and the calls for genocide. Genocide was demanded by God who, according to Christian theology, is one with Jesus. I don’t defend the absurdity known as the ‘trinity,’ but is the dominant view of Christianity today. If God commands genocide, then so does Jesus since he is part of this 3 cornered godhead.

    • Steve

      I find a lot of the “discussion” varies depending on the article. A lot of it is back and forth personal assaults and one up’s by most of the posts.

    • Mike Boone

      Back in the 1790s, the great Thomas Paine analyzed all of the so called prophecies in the Old Testament that Christians like to claim as having predicted Jesus, and then were supposedly fulfilled by his life as described in the New Testament. As Paine pointed out, passages from the Old Testament can’t come close to describing Jesus or major events in his life, unless some quite “creative translating” from the original Hebrew is done, often in combination with carefully taking statements out of context. When read in their full context, Old Testament passages that the book of Matthew, for example, claims were fulfilled by Jesus, are often revealed to obviously be about people and events that happened many hundreds of years before Christ. Although he was not Jewish, Paine’s view that the Old Testament never refers to Jesus, is shared by all of today’s most prominent Jewish scholars of the Old Testament. Of course these scholars have arrived at such a conclusion by actually reading the O.T. in the original Hebrew, and not depending on mere hearsay, which unfortunately, is the basis for Christian belief in prophecy. And the supposed “Gospel Truth” of books like Matthew is actually revealed to be Gospel Myth since the author of the book of Matthew, in the authorized King James Bible claims that Isaiah made a prophecy concerning a virgin birth which Isaiah never stated. The author of Matthew even changes the present tense of Isaiah’s statement to King Ahaz that a woman is with child to the future tense that a woman will be with child. Isaiah was actually telling the king that the woman giving birth to this child would be a sign to the king that his kingdom would survive a treat from the armies of 2 other kings. That child being born couldn’t very well be a sign to King Ahaz if he wasn’t going to be born until Christ’s time, 7 centuries after King Ahaz lived and reined. Old Testament scholars will also tell you that the Old Testament did set out quite a list of requirements for the savior that were not met by the Christ of the New Testament. For one thing, the Old Testament states that the savior was to me a mighty military leader who would successfully lead the Jews in overthrowing tyranny, certainly not a character that the Romans would crush like a bug.

      Evangelist Josh McDowell likes to go around promoting the myth that Jesus was the fulfillment of 300 Old Testament prophecies. But McDowell and his nonsense would be laughed out of the room if he was confronted with a group of Jewish Old Testament scholars who have spent their lives reading the oldest surviving Old Testament manuscripts in the original Hebrew. I used to work for a telemarketer that raised money over the phone for McDowell. McDowell and his ministry gave final approval to fundraising scripts that were so full of deceptive statements and fundraising tricks, that an intelligent person would never trust any claim made by Mr McDowell. Many characters like McDowell know full well that Thomas Paine was correct when concluding from his study that the O.T. does not refer to the Jesus of the N.T. But evangelists, knowing such claims lack validity, still ardently promote them, because it’s good for the “Jesus Business.” Christians should be embarrassed by supposed prophecies like the one that describes some man being hunted down and pierced with sharp objects, being claimed to be about the crucifixion, No cross, much less a crucifixion, is even mentioned or described but Christians desperately cling to vague accounts that the scholars of ancient Hebrew have never accepted for a minute. People like Josh McDowell actually have the nerve to state that the Old Testament contains so many hundreds of accurate prophecies predicting Christ and his activities, that the odds that all of these predictions could contain so much viable information sheerly by chance, would be 1 out of many trillions. If Mr McDowell’s claim was really true I can guarantee that my many intelligent Jewish friends, as well as many scholars and scientists would be adopting the Christian religion in droves. The problem is, biblical prophecies are so vague that you could probably apply as many of them to Abraham Lincoln or John F Kennedy as easily as you can to Jesus Christ. This prophecy nonsense should make people who believe in the claimed End Times prophecy in the New Testament wonder why the supposed biblical prophets never described how people live in modern times.

      Where are the descriptions of the phones people spend so much time on to converse with distant people? Many people in today’s world spend a couple hours daily watching TV shows or news coverage of faraway events. How did those dear prophets ever miss seeing the magic screens that more than half the world’s population watch to learn of events that are taking place all over the earth? The whole world held its collective breath in July of 1969 when Neil Armstrong became the first person to set foot on an extraterrestrial body. Boy, those make believe biblical prophets sure had quite a blind spot in missing the entire space race. They also totally missed the development of air travel, never even mentioning world leaders going to meet each other by flying over the oceans in big silver birds.

      Christians claim that the book of Revelation predicts the final battle of Armageddon in which that book fancifully claims that one thousand times two hundred thousand horsemen will fight it out. That’s 200 million horsemen gathered for a battle that would involve more than 50 times the number of troops that have ever faced each other in any battle in history. A couple well placed napalm bombs and you would see the largest stampede/disaster in all of history. Anyway, bible bamboozled Christians while having their noses in one of the only books they take seriously, seem to have somehow failed to notice that, unbeknownst to the prophet, modern wars are no longer fought on horseback. Well, at least intelligent people might have bought that nonsense a 100 years ago. And it’s too bad that the total horse population of the world is only 87 million. The costs of breeding and raising horses being what they are it does not seem possible that the world’s horse population will reach 200 million anytime in the next 75 years. And even if such a total was ever attained, all of those horses would have to be transported to the mideast, upon the orders of some really unbalanced leaders. Horses really would not stand up too well against tanks and the dropping of incendiary bombs. Anyway, Christians, you need not worry about the END until tens of millions of horses start showing up in the desert of the so called holy land. If Revelation’s author, John of Patmos, was alive today, hopefully he would be on some very strong medication to help quell all of those delusions that he ended up foisting on many other people who don’t have much of a grip on reality.

      The bible’s make-believe prophets are as phony as Jeane Dixon who most Americans living in the late 1960s thought of as “the woman who predicted JFK’s assassination.” That’s how the woman was promoted, and that falsehood became accepted as fact by most people. But just like most Christians will never check the validity of Old Testament prophecies by reading the original Hebrew in context, the vast majority of Americans never read what Dixon originally said that eventually lead to her being promoted as some great foreteller of future events. In a 1956 issue of Parade magazine Ms Dixon simply said: ” the 1960 presidential election would be “dominated by labor and won by a Democrat” who would then go on to “[B]e assassinated or die in office though not necessarily in his first term.” But then, in the actual election year of 1960, few people remember, Ms Dixon nullified her previous prediction by making the prophecy that Republican Richard Nixon would defeat Kennedy in the November election. At age 14, in 1965, I was one of the suckers who bought the book A Gift of Prophecy: The Phenomenal Jeane Dixon. Ms Dixon was sure careful in later years to conveniently neglect to mention the many bogus prophecies that came from her and her crystal ball.

      One never heard her mention after July 1969 that she had made a prophecy that Russia would be the first to land men on the moon or that she had stated that World War III would start in 1958. The woman is somewhat similar, in that one way, to bible believer and lunatic, Pat Robertson who in October 2008 stated that between the time of the next month’s Presidential election and the January 2009 inauguration, U.S. coastal cities would be victims of nuclear bombing after a war had started in the holy land. How fitting it would have been if Robertson had coined the phrase “Holy Shit!!” (Actually, that’s merely what one usually sees in his bathroom, the morning after eating a communion wafer)

    • Bobby English


      After destroying the world, just because they pissed him off, the JEWISH god mandates MOSES to commit GENOCIDE with the Midianites (Numbers 31:13-18).



      Jews and Christians are often baffled as to how atheists could deny the existence of their god, Yahweh. But they shouldn’t be. Jews and Christians deny thousands of the same gods that atheists deny. Atheists just deny one more god than Christians do (or three, maybe).

    • Boris


    • nonbeliever

      It is true that the Bible doesn’t call for genocide or murder of outsiders. It does provide examples of God having insisted on such in the past and it justifies killing people for for various infractions. Then there is the killing of women raped in town, and the selling and marrying of women to their rapists.

      Then there is the whole bit of Jesus comparing his god to a slave master repeatedly. Nothing like implicitly condoning slavery. Lets not forget the whole torturing people for eternity bit as well. So much for the merciful, forgiving god.

      Religion is poison. The high may feel good, but its just a high.

  • Franklin Beenz

    yes, and as I previously posted –

    Islamistic Terrorists Do Not Represent Islam just as terrorists of other faiths do not represent the other religions

  • Abigail Love

    The book of Genesis tells how the “sons of God” (which in Hebrew means Fallen Angels) took human women and had hybrid offspring. These offspring were against God and greatly multiplied upon the earth. The massacres of the Old Testament were against these fallen angel offspring. Read you bible and see. These offspring were the reason God sent the great flood and sent his people to war against them. The New Testament is about Christianity – Love God, love you neighbor, and Do Unto Others as you would have done unto yourself. True followers of Jesus Christ do not rape, murder, and plunder. Period. If they do those things they are not following Jesus.

  • Allezsandro

    See Jan Assman’s The Price of Monotheism: Whenever a body of religious “truth” is written down, it is an invitation to regard all other such “truths” as false, as heresies as, justification to exterminate, etc. – as a result of being unchangeable …

  • NVN777

    The Abrahamic religions are goofy and non-sense voo doo craps.

  • ErickDean

    Strange it is how serendipity works. I am just this very evening concluding a second reading of chapter
    20 in the book of Judges in the King James version of the Hebrew Bible which I have studied over the
    years and contemplated just exactly what these people were really like as humans. Though my ideas about religion have changed since my youth I feel this is the only source we have of the experiences of this people handed down to us over the years from their writers who assumed the authority of a higher
    being’s direction. Now if one adds up the numbers (and this is only one of many military encounters
    involving Israel, and the first among the descendents of the brothers of Jacob themselves!) in chapter 20 is described a three round battle between the tribe of Benjamin and the tribe of Israel sanctioned and encouraged by the god they worshiped in which some 40,000 Israelites and 25,000 Benjamites were smitten in an impassioned battle as intense as any the later nation of Israel itself was ever involved in! What parent (father?) would tolerate such murderous encounters of their sons let alone grant permission for them to do so and advise one against the other for such a horrific end and be considered sane? And these sunday school tales about the sweet suffering Jesus seem humorous when one examines everything he said including the fact that he did not come to bring peace but a sword and that a man’s worst enemies could very well be those of his own household!

    Adolph Hitler once accurately commented that the most wonderful thing for the governments is that “people don’t think”. I say the most wonderful thing for the organized religions is that people don’t

    • c a martin

      I have read the entire Bible many times and studied it over 35 years and you obviously have no spiritual discernment of its true nature and purpose.You think yourself wise because your able to add some numbers together and juxtapose your opinion against your own perceived wisdom and think you have accomplished something on the order of high intellect, but in reality come off as a pompous bore. I am doubtful you “study” in course, as there are in your mind more intellectual pursuits. You more than likely crack it open on occasion when in need of new material to mock its adherents or justify your bias.

      • Right. If I crack open Harry potter, and read it over and over again because someone tells me without proof, it is from the pen of God, you would call me delusional.

        You didn’t study very hard if you ask me.

        • c a martin

          I do not defend strawmen, you built him you defend him. Your personal incredulity is for you to defend as well and is nothing I can debate. You have offered nothing new in your links that I have not heard of or read before in many other works. You seem to be under the impression my knowledge is limited and small and my faith so weak as to be swayed by bias and ill researched writings of which apparently give you comfort. The one book on the two links at amazon I have no intention of wasting my money on. The website is replete with the same tired arguments I have heard time and time again, I have already dealt with them along with many other apologists on many other occasions and they are no more convincing now than they were than. That is not your interest anyway. If they offer you solace you read them. Your last paragraph is penned from ignorance and I doubt you know what a scribes function was then or in the new testament or even what that verse truly means in context. I certainly wouldn’t expect you to understand spiritual things as it is obvious you are a carnally minded man. I didn’t ask you and your answer would be wrong if I did and your entire argument is saying the Bible is a confidence trick and you write it at the end as if it’s a new argument. Goodby.

          • You are defending a strawman. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have none.


            Disprove everything in that website, Con Man.

          • c a martin

            I have no intentions of spending hours doing the bidding of a intellectually overextended petulant man.

          • That’s because you are a pathological liar, with no proof. Con Man. How much does it cost me to “Save my soul”. Lol. All my Gold? Peddle your wares elsewhere. This Creator rejects it.

            Pseudologia fantastica redirects here. For the Foster the People song, see “Pseudologia Fantastica”.

            In psychiatry, pathological lying (also called compulsive lying, pseudologia fantastica and mythomania) is a behavior of habitual or compulsive lying.[1][2] It was first described in the medical literature in 1891 by Anton Delbrueck.[2] Although it is a controversial topic,[2] pathological lying has been defined as “falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime”.[1] The individual may be aware they are lying, or may believe they are telling the truth, being unaware that they are relating fantasies.

          • 77Jack

            I wouldn’t say he’s a conman, but rather brainwashed and mind controlled. You’re not going to get him to reevaluate his beliefs because he identifies his belief with who he is; so, any attack on those beliefs is a perceived attack on him.

            This isn’t particular to Christians either. It involves all religions, government being the biggest and most dangerous religion of them all.

          • I Agree Jack. On many levels.

            But those that know the truth (as he claims he does, “knowing” history), and then turn around and peddle a different version of it.. one only supportive of his fantasy, really are practicing a confidence trick. They perpetuate the lie, knowing it is a lie, for self gratification and perceived power over others. Notice how he refuses to address any of it, yet tries to redirect it into his own version of history?

            The mind controlled and brain washed are simply those that believe, without allegedly “studying” it. The wolves are those that bullshit their way through the story, hoping to ensnare others because of gullibility.

            I think it’s a mental sickness. It should be called out, and treated as such. If I am wrong, I would like to hear your opinion on how to proceed with exposure?

          • 77Jack

            I guess my hang up is that I don’t think this guy is consciously trying to deceive anyone; which doesn’t make him a conman in my mind. I think his ignore-ance of your citations is more out of fear rather than any real desire to ensnare anyone.

            He “knows” what he knows because he’s told by other people what is true and should be accepted and what is a lie and should be ignored. Which is a pretty good description of 99% of the people in this world. Useful idiots is probably a better descriptor…the real conmen are the leaders of the various religious beliefs.

            I’m probably just splitting hairs 🙂

            Other than that I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying.

          • c a martin

            It’s not ignorance of citations, he wants and I quot. “Disprove everything in that website, Con Man,” that is just one site among many he gave me. That is just ridiculous on it’s face. That’s just dumping huge amounts of info on someone and sitting back, doing nothing and wait till he crawls out from under his pile to answer your first question. Works marvelous for him.

          • I rest my case. He is, and it’s obvious he’s trying to deflect and save his reputation now. His lie has been called out as bullshit, and now he needs to find someone to blame. It’s typical.

            The Christian Playbook is like clockwork. I was brainwashed just a bit too well in my youth. 😉 And I, have a very long memory.

          • c a martin

            Strawmen again, you sure do argue with yourself a lot. I have not tried to “prove” anything to you. I’m merely stating truth from my perspective. You on the other hand are beating yourself silly trying to prove me wrong and God not real.Your over the top ad hominum attacks that attempt to manipulate an emotional response in place of a compelling argument are not worth my time and I have wasted far to much on you already. Because you find things difficult to understand you make it out like it’s probably not true.You make claims and contend the burden is on me to disprove.You build strawmen misrepresenting what i say to make it easier to attack.You use circular reasoning where your conclusion is in the premise. Live a long life, as it is now it’s the only one you have.

          • “A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent’s argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.”

            My original argument = your book is fiction. You tell me it’s truth. It is not. From my perspective, it is a lie. You error.

            “He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption,
            meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim. Fulfilling the
            burden of proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing
            the burden of proof off to another party.”

            Given the previous links, I have fulfilled my burden of proof for my position. Historical Evidence Polytheism in Judaism (Psalm 82 is lovely), Asherah,, The Singularity, the Nature of the Universe as a 4d space with 3d wrapped around it as an event horizon, and the Hologram experiments. Do you think that is all I have for my proof? I have the weight of Google behind me. What do you have?


            Given I have accomplished all reasonable expectations of burden of proof, now, it’s to another party. You.

            Your turn. – Disprove, every, single, one, of that mans points. In detail. Addressed directly. Make your website. Each page, counter pointed, with absolute, cross checked, and historical backing.

            Being studied in bullshit, still makes it bullshit.


            PS, I never said I don’t believe in God. 😉

            Keep moving your goalposts. My goalpost is exactly where I started out. Your story is bullshit. Look how your goalposts have moved.

          • c a martin

            Open your ears I had no intent to prove any thing it is you pressing me to do so. And when I refuse you claim I’m somehow wrong. Your trying to shove your opinion down my throat. Everything I’ve written to you is in response to you not as the initiate but as the respondent the burden of proof is on you.. “My original argument = your book is fiction” and now the burden is on me to prove it isn’t? you say the proof is in your links hog wash you have the burden to prove your links are true. You think I’m going to run around and prove entire websites wrong? Do your own work. Prove your original argument.

          • I did my own homework. The burdon of proof that your story is true, lays on your shoulders now. Again, thousands of links at my disposal. You come with the false reasoning you have truth. Posting and trying to misled people . You don’t have it. People will call bullshit on it here.

            So, You claim you have truth? Prove it. You don’t even want to click on the links because you know what they will say. The best argument you have, is simply making me copy and paste the same text in the links? Why, you’d ignore it to. You ignored the Cyrus Cylinder, and others.

            Ignoring the links, doesn’t made the content in them vanish. You know, like Discovery pointing out the failed deleting of Asherah from the text. How does that jive with monotheism and inerrancy? Wait, editing? Uh oh. Someone is lying. What else was added and edited? Omg, it’s a work of fiction in progress!

            Busted. One link and simple and wondrous critical thinking.

            Did you want to discuss the Ugartic religions of the era? Contemporary with YHWH simply one lesser God in a pantheon if tribal God’s? Hiw about Christ’s words in who was the first murder, and YHWH killing over 2 million people. Conflict resolution demands Christ lied, or YHWH is Satan.

            Move those goalposts. Place those red herrings. Use your ad hominem. I’m Satan, blah blah blah

            You are guilty of the very thing that you accuse others of.

          • c a martin

            That is beyond ridiculous. I can see you in debate class. Mr. Authorized; rebuttal? Yes heres 10 websites prove them in their entirety wrong. Mr. Martin? Well sir I’ll have to get back to you in a year maybe more.So you get to sit on your duff while you send me across the web like a chicken with my head cut off were other people have done your work for you and you sit and reviling in your wisdom. How about I just keep sending you links to web sites on Christian apologetics and you get back to me in a year? We can have a links debate. May the better link win.

          • Hello Again.

            Still here to peddle your lie? Was that was the best retort you could come up with? Nothing disproving Erhman’s research that YHWH was not the Father, but a different God, in some early Christian sects? Or Christs own words on who was the first murderer vs YHWH’s 2,000,000 dead in the OT? Nothing to refute the example that Asherah and artifacts found surrounding her, and the redaction in the text?

            No retort? Nothing? Nada? Silence? No disputing the burden of proof of the veracity of your CLAIM now resides on you, as I used web-links as my references to my position, like a term paper?

            Just “WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, no fair. You have the internet. You can’t use other peoples proofs, just believe my lie instead. That’s the way it should be!! Honest, I’m telling the truth!!”

            I know Christianity has an oppressive disbelief system attached to it. I recognize it for what it is as well. You attempt force people agree and assume that physical reality is split into Heaven, Hell, and Earth. That is a Geocentric view, disproved by science centuries ago. Reality is not like that at all. Its yet another lie perpetuated by the supposed people following truth. Quantum Physics is demonstrable reality. You already have devices that use aspects of it, like LED lights.

            Definition: “A compulsive liar is someone who lies with ease and finds comfort in it. The person may even continue to lie when presented with the truth in cold, hard facts. Getting a compulsive liar to admit he or she lied can be nearly impossible.”

            Bummer for you. I know you’ll never admit it. Thats why I’m not talking to you. I’m talking, and presenting evidence for other people to review. Those that might believe your bullshit because they do not know any better.

            But since you are insistent, lets focus on picking it apart right in front of them now.

            Inerrancy Definition:
            noun 1. lack of error; infallibility.

            “Frame (2002) insists that this is a stronger term than “inerrant”. “‘Inerrant’ means there are no errors; ‘infallible’ means there can be no errors”

            That’s my requirement for truth. Absolutely no errors. Errors = Lies = Deuteronomy 18 False Prophet = Toss it out. My fundamentalist teachers brainwashed me about what infallibility means very well.


            See, I’ve already done my homework through all those Christian apologetic websites too. Ya know what I “observed”? Some contradictions still do not have answers provided by the apologists. That link above? It gives the Christian apologetic view, and website that authored it, if they could apologize for the contradiction found. Some of the apologetic reasoning’s were reaches, and also bullshit, but I’ll be generous, and grant you 50% of them. The other 50%? Lol. *looks up the Inerrancy definition again*. Oops. Shouldn’t claim such nonsense if you can’t back it up.

            Note, just in case you missed it on on that link, some of the contradictions listed, still do not have any apologetic answer. Bummer. So much for your apologetic link claim. Been there, done that. I used to use them. LOL. Bet you wouldn’t complain about the internet, for those Christians who use them to try to keep the lie going, right? Hypocrite.

            Let’s continue.

            Here’s a preview of my thoughts on Deuteronomy 32:7-8
            “International Standard Bible Encyclopdia, Vol. 4, on page 584, art. ‘sons of God’ has to say regarding this text:

            “…the MT [masoretic text] erroneously has “sons of Israel” [bene yisrael], but the versions [e.g., LXX, Symm, Old Latin] and a scroll from Qumran support the reading “sons of God” [bene elim.]”

            Then it goes on to say the following:

            “In other words, the Most High assigned one of the peoples of the world to each of the divine beings in the council. As v.9 indicates, Yahweh’s portion was Israel. The original notion seems to have been that Yahweh, God of Israel, stood alongside the other national gods in a council presided over by the Most High.”

            Uh oh. That smacks of Polytheism. Exactly what I have been saying. One of 70 Gods. And that, is only a FRACTION of what I know about Deuteronomy 32 alone.

            We haven’t even gotten to what Psalm 82 really says yet. And I will use every resource at my fingertips to crush your lie, without reservation, restriction, or care what you call or accuse me of.

            Walk away. You are dealing with someone way above your pay scale.

          • c a martin

            Jesus Christ, came from the father, indwelling the flesh, died for our remission of sins an now lives forever more and sits on the right hand of the Father. He shall return and gather all those who are His, to himself. For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son and whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The Disciples and the Apostles were told to spread the Gospel not prove anything to anyone, nor are they recorded ever trying. You either believe or don’t. They debated with the Jews who already believed the Messiah was to come that Jesus was the one. I have done much study for my own benefit and enjoyment and will continue to do so and will continue to not be motivated by use of Scripture to be manipulated; or be degraded or harangued into doing anything, as you do to all Christians you come across on the net, or kowtow and jump through the hoops of God haters. You can think anything you want of not wanting to suffer you any longer, but I am quite content to let you stew in your juices. You once spoke to a Hebrew speaking man, of course he knows all the parts of speech and all the nuances of the jots and tittles, It being his native language,and quite adept at the original Hebrew of the old Testament I might add. He explained the area of the verses of the pen and the dividing of the people. Did you read it correctly interpreted in the context of that chapter? You didn’t have anything to say then, but did you ever get back to him on that? You do know he was simply reading it as you read English and he was right don’t you? You do remember your requirement for truth don’t you? You must toss out that entire website filled with the spirit of the antichrist don’t you? No matter how much you badger and bash Christians you come across you will never ever stop the work of the Holy Spirit. ALL HONER AND GLORY AND PRAISE AND POWER TO THE FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT!


            I’m am the observer. You have been deleted from the book of life. Congratulations.

            Told you to walk away.

          • c a martin

            Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ

          • Thanks!! You are still blotted out.

          • c a martin

            Bless you in the name of Christ whom is the only All Powerful Judge.

          • Paul would not agree with you.

            1 Cor 6:2 or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?…

            Yet another lie. You are really confused about your own religion says.

            Should we apply Deuteronomy 18 to Paul?

          • c a martin

            Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.

          • Great!!! Thanks. You are still blotted out for practicing lawlessness. Smile. Matthew 25. Wink.

          • c a martin

            Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ. All Honer, Power, Glory, and Praise to the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit! The Creator of the Heavens, Earth and Seas and all that is in them! Author of wisdom, life joy and beauty! Glorious is He in all his splendor there is none like Him! There is no end to His mercies. Holy is He, praise His Holy Name! The God of Abraham, Issac and Joseph Faithful is He. He is my God and High Tower, in Him I trust! His rod and His staff they comfort me! Let the redeemed of the Lord say so! Amen!

          • The Singularity says thanks for the praise, but you seem to be missing from my book. So no, your not redeemed. 🙂


            In their proposed scenario, our universe was never inside the singularity; rather, it came into being outside an event horizon, protected from the singularity. It originated as – and remains – just one feature in the imploded wreck of a four-dimensional star.
            The researchers emphasize that this idea, though it may sound “absurd,” is grounded firmly in the best modern mathematics describing space and time. Specifically, they’ve used the tools of holography to “turn the big bang into a cosmic mirage.” Along the way, their model appears to address long-standing cosmological puzzles and – crucially – produce testable predictions.
            Of course, our intuition tends to recoil at the idea that everything and everyone we know emerged from the event horizon of a single four-dimensional black hole. We have no concept of what a four-dimensional universe might look like. We don’t know how a four-dimensional “parent” universe itself came to be.

          • c a martin

            Blessed be the Name of Jesus Christ. All Honer Glory and Power to The Father The Son and The Holy Spirit. GREAT GLORIOUS FATHER MAGNIFY YOUR NAME! Rebuke the spirit oh Lord Jesus who mocks Your Holy Name! Rebuke that spirit of the antichrist who says You have not came!

          • He can’t hear you. I deleted YHWH from the hologram last month.


            Again, thanks for the praise. I am time. Still, i can’t find your name in my book.

          • c a martin

            For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

          • You’re not dead to Christ’s law. Love God, and treat thy neighbor as thyself.

            Read the law, lawless one.


          • c a martin

            There is therefore now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to flesh, but according to Spirit. For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death. For the Law being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous demand of the Law might be fulfilled in us, those not walking according to flesh, but according to Spirit. For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit. For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be. And those being in the flesh are not able to please God. But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.

          • Jesus is Our Advocate
            …3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:…

            You failed the Golden rule. Bummer. You are outside him. You’ve been blotted out. Paul warned you to treat everyone liked they were agents of God.

            Walking around in your own lusts, just like Paul said.

          • c a martin

            Truly I say to you, All the sins will be forgiven to the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they have blasphemed; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit has no remission unto the age, but is liable to eternal judgment

          • The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

            Wrong priesthood. Wink.

            Game over. Goodbye ghost of Enlil. The source is calling for you.

          • NotAuthorized talks like a troll..

          • I am unimpressed. Are you sure? Or, is something different about me?


            Interesting yeah?

            It gets even more interesting when using this book here, as a lens.


            Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Every day that passes make it smell more and more like a fabricated religion to me, kind of like L. Ron Hubbard’s Scientology. How does that always happen?


        • What a crock of historical fantasy those links are…

          • Thank you for your opinion, written without substance refuting any points raised in either of them. The feeling is mutual about your insane desert God religion, invented by desert nomads with a touch of desert madness. At least, i can back my claim using empirical evidences. Can you? Or if faith in Harry Potter good enough?

      • James Williams

        Dude, you didn’t offer a single counter-example, just an ad hominem. You should be ashamed.

        • c a martin

          I had no intent to offer counter-examples on his opinion.

      • See my reply to ErickDean….

    • ErickDean you’re avoiding the context of course, unless you advocate the brutal gang rape murder that a bunch of men from the tribe of Benjamin had committed against a woman.

      The man she was traveling with sent graphic word to all the tribes of Israel. There was no government, but they were all so outraged they gathered outside the town and demanded that the town give up the rapist killers for justice.

      The town refused so the group demanded that the rest of the tribe turn them over.

      The entire tribe of Benjamin, ALL of them, refused, and even promised to protect the killers. So the army of the other tribes enforced the law of the non-aggression principle, and the result is written in those chapters.

      NO GOVERNMENT NEEDED, NO POLICE, NO WARMONGERS OR ISRAELITES were tolerated. No militarized police force or occupation force like the empires around them, no great palace, no prisons, no taxes. Even the tithe was voluntary; God handled that one.

      “Them that hate me love death”. Benjaminites loved death at that time and paid for it, as the USSA will pay for the crimes of the masters that they (we) tolerated in power…

  • Penn Amos

    Washington’s Blog, I am disappointed. You have it all wrong, and so does Scrotie McBoogerballs down below. The God of the OT is indeed the God of the NT, and people being herem-ed in the OT stories were not people – they were a genetic mix of humans and demonic DNA. You can call that murder and genocide if you want, but I’m pretty sure killing earthly demon creatures would actually be a good thing. What’s wrong with you guys? Read a book. And start with Chapter 6 of Genesis again, then maybe the book of Enoch. I mean really, Washington’s Blog, you could have googled this and found the reason behind the “genocide” and the flood beforehand. For all your appropriately placed mistrust in the establishment of government education, you would do good to realize there is also such an establishment controlling the education of religious knowledge too, and as with public schools, their favorite topic to distort? History. And now this article is featured at LRC… tsk tsk tsk. Disappointing.

    • Lord Palmerston

      Quite a reach.

      Your interpretation is one that very, very few Christians accept. You are entitled to your interpretation but one should not think that there are very many Christians out there that agree with your interpretation. Much like the way in which very few Muslim agree with the sects of Islam that interpret the Quran to endorse aggressive violent Jihad against innocent people. Historically, we could freeze frame at a certain time in history and look at the actions of Christians at that time and try to imply that everyone in that religion endorses that behavior. For example, the Byzantine Empire tortured the Coptic Christians in Egypt during the time of the Muslim conquest of Egypt. These Coptic’s were very happy to receive the Muslims during that time in order to be relieved from the oppression of the Byzantines. The forced conversion of Muslims and Jews during the Spanish Inquisition might be another point in history that could tell a very different story about Christians than one most Christians would endorse today.

      Also, reading the agreement of Umar when the Muslims conquered Syria might give you an idea of how respectful Muslims were of other people of the book (Jews and Christians). Today’s tax rates are also much more oppressive then the jizya during the early part of Muslim conquests.

      In summation, studying history is the cure for both Islamaphobes and radical Jihadis.

  • wwr

    The 3 western religions all came from the land near UR- a city near the rivers in today called Iraq. Abram moved to Israel with his god Yaweh who mutated into Jahova. Jesus is a mutation as is Allah and all spring from the old Hebrew stories. The bible is the starting place of all 3 religions and was changed every few hundred years to suit the ones copying it. In a few hundred yeras it will change again. The radicals of all 3 religions are very similar and all should be stood against the wall and shot.

    • c a martin

      Your wrong.

  • Penn Amos

    false again, wwr. there are 4500 copies of the New Testament which date back to the first century AD – some copies of which were made by people who had actually known or seen Jesus himself. This is more copies than almost another other ancient text, few of which date so close to the events purported to happen in them as the NT. If it had been distorted it would be incredibly, impossibly hard to do – so no, Jesus was definitely real. Dont be a clown. Also, your crap analysis of “god Yaweh who mutated into Jahova” – no. Yahweh is a functionary form of pronunciation of the four-consonant, no vowel name for God made up of the hebrew letters yode hei vav hei. Transliterated into english, some interpret these characters as YHWH (which is subsequently pronounced Yahweh), and some interpret them as JHVH (which is subsequently prounounced Jehovah). There was no “mutation”, get real bro. I thought this website was anti-establishment? I love the Great God Yahweh and, in my rare case, it’s not because Ive been trained to by adults. It’s because I looked into the truth behind the lies and came to the only obvious conclusion – that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is indeed real, has saved this earth from demonic destruction on several occasions, loves us all very much!, and is coming back expressly soon in the form of Jesus Christ to restore this place back to pre-genetic-fall conditions.

  • neoconned

    The Crusades were “…largely a defense against attack.” See what I did there?

  • HC Duran

    Genocide is wrong because man does not have the right to murder innocent life, let alone on a wholesale basis. The authority to kill others can ONLY come from God and His Law, in order for the killing to not be murder. But God does have the authority to extinguish life, none of which is “innocent” compared to Him, and thus order men to do so. Every such OT situation where He ordered such has to do with the people in question behaving contrary to His law or plan, not on a whim.

    So it comes down to whether one believes the Old testament is the Word of God, and true record of God’s record of dealings with, and delegation of tasks to man. If one calls the OT killings genocide, they are defacto saying the Bible is not from God, or that God does not have the right to order those deaths. It will be an interesting Judgement day for many, when they have a conversation about that claim, and are held to account for daring to presume they have a higher moral standard than God Himself.

    • James Williams

      So basically, believe a badly written, self serving Jewish text which approves of incest (e.g., job and his daughters), gang rape (e.g., leviticus 19), genocide and all the rest, or you are going to hell.

      What a brilliant argument. You will truly join the ranks of Augustine and the rest of the elite christian theologians with that one.

      Your ‘God’ sounds truly horrid, by the way.

      • HC Duran

        Sounds like you are exhibit A of the horrid people who want to judge God, if you disagree with what He has done. You also want to presume the OT (that Jesus Himself confirm was inspired by God) as merely “self serving Jewish text”—i.e., you know more than Moses et al about how immorality had to be addressed in ancient times. All the particular ‘approvals’ you mentioned are explained in context in the scriptures, if youone is willing to defer your own moral framework to God’s (which you are plainly unwilling to do).

        The world is not a Broadway musical, where good and bad are entertaining abstractions. It is more like a horror movie, where thinking you are ‘good’ is not good enough to avoid destruction. It is SIN that is horrid, and makes you eternally separated from God, the ONLY standard for good, unless you believe on Him to attain righteousness, not the abstractions.

        CS Lewis said Christ did not allow a reader to cop out and call him just “a great moral teacher”—based on the gospels, he had to be either crazy, or exactly who he claimed to be. Likewise, the OT does not let you cop out and call it “wonderful teachings” while not believing it. You must embrace it fully, or reject it.

  • freewheelinfranklin543

    Maybe various governments should stop funding,arming and training religious fundamentalist whackos and using them as their private mercenary armies. This author has no idea as to who and what and why these nuts exist to begin with!

  • Derelictus

    My understanding is that the Old Testament calls for specific “wiping out” of certain tribes of people, but these are specific in their time and place, and not open-ended calls for genocides of un-believers at all times. Whereas the Quran specifically states to slay unbelievers as long as they exist. AFAIK most studies that aren’t mired in leftist bias support this. Please correct me if I’m wrong; I don’t have any specific inclinations either way.

  • Micah

    To come to these conclusions is a gross misunderstanding of Christianity. If you haven’t studied the faith, don’t comment on it. It would be like me critiquing a technical paper by Einstein.

    Islam, as a creation of the Roman Catholic church, was used to rid Eastern Europe of apostolic Christians, so the catholic church would have no more competition from sola scriptura believers. If you inaccurately label roman catholicism as Christian, then yes, it is a violent religion. But, they are not true Christians, but luciferians with a facade of Christianity. They evolved from the Roman empire and it’s pagan practices into pseudo-christianity that has as its goal, world domination.

    Believe me, they are setting up now, to make their move.

  • jaimeintexas

    Total BS. There is a lot violence in the Old Testament but whomever wrote this blog is ignorant and, my guess, really has not even read the Old Testament.
    1) Historical narrative does not necessarily means an endorsement by God or because of God’s command.
    2) Some of the accounts of wars/battles are clearly without God’s sanction.:
    3) Some of the wars/battles are commanded by God. Every single instance, whether you agree, the conflict is bound in time and land and it is in judgement of the peoples being fought. God even used others to punish Israel.
    4) There is no universal call for war and violent judgement.
    5) Some Scriptures are metaphorical, too.

    • 77Jack

      I can hear the Muslims and the Jews saying the same thing about their religions when someone dares to characterize their beliefs as violent.

      • jaimeintexas

        Jews …. duh! Brilliant observation! Old Testament = Pentateuch, Books of the Law, Major and Minor Prophets, Songs and Poetry.

        Muslims and the Qur’an. Here I defer to better informed. It has been a long time since I read it — not all but large portions. If I remember correctly, the Qur’an does make general statements of principles, not bound in time, regarding deceiving, attacking and subjugating the People of he Book.

        BTW, are you familiar with the saying “we will start on Saturday and end on Sunday?”

        • 77Jack

          Look smart guy you obviously didn’t get what I was saying. It doesn’t matter to a Muslim if you’ve read their book anymore than it matters to a Christian or Jew if you’ve read theirs, they will all say that you are interpreting it wrong if you point out the violence and hypocrisy found therein.

  • Freespirit

    A study of the TALMUD would also reveal a lot about Jewish religion and reveals ALL religions are or have been murderous and destructive

  • GrumbleCrunch

    As usual, I accessed this article via, and also – as usual – was excited to read it. The misinformation, illogic and ignorance it displays is not worthy of you.
    ONE thing that leaped out at me (there are plenty more): the mention of Hitler and his claim to be a Christian (by inference sullying Christianity and Christians), which reminded of a statement by Bob Wallace: “…apparently he [George W. Bush] thinks if someone calls himself a conservative, then he is a conservative. If I call myself rich and handsome, that doesn’t make me Sean Connery, does it?”
    The Quran is replete with verses that call for “infidels” to become Muslims, pay a tax or be slaughtered.
    The New Testament, on the other hand, repeatedly calls for Christians to forgive, “turn the other cheek” and “…pray for those who despitefully use you” NEVER does the New Testament call for violence, or even coercion.
    You conflate the New Testament with the Old Testament as a single Christian guidebook. This is 100% inaccurate. The New Testament gives we Christians our “marching orders”, and the Old Testament is the history of how things were before Christ’s arrival.
    Seems to me you have offered opinion about a subject on which you are woefully ignorant. I am not only disappointed in you, but also in for posting the article.
    However, I wish you well in your future endeavors!

  • James Williams

    I am not a Christian, but even a basic reading of the ‘Bible’ shows that Jesus preached a gospel of peace. The part of the ‘Bible’ that contains exhortations to genocide, rape and all the rest is the Pentateuch, which is a Jewish text, not a Christian one. Christ repudiated the doctrines in the Pentateuch, preaching a doctrine of universal salvation instead of one based on race (and other aspects, like the quality of one’s ‘stones’).

    Of course, Christians are much to blame for taking inspiration from a rather violent and horrid Jewish text. I can’t tell you how many times I have listened to Christian sermons or radio, marveling at the extent to which they avoid talking about anything from the New Testament. Most Christians are deluded Old Testament worshippers who have probably never read the Sermon on the Mount (and would likely consider it heretical).

  • 77Jack

    War isn’t going to go away until people let go of their beliefs in fictions. Belief is the only thing that truly divides humanity.

    • AnCap

      Democide kills more than all religions. Look it up. I’m sure you believe in the State. The State has no right to exist.

      • 77Jack

        Incorrect. Democide has killed more than all OTHER religions.

        The State doesn’t actually exist; it’s just a collection of people who BELIEVE in a fiction.

  • Chris Ritchie

    So sad to see the divide between us all. “not authorized” lists the U.N. Human Rights Code as his gospel. It’s right there on his profile.

    if that’s what you want to believe. What I can’t understand is that
    Jesus didn’t ask people to believe because of only what he said, but
    what he said plus the works that accompanied his ministry. Please see
    John 10:31-38.

    Folks, you should know that there is proof for the existence of Jesus and of God. First, open your eyes:
    ” For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and
    changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like
    corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.” – Romans 1:20-23

    Jesus really did walk the earth and perform miracles. And yes, he
    still lives and performs miracles today. He is the Son of God. Many
    thousands upon thousands of people throughout history have experienced
    the presence and very real miracle of Jesus in their lives. Do as the
    skeptics say, check it out, but don’t be deceived. They are the ones who
    are deceived in their own hearts and God has allowed them, sadly, to
    now be blinded.

    Check out these links for intellectual arguments:
    Dr. Simon Greenleaf –

    Then there are the near death experience stories and tales of sudden conversions; oh, and stories of angels!

    don’t be cowed by pseudo-intellectuals on the Internet claiming that
    they’ve really researched while you don’t know what you’re talking
    about. Nonsense. If they were open, they’d be closer to God than they
    are instead of trying to pull people away from God as “not authorized”
    is trying to do here. I just wanted to let people know that many, many
    people in history with much stronger credentials than “not authorized”
    came to the conclusion that Jesus is real.

    Pray to God
    yourself. He can defend himself. This article obviously knows little
    of the Old Testament or the book of Enoch. I agree with another poster,
    it all hinges on Genesis 6 and who those people really were.
    The Lines of Seth: A Brief History of Heresy – search for this title on Amazon.

  • gdod25

    To believe that war will no longer be after religion is gone is just silly. Some of you atheists can’t even drive your car without screaming at other drivers. It is mans selfishness that is the problem and as for killing in the name of religion, well that’s just Machiavellian politics, murderers posing as religious.

  • ErickDean

    I have always respected the opinions and belief systems of others and have never found that a
    problem even though I disagreed with their expressions. However, I find nothing more disturbing
    than the kind of venomous attack being leveled here by a very hostile neurotic entity identifying itself
    as c. a. Martin. I will dignify its neurotic, caustic manner of expression with no more than the recommendation that you look longingly in your nearest mirror and ask yourself the question
    by whose authority do I judge the character or minds of others whose opinions evoke such anger
    in myself?

    Apparently l am not the only target of your filthy, deceitful, neurotic idiocy, for I have taken notice of
    your caustic response to the commentary of others with whom you disagree on this website as well.

    Judge not lest ye yourself be judged.

    • c a martin

      Up here in the branches now? Hissing subtleties in peoples ears as they pass by? Last time I was here you were on the ground. Do you think when Christ fashioned a whip and drove the money changers from the temple and overturned their tables that people were saying, that’s not very Christian! Love your neighbor as yourself! Judge not lest you be judge! Hypocrite! History doesn’t record, but He obviously didn’t care what they were saying if they were. The subtlety of your insults, consciously, or subconsciously done are still insulting. As long as its couch in smooth words I have no right to be insulted, right? I judged your words, you judged God, I speak of this judgement as the nonspiritual consider judgement, not as a spiritual judgement.

      • Lorin Chane Partain

        The case of Jesus chasing out of the Temple was a case of self defense. Remember Jesus called the Temple “my Father’s house.” It was literally the place where God’s manifest presence dwelt on the earth. So Jesus believes in and practices self defense against aggression and thievery. This is consistent with the principles of liberty, and God’s decrees in the OT.

        • c a martin

          Amen. Words of truth.

  • Lorin Chane Partain

    As a fundamentalist AND a libertarian there is much to discuss here and set straight.

    First of all the idea that a call by Muhammad to violence against all unbelievers “everywhere you find them” is less violent then a specific call by God to the Jews to violence against a specific group at a specific place and time because the call is for that groups complete annihilation is simply false. Muhammad is calling for violence against all non-muslims in that passage, which in today’s population is about 6 billion people. The God of the Old Testament is calling for total annihilation of an infinitesimally smaller amount of people. Violence is horrible but less of it is less of it and not somehow more as according to NPR logic.

    Second the reason for the violence needs to be taken into consideration. On the one hand Muhammed calls on Muslims to violence merely for an unwillingness to convert. This seems mainly directed at pagans and Jews, there are some protections for Christians but there doesn’t seem to be any good reason given for the discrepancy. Compare this to God in the Old Testament who is standing in judgement over a specific people group for their wickedness. We know from historical records that many of these pagan tribes that lived around the ancient Israelites were engaged in horrendous crimes and sins including beastiality, murder of children, and in fact cannibalism of their own children was a common practice in worship to some idols. I would submit to you that capital punishment and murder are not the same thing. Calling for death for merely disagreeing about religious views is calling for murder. Calling for death because of previous crimes of violence is capital punishment. That God called the Israelites to carry out that punishment is immaterial to the moral issue. It does not violate the NAP to say that the punishment should fit the crime. If your eating your own children, and sacrificing them to Baal, you get what you deserve.

    Third it is important to look at Who is calling others to violence. On the one hand we have Muhammed, a man with a dubious past sexually, seemed to like children, and a spotty record in influencing anyone of anything until he turned to violence. On the other hand we have Samuel, a man also, but one who merely spoke the words given to him by God and committed no other acts himself. To the extent that the passages are quoted in the text as if they were from God himself. It seems clear to me that Muhammed was making his own proclamations as he chose to do so, and changed his saying as the political climate changed. Where as Samuel is extremely consistent and doesn’t waiver as if a man who is simply delivering a message. Very different. Which leads me, and 2 billion others, to view Samuel as a true prophet of God declaring His will, and Muhammed as a liar.

    Fourth, it seems clear that groups that suffered God’s judgement were warned multiple times about what was coming if they did not change their ways. We know that prophets were sent not only to the Jews but also to pagans. The results often times were the deaths of the prophets by some very violent means. The entire book of Jonah is about a prophet who was sent to a pagan nation to warn them, and when they changed their ways God spared them his judgement. How many times should you be warned against murdering and theft and cannibalism before you should face judgement for your crimes? Seems to me the God of the Old Testament is merciful in allowing it to go on for any length of time.

    Wether you believe God is real or not, you have to accept the fact that the principles being laid out in the Old Testament are of a fundamentally different nature then what we find in the Koran, and that is the real issue here. God’s judgement against specific wickedness is on display in the Old Testament, as opposed to a wide net of violence for mere non compliance with one man’s religious views which is what the Koran is calling for.

    On the issue of “fundamentalism” by the way. The word fundamentalist never existed until the turn of the 20th Century. It specifically refers to a movement of Christians who published a work call “The Fundamentals”. This book was a call to and an explanation of the fundamentals of the Christian faith specifically. I seriously doubt that anyone who bandies about the word “fundamentalist” has ever read it. You won’t find a single call to violence in it. There is no fundamentalism aside from this context, it is common for left/liberal/secularist to bandy about the term and attach it to every terrorist organization they can as it allows them to demonize their opponents in the culture wars. However, fighters in Iraq who want a political reality, an Islamic State, have nothing to do with fundamentalism which is a modern theological Protestant movement.

    One last thing, that some Christians, so-called, throughout history have used OT passages of God’s judgement on wicked peoples to justify their own acts of violence is in no way a reflection on the Bible, God nor on fundamentalism. We can make the same kind of ad hominem argument against almost any philosophy including Atheism, who btw have killed more then any other group. Men bent on their plans may and will find any justification to ensure that their violence carries through and even with at least some political support. That however does not mean that they are correct in their views. It is however far more likely the case that these men grabbed onto Christian themes in order to make themselves and their deeds appear to be moral when in fact they were not only immoral but also un-Christian. This has been going on since Constantine, it won’t end soon. Fortunately Christians do not follow other Christians, we follow Christ, and Christians do not set the agenda for Christ, He sets the agenda for us.

    • Man on the street

      It is correct that the OT is full of violence about as much as the Koran. Actually the xenophobic Talmud instruct the Jewish people to oppress the GOYAM? Which is very similar to the Koran do. The difference is 1- Jews do not believe in the Talmud or enforce its racist instruction 2- Christianity in general instruct tolerance and love for all. 3- both Christians and Jews do not cut people head off as the Islamist do.

      • Rothbardian Slip

        I’m trying to remember the names of the Muslims who burned the witches in Salem. Was it the Massachusetts Muslims? Also, I see that NO Christians ever call for “death to drug dealers”. That would be purely a Muslim position as well.

        • Lorin Chane Partain

          again ad hominem fallacies. Shall we discuss the record of pagans and atheists in this regard as well. It is really irrelevant to the issue.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Atheists and pagans were not mentioned in the article. I’m sure pagans have murdered a few. You’ll need to educate me on when organized atheism had it’s crusades. Please leave governments out of it. Substituting political murder for organized atheism won’t work. Also, are you claiming the Salem Witch Trials are a “fallacy”? I’m hoping I misread your comment but it’s hard to tell what the superstitious will believe.

          • Trutherator

            Substituting political murder for organized Christian apostasy won’t work. The namesake of your user-ID recognized that Christians were often stronger defenders of freedom and the NAP than atheists. The witch trials were also instigated by one or two people’s greed and coveting and were stopped immediately by the returning pastor.

            Using the behavior of people who act like there is no God to give account to, cannot be used to say there is no God to give account to.

            The weakness of those Christians and their gullibility and their DISOBEDIENCE to warnings in the Bible against false witness, THAT was the cause of the witch-burning. Witches who became Christians have denounced the episode as another atrocity of witches.

            This article and its cheerleaders show that very same false witness now.

            Yet Christians were the ones throughout history that were considered so dangerous that they had to be annihilated. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim il Sung, Mao, Voltaire’s “enlightened” disciples, the Romans…Who only wanted them to shut up.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Murray did not discriminate on the basis of religion. His followers come from all walks. Walter Block is a self professed atheist. I doubt you’ll find a stronger defender of the NAP anywhere.

          • Trutherator

            Walter Block’s writings were where I learned that I was an “anarcho-capitalist”.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            that’s safe to say, except in the ten commandments. “Thou Shalt Not Kill” and “Thou Shalt Not Steal.”

          • Rothbardian Slip

            You lost me. Rothbard preached the Non Aggression Principle. Killing and stealing are forbidden in that philosophy. I’m not sure where our disagreement is?

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            No disagreement on the NAP, only on maybe it’s source. It comes from God.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Someone commenting brought me back here and I re-read your post. I believe you’ve unwittingly agreed with me here. Obviously I’ve never claimed that “god’s teachings” are bad. I’ve claimed that misguided religious fanatics, whether they be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or any other religious sect, are bad. I think that was the same point the author of this article was trying to make. At least that’s how I read it. Obviously, I don’t see you as some kind of dangerous religious fanatic even though I believe you are deeply religious. The whole point is religious fanaticism can be dangerous no matter the religion of the fanatic.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Someone commenting brought me back here and I re-read your post. I believe you’ve unwittingly agreed with me here. Obviously I’ve never claimed that “god’s teachings” are bad. I’ve claimed that misguided religious fanatics, whether they be Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or any other religious sect, are bad. I think that was the same point the author of this article was trying to make. At least that’s how I read it. Obviously, I don’t see you as some kind of dangerous religious fanatic even though I believe you are deeply religious. The whole point is religious fanaticism can be dangerous no matter the religion of the fanatic.

          • The problem is shown here in the title of the post on this blog is “The Problem Isn’t Islam … It’s ALL Religious Fundamentalism”, and the content reflects the ignorance in the title.

            The author quotes a “religion historian”, who the quotes show is an ignorant “historian” who does not know enough history to comment on this. For example, in the birthing years of Islam the wars of conquest were anything BUT “defensive”, whereas both Christ the founder of Christianity and his followers in the first three centuries laid down their own lives for the unbeliever. Later on, starting with Mohammed, Muslims laid down the lives of infidels to subjugate the surviving victims.

            The Amish, fundamentalists by any definition, are as much a problem as ISIS? Really? Who do you think you’re kidding?

            Regardless of what the Koran says, most Muslims are as peaceful as Christians, according to a Lebanese Christian interviewed today on Christian radio, who also said that most Muslims there are sick and tired of the bad guys. I once worked with a Lebanese Muslim and we were best of friends, and shared our faith with each other totally.

            BUT Christians are marginalized, vilified and the present culture in the US and around the world is much more hostile to Christianity than Christians are to others. Most of the time when you might read that “violence broke out” between Christians and Muslims in someplace like Nigeria, the backstory is that Muslims attacked Christians.

            It is more like a few manipulating powerful influences who want to set the two “religions” at each other.

            An example of how the group of atheists that proselytize militantly (like the author of both the book and this blog did here) is more dangerous than the people he’s criticizing, is the danger exemplified in the way most of the statist media cartel treated the massacre at Utoya Island in Norway in 2011, when Anders Breivik killed some 88 young folks in cold blood.

            In the first day of the story, for many hours (I kept checking back) CNN ran the story headline on the bottom of the screen, blaming the killer as a “fundamentalist Christian”. However the story had ALREADY broken that the guy called himself an ATHEIST defending the European Christian CULTURE.

            So now CNN was calling a guy “fundamentalist” simply because they saw his first comments lamenting the loss of Christian culture, and more important for them, he did something bad.

            Who needs a Janet Napolitano bad-guy list when we have sources like CNN and this blog doing her tyrannical dirty work for her?

            The problem is fundamentalist atheism supplemented with a dose of Pavlov conditioning against anything “Christian”. Christians are very unholy sometimes, and the wars are evil, but this is not Christianity, And those wars have nothing to do with “fundamentalism”. The problem is the LOSS of “fundamentalism”, because the most basic Christian fundamental is the BIble, the Word of God.

            Scofield, along with Darby in England, HATED the Bible and started Christians on the road to ruin and apostasy with the diabolical doctrine of “dispensations”.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            After I posted I thought about what your response would be. I had a clue although I wasn’t entirely accurate. I think the author’s mistake, as well as my own, is using the term fundamentalist when he really means extremist. I think non religious people, like myself, think of those words as being interchangable. Many extremists, in the past have identified themselves as fundementalists, so we naturally think extreamist when we hear that term. We don’t really think about the people who self-identify as fundementalists and promote peace. You people never make the news. I actually thought it was strange that you called yourself a fundimentist. To me, it was almost like a Muslim calling himself a terrorist. I think I understand a little about you and wouldn’t dream of calling you an extremist but the two terms, for non-Christians, are somewhat interchangeable. You did catch me off guard with the term “fundimentist atheism”. I don’t quite get what that is. I don’t believe there is a higher power with all of my being and have absolutely no doubt that I am correct. Does that make me a fundimentist atheist?

          • First, I appreciate the open-minded readiness to discuss the ideas without the usual crowd’s one-up.
            Note the subtle Newspeak thoughtcrime push using the two terms: “using the term fundamentalist when he really means extremist”. And the phrase “ALL religious fanaticism”. As you probably know, Newspeak was the 1984 Orwellian Big-Brother idea to change the serfs’ thinking by narrowing their language.

            In sum, the three terms (1) fundamentalism, (2) extremism, and (3) unjustified violence (violations of NAP), are three very different concepts with some overlap but with great differences. And that makes all the difference.

            The explanation is further expanded on my blog:

          • Trutherator

            “Atheists and pagans were not mentioned in the article” because the article was a deflection away from the harm that fanatical dogmas of some atheists have, like the fanatical dogmatic irrational hate for Christ and the Bible. The easiest arguments, and intellectually lazy arguments, for such dogmas are the ad hominems that use the actions of hypocrites like the Pharisees and Inquisitors whose actions are condemned by Christ and Christianity and by the Tanukh itself.

            The hate that the Inquisitors themselves showed for the Bible, its followers and its translators, all that brutal abuse, is the ideological twin of the same manifestation among many both leftist and libertarian atheists.

            Thank God that the foremost standard bearer of anarcho-capitalism, Murray Rothbard, and his most recognized disciple and successor today, Walter Block, do not have this emotional baggage.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            I don’t hate Christ or Christians. I don’t believe any of my atheist friends do either. We look at Christ as we see the tooth fairy and all religion as superstition without basis in fact. Hate never comes into play. I have seen these idiot atheists who try to get legislation passed banning prayer or religious sayings like “in god we trust” banned but I have no respect for such actions. I don’t support intolerance by atheists any more than intolerance by Christians. My only gripe with Christians is their constant calls for war. It seems you read much of what I read so I’m sure you’re familiar with the writings of Lawrence Vance. He is a Christian I would love to call a friend. He spends quite a bit of energy writing about Christians I wouldn’t want to meet.

          • Trutherator

            I spend a LOT of my time also writing about the Christian warmongers and going over and over the way the BIBLE condemns such doctrine and practice. I have theological differences with Lawrence Vance but we both oppose coercion to enforce doctrinal conformity.

            My beef with the article is that it used this word “fundamentalists” in a way that said my strong belief in Bible “fundamentals” were like Islamist beheadings.

            Another beef that provoked the reactions you see here is the historical ignorance shown by the deluded idea that the Inquisition and crusades and other abuses committed by “Christian-identity thieves” were was somehow Biblical and completely omitted the much longer historical list of Bible-based opponents of slavery, gladiator spectacles, violence, coercion of any kind, abuse, and the long list of historical contributions to freedom, science, technology, and trade by Christians living out Biblical principles and based on them.

            The writer did not even make a feeble attempt at any disclaimer cause like you have now revealed. (Yes we’ve done some simultaneous posts apparently, and I have yet to read another I think. It will sort out.)

          • Rothbardian Slip

            I’m happy that we agree on much. I’ll look forward to learning about more of your views in the future.

          • Trutherator

            Me too. We apparently do agree on the minimum rules for living in peace with each other. I would love to share my faith without somebody thinking about the heretics and blasphemers that use the name of Christ for evil.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            well said.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            Christ, unlike the tooth fairy, has been recorded in many papyrus writings found by archeologists. There are more historical copies of documentation about Christ then about George Washington. Hardly comparable to the tooth fairy.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Were there more writings about George Washington than the tooth fairy? Who’s been around longer? I would say there have been more writings about Santa Claus than George Bush. That doesn’t make Santa more real no matter how many kids believe in him. Btw. I wish I didn’t believe in George Bush.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            I did not say there were mere “writings” but i said that there were recordings. In other words accepted historical documents. No one disputes the historicity of these documents except those who don’t know better.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            You saying that Atheists such as Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Kim Jong Un and the like have not murdered anyone? To excuse them because they were heads of state does not work. Atheism is part and parcel of their entire political philosophy. Cant have any gods before the state and all that. So it is not merely political murder, when Atheism is an important aspect of the politic.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            my point however is that it is irrelevant, because to go there is an ad hominem. I know plenty of Atheists who are non-violent of course, as well as religious people. The question of the behavior of some adherents is not central to wether a worldview is inherently violent in it’s teaching and ideas or not. You have to examine the ideas themselves. People may or may not be following their own philosophies consistently.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Everyone I know is nonviolent. Most of the people I know are atheists. I know a few Christians and fewer Jews. I know no government employees by choice. I don’t trust those people.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            can’t blame you, I don’t trust them either.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            I also would recommend following trutherator on here. He and I disagree about the existence of a god but he is truly a good person with good ideas. I’m an atheist and I follow him even though he generally presents his arguments from a Christian perspective. I’m sure a Christian would find even more common ground.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            This may surprise you but I am a libertarian because of my Christian faith, not in spite of it.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Ah, but religion has been used to rally the masses into a murderous frenzy by government after government. Witness our own dear leaders rallying the people against the Muslim boogymen. By claiming the “enemy” to be heathens, governments have been able to dehumanize their victims and gain support from the tax victims they rule. I’ve never heard of an atheist crusade. I’ve heard my government try to dehumanize other tax jurisdictions by saying they’re atheists or that they suppress religion. I’ve seen no evidence of it being true. Governments realize that battling people’s superstition is a war they won’t win. They may take an official stance against religion but they rarely enforce their rules. They kill for government power, not to eradicate superstitious beliefs. It is merely political murder. Sorry.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            I agree that it has been used, but that is the key word. The question however is that a proper usage of said religion, and I am open to the idea that it might be in the case of one religion and perhaps not for another.

        • Trutherator

          We all know that the witch burning in Salem was instigated by motivations of greed, NO BIblical reasons, when the people were led astray by DISOBEDIENCE to the Bible that had infiltrated the congregation. Defectors from witchcraft to Christ have blown the whistle, that the instigators were themselves witches. The congregation was obviously WEAK in Biblical and spiritual strength as the Bible itself condemns such gullibility.

          And when the good pastor of that flock returned from England he immediately rebuked the entire group and put the LOVE OF THE BIBLE and the GOD OF LOVE back in charge.

          On the other hand the Pilgrims that first arrived had excellent relations with the pagan Indians, they shared their harvest with them as we know. Those were the ones strongest in the Bible.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            We don’t all know that. I would venture to say that the only people who “know” that would be those who have learned their history from Christian apologists. The overwhelming consensus says the burning of witches in Salem was caused by Christian fanaticism, superstition and fear. A simple google search reveals article after article backing my claim. For example;


            While I am forever suspicious of history because of it being written “by the victors”, in this case the victors were the witch hunters, not the witches.

          • Trutherator

            Rothbard was upset by this fanatical attempt by many atheists among libertarians to condemn Christians. It was the nonreligious Rothbard who acknowledged that “the greatest and most creative minds in the history of mankind have been deeply and profoundly religious, most of them Christian.” And that includes the ones who have been at the vanguard of liberty. It was the demand of Christians like Patrick Henry and Gouvernor Morris, for example, who made the Bill of Rights the price for passing the Constitution, and many Christians still protested that having any mention or even Constitution was dangerous for religious and political freedoms.

            Again, it has been BIBLE-believing and BIBLE-practicing Christians who have been the most abused victims of “Christian fanatics” and warmongers. Such ad hominem arguments against the BIBLE are because they are the only weapons of an intellectually bankrupt ideology and ignorance of history.

            Officially atheist tyrannies have used the same arguments to commit the worst abuses against the Bible’s believers.

            It shows an abysmal intellectual laziness in particular to say that all “religious” beliefs are equal. Equating the self-mutilation of Baal’s prophets, the infant sacrifice of Molech, the human sacrifices of the Aztecs and Mayans and the Druids, the burial alive of widows with their husband (“sati”), to say these things are equivalent to William Wilberforce’s untiring war against slavery, Mother Theresa’s caring for the discarded dying of Calcutta’s streets, Dr. Livingston’s loving care of Africans and scathing rebukes of slavers, the life-risking Underground Railroad activity of Christians who were also persecuted by the “Christian” [sic] defenders of slavery, is an exercise in self-contradictory logic.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            When you say “non-religious”, you mean atheist. While I have no doubt that there are many good Christians, many great Muslims, numerous horrible atheists, and a few evil Tibetan monks, I also know what will happen if I venture into a discussion in the comments section of an article about how Muslims are doing evil somewhere in the world or how ISIS is about to invade America. The minute I suggest restraint as opposed to total war, I get trolled by self professed Christians calling me a Muslim, secret or otherwise, a liberal, or libtard, and ignorant of politics (in my dreams, I would be ignorant of politics). I have never commented on a site where Muslims go to bash Christians, so I can’t verify their violent tendencies. I can testify to the Christians screaming “Nuke the Middle East!” And claiming that violence is the only language the Muslims understand. If that’s a religion of peace, I’m even happier to be an atheist.

          • Trutherator

            There you go, ignoring the point. You yourself jumped right into the thick here, doing exactly what you are accusing Christians of doing (rightfully) in many of the forums that abound on the Internet. Finally you admit out loud in context there are many good Christians and horrible atheists.

            You would do more service to the goal of a NAP-respecting society if you would learn from your handle’s namesake Rothbard and take people to task that write things like the writer of this blog for joining in the same kind of name-calling and ad hominem pile-on that the article itself condemns.

            The reason is that recognizing that there are so many radically libertarian Christians that they are probably at least half of them by now, when you do come across such anti-Christian and anti-Biblical warmongers you can gently point them to such. Lawrence Vance, Gary North, and hey, Ron Paul. Nobody can impugn Ron Paul’s statement of faith itself, and nobody is a better example of the Christian love of liberty.

            Jesus himself said he came “to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,”, in other words freedom. “Neither do I condemn thee” he told the adulteress. And he told his apostles that in the kingdom of God you didn’t get to be great by being a master over others “as the Gentiles do” but by serving others.

            For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. – Galatians 5:14

          • Rothbardian Slip

            It appears we were responding to each other at the same time. I hope my response below serves as a response here as well.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Sorry, I neglected to mention 1peter 2:18

            18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

            Defenders of slavery.

          • Jacob Eagleshield

            Okay one more time. God is Not a Christian. God is Not a Jew. God is NOT a Muslim. God just IS. Religious people have an agenda. To create God in their image to fit their political thinking. By the way,Jesus was not a Christian either. The first REAL Christian was Paul,when he took the Jesus sect out of Judaism and started preaching to the Gentiles. I do not believe it was ever the intention of the Nazarene to create a religion around himself,but to reform Judaism. All that other stuff happened later. Finally,and this is my belief and mine only, Jesus was a son of God,but not THE son of God. He was ,other than his special insights into the human condition of the times,no more or no less a child of GOD than you are or I am. A lot of wonderful faithful people have done great things. That does not make them deities.

          • Jacob Eagleshield

            Yeah1 That is why Rev. Cotton Mather said that burning Pequot Indians alive in their huts,and scalping Indian children was Gods will.

        • Aasiyah Sattar

          Witches of Salem sounds like you mistaking Mills and Boons or whatever comic book, you seem to indulge in. “You think” , buddy when wasting three lines on a blog with that fictatious crap i urge you to be factual. “Say no to drugs” you proven what the sides effects are. I assure you that your drug dealer just relocated and hasn’t been killed by muslims. Although you have created laughter. #muchappreciated#

          • Rothbardian Slip

            I’ll excuse your not understanding my comment as tongue in cheek and assume English to be your second language. Your reply is nonsensical. I’ll be done making excuses for you after this.

          • Aasiyah Sattar

            Why so much hostility dude? Is it because of the warning you got about me ? I never knew about the excuses come now, let’s be friends. Just because I say things people should hear and not say the things they wana hear, I’m disliked ? I’m sorry I’m not Willy Wonka, I don’t sugar coat shit..defending my religion is what we muslims feel is in our right to protect and I’m hated for it ? Not fair..I’m not superior to anyone else and neither is my religion. My comments are meant to clear all misconceptions about my Islam. But I do trully apologize if I offended you or angered you in anyway, sometimes my hands works faster then my brain.

          • Jacob Eagleshield

            Some people do not like being called “dude” Where I come from a dude is an ignorant jackass. show some respect.

          • Aasiyah Sattar

            Ironically dude seems disrespectful to say to you, but insulting Jimmy Swaggart as a whore monger seems respectful ? As well as calling people stupid ? To me that’s disrespectful and way out of line. I have no idea where you come from, but where I come from calling someone dude is an indication that being formal is no longer needed, and that the conversation is no longer a confrontation but a friendly discussion. I’ve heard people all over the world use that word, everyone in my country uses it, to those they know and those they comfortable enough with, so somewhere somehow the definitions of words in your country show be revised and instead insults and name calling should be banished.
            Then again my reply was not for you why do you feel the need to comment when the conversation did not include you, disregarding the fact that I was apologizing, you found the need to be confrontational.

          • Jacob Eagleshield

            My friend,as a pantheist,(God is in everything and everything is of God) you are wasting you time and you intellect trying to reason with these robots. You cannot cure stupid. I respectfully suggest you stop trying. Remember these are the people of,Pat(gays caused 9/11) Robertson,Jimmy(whoremonger) Swaggertt Jim(the flock fleecer) Bakker Oral(a 900 foot tall Jesus lives on my lawn) Roberts,and Ralph(Jack Abramoff bedfellow) Reed. They would not know of Christian values if it bit them.

          • Rothbardian Slip

            Just so you know, moron, I was sticking up for Islam. Now that I’ve red some of your other replies, I’ll exclude you. You are the one they keep warning us about. Take yourself over to Breitbart. They’ll love you there.

          • Aasiyah Sattar

            No need for the name calling, come on we adults. Now that we’ve discovered that you have no sense of humor, unless its so dry, it just died, let’s examine your comment and find out where did I misinterpret your comment.

            I’m trying to remember the “NAMES OF THE MUSLIMS WHO “BURNED” THE WITCHES IN SALEM.

            Don’t know much about what your perception is on defending in that statement, but to me it clearly state that muslims committed murder. Burning witches alive portraits brutality, unless you do that as a hobby in your spare time.
            Or should I be searching for the invisible ink that has the hahaha in the end.

            Was it the Massachusetts Muslims? Also, I see that NO Christians ever call for “death to drug dealers”. That would be purely a “Muslim position” as well.

            I still don’t see the love there. Labeling us muslims as killers is probably your way of befriending. Not judging at all. I would hate for anyone to call you to defend them in any situation, or better yet be their alibi. Maybe you right, english is my second language, or maybe you have no idea what the definition of having to defend means. But hey I’m glad I’m famous whoo hoo, but “warned” is a strong word, I’m harmless.

      • Lorin Chane Partain

        The Talmud is not considered “God’s Word” by anyone, it is the writings and teachings of Jewish Rabbi’s. It is accepted as the writings of men, not God’s.

    • Trutherator

      As also Christian AND anarcho-capitalist, here’s the link to my reply to the ignorance in both the article and the atheist militancy at the official government organ NPR:

      Their ignorance is obvious when you remember that the worst crimes they say the Bible is guilty of were committed by secular authorities with clerical robes that BANNED the Bible and executed the people that read it and tried to eliminate those who dared translate it (Gunpowder Plot, for example, plot of Jesuits)

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      On the one hand Muhammed calls on Muslims to violence merely for an unwillingness to convert , doesn’t even make sense , who’s unwillingness to convert? Really ? Where did you read that? Quranic verse or hadeeth or something you just thought up because you couldn’t find anything else that would emphasise on your hatred towards Islam ? Firstly the person who wrote the article gets zero out of 10 for spelling. You are informing people or comparing religion, and no where in your research have you come across the correct spelling of Quraan ? Come on at least get the spelling write, I know you so anxious to create more hatred but really ? You know what I found the most annoying on these Islamophobic websites ? How everyone is overly excited to compare their hatred to the last comment that posted, so they see who can create the worst crap about Islam. Then I come along reading the article, and I wonder if people sat and read what the write before posting. When their ignorance is proven to be just a “bitch fit” that has no factual evidence, they get defensive and mockery and the vulgar words emerges to cover up the extent for how illiterate they truly are about Islam and the Quraan, and all the toys gets thrown out of the cot. But me on the other hand refuses to look like a fool so I research, I find out and I educate myself incase a debate arises and I look like an arse. Guess not everyone is blessed with common sense. Conversation goes extinct and time is wasted.
      Secondly labeling the prophet a child molester seems to be the only come back non-muslims seem to have against him,becomes monotonous after a while, but they dont realise that the Islam is the only religion that prohibits marriage to a minor. Yet incest is allowed in America. Ironic.

      Quraan :

      24|59|And when the children among you come to puberty, then let them (also) ask for permission, as those senior to them (in age). Thus Allah makes clear His Ayat (Commandments and legal obligations) for you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

      In the United States they allow 13yr,14yr,15yr old’s to get married. Since you comparing the bible to the Quraan, let’s talk about Mary (RA) mother of Jesus, who in Islam and is stated in the Quraan as one of the most prominent women to have walked this earth. She was married to Joseph the carpenter who was 90 years old and she was 12 years old (Mathew). You have to understand there’s nothing wrong in that, in different times different concepts and different places, women mature differently. It wasn’t until 1905 when the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the prophet started becoming an issue, because times started to change and the rate of puberty and maturity in young girls began to slow down. You seem to forget that the bible speaks of the prophet Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 concubines.

      You label my Quraan and prophet as violent but let’s look at one part of bible
      and various other verses, which displays not violence but pornography at its worst.
      Does kids actually read this ? How do explain such a verse to a inquisitive 8 year old ?

      Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end.
      The “history” has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduce their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father’s “seed.” “Seed” figures very prominently in this “Holy Book”: forty seven times in the little booklet of Genesis alone!
      Out of this another incestuous relationship come the “Ammonites” and the “Moabites,” for whom the God of Israel was supposed to have had a special compassion. Later on in the Bible we learn that the Jews are ordered by the same compassionate God to slaughter the Philistines mercilessly – men, women and children. Even trees and animals are not to be spared, but the Amonites and the Moabites are not to be “distressed” or “meddled” with because they are the seed of Lot! (Deuteronomy 2:19)

      Do still want to compare ?

      We believe that the prophet Mohamed(saw) is a servant and a messanger, just like the prophets before him. He had brought down the final revelation, the emphasis we have on the final messenger is the same emphasis we have on all the prophets that was sent unto mankind. The christians overlook the prophets before Jesus. Never has the prophet Mohamed displayed violence or resort to violence in his years of prophethood. I get that you refuse to believe that Quraan is the final testament but going as low as belittling and labeling and creating your own version of Islam, just to vent is retarded.
      Your statements and knowledge about the prophet seems much too empty to debate with as non of your comments actually seemed believable. Calling of violence by the prophet to his followers seems like the only thing you chose to repeat ,childish to even utter, you can do the math. Defending christianity by trashing Islam doesn’t seem like very God fearing christian thing to do, no matter what the religion consists of, lying about it just to justify your bible is infact a sin. Third commandment I think “thou shall not lie” ? So let’s stop preaching and comparing the Bible to Quraan which is incompatible because trust me, that’s one debate you will surely lose. Not a ego thing, just confident. The best part is, I won’t have to discredit your bible, have the worst name calling for your prophets and trash your religion when doing it, as you have done to mine.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      If you are anti abortion yet pro death penalty,you are pro birth not pro life,and therefore a hypocrite to the highest degree.

    • PinxEngrayz

      Jesus. A fundie and a libertarian? You must be a ton of fun at parties — and may I presume that you would celebrate the suffering of the “takers”? Guessing so.

      Libertarianism and Christianity are intellectually incompatible. If you claim both, you are neither.

    • BigSkyCity

      Your ignorance of Islam is staggering. Educate yourself (from legitimate sources, not what some online lunatic and/or profiteer is selling you) and then come back to the discussion.

      • Lorin Chane Partain

        instead of calling people ignorant, why don’t you enlighten us all with your brilliance. 😉

      • Lorin Chane Partain

        exactly what level of knowledge qualifies you to declare someone else ignorant? Are you a mind reader? You call others ignorant yet display it in spades.

    • Anthony Hope Marris

      Lots of words, very little information.

      “El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism.”

      Sooooo… No. Your premise is faulty, therefore I reject your argument.

      • Lorin Chane Partain

        “legal warfare” see this is the difference between Christianity and Islam. Christianity does not qualify the commandment “Thou Shalt not Murder.” Islam does. So if an Imam make a declaration of Jihad, hey then that makes it legal right? So kill away, cause I said it was ok. Nice religion there.

        • Anthony Hope Marris

          You are clearly missing the point. What you’re talking about is nothing but interpretation.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            that point of interpretation can mean the difference between life and death. I think I understand the point quite clearly.

          • Anthony Hope Marris

            That’s true, but what I’m saying is that there is nothing inherent in either religion that makes one objectively more or less violent. Clearly you’re aware of the violence in the Bible, but that doesn’t mean you subscribe to that particular part of the scripture. Presumably, you interpret the Bible in precisely the same way Muslims interpret the Qur’an. The fact that more Muslims are becoming radicalized today proves nothing about the religion itself. There are too many other factors at play to say that Islam is inherently more violent, which seems to be what you’re saying. If that’s not what you’re saying, then I apologize.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            yes their is. Their founders. Compare Jesus to Mohamed. That is the inherent difference, and that was my point.

          • Anthony Hope Marris

            How can I possibly do that? Did you personally know either of those guys? The historical record doesn’t support the scriptural accounts of either of them very well at all, so by appealing to their qualities as people is nothing but wild speculation. Regardless of the differences there may have been between them, what matters today is how people put their teachings into action. Moreover, regardless of what scripture says, most Muslims today would disagree strongly with your both your assertion that if “an Imam make(s) a declaration of Jihad, hey then that makes it legal,” and with your characterization of Mohammed as a violent figure.

          • Lorin Chane Partain

            obviously personal interviews will be impossible, although in Jesus case that might be possible in the future. 😉 However I was referring to the historical accounts. I think those are sufficient to draw some conclusions.

    • Walter Bernhard

      Atheism has not killed more people than any other. That would be Communism. Get your definitions straight before you spout off nonsense. It’s also worth noting that Deuteronomy calls for apostate Hebrews to be out to death, which means that your god and his prophets did indeed call for murder.

      • every single communist leader who killed people was also an atheist.

      • When God calls for death it is not murder. People die everyday to say that God is a murder is not not understand the definition of murder. Murder is the unauthorized act of aggression by one or more humans that results in a human death. God is the Creator. The giver of life and the taker of life. Life is His to give and to take away. By definition God cannot murder anyone. To say so it nonsense. It has always been understood that life is God’s to give and take. That is part and parcel of what being the Creator of everything entails.
        To that I would add that the verse your citing is not even anywhere near the concept of murder. Rather what is happening there, and in most of the OT, is God passing judgement on people, which as the Creator He has the right to do, and authorizing some other to implement his death sentence upon them.
        If a man in a court is convicted of a crime and given the death penalty under the law, is the executioner a murderer? No, he is legally authorized to implement the judgment upon the person who is judged to deserve death.
        There is no difference in principle between that, and what is happening in Deut. 13:7-12 A judgement of death has been given, and the executioners have been authorized to carry out the judgement. It’s a very serious thing, but it is not murder, not by any stretch of the imagination.

        • Walter Bernhard

          So if god, or a voice you interpret to be god’s, tells you to bash your neighbors face in, it’s not murder? That’s interesting.

          First you said, “Calling for death for merely disagreeing about religious views is calling for murder. Calling for death because of previous crimes of violence is capital punishment.”

          Well, here’s a verse condemning people to death for changing their religious views. Now you’re trying to tell me that since god created all life, he can do whatever he wants with it and it’s still moral. I suppose that view accounts for the popularity of Inquisitions and witch hunts back when Christians were still in power.

          “every single communist leader who killed people was also an atheist.”

          Nice red herring. Most of the Nazis were Christians. Were you trying to make a point?

          • Ask Bonhoeffer if the Nazi’s were Christians, oh you can’t because they executed him. That’s right. Second of all I did not claim that I could justify my acts by claiming that God told me to do it. I claimed that the events in the Old Testament were in fact God’s judgement and that the account is historical.
            In no way did I extrapolate from that somehow anyone can make such claims and commit violence and justify it by such claims. That was a moment in history, that is all.
            You are the one who made the extrapolation. This is a classic straw man fallacy, it’s a twist of logic. Nice try, better luck next time.

          • Walter Bernhard

            I don’t suppose it’s occurred to you that different sects of Christians have been accusing each other of not being True Christians(TM) since at least the second or first century. Of course Bonhoeffer would say they weren’t Christians; I doubt he wanted to be associated with them. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Third Reich had the support of almost every Christian church in Germany, both Protestant and Catholic.

            I wasn’t straw-manning your position. I was simply taking your view to one of its logical outcomes. After all, mustn’t god be obeyed? So if the voice of “God” told you to kill someone, would you do it? According to you, god could set an orphanage on fire and it would be moral, so it’s not like you’d be doing anything wrong. And I notice that you have nothing further to say about communism, so perhaps you’ve finally set your definitions straight.

          • Not only has it occurred to me Jesus Himself said as much. “You will know them by their fruits.” So the idea that not everyone who claims to follow Christ is actually doing so is a fact and foretold by Christ Himself.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So if you can acknowledge that Christianity and Nazism are not interchangeable, you should be capable of admitting the same of atheism and communism.

          • theoretically, however the historical fact is that all communists are/were atheists, to the man. Not all atheists are communists however, that much I will admit, but the reverse is not true. So what I said is not inaccurate.

          • Walter Bernhard

            And yet you framed in way that would imply that atheism was somehow culpable, despite the fact that it’s hard to get class struggle and Marxist economics out of “a disbelief in gods”. Also, you’ve stated a falsehood in your last post. There have been religious communists in the past. Google is your friend.

          • i think your making my point for me. All those communists are also atheists. The two are inseparable. You want to place blame at one without blaming the other, but they can’t be separated out like that so easily. Religious Marxists? I know of none that were in a position to do harm, they were all atheists and they were all murderers. To say that it is only marxism that is to blame and not also atheist is to be involved in some kind of duality that doesn’t exist. It’s a blot on atheist history, just admit to it. I freely admit that not all of Christian history is tarnish free, you should be able to do the same. Or is your philosophy so weak that it can’t withstand the scrutiny?

          • Walter Bernhard

            So religious communist are still atheists… because you say so? Thanks for proving your dishonesty and hypocrisy.

            It’s not blot. Atheism is not a philosophy or an ideology, although it can be incorporated by other philosophies and ideologies, such as Marxism, in the same way that Christianity is incorporated by the Ku Klux Klan. it is a disbelief in gods. That’s it. If you want, you can build up any kind of ideology on top of that, but that doesn’t mean that the end results are an inevitable result of atheism. And atheists are not the ones who claim to have a perfect moral code given to them by the creator of the universe himself. It’s makes sense for humans to screw up or latch onto ridiculous ideas like communism, but for the self-proclaimed “chosen ones” to commit mass murder and genocide, why, it’s incredible.

          • we could go round and round. Your saying they are atheist because they are statists, I say they are statists because they are atheists. Chicken and egg. Truth is the two are so intertwined as to be inseparable. The logical conclusion of getting rid of God is to replace Him with man. Man’s ultimate form of authority is the state, this then become the logical conclusion of atheism. Wether any given atheist goes down that road towards totalitarianism is irrelevant. This is a logical argument, not a historical one.

          • Walter Bernhard

            The only one going around d here is you. Your pathetic insistence on a Catch 22 where Christians can commit as many atrocities and create as many oppressive regimes as they want without it ever reflecting poorly on their underlying philosophy is pitiful. Never mind the fact that your religions morality is utterly totalitarian in every respect, while atheism is merely a disbelief in gods. And no, man’s ultimate authority is not always the state. As Nietzsche pointed out, it could just as easily be oneself. But, why bother with logic when you can jump to the unsupported conclusion that absent gods, people simply must serve the Stare as a replacement instead of thinking for themselves. Thanks for the remarkably moronic screenshots, and welcome to Dumb Comment Hell.

          • followers of Jesus don’t commit atrocities, that is the whole point. You want to lay blame at people who did things, because they cloaked themselves in the credibility of Christ, but their judgement is coming. It suits your agenda to agree that this people were in fact Christ followers, but neither you nor I get to decide that. Christ will judge them, and He has already indicated how He will do so by saying “You will know them by their fruits.”

            Second of all as to your accusation that Christianity is authoritarian. There is no authority apart from God’s authority. The Creator is the ultimate authority, so the very idea is counter to the very essence of Christianity. It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation came out of the Christian West, and thereby the Enlightenment. The entire system of liberty is something that the Apostle Paul talks about in his letters. It is not an accident that the Middle Ages birthed Capitalism, and the beginnings of science. These things are the direct result of Christian underpinnings. Basic precepts such as “No Murder” and “No Theft” are the basis of the very idea of liberty.

            You have been indoctrinated into a worldview and you can see nothing else. However men like Sir Isaac Newton engaged in science because of their faith not inspire of it. Men like Ron Paul are libertarians because of their faith, not inspire of it. Men like James J. Hill build Empires without the state handouts and interventions because of their faith, not in spite of it.

            As for Nietzche, he made it very clear that if Atheism is true then there is no basis for moral behavior there is only one will versus another will. The will to power. Those willing to do what it takes to control others will do so, and we will have the ultimate outcome of atheism, the authoritarian state. It is inevitable, and there is nothing immoral or moral about it since there is no basis for morality. He was right about his conclusion, but his premise is wrong. God is alive, and there is a real objective morality. That is why Nazism is evil, and would be evil even if it had conquered the entire world.

            I suggest you try again, you talking points are not impressive.

          • Walter Bernhard

            No True Scotsman Fallacy. If someone truly believes in and worships Jesus, then they’re a Christian. Period. So unless you can prove that every single Christian in history who did something that might be damaging to your cult’s reputation was only pretending to be a Christian, you’re just another dishonest Fundy trying to whitewash history.

            More nonsense. Your religion boils down to a cosmic dictator proclaiming, “do what I say, or I’ll hurt you”. And your imbecilic deflection reminds me of a Chinese communist I once saw defending Mao’s cultural revolution. Here, let’s remix it; there is no authority apart from Dear Leader’s authority, therefore Dear Leader is not an authoritarian. And by the way, the Enlightenment was the result of liberal Christians and Deists recognizing the fact that organized religion is toxic to liberty, which is why Thomas Jefferson put forth the concept of separation of church and state. Neither Protestants nor Catholics recognized anybody else’s right to speak or worship freely, which resulted in several nasty religious wars and an influx of refugees into the New World.


            You’re one to talk about indoctrination, what with the talk of liberty, when your god condoned slavery and genocide in the Old Testament. I pointed out a verse to you earlier, involving the murder of Hebrew apostates, and I don’t recall you having anything to say about that. Talk to me about indoctrination when you aren’t still shackled to a failed doomsday cult*.

            I haven’t read Will ton power yet, but if it was written in the last decade of his life or posthumously, then I doubt it reflects Nietzsche’s actual views. But, once again, it’s funny how you describe will to power and the authoritarian state as if this has not been the inevitable outcome of Christian governance since the fourth century. Every time Christians have set themselves in to power, persecution and oppression have been the results, which prompted our Founders to buck the trend by establishing this country as a Constitutional republic with a secular, nondenominational constitution. This is why I’m glad that people like you don’t control the government. You claimed that I’m too indoctrinated to see anything outside of my worldview, but as usual, you speak out of ignorance. I happily admit that atheists can be selfish assholes, but I don’t try to set them up one magical pedestal like you do with your fellow cultists. You don’t want to admit that Christians are fallible and corruptible by power, so you commit the NTS fallacy, because it’s easier to invoke a dishonest Catch 22 than it is for you to admit that you don’t have a magical moral code that automatically makes you better than everyone else. It is this blindness that has contributed to countless atrocities in the past, and it will continue until admit their imperfections. But, by all means, keep denying that Christians who tarnish Christianity’s rep are Real True Christians(TM); it’s no skin off of my ass.

            Oh, now you’re talking about impressive talking points, after making the unsupported bare assertion that your god is the ultimate source of authority and morality…

            …when there isn’t even proof of his existence, and he is a jealous, selfish, genocidal pro-slavery lunatic. Yeah, really freaking impressive, man.

          • you are not the judge of who is and who is not a Christian. Christ is. Jesus defines what Christianity is and is not, not you. A Scotsman is a Scotsman by birth, that is how it is defined, but a Christian is defined by Christ and no one else. For example mere belief is irrelevant. Jesus said that the demons believe, and temple. Are demons Christians now because they believe? You don’t even have the first clue of the subject matter which you are criticizing. Jesus said “You will know them by their fruits.” He also said that in the judgement there will be men who will cry “Lord Lord, we did many great deeds in your name” and he will say He never knew them and cast them out. You are not the decider of what constitutes Christianity and what does not. It is the height of arrogance to think that you do, since you don’t even understand the fundamentals of the faith your criticizing. I would suggest that you get a decent grasp on the subject before you decide that you have any ability whatsoever to comment on it, because right now you don’t.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “you are not the judge of who is and who is not a Christian. Christ is. Jesus defines what Christianity is and is not, not you.”

            So when did he abdicate his position as arbiter of Christianity and pass it on to you? Because if he didn’t, then you’re in no position to say historical figures are not Christians because they committed crimes. I don’t recall any verses where Jesus says that any Christian who sins is no longer a Christian.

            “You don’t even have the first clue of the subject matter which you are criticizing.”

            So says the man who denies the pro-slavery stance of his god. And by the way, I define your religion the same way the dictionary does; a belief that Jesus was God incarnate, performed miracles, was crucified for our sins and then rose from the grave three days later to signify his defeat of death, based upon the four gospels and other NT documents. If a person believes that Jesus is their savior, and that their faith in him will lead them to heaven after death, then they meet the requirements thereof, and saying that they aren’t if they do something that damages Christianity’s reputation is a blatant NTS fallacy. You can argue that there are good Christians and bad Christians, or misguided Christians, but by your own admission, you can’t disown anyone as a Christian unless they make it plain that they don’t have any faith in Jesus.

          • I am in a position to re-state what Christ Himself has stated since we have it recorded. It is not the same thing to claim that I am making judgements as to who is a Christian and who is not, when all I am doing is repeating what Christ has said. Are you really that dishonest to suggest that Christ’s statements are my own? They are not and I have not claimed that they are, I am merely re-stating them. Please stop the non-sequiturs.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Non-sequiters? Sounds like you have me mixed up with yourself. I have asked you to provide a metric by which you can judge a person to be either a true or false Christian, and you’ve come back with is that verse about good and evil fruit, which is too vague to be of any real use in this matter. This has been my drift all along, that there is no way to truly evaluate a person’s faith unless you can read their mind. So by what objective standard does someone like Torquemada fail the true Christian test?

          • the meter you are looking for is Christ’s definition. Study it to understand it.

          • Christ does not suggest that it is necessary to read someone’s mind, He is quite clear that someone’s deeds is how you will determine who they are. That is what fruit means. If you had done some study of His other teachings you would realize that is the meaning of the word “fruit”. It is demonstrated in his parables and other places. It is not vague at all. “You will know them by their fruits.” is plainly “You will know them by their deeds” and in fact that is exactly how it is translated in some translations. Precisely to avoid confusion by those who don’t bother to study further.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So how many evil deeds does someone have to commit before you can say, “that guy’s definitely not a True Christian”? What magnitude of evil are we talking here? What if the person is insane?

            “He is quite clear that someone’s deeds is how you will determine who
            they are. That is what fruit means. If you had done some study of His
            other teachings you would realize that is the meaning of the word
            “fruit”. It is demonstrated in his parables and other places. It is not
            vague at all.”

            That’s all a crock of shit. If it isn’t vague, then why haven’t you answered or at least addressed the questions in my previous comments? And if he explains it other passages and parables, where are your scripture references?

          • again I don’t set the standard, I am not the one involved in trying to figure out who is a Christian and who is not here, you are. Jesus will make that judgment on the day of Judgement, not me or you. Your job and mine is to follow him and watch our own lives, not to be concerned about everyone else, but remain concerned for ourselves.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So in other words, you have nothing but a subjective personal standard that cannot be properly defined, and is therefore useless.

          • it would only be subjective if Jesus was merely a man like us. Since Jesus is God, the Creator of the Universe, His standard become quite objective in short order.

          • Walter Bernhard

            I’ve already proven that he was a false god by failing the prophecy he made concerning his return. That was another point that you never addressed. Checkmate.

          • you have proven nothing. To ask for proof and then claim to offer proof is dis-engenous. There is no such thing as proof except in mathematics my friend. You should know this. What I have offered is no claim of proof but a claim of evidence. You overstate your case and prove your dishonesty. Proofs are for math, not a discussion of this nature. To claim so is either ignorant or dishonest, which one are you?

          • Walter Bernhard

            I have asked you for a discernible standard of Christian conduct, and you have failed utterly to provide one. You’ve done a fine job of repeating tired talking points, but you have actually provided the metric? No. So once again, it is you who is being disingenuous here. Thanks for avoiding my points and conceding the debate yet again. You are a truly amusing specimen of delusion.

          • I have given you one. Jesus. That’s it. There is no other standard. You want to know what that means, the text is there for you to access just like everyone else. It’s not really that hard to grasp, billions already have.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “It’s not really that hard to grasp, billions already have.”

            Correction; billions of gullible people have been tricked by Christian liars. Not quite the same as grasping a standard that you are incapable of presenting. And most of these billions belonged to different sects and formed radically different standards for “True Christians”, so once again you fail.

          • your just a troll who doesn’t really want to take an answer for what it is but just wants to keep on trolling. I am done with you. Your the typical online know it all who doesn’t have a clue, but you sure think you do. Good bye.

          • Walter Bernhard

            An accusation of trolling, coming from the guy who supports slavery, and refuses to address counter-arguments? Oh, the irony.

            “Your the typical online know it all who doesn’t have a clue, but you sure think you do.”

            This, from the guy whose ignorance of history, science, and ethics has been firmly established in every comment in this thread. Oh, the irony. And since you never presented me with an objective standard for Christian behavior, I’ll do it for you so we can both move on.

            “Real True Christians– “A Real True Christian” is a Christian that has not yet been caught lying, stealing, cheating on his spouse, engaging in gay sex, bedding with prostitutes, molesting children, bearing false witness, swearing, being publicly intoxicated, smoking weed or any other multitude of “sins” that the Real True Christian had formerly been accusing others of committing. After being exposed, the offending individual becomes a “Not A Real True Christian”.”


            School’s out, class dismissed.

          • you clearly have drank the cool aid, and if you think the God is pro-slavery or genocidal or is about punishment, you clearly do not have the first clue of the subject matter that you claim to understand well enough to criticize. I call bullshit on your intellectual dishonesty. I can smell it even over this internet connection.
            Your typical of these online know it all atheists. I have known atheists, real and actually smart ones, and its your sort that give them a bad name. Some of them actually know what they are talking about, you don’t. Nor are you honest enough to do the hard work that it would take to understand your subject well enough to make an honest critique. Your just a know it all putz like a thousand others, that has a internet connection. The first thing that you need to change is your attitude, and I don’t have high hopes. My suggestion to you is stop reading everyone who agrees with you, and start reading everyone who doesn’t. Then if your feeble mind can withstand the onslaught, which I doubt it can, then you will be able to intelligently speak on this subject. Until then your just another wanna be Anthony Flew.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Oh right, your god is totally not pro-slavery. Clearly, the Kool-Aid is just making hallucinate the following verses;

            “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)”

            “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
            (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)”

            Whoa, you could sell your daughter off to be a sex slave back then? Now that’s what I call “family values”.

            “When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)”

            “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)”

            “Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)”

            Yep, totally not pro-slavery.

            “…if you think God is genocidal or about punishment…”

            “Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)”

            Summary execution for questioning authority. I never thought I’d see a Libertarian defending that sort of them.

            Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)”

            Well, he certainly isn’t about punishment.

            “If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)”

            “Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)”

            And no god who murders an entire generation because he intentionally hardened a man’s heart is genocidal or crazy.

            “And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)”

            Now, what were you saying about “intellectual dishonesty” and “bullshit”, bullshitter? And the rest of your comment is advice that you would do well to follow yourself, so you don’t come across as a complete moron the next time you find yourself arguing over these matters.

          • “Thou Shalt Not Steal” That is the most anti-slavery statement ever stated. It is not God’s fault that man cannot properly understand it as such.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So even after I post multiple verses where your god not only condones slavery, but also beating slaves and commanding slaves to obey their masters, this is what you come back with.

            And you called ME a bullshitter? How ironic.

          • if you don’t understand the difference between voluntary slavery and involuntary slavery then I don’t even know where to begin with you. There is no contradiction because these are two separate issues. The verses that tell slaves to obey their masters and masters to rule easily over their slaves is dealing with voluntary servitude which was quite common in the ancient world. People would often sell themselves into slavery to avoid starvation. Involuntary slavery, the kind which became common under Islam and later under Colonialism is strictly forbidden by the simple commandment “Thou Shalt Not Steal.” I really didn’t think I needed to spell this out for you, but apparently I do.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “if you don’t understand the difference between voluntary slavery and
            involuntary slavery then I don’t even know where to begin with you.”

            Excuse me? “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the
            foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of
            such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your
            land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your
            children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like
            this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated
            this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)”

            Funny, the verse doesn’t seem to say anything about the children of foreigners volunteering to be slaves. And the verse about selling your daughters says nothing about asking their permission first.

            “Involuntary slavery, the kind which became common under Islam and later
            under Colonialism is strictly forbidden by the simple commandment “Thou
            Shalt Not Steal.” I really didn’t think I needed to spell this out for
            you, but apparently I do.”

            Despite the fact that the bible clearly condones enslaving children for life, which, by its very nature, cannot be voluntary. Nice try, Lorin.

          • in the ancient world people would often sell themselves and their children in order to prevent starvation for they knew that as a slave they would be clothed and fed and sheltered.

            Yes, if a person puts himself up for sale as a slave, the scripture allowed the Jews in the old testament to buy a slave. So what?

            Voluntary slavery was commonplace and that is precisely what is being referred to here.

            As far as children are concerned if you were a parent and you were so poor that your child faced starvation, and you knew that if you sold them into slavery that they would be fed and clothed and housed you would do it or see your child starve to death.

            Your so smug you have no sense of the real choices that ancient people’s had to make to survive. In our post Industrial revolution world people have no idea of the crushing and pervasive poverty that existed in ancient times and throughout most of human history. 90%+ of people are poor, most of those extremely so. The level of wealth we see today simply never existed prior to the 19th century.

            Now how just would the scripture be that did not allow people to make this choice for themselves? Sorry Mom, you can’t sell your son to save his life and yours, you both have to die.

            Your “morality” is bankrupt, it is phony and nothing by comparison to what the scripture is allowing here. It is giving desperate people a choice, a hard choice, but a choice in order that they might survive in difficult circumstances. You would prefer that people starve to death I assume.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “So what?”

            Children cannot reasonably consent to slavery for life anymore than they can consent to sexual activity. Its funny to see how you desperately try to defend barbaric Iron Age behavior that’s condoned by your holy book.

            “As far as children are concerned if you were a parent and you were so
            poor that your child faced starvation, and you knew that if you sold
            them into slavery that they would be fed and clothed and housed you
            would do it or see your child starve to death.”

            So this, then, is your god’s morality. Rather than urge the Hebrews to adopt foreign children and raise them as their own, he writes a law to enslave them as pieces of property for life. My, how benevolent.

            “Your so smug you have no sense of the real choices that ancient people’s had to make to survive.”

            Because charity wasn’t an option in the ancient world? You are being absurd.

            “Your “morality” is bankrupt, it is phony and nothing by comparison to
            what the scripture is allowing here. It is giving desperate people a
            choice, a hard choice, but a choice in order that they might survive in
            difficult circumstances. You would prefer that people starve to death I

            Actually, it is your own morality that is phony and bankrupt. Your morality consists entirely of picking and choosing the parts of an ancient compilation of fairy tales that you like, while ignoring the rest. The bible clearly says that witches are to be killed, yet I don’t see any witch hunts here in the U.S. going after Wiccans or Satanists, even though many Christians believe that the official Church of Satan is a front for human sacrifice on a national scale. Then there’s the fact that your fellow Christians have no problem justifying their opposition to gay marriage by quoting old testament verses, but never quote the verses that condemn eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics.

            My morality would be to adopt a child under such circumstances, or at least care for it until I found a fit guardian, not to relegate it to the life of a pack animal. But, I guess your god wasn’t big on charity back then.

          • Children do not need to consent, that’s what parents are for. Parents make these choices for their children and rightly so. As a father I make choices for my children everyday that they cannot make for themselves. This is right and proper. Try again.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So parents can “rightly” choose to sell their children into slavery? Thanks for proving that biblical morality is barbaric and obsolete. By the way, you should seek mental help.

          • who else would have the right to do so? Who the hell do you think you are? Your so high and mighty and you call me a fundamentalist? You think you know better then a parent what should be done to save their children’s life? You obviously have never faced that situation. If you want to let your child starve to death then go ahead, but until you are face with a starving child don’t preach about the superiority of your morality to me. And yes, I do have the right to sell my children into slavery if it meant saving their lives, and yes I would do that if the alternative was death. Your nothing but a pious prick who thinks he knows whats best for everyone while taking the moral high ground. You think so much of yourself you would let children starve. Sorry, but your morality does not impress, in fact it is bankrupt. The real moral solution in those circumstances is to allow parents to choose. It’s called liberty, maybe you should try it. The Bible, for all of your disdain, actually supports it here and you don’t.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “who else would have the right to do so?”

            What the fuck is wrong with you? Gee, how about nobody? Maybe civilized people should be smart enough to realize that slavery is inherently dehumanizing, and reject it. Did you ever consider that?

            “Who the hell do you think you are?”

            Someone who does not believe in discredited fairy tales. Someone who does not shackle himself to the barbaric beliefs of Iron Age savages. Someone who doesn’t revise history for a religious or political agenda.

            “Your so high and mighty and you call me a fundamentalist?”

            You described yourself as a Libertarian and a fundamentalist in an old comment. Don’t label yourself if you don’t like the label.

            “You think you know better then a parent what should be done to save their children’s life?”

            If a parent abuses their kids, it doesn’t take a Nobel Prize winner to know that something is wrong. Only a sick fuck would sell their children into slavery. The fact that you don’t seem to have any moral qualms with this concept is highly disturbing.

            “You obviously have never faced that situation. If you want to let your
            child starve to death then go ahead, but until you are face with a
            starving child don’t preach about the superiority of your morality to

            Oh, so selling them into the living death of slavery is better than starvation? Hey, maybe humanity should recognize the fact that slavery is insane and put a stop to it instead of prolonging it. But of course, that didn’t occur to you. You have some serious mental issues.

            “Your nothing but a pious prick who thinks he knows whats best for
            everyone while taking the moral high ground. You think so much of
            yourself you would let children starve.”

            I never said that i know what’s best for everyone, idiot. Stop trying to avoid the fact that your putrescent “holy” book supports slavery, and clearly so do you. And people generally buy children for one purpose; sex. So please, tell me more about how slavery is moral under certain circumstances.

            “Sorry, but your morality does not impress, in fact it is bankrupt.”

            This from the guy who supports slavery. And who is too cowardly to address the various points I made about Christian morality in my last comment.

            “The real moral solution in those circumstances is to allow parents to choose. It’s called liberty, maybe you should try it.”

            Great idea. Lets grant parents the right to legally sell their children to the child molester down the street so that they can support their crack habit. In fact, why not abolish the police while we’re at it? I’m sure that would greatly increase everyone’s “liberty”.

            “The Bible, for all of your disdain, actually supports it here and you don’t.”

            “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” –1984

            Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Lorin.

          • are you even listening? Is your head so far up your ass that you can’t even read? WTF does dehumanizing mean anyway? Dehumanizing? WTF is that shit? You want children to starve to death, is that dehumanizing? You would rather that children starve to death then to have their dignity slighted? Really? WOW, your sick. And it’s not your call. Thankfully we don’t live in a world where there is much need for parents to sell their children to prevent their starvation, but if we did I am glad that parents have the right to make such choices and that your not the Csar over the rest of us. Your just a self righteous tyrant lecturing the rest of us about your superiority. It’s laughable.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “are you even listening? Is your head so far up your ass that you can’t even read?”

            Why yes, as a matter of fact, I can.

            “you clearly have drank the cool aid, and if you think the God is pro-slavery…”

            Then i posted scripture supporting slavery, which prompted you to respond with a non-sequitur. And now that you have finally accepted the fact that your bible supports enslaving people against their will, you’re trying to excuse this by creating a false dilemma and pretending that the choice for all foreigners was to either let their children starve, or sell them into slavery. Amount of evidence for this claim so far; none. So tell me again who has their head stuck up their ass, Mr. Slavery Apologist. Read your fucking bible once in a while so you’re not getting lessons on it from an atheist.

            “WTF does dehumanizing mean anyway? Dehumanizing? WTF is that shit?”

            Are you really this retarded? Slaves are not humans with equal rights, dumbass. They are property, and their masters can rape, beat, or starve them with no legal repercussions. Do you even know what slavery is, or are you merely playing dumb?

            “You would rather that children starve to death then to have their dignity slighted?”

            Because a life of forced servitude, with a high probability of rape and other forms of abuse, is no more serious than having your dignity slighted. You are truly sick and twisted. And nowhere does your bible say that people only sold slaves to the Hebrews to avoid starvation, so once again, you are changing the subject to cover up your own warped “morality”. Try again.

            “…but if we did I am glad that parents have the right to make such choices and that your not the Csar over the rest of us.”

            Because only a tyrant would deny losers like you the right to enslave children. You know, you should totally hang out with the Catholics. I’m sure that pedophiliac priests would have a lot of common ground with your views. Maybe once society crashes, you can even sell your children to them.

          • Atheism, consistently applied leads to totalitarianism. There must always be something to replace God, for the Atheist the authority lost is replaced with the state. This is the inevitable result. This is why I reject both atheism and the state. I do not bow to idols, the state, nor any mere man.

          • Atheism, consistently applied leads to totalitarianism. There must always be something to replace God, for the Atheist the authority lost is replaced with the state. This is the inevitable result. This is why I reject both atheism and the state. I do not bow to idols, the state, nor any mere man.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Thank you for confirming my initial suspicions regarding your intellectual integrity. The fact if the matter is, if atheism always led to totalitarianism, then all atheists would be totalitarian. Yet they’re not. But of course, you must protect your hypocritical double standard at all cost. When Christians spend over a thousand years raping, butchering and torturing millions for imaginary cri.ed like witchcraft, or for praying to the wrong gods, it doesn’t reflect poorly on their underlying beliefs at all. But even one atheist does something similar, then totalitarianism simply must be the inevitable outcome of atheism, even though one would have to a moron to genuinely believe that. Modern Christian ethics in a nutshell; no matter what, your shit never stinks, ever, but everybody else’s stinks ten times worse.

          • not all atheists become totalitarians because some put more weight behind other things and so don’t take their atheism to it’s logical conclusion. I did not say that atheism would result in all atheist being totalitarians, I said that “leads” to totalitarianism. Human action being what it is, it does not follow that every atheist will in fact follow their convictions to their logical conclusions, but many do. That however does not mean that the logical end of atheism is not statist, it is.

          • Walter Bernhard

            And once again, you have proven your hypocrisy. How is totalitarianism the logical conclusion of atheism. Where in a disbelief of gods does one find a commandment to serve the State with of your being? The honest answer, of course, is nowhere. Atheism can be used as a building block for all kinds of different ideas, from secular humanism to communism. But it is not an ideology in and of itself, and only a liar or a fool would insist otherwise. And if statism were the only logical conclusion, you would have provided evidence by now instead of just repeating yourself like a broken record. It’s funny how fundamentalists always resort to slander instead of being honest.

          • How? Neitzche explained it quite well I think. If there is no God there is no basis for morality and all we are left with is man’s will versus other men’s will. The one’s who have the will to power over others will do so, and in time we will wind up with the totalitarian state. It is neither moral nor immoral since there is no such thing. You need to catch up this was explained a long time ago.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Whereas under your dogma, we are left with an insane and sociopathic god who once wiped out all life on a whim, and occasionally orders his followers to murder anyone whom doesn’t return his “love”. And let’s not forget the love necessary to make it an unforgivable crime not to worship him and grovel at his feet, and create a place of eternal torture for these. But, I’m getting ahead of myself. If there is not a divine, ultimate source of authority, then it is up to humanity to use their minds, abandon the stupid and counter-productive concept of faith, and formulate their own moral codes. Considering the slavery, genocide, and tyranny spawned by your cult and it’s sister, Islam, I doubt mankind is worse off this way.

          • on a whim? The OT records that the wickedness of man in the days of Noah was such that it grieved God to a great degree. Human sacrifice, sex with the dead, all sorts of pagan ritualistic violence and immorality. To say that it was on a whim is to show your arrogance, and your ignorance of the subject. God’s judgement was not a whim, it was righteous.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So everyone on earth was wicked except for one man… because an ancient mythological text says so. Yeah, I guess whoever wrote Genesis never heard of the Law of Probability

          • you claim it is mythological because of your bias. Prove it is a myth. Is it so hard to believe that the Creator of the entire Universe can flood one small rock that rotates around just one star? Or separate water so people can walk across a sea? Even Antony Flew admitted that it is impossible for life to come from lifelessness and so became a deist. Is it such a leap to think that if God can do that impossible thing that He can’t do others? Once you admit that God is there all sorts of impossibilities become possible. Probability has nothing to do with it.

          • Walter Bernhard

            My rejection of your myth has nothing to finding bias and everything to do with the overwhelming lack of evidence. There is no evidence of a global flood anywhere in the geologic record, and if such a thing had occurred in the last five to four thousand years (as Young Earth Creationists claim), then all of the ancient civilizations would hhave been wiped out. Yet, this is clearly not what happened.

            “Once you admit God is there all sorts of impossibilities become possible. Probability has nothing to do with it.”

            In other words, theism is magical thinking that hides behind unfalsifiable claims. I’m not sure which part of that is meant to sound appealing.

          • the texts themselves are one kind of evidence. Archeology provides another. The internal consistencies of the story are another evidence. Third party accounts and corroboration is another. Then of course there are the logical arguments as well. Teleological and Deductive. It’s one thing to say there is no proof, but to say there is no evidence is nonsense. The evidence is plain. This is an old, tired and uninformed argument that there is no evidence. A truly informed atheist like Flew would laugh at anyone who said such a thing. He did not find the evidence convincing, but that is another argument. To say it doesn’t exist is to be uninformed.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “the texts themselves are one kind of evidence.”

            Of people recording their myths for posterity, but not of anything else unless you have actual proof.

            “The internal consistencies of the story are another evidence.”

            That you’ve been huffing glue? Internal consistency simply means that the author carefully thought out the chain of events in his fictional story. If internal consistency alone was evidence, then why aren’t you arguing for the supernatural events in the Iliad and the Odyssey? Or a Stephen King novel?

            “Archeology provides another.”

            [Citation needed].

            “Third party accounts and corroboration is another.”

            [Citation needed].

            “The evidence is plain.”

            Indeed it is. Since none of Earth’s ancient civilizations were wiped out by a global flood, and there is no evidence of such a flood anywhere in the fossil record, there never was a global flood and an only an idiot would believe in such an absurd myth. And referencing Anthony Flew over and over does not make up for the complete absence of logic and evidence in your comments, or your failure to address my points.

          • You may claim they are myths, and if all there were was the texts you might have a point, but there is other things besides the texts themselves, not proof, which only exists in mathematics, but evidence. Which is why I mentioned the other items as well.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Mentioned them, or made them up? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you’ve presented none.

          • It is a matter of opinion what is extraordinary or not. That you want to place a demand upon the evidence is your choice, but by no means is reality bound by your preferences. The evidence that exists is what is. You can claim that it is not extraordinary enough, but that is merely your preference and not a valid claim.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Once again, you exhibit the delusional thinking that goes hand in hand with fundamentalism. I have already debunked your flood myth, and have you responded to even one of the points I raised? No. I don’t even know why you’re still posting here when you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to say.

          • you have debunked nothing. I am not obligated to debate you point for point, I actually have a life. Use Google if your truly interested, of course your not, because all of your objections have been raised before and answered many times over hundreds of years. This is an old and tired subject. I don’t have time to school you.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “you have debunked nothing.”

            Says the one too afraid to even address my points.

            “I am not obligated to debate you point for point, I actually have a life.”

            Weak. Have you really sunk so far as to resort to cheap cop-outs? Thanks for conceding the debate.

            “Use Google if your truly interested, of course your not, because all of
            your objections have been raised before and answered many times over
            hundreds of years. This is an old and tired subject. I don’t have time
            to school you.”

            Oh yeah, I should just google up some Christian propaganda sites that rely on empty platitudes and logical fallacies. Been there, done that. And frankly, after destroying every claim you’ve made here, I find it amusing that you still think you could “school” me. Come back when you are ready to debate like an adult, and not an ignorant, spoiled child.

          • I am not your mommy. Go look up a few things.

          • Walter Bernhard

            I should certainly hope that a creature like you isn’t in any way related to me. And I have already looked up various Christian apologetics. In fact, I was doing that years ago. But, being too cowardly and delusional to either back up your claims or openly concede defeat, I suppose weak attempts at trolling are the only thing you’re good for. Thanks for proving me right yet again.

          • Internal consitency is an evidence precisely because the Bible is not one book by one author like the Quran. It is actually a collection of books written over a very long period of time by many different people from all walks of life. That such a collection has such a tremendous amount of consistency is an evidence of it’s accuracy.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Actually, there is contradiction in the bible. Two different creation accounts and Samuel’s continuity errors concerning David and Saul*. Not to mention the gospel authors giving us four completely different versions of the empty tomb story, with completely different characters. Now, where’s your evidence for a global flood? Or are you finally abandoning that ridiculous story?


          • There are in fact copy errors and the like that are the natural result of texts that have been passed down and copied over thousands of years. I concede that. However there is no substantive contradictions that are an issue of theological, moral or philosophical importance.

            You want to evidence for a global flood? Haven’t you found seashell fossils in the mountains? It’s quite common actually.

          • Walter Bernhard

            So four completely different accounts of the same event doesn’t seem out of place to you? Interesting.

            You obviously know nothing about geology or paleontology. Funny how all the people who believe in the flood share that trait. Get back to me once you’ve studied the Geologic Time Scale.

          • Geologic time scale is a theory, not a fact. You can look at layers of rock and see that they are in layers, that is a fact, but the idea that the sediment deposited there over millions of years is a theory. It seems I am more familiar with it then you are.

            Also there are not four completely different account of the same event. Please enlighten me with the four passages that describe four completely different events. I would be very interested to look that up.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “Geologic time scale is a theory, not a fact.”

            Did you actually take science in high school? This is the stupidest thing you’ve said yet. Go read a paleontology textbook and get back to me.

            “You can look at layers of rock and see that they are in layers, that is
            a fact, but the idea that the sediment deposited there over millions of
            years is a theory.”

            Wring. Isotopic dating has confirmed the age of the earth, and something tells me that you don’t know how scientists use the word “theory”.

            “It seems I am more familiar with it then you are.”

            I’m afraid you’ll have to do more than regurgitate ignorant creationist jargon in order to prove that.

            Why don’t you go read the chapters of all four gospels dealing with the empty tomb? I’m tired of doing all the work for someone who thinks he just avoid my more pertinent points.

          • Calling people stupid is not an argument, it’s a sign that your argument is failing. I have read plenty of geology in HS and college. The facts and the theories are quite distinct, that you can’t separate them is your failing, not mine. I will restate it for you to hopefully retain it this time. The layering of the soil and geology is a plain fact, how it got that way is a theory. Always will be a theory, never going to be anything other then a theory. Science is never settled, or else it ceased to be science and it becomes dogma. You should appreciate that. But your pseudo-science has become dogma and now your attached to it and defending it like it’s some kind of logical deduction. It is not, science is always changing when new information comes to light. It has always done so and will continue to, that’s what science is. To keep theory separate from fact is a crucial skill you evidently lack. I am sorry to have to school you.

          • Walter Bernhard

            “Calling people stupid is not an argument, it’s a sign that your argument is failing.”

            What I actually said: ‘This is the stupidest thing you’ve said yet. Go read a paleontology textbook and get back to me.’

            Nice try, Lorin. And maybe you shouldn’t talk about failing arguments when you have failed to address my points against a flood, and failed to provide any evidence for it after claiming it was a true story.

            “The facts and the theories are quite distinct, that you can’t separate them is your failing, not mine.”

            Since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, the only failure is yours, just like your failure to address my points or present evidence.

            “The layering of the soil and geology is a plain fact, how it got that
            way is a theory. Always will be a theory, never going to be anything
            other then a theory,”

            Nope. Geologists can tell how something was deposited by examining the consistency of the rock and using chemical analysis. And a theory is an explanation that is supported by many facts, and that can be used to make accurate predictions. So even if the manner is which various sediments was deposited was a theory, it would still be supported by thousands of facts, whereas your flood myth is roundly debunked by the facts. And if you are right, why are humans only found in the very topmost layers of the fossil record? Why aren’t we finding all current life forms preserved in the Triassic or Cambrian or Archean layers? The answer, of course, is that you’re not right. But I doubt you’ll ever be capable of admitting that.

            And the rest of your comment, especially this ironic gem, “To keep theory separate from fact is a crucial skill you evidently lack,” is basically an admission of stupidity on your part. You clearly neither know nor understand anything related to geology and paleontology, but like all creationists, are still arrogant and deluded enough to believe that you know more abut this than the entire scientific community.

            “I am sorry to have to school you.”

            You couldn’t possibly school anyone with an I.Q. above the single digits. One has to actually know what they’re talking about before they can school.

          • That is a distinction without a difference.

          • Walter Bernhard

            And an yet another set of points you’re dodging. Where is the fossil evidence that supports a young earth perspective? Where are the human remains that we should be finding in every single section and layer of the strata?

          • your response confirms for me your intellectual honesty since you seem bent on burning down straw men argument instead of the statement I actually made.

          • Walter Bernhard

            How clever of you to steal my opener without actually demonstrating any strawmen on my part.

          • I think your fully aware of the straw man you built. I won’t waste my time pointing out to you what you are already fully aware of.

          • Walter Bernhard

            Nice deflection.

  • J_Bookly

    I’m on the floor behind the sofa, hiding from the deadly flying Bible verses. Typing is difficult down here, so I will be brief. IMO the reason fundamentalism is wrong is not because it ignores, misunderstands or violates one or more verses of one or more scriptures of one or more religions. It is wrong because it is a black and white view of our colorful world. It is wrong because it is accompanied by a hard heart and a closed mind. It is wrong because it nurtures poor quality thinking, which produces poor judgement, which produces really dumb actions. Ooops, a vengeful quote landed too close to my computer. Gotta go. Thank you for listening.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Well,my friend,that is what happens when people try to recreate God in THEIR image,for profit.and to control others. Free will is a gift from the Creator. Fundamentalists would have us relenquish that and turn or will and our lives over to a Preacher!

  • gdod25

    Is Lew Rockwell a God hater? This article was posted on his site.

  • UnreconstructedRebel

    This article was written by either a liar or a lunatic. In either case, it falls far short of standards for lewrockwell and never should have been posted on the site. God commanded the Israelites to annihilate the Caanatites (and yes that meant genocide), because of centuries of outrageous acts of rebellion against Him, including ritual child sacrifice to Molech.; As a Christian, I fully endorse and support the OT genocide so ordered. The question could be asked, why did God tolerate their iniquity for so long? On the other hand, Christianity prohibits any kind of offensive violence and killing and anyone who does so is disobedient to Christ. The name the Norwegian mass shooter and the nazis as Christian killers is both fatuous and dishonest. This article should be purged from lewrockwell

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Don’t know which bible you read,but it is full of violent acts. Why do so many of your born again “preachers” (i use quotes because most are just personality cults) quote Old Testament almost exclusively? Because the teaching of the Nazarene of love,forgiveness,tolerance,and charity,don’t fit with their Christo facist agenda of fall and redemption,and controlling people through guilt tripping them.(We are born bad,they say,and must spend a lifetime trying to redeem ourselves)I have yet to meet a fundamentalist Christian who was not a narrow minded,tunnel visioned,hate mongering bigot.

      • UnreconstructedRebel

        I don’t know which parallel universe you live in, but the “born again preachers” in this one do not match your spurious description. For one thing, there is relatively little preaching today from the OT in today’s seeker sensitive, made for TV megachurches. Secondly, one of the defining features of fundamentalist is that we do NOT believe that man can or must “spend a lifetime trying to redeem ourselves”. These days, hate mongering bigots are far more likely to be found amongst femi-nazi, enviro-fanatics and homo-fascists who’s doctrine preaches tolerance for everything except disagreement. You clearly have zero understanding or comprehension of Christian fundamentalists and your comment proves it.

  • Penn Amos

    Really, Washington’s Blog? My comments have been deleted along with wwr’s?

    • WashingtonsBlog

      We haven’t deleted any of your or wwr’s comments. Perhaps Disqus did?

  • ShoutsAtTV

    Oh, yeah. Y’all got them Baptists and Presbyterians running amok. Killing and raping everything in sight. Catholics crucifying everybody. And Lutherans, man importing all those poor people from central America just to shoot folks in Minnesota. Somethings gotta be done!!

  • Greenbean950

    Early Christianity was not violent. Violence didn’t enter into Christianity until the 4th century and the peace with Constantine. The early Christians and some today still believe that Jesus meant what he taught about nonviolence. It took the state to make those teachings disappear and “justified” violence become acceptable. I recommend “Constantine and the Bishops: The Politics of Intolerance”, By Drake for a very good analysis of this.

  • Rothbardian Slip

    I see a lot of what the author speak about going on now. One religion dehumanizing another in order to justify the killing. It seems to not matter if it’s Muslims against Christians, Christians against Muslims, Muslims against Jews, or Jews against Muslims. They all want to say the other religion is so bad and needs to be eradicated. Then, in their next breath, they talk about how theirs is the religion of love. “Kill him in the name of god.” Evil! Just evil. I would say that eventually they will wipe each other out but they’ve been at it for thousands of years and there’s no end in sight. I posted a quote earlier and was attacked by Christians and called a Muslim and a liberal. Lol. My screen name is ROTHBARDian slip and the quote was from Mencken. These people were actually trying to imply that I was politically ignorant because I wasn’t afraid that Muslims were on the verge of imposing sharia law in the US.

    The quote;
    The truth is that Christian theology, like every other theology, is not only opposed to the scientific spirit; it is also opposed to all other attempts at rational thinking. Not by accident does Genesis 3 make the father of knowledge a serpent — slimy, sneaking and abominable. Since the earliest days the church, as an organization, has thrown itself violently against every effort to liberate the body and mind of man. It has been, at all times and everywhere, the habitual and incorrigible defender of bad governments, bad laws, bad social theories, bad institutions. It was, for centuries, an apologist for slavery, as it was the apologist for the divine right of kings.
    — H L Mencken, Treatise on the Gods

  • Man on the street

    Granted the Old Testament is full of violence. Since the Christians do not reject the OT, then, they must be tainted by that violent Hebrew history. Nevertheless, Catholics, for example hardly talk about the OT.

  • Trutherator

    This article is worse than a cruel slur, since the biggest victims of the abuses of the Roman persecutions, the Inquisitions, Roman Catholic armies. Papal decrees, Muslim fatwas, and holy wars have been BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIANS who have been the ones who paid with their own blood not only in their efforts to share eternal life and love and freedom found in Christ from guilt, sin, death and hell.

    And you forgot to mention that the Popes put the BIBLE as the number one BANNED BOOK. Libraries should be pushing the BIBLE as history’s number one book banned by religious tyrants. John Knox is one who was a priest who first found out there was such a book when he saw it in their banned list.

    From St. Patrick’s “crusade” against Irish and British slavery (“Is it our fault we are born Irish?”), to David Livingston’s and William WIlberforce’s campaigns against slavery, through the Christian abolitionists’ attacks on slavery, Christians have taken the beatings for people like the ones who taught the writer of this historical ignorance.

    I too was deceived by the lies they taught me in the anti-Christian “secular” godless government indoctrination centers K-12 and then Ivy League professors who promoted the ideology of the biggest regimes on the earth of history that said the same things and tried to “cure” their societies and bring freedom FROM religion.

    Beware because when the voracious anti-Christian propagandists take control, the ones in clear and present danger will be the ones closest to their power and ideology. Stalin first had all his Politburo friends murdered, then he went after the fellow socialist Mensheviks and other socialists, and then of course the Christians.

    Like Christ said, what is whispered in secret will be shouted from the rooftops, and nothing and no one can stop the truth, shared with the love of Jesus Christ.

    Look at this great breach of logic. And they say this is “reason”, “enlightenment”??!

    How can anybody say it’s all the same?

    Jesus Christ laid down his OWN life for unbelievers to spread the message of the God of love, Muhammed laid down the life of unbelievers to spread his message of Allah.

    The earliest Christians laid down THEIR OWN lives to spread the gospel of the God of love, while the early followers of Islam laid down the lives of resistors in North Africa and Arabia and Turkey and southern Europe to spread their message.

    Impostors and tyrants and rulers use any excuse they can use to justify power: atheism, the Pharisees with the laws of Moses, the money changers in the Temple, the evil kings of Israel, the wicked priests Ezekiel exposed in Ezekiel 8 that worshipped the sun in secret and kept idols to devils within.

    With Christians came opposition to such tyrants. The Amish and the Puritans simply refused to cooperate with the Anglican mandates. The threat to appoint Anglican bishops over the colonies, known for “drawing-and-quartering” punishments, added fuel to the fire of the American Revolutionary War. Oh yeah, and the greatest scientists of history, including the greatest one, Isaac Newton, a young-Earth creationist.

    Even Charles Darwin, of “The Origin of Species and… the Preservation of Favoured Races”
    who was used to justify eugenics, genocide, and quoted in tomes denouncing Turks and blacks. THe thought charity would result in a weaker species. He gets a lot of the blame for eugenics and genocide of course.

    ANd today’s strongest and loudest anti-slavery crusaders are Christians, and it is Christians who are setting fire to spread the strongest message of freedom today, the anarcho-capitalist message, because THAT is what the Bible teaches, starting from Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself, and Thou Shalt Not Steal, and Neither Do I Condemn Thee.

    And the biggest call against tyranny of all is coming, and Bible-believers have been leading the charge for almost 2,000 years. The Mark of the Beast looks more than ever to be the embedded chip, that will be required by a new tyranny and one-world government. They might not even declare themselves as a government, but it will be required to buy or sell, and “really bad” penalties will apply to the freedom-minded. Many resisters will not be Christians.

    Some of them who are prepared will feed and clothe you when you realize what’s happening. But that’s okay.

    I once believed the lies myself. Welcome to the love of the truth.

    • Scrotie McBoogerballs


    • c a martin

      Thank you, thank you. May the God of all there is keep you in the hollow of his hand.

  • Ed
  • Love… I wish you well. I pray you will find Him. Pray to God that you can see who the hypocrites or satan followers are and not allow them to discombobulate the real truth. Forgive always. Psalm 43

  • Jacob Eagleshield

    Spirituality is a gift from the Creator. Religion is a man made concept,designed entirely by man for the purpose of controlling the actions,deeds,behavior,and thoughts of other men,through shame and guilt.And for some,like the modern day Pharisees of today(Robertson hagee and the rest) to put themselves above others,for self aggrandizement,and the gain of personal wealth.I think that if the Nazerene were on earth today,he would drive these fakers from his presence,as he drove the money changer from Gods house.

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      In one breath you say ” They would not know of Christian values if it bit them.” Agreeing to christianity, and in contradiction to that you post, religion is man made ?
      Realistically speaking, how can you believe in God, yet you deny what he has made lawful and unlawful for you ? In my opinion, yes you believe in higher power, but sin as much as you want because you don’t feel the need to follow religious laws ? If religion did not exist, how would man come to the conclusion that they needed to respect one another ? How would they know that murder, rape and adultery was wrong ?
      To my understanding pantheist believe that God and the Universe are ultimately identical. So you deny the fact that God created the universe and if he didn’t create the universe, who created man ? How would you know that God exist if not it was not revealed to man ? If that was the case the world would be in the same state as when it was created, in turmoil.

  • Love

    Evil doers will use anything that they know that will benefit them, of course. And those deceivers were deceived and instead of trusting in God and praying they, too, become deceivers. If you have never sincerely prayed to God, through Jesus, and nor have you repented, you are distancing yourself from HIm and it will make it harder for you
    to really get to know HIm. Walk the walk. Love and knowledge begins after Jesus, by reading the Bible from there you will find your answers.

  • i.have.rewt

    Article fail. just fail.

    McBoogerBalls.. hilarious name btw. made me lol…still am. However, back to the topic.

    I stopped reading the article after “But they fail to see that the Bible is at least as violent.” (line 2, subtitle in blue under picture not included)

    What nonsense! While the Old testament gives good morals and ethics, it’s full of vengeance and death as Booger says. Compared to the new testament, when Jesus comes to stand as our personal savior and advocate he stresses the greatest command Jesus gives is to love:

    Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)

    36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    McBoogerBalls hit the nail on the head explaining the differences of new vs old testaments.

    I will say this, God’s love has no bounds.

    Even if Hitler himself before his death was full of grief, sorrow, shame, renounced his evil ways and asked Christ into his heart truthfully even he, a master of evil atrocities, could have been saved and he might be heaven. We can’t put God in a box and actually say, even though we passionately and angrily want to denounce Hitler, that God’s grace and forgiveness has bounds.

    Radical right? That’s God’s love through Christ, our advocate.

    Meanwhile, ‘the religion of peace’ has almost 24,000 terrorist attacks in the name of ‘Allah’ since September 11, 2001. For you nut-jobs, this is a direct reference to Islam.

  • PinxEngrayz

    The problem is religion, period. Particularly the three Abrahamic faiths.

  • P. McCoy

    I stand with Gandhi, who admired Christ but loathed Pharasee acting Christians. The worst of the lot being Roman Catholics- after all how can you respect an ideology that would ban books ( put the latter on an Index of forbidden reading)about explicit sexuality or a religion (Protestantism), but never did the same banning to Mein Kampf?

    Oh and all that gold, silver, diamonds ( from Brazil) and wealth from sugar, indigo, cacao eked from the bodies of Black and Indian slaves used to build segregated “blood church buildings” all over in most of Latin America. The hands of Scandinavia and the Eastern Orthodox are clean in this regard.

  • P. McCoy

    We, in the United States, need a modern version of the UK penal laws designed to curtail abuse of religious freedom. I advocate that under penalty of perjury, unless a politician keeps radical right wing political ideologies designed as clever ruses to establish a Christian Taliban in the States, out of his/her functions as a politician or judge etc; that they not be allowed positions of Judges or governance in the United States.

  • doggod

    So, I gather the game here is to come up with the most carefully parsed superstitious bullshit you can think of, right? It’s entertaining, I guess, if you’re five. Meantime, reality slips by unnoticed….

  • Someone

    Both religion suck. Worship a potato for all I care
    Everyone’s arguments is a pissing contests
    None of you can prove anything based off some damn book

    My book says this …..
    But but mine says this!!! …..

    As for spiritual experiences
    Good for you but good luck convincing everyone just off that.

    So do us all a favor
    Keep your god damn religion in your own circle of friends

    Be comfortable with the fact that many people are different than you and stop projecting your insecurities at others.

    As for the title
    The Problem Isn’t Islam … It’s ALL Religious Fundamentalism

    Yes and no
    There’s plenty of people who love this religion just like many others who just go through the motion
    Sorry but most people fit in the casual category just like most people only play halo and candy crush

    What am I? Apatheist

    At the end of the day does it matter what the hell your peers believe in? no
    to many of us are way to concerned with other peoples lives rather fixing their own damn problems.

  • Fabian

    This is stupid on steroids. This fool seems to be arguing that because there are ancient texts describing the ancient Near-Eastern nation of Israel waging war in this brutal fashion, modern Jews and Christians are somehow fundamentalists who are as dangerous as radical Muslims. Idiotic.

  • johnb1945

    I don’t buy this false equivalence. Old testament violence has historical context, Qur’anic Jihad is an eternal compulsion. Biblical Christianity is a religion of faith and grace, god is obeyed because oof grace by faith. Islam is a religion of free will acts of praise, some of which are violent. Where Christianity and Islam resemble each other it is because of doctrine, but the difference is that Biblical Christianity has no codified doctrine – codified doctrine was added by churches, and this lack of biblical doctrine is one reason why so many churches have a different take on the gospel. The Qur’an, by contrast is a codified doctrine itself which is eternal and immutable to its believers. When I look at the 3 Abrahamic faiths it’s almost as if if Christianity took all the gracious elements of Judaism and Islam took all the legalistic and tribal ones then developed them into proselytising beliefs.

  • Walter Stewart

    Attention to the dumbass that wrote this blog. You see Christians follow this guy called Jesus and guess what? He says not to like kill people and stuff like that… But you see this guy called muhammad came along and said killings not only ok but required even tho Jesus taught otherwise which they are both considered prophets but teach different things …

  • Brian Geary

    Well said. The problem with Jewish terrorism is that it is done nefariously; just like with the terrorism in Egypt and elsewhere that this article points out, Jews often disguise themselves as Muslims to commit terrorism. There is a famous photo of a so-called Muslim terrorist with a submachine gun and a mask; he remembered the Islamic garb and mask, but he forgot to remove the star of david from around his neck.

  • Haha

    You guys gotta be more specific when you make a statement as this. Gotta show us where in the Quran it says to kill the unbelievers ? Also cant just give me a quote from the English translation of the Qu’ran, since that the meaning of what god is saying is gone when you make the translation.

  • Haha

    You guys gotta be more specific when you make a statement as this. Gotta show us where in the Quran it says to kill the unbelievers ? Also cant just give me a quote from the English translation of the Qu’ran, since that the meaning of what god is saying is gone when you make the translation.

  • Even the most fundie Christian is moderate compared to a Muslim.

    ISIS is a symptom of something much worse. and not a peep from feminism. Too busy hating men? Islam is the enemy of ALL humanity. We need more civilian journalist to speak write about Islam.

    CLICK HERE and Read Why Political Correctness Combined with Islam Will Destroy the World

  • rational man

    The source or the roots of fundamentalism are derived from religions. Eradicate the source the problem will disappear.

  • Jonathan Hughes

    No. The west has the truth perverting it making them do to others what Jesus would not do. Islam has the perverted one in it defiling minds directly from the Quran. Use KJV Cambridge edition bibles.

  • asdfadsfkd

    Factually, look up the punishment in the legal systems of muslim majority countries and opinion polls about blasphemy and apostasy amongst muslims living in the western world. These are facts on the ground. Historically, these human rights violations have been worse in the history of islam.

    This fact makes islam unique – unlike any other. islam is also a political doctrine not just a religion – since it finds it’s way again in the constitutions of the 40-50 countries in the world. Do you even get the enormity of this? In tens of countries , leaving and criticizing islam is punishable by death.
    Can you grasp it? This is the 21st century.

    you have to question the motives of islam apologetics – muddying the waters by comparing islam with other religions. The behaviour of the western muslims is understandable – they are zombies – brainwashed from the time they are born to parrot islam’s talking points (best religion, fastest growing, will prevail blah blah)

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      You talk of muslim violating human rights being the worst in history ? Where did you get your history information from ?
      In the aftermath of September 11 when President Bush visited the Islamic Center of Washington DC, both to reassure the Muslims in America and to create public awareness against prejudice, he remarked: “The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That’s not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace.” Of course, Bush is, first and foremost, a politician and therefore his remarks should be taken with a grain of salt – actually, a lot of salt.
      The American President was quickly rebuffed even by a number of his compatriots, who vehemently disagreed with the President’s diplomatic stance. “… a large number of foreign policy hawks — some of them with advisory roles in the Bush administration — have joined religious conservatives in taking issue with Bush’s characterizations. … they say the claim is dishonest and destined to fail.” [Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful] A pro-Israel, conservative or neocon, Daniel Pipes, sermonized that since calls for “Death to America” in 1979 in Iran, “… some 600 Americans have been murdered by militant Muslims. And still the U.S. government fails to ‘proclaim militant Islam our strategic enemy’ but instead goes along with blandishments about ‘good Muslims’ and ‘true Islam’ being a religion of peace.”
      In contrast to the above two categories of non-Muslim stance, there are two parallel camps within Muslims. One camp on the fringe has no qualms in taking a public position that Islam enjoins fighting and subduing the non-Muslims, and this is a sublime religious duty. They urge the Muslims to take up a combative struggle – armed if necessary – to resist the evil of the “infidels” (kuffar) and to facilitate Islam’s victory over others. They cite the example of the Prophet as to how under his leadership the world of the unbelievers was subdued.
      Repudiating this group of extremist Muslims, there is the broader Muslim community that finds an echo of their own position in what President Bush said and they would like the world to know that Islam means peace and Islam is peaceful. Period. This group is very much troubled by the hate-mongering and violent posturing of the fringe extremists among Muslims. Thus, they would like to underscore and highlight the essential dimension of Islam, which in their view is peace. The fact of the matter is that in presenting Islam as essentially peaceful or violent, there is a false and an unacceptable reductionism, and trying to cast Islam in such reductionist framework inevitably leads to either misunderstanding or misrepresentation.
      At the center of this , are three aspects: the Qur’an, the life of the Prophet, and the historical experience of Muslims. There is no westenized brainwashed muslims. They may dress modern and act modern, but every muslim believes and prays the same way, Islam is not a religion, its a way of life. There is no parroting like christians in a church on Sunday screaming halalooyaa with hands in the air as the priest preaches, and sin the 6 days of the week. We are not like you, when we lift our hands in prayer 5 times a day, its not a publicity stunt. The truth in the contents of our Quraan, has given us numerous amounts of evidence in our creator , the last prophet and all that is ordained for us and commanded to us, so we do not take it very lightly. We do not parrot things from the Quraan ,we do staunchly believe and trust in it. Please do not misinterpret Islam just because you don’t know about it.
      Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database
      According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%).  These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion.  These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions.
      All killing, fighting, war and even administration of law and order involve some type of violence. However, the “Wild Wild West” did not earn the United States a reputation for violence; the two World Wars – the most violent and the worst killings in human history – did not earn the West in general and Europe in particular a reputation for violence either. The virtual decimation of the Indian people in the United States did not make the country barbaric or uncivilized. The European colonization that ravaged, exploited and dehumanized various parts of Asia and Africa, including the Muslim world, did not make Europe any less civilized. The Spanish Inquisition and the Crusade did not make Christianity violent and barbaric. Even the organized torching of Muslims in India by a Hindu mob does not make Hinduism a burning example of violence and barbarism. Yet, these days there are people who would like to identify Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (saw)as violent or symbol of violence. 

      • asdfadsfkd

        hey thanks for the long reply. i am aware of these assertions which you made. however – my original observation still stands. please re-read.

        the core doctrine of islam (a cult which can transform into a death cult quite often – in current times as well in history right from the origins) which is the problem. Muslims share the same dna as the rest of us. its the belief sytem – islam which is the culprit the problem not the muslims.

        several attempts have been made to reform islam (sufism/ahmadiya/ismalies etc. ) you probably know of this better.

        several religions have been invented because of islam (sikhism/ bahai etc)

        but the core of islam still survives and has made a comeback because of petro dollars and will be in conflict with the rest of the world (not just the western world). look around – in every society for all times , islam has been in conflict with EVERYONE. that should give u a clue.

        until the majority of muslims can see through the quran charade and its scientific inaccuracies , it’s plagiarism of bible and torah – they will continue to conflict with the rest of the world.

        • Aasiyah Sattar

          To me your observations are just opinionated, and personal hatred to muslims and has no hard core evidence or any facts to back up any of your statements.
          Yes Islam is more popular now then it was before the 9/11 attacks but muslims were rather seen then heard or read about.
          Any person with common sense can tell you where there is good there is evil.
          Like satanism being a religion based on everything opposite to christianitiy and the bible so will other man made religions come into play. Islam did not invent other sector’s that wish invent their own religious view using islamic foundations, man took it upon himself to rewrite the religion in a way to suit him, and the way he wishes to live his life rather then obeying God, just as christians did by rewritting the bible over and over, into a oblivion.
          Islam being in conflict with everyone ? I suggest you go back to learning your history. Just a few examples to educate you :
          The Muslims who saved Jews from the Holocaust
          By Tom Bousfield and Catrin Nye
          BBC Asian Network
          17 April 2013 Last updated at 09:52
          The Bosnian Hardaga family helped shelter a family of Jews
          A new exhibition aims to celebrate the role Muslims played in saving Jewish lives during the Holocaust.
          The Righteous Muslim Exhibition is being launched at the Board of Deputies of British Jews in Bloomsbury, central London.
          Photographs of 70 Muslims who sheltered Jews during World War II will be displayed alongside stories detailing their acts of heroism.
          Conflict ???
          Europe: Sicily
          The Emirate of Sicily, located in the south of Italy, was a part of the larger Islamic Empire from the ninth to the eleventh centuries, under a variety of rulers. Under Muslim administration, Sicily flourished: its population doubled, people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds co-existed harmoniously, agriculture prospered, exports increased, and irrigation systems improve.
          PUBLISHED BY ADMIN ON DECEMBER 15, 2013 3:48 PM

          One last example :
          Harvard Law School, one of the most prestigious institutions of its kind in the world, has posted a verse of the Holy Quraan at the entrance of its faculty library, describing the verse as one of the greatest expressions of justice in history.
          Verse 135 of Surah Al Nisa (The Women) has been posted at a wall facing the faculty’s main entrance, dedicated to the best phrases articulating justice:
          “O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted”

          So where you read or observed Islamic conflict is baffling other then what we’ve experienced since 9/11. Even with just that attacks on Americans, how did it land up being a religious war , when muslim men were suspected, and then killed. How did the muslims around the world get involved in those terrorism attacks when we weren’t even part of it ? Please do provide your proof on how inaccurate is the scientific verses of the Quraan.
          You call Islam a cult just because??
          You say Islam is in conflict with the rest of the world, let me give you evidence that proves otherwise.

          According to the FBI, anti-Islamic incidents were the second least reported hate crimes prior to 9/11, but following 9/11, they became the second highest reported among religion-bias incidents. From pre-9/11 to post-9/11, a growth of 1600% took place.
          According to the LACCHR’S 2003 report, many immigrant groups including Asians, Middle Easterners and Latinos, are likely to under-report hate crimes against muslims for several cultural reasons, such as reluctance to contact authorities, lack of familiarity with hate crime laws, etc.
          As of January 2002, the Intergroup Clearinghouse reports that there have been more than 1,700 cases of discrimination against Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, Sikh Americans, and South Asian Americans.

          The United States has spent over $990 Billion Dollars on the “war” with Iraq. This is enough to wipe out world poverty for 10 years.”
          (There is no muslim army which has been assembled to evade another country or continent)
          Muslims don’t create war but war has been created to destroy muslims, where are the U.S. armies today ? Still looking for weapons of mass bullshit ?
          A murder is committed in the U.S. every 23 minutes, or about 22,852 murders each year, but terrorist attacked are more widely spoken about.
          If New Orleans were a country, its gun homicide rate would rank second highest in the world.”

          I don’t think you know anything about Islam the history of its origin or about my prophet since all you’ve said is heresay. I’ve given you factual evidence, written proof and not something I sucked out of my arse. I urge you to do the same. But before I end my comment, here’s what few well known writters who actually took the time researching and studying has to say about my religion.

          Rev. Bosworth Smith, Mohammed and Mohammadanism, London 1874, p. 92:
          “He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope’s pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.”
          Annie Besant, The Life and Teachings of Muhammad, Madras 1932, p. 4:
          “It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher.”

          James A. Michener, ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion’ in Reader’s Digest (American Edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70:
          “Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.
          “Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: “There is one God.”
          “In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God’s personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human-being.’
          “At Muhammad’s own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever.'”
          Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc. 1978, p. 33:
          “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
          Sarojini Naidu, the famous Indian poetess says – S. Naidu, Ideals of Islam, Speeches and Writings, Madaras, 1918
          “It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’… “

          • asdfadsfkd

            i don’t have any hatred of muslims. Talk to some of the ex-muslims – they are a growing community and if you ask around you will find them. May you find your peace. I repeat – it is not the muslims. but the core doctrine of islam (sharia + quran + sunnah) which are incompatible with the modern morality.

            if it helps u understand better – watch the movie planet of the apes. now think – that is how islam spread.

  • John

    The problem is not ONLY religious fundamentalism. The problem is also nationalism, imperialism, patriotism, racism and bigotry. There are millions of atheist warmongers throughout the world who don’t care one bit about truth, peace, justice and humanity, just like there are millions of religious Christians, Jews, Muslims and others who don’t care one bit about truth, justice, peace and humanity. So the real underlying problem of human beings is hypocrisy, selfishness, arrogance and immorality.

  • Lynn Walker

    This title is so absurdly stupid that I can only compare it to this type of statement: “The problem isn’t the mainstream media, all news reporting is a lie intended to control your mind”.

    This article concludes with a broad, yet unsupported statement by one individual, attempting to condemn all religious fundamentalists as “spiritually immature”.

    The correct assertion would be: any form of false religion is dangerous to the individual and society, but THE REAL TEACHINGS OF GOD will always be FUNDAMENTAL. Men (at war with God), will always “develop” the teachings into their full maturity as a false religion bearing no pertinence to the original teachings.

    Secularists are always looking for ways to slander the whole with the offenses of some. They have no intellectual integrity or interest in separating the real from the false and reporting the truth.

    Still, they are on the right track with regard to the Bible, a document compiled out of more than 400 works, filtered down to just the select few which represented the Roman pagans interpretation of the teachings of God

  • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind

    The reason of this stupidity in Islam is the Hadith stories that most Muslims uphold as a basis for their faith. These stories came into being about 200 years after the Quran was finished. Mostly heresy and like stoning and much more lifted from the Old Testament in the Bible.

    So please read some books to change your and muslims minds on what is Deen and what does the Quran do say?.
    Islam is NOT a religion with rituals, but read some books and see for yourself. You can then also convince the islamists that their faith has NO BASIS in the Quran.

    New book well worth reading; “The criminals of Islam” by By Shabbir Ahmed, M.D., it is here;

    More books refuting Hadith are here;
    Gratis norske bøker som motbeviser Hadith og for å forstå Koranen til å laste ned:

    Free English book refuting Hadith and understand the Quran for download in PDF format
    (plus some other philosophical books):

    Malay and Indonesian books refuting Hadith;

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      Your confidence shown in knowing about the hadeeth’s and what role in Islam it plays is the most ignorant comment ever written. Clearly you have no sense or even a ounce of knowledge of what Islam is all about. The Quraan is our life manual and has everything we ever need to know or ask, its the way a muslim should live , what was and what will be. The ahadith (narrations of the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) are guidance and advice that are timeless in their wisdom. There are some ahadith, written, that will cause the hairs on the back of your neck to stand up, as most hadeeth’s are predictions that the prophet Mohamed (saw) has spoken of . For example :

      It is narrated by Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Umar that the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

      “When the belly of Makkah will be cleft open and through it will be dug out river-like passages (i.e. tunnels) and the buildings of the Holy City of Makkah will rise higher than its mountains, when you observe these signs, then understand that the time of trial is near at hand.”

      World’s tallest skyscraper: Dubai, UAE
      World’s tallest clock tower: Towers, Makkah, Saudi Arabia
      World’s tallest lighthouse: Jeddah Light, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
      World’s tallest minaret: Hassan II Mosque, Casablanca, Morocco.

      I’m confident that you don’t know what the hadeeths are ,neither have you read any of them, as your ignorance is evident .
      How did you get to saying that the hadeeth’s were written two hundred years after the Quraan was finished ?? Quraan was finished ? Do you even know how the Quraan came about ? Do you know who narrated the hadeeths and the authenticy each hadeeth holds ?
      And you call hadeeths stupidity in Islam when infact you’ve proven your stupidity in your lack of knowledge.
      Mostly heresay ?
      Your ignorance shows in the word “Islamists” for those who share your ounce of knowledge on Islam, would realise that Islamists is a word made up by you and your low I . Q as everyone even illiterate people now know that we are called “Muslims” not Islamists . Your comment makes no sense in any case and neither has a point to it. Sharing websites on people who doesn’t believe the hadeeth to be sacred probably shares your identity, with muslim names but no Islamic knowledge, so running their mouths like you would be something you share in common. Every muslim knows the importance of the hadeeth the sunnah and the Quraan so no muslim would debate nor reject it . I’ve never encountered that much confidence written in a comment which has no relevance or truth in it, but is amazingly hilarious.

      • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind

        well, I invite YOU to read the books, or go to; and read there. I know it is difficult, ALL that come to conclusion of refuting Hadith are where YOU are NOW.

      • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind
        • Aasiyah Sattar

          Do u understand my comment or do i need a drawing board with a picture of a stick man to make you understand ?
          The hadeeth’s written had been narrated by the prophet Muhammads (saw) closest companions who spent most of their time with him. If you had any clue of what the hadeeth’s status is Islam we would not be debating.

          We as muslims recover from the momentous idea that our beloved Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) loved us so much that he scattered his advice like pearls, throughout the ages to help us along our way, we then reflect on the reason we have this hadith – it is both a description and a warning to us:

          The three most sacred books in Islam :

          ONE: The first kind – THE WORD OF GOD – is found in a book called The Holy
          TWO: The second kind – THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhammad,
          may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the books of Tradition called The Hadith.
          THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of less trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!

          In any event , your links refuse to open so waste of my time, i already predicted that whatever may have been written would be a waste of time reading anyway.
          No recent article which has been quoted by any King , Queen or President of any country can make me change my view of what my religion is based on. Those who fail to see the hadeeths as authentic or find it irrelevant are not true muslims as they wish to change holy scriptures which has been passed on by God to the prophet. So you jumping up and down in amusement trying to prove something you not educated on is as animated to me as Cartoon Network, amusing but mostly annoying. So use your time on educating yourself before commenting on something you know nothing about just because you’ve spent two and a half minutes reading fables.

          • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind

            Well the links is opened by everybody else:

            “And woe, that day, to the rejectors of truth! Then in what hadith, after this, will they believe? (Holy Qur’an 77:49-50)

            Free English book refuting Hadith and understand the Quran for download in PDF format

            (plus some other philosophical books):

            Gratis norske bøker som motbeviser Hadith og for å forstå Koranen til å laste ned:


            Malay and Indonesian books refuting Hadith;


          • Aasiyah Sattar

            Firstly Einstein, when you quote from the Quraan please don’t mistaken it for the bible and change the wording according to your satisfaction .

            77|49|Woe that Day to the deniers (of the Day of Resurrection)!

            77|50|Then in what statement after this (the Quran) will they believe?

            Secondly ,no where does the Quraan talk about the hadeeth,

            I don’t get what your criticism on the hadeeth is, and why is it so important to you, when its merely narrated stories about the prophet and how he dealt with certain situations.

          • Børge Bahr Naseer Blåtind


            1) Is hadith written by S Mohammed?

            2) Did he VERIFY ANY of the information given in hadith?

            3) WHO authorized Bokhari and co to write hadith?

            4) What qualification did those who authorize Bokhari and co, have?

            5) How was the hadith collected?

            6) How did they investigate a claim?

            7) what method did they use to determine something as true ?

            8) How many hadith were rejected?

            9) WHO determined the accuracy of the collected hadith?

            10) who determined what hadith is true and which hadith need to be rejected?

            10) How was that done?

            11) Did bokhari and co refer to any WRITTEN piece of paper for their claims?

            12) Did Bokhari and co provide any proofs for their claims?

            13) did the prophet VERIFY any of the claims attribute to him?

            Most importantly


          • Aasiyah Sattar

            Your stupidity on muslims living their lives according to hadeeth’s is so illiterate its no longer amusing but a waste of space where a valid comment with valid criticism and hatred which would be worth reading.
            I’ve never met any muslim who lives their lives according to hadeeths so your confusion is baffling. The Quraan is written according to how a muslim should live . So by me justifying on how authentic hadeeths are and whether or not the prophet wrote it and who approved it, would make no sense at all. Unless you’ve decided to accept Islam and become muslim which i doubt. Truthfully dude you wasting time asking useless questions and posting useless links .
            Most importantly if you knew the contents of the Quraan you would never ask such idiotic questions about the Quraan verifying the hadeeths. You beginning to make yourself look like a fool i would advise you to stop really.

  • Hussein

    This article intends to paint a better picture of islam by simply comparing it with christianity and judaic scriptures . So , relatively the muslim scripture is less violent . I’ve heard this in other forms too . Saying muslims aren’t the sole proprietors of violence . Other religionists do it too .

    But still , two wrongs does not make a right .

    Furthermore , very few jews or christians would take their scriptures literally nowadays.
    But muslims still tend to take every single word in the AQ literally as God’s words and promote islamofacism .

    Yes , according to the Quran and hadiths ( prophetic traditions ) non muslims are of lesser stature of muslims and must be subjugated . The earth literally belongs to muslims according to them .

  • Jiří Čížek

    The author of this article is (excuse me) – idiot! While Torah, Old Testament are descriptions of deeds, which Moses was commanded to do, Quran is just embroidered with calling for killing disbelievers – it means all, who refuse islam.

    “Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians” – you are naive, if you believe it. Quran claims clearly: “Kill disbelievers till all the religions belongs to Al-Lah”. By the way – go and read hadiths, on which Muhammad destroyed villages, towns – killed men, raped women and bought them together with children in slavery.

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      I’m not sure which hadeeth’s you’ve read about the prophet murdering raping and whatever other nonsense you’ve seem to have sucked out of your thumb but please do provide your proof.
      Let’s see how naïve you clearly seem to be.

      The act of murder is rampant in the Bible.  In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night.  In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God’s irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport.  There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
          The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible.  They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders.  This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.
      1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
      Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
          Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
      Kill Witches
          You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
      Kill Homosexuals
          “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
      Kill Fortunetellers
          A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
      Death for Hitting Dad
          Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
      Death for Cursing Parents
          1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
          2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
      Death for Adultery
          If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
      Death for Fornication
          A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
      Death to Followers of Other Religions
          Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
      Kill Nonbelievers
          They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
      And the lists goes on, the Quraan does explicitly condemn aggresion and killing of civilians , and the killing of disbelivers is not a direct command or instruction from God to muslims. You wouldn’t know what the content of the Quraan is neither would you know anything about the torah, which is proven in your empty statements and creative imagination.

  • rumburak

    It is named Old Testament (Old Covenant) especially for this reason: it
    had been in effect prior to the New Testament. No christian observe
    sabbath, for example, or the law that forbid eating pork, or other laws
    prescribed in the Old Testament. If you want to learn about
    christianity or its moral code, you have to look in the New Testament,
    of course (only). It have never been otherwise in christian religion. So, samples from the Old Testament are not relevant in respect to christian moral code.

    The New Testament: the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the Acts of the Apostles, the Letters of St. Paul to the Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, the Letter to the Hebrews, the Letters of James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2 and 3 John, and Jude, and Revelation (the Apocalypse).

    Also, you can consult a catechism, if you want to learn about christian beliefs and percepts.

  • Jonathan Hughes

    Religions obey the do not hanker for peace Allah who is Satan who shines brightly being evil.

    Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when
    you catch them (47:4.

    2 Corinthians 11:14King James Version (KJV)

    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    Legal system, Militarily and police do not hanker for peace. ISIS does not hanker for peace. The same anti – Christ spirit is in all of them

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      Calling Allah satan is so childish really, do you not know your bible ?
      When Jesus sat around the table with his deciples and Judas left to collect his reward for being a traitor what was Jesus’s words to his decipiles ??

      “But now, he that hath no purse,let him take it, and likewise his bag, and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garments and buy one ! ” (Luke 22 :35-36)

      In prepration of war jews among jews.

      Did he not advise them to “turn the other cheek”. “To forgive seventy times seven”

      Let me continue :

      The “Holy Bible” the chapter 38 of Genesis. . verse 18 – “AND SHE CONCEIVED HIM.”

      Three months later, as things were bound to turn out, news reached Judah that his daughter- in-law, Tamar, had played the “harlot” and that she was with “CHILD BY WHOREDOM AND JUDAH SAID, BRING HER FORTH, AND LET HER BE BURNT.” (Genesis 38:24).

      Kill Men, Women, and Children
          “Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple.”  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded.  “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!”  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.”  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

      Let me not bore you with the rest of murderous and perverted verses of the bible, which no longer sacred or religious who was written and rewritten by man. The only line from the Quraan, christians quote all over these hate islamic websites is that one line of infidels and beheadings. Its copied and pasted on every muslim hating website its become monotonous and boring now. The Quraan has 114 chapters I’m sure you can come up with something better then parroting every one else.
      Then again you seem to edit the verse to the exact way it would it suits you. The Quraan is not the bible you have no right to edit and delete words just so you can have a better HD effect even if its just quoting. To a person who speaks arabic , you would get an award of making yourself a total arse, if you didn’t know you just changed the whole meaning and whatever you so proudly quoted is not how its read.

      This is the “full” verse you seem to have misquoted in the quraan:

      Holy Quraan : Surah Mohammed chapter 47

      Verse 4 :
      So when you meet (in fight Jihaad in Allah’s cause) , those who disbelive smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind and bond firmly (on them i.e take them as captives).Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (I.e free them without ransom), or randsom (according to what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burden.

      And before you decide to create your own definition for Jihaad, let’s get something clear.

      Jihad is struggling or striving in the way or sake of Allah. Jihad takes a very important status in the doctrine of Islam and is one of the basic duties for every Muslim. Though, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the term Holy War.
      And if it is in the sense of a religious war, muslims are forbidden to initiate war, the only time God commands us to fight is when we have to protect our homes, family or community. So we don’t go on a
      killing spree and trying to justify the crimes that muslims commit today has nothing to do with Islam and the Quraan.
      Isis is not a islamic group neither are they muslim, its like calling the illuminati christians.

  • Chris

    There is a lot of ignorance on here…let me make it simple…The Highest from of Christianity is to be like Jesus…the Highest form of Islam is to be like Mohammad. There is a HUGE difference. Fundamentalism is just taking your beliefs seriously or literally…..If Christians do it they should become like Jesus if Muslims do it they should become like Mohammad. One was a Sacrificial Savior the Other…..Let me not start a Jihad…but read his life..from his “angelic encounter”….his revelations that included taking an 8 year old as a wife….his murder and or slaughter of many, his cleansing of the infidel…his sanctioned use of deception when in a position of weakness…etc…

    • Aasiyah Sattar

      Labeling the prophet a child molester seems to be the only come back non-muslims seem to have against the prophet Mohamed (saw), it has become so monotonous, but you dont realise that the Islam is the only religion that prohibits marriage to a minor. Yet incest is allowed in America. Ironic.

      Quraan :

      24|59|And when the children among you come to puberty, then let them (also) ask for permission, as those senior to them (in age). Thus Allah makes clear His Ayat (Commandments and legal obligations) for you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

      In the United States they allow 13yr,14yr,15yr old’s to get married. Since you comparing the bible to the Quraan, let’s talk about Mary (RA) mother of Jesus, who in Islam and is stated in the Quraan as one of the most prominent women to have walked this earth. She was married to Joseph the carpenter who was 90 years old and she was 12 years old (Mathew). You have to understand there’s nothing wrong in that, in different times different concepts and different places, women mature differently. It wasn’t until 1905 when the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the prophet started becoming an issue, because times started to change and the rate of puberty and maturity in young girls began to slow down. You seem to forget that the bible speaks of the prophet Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 concubines.

      You label my Quraan and prophet as violent but let’s look at one part of bible
      and various other verses, which displays not violence but pornography at its worst.
      Does kids actually read this ? How do explain such a verse to a inquisitive 8 year old ?

      Read Genesis 19, verses 30 to the end.
      The “history” has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduce their drunken father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their father’s “seed.” “Seed” figures very prominently in this “Holy Book”: forty seven times in the little booklet of Genesis alone!
      Out of this another incestuous relationship come the “Ammonites” and the “Moabites,” for whom the God of Israel was supposed to have had a special compassion. Later on in the Bible we learn that the Jews are ordered by the same compassionate God to slaughter the Philistines mercilessly – men, women and children. Even trees and animals are not to be spared, but the Amonites and the Moabites are not to be “distressed” or “meddled” with because they are the seed of Lot! (Deuteronomy 2:19)

      Do still want to compare ?

      We believe that the prophet Mohamed(saw) is a servant and a messanger, just like the prophets before him. He had brought down the final revelation, the emphasis we have on the final messenger is the same emphasis we have on all the prophets that was sent unto mankind. The christians overlook the prophets before Jesus. Never has the prophet Mohamed displayed violence or resort to violence in his years of prophethood. I get that you refuse to believe that Quraan is the final testament but going as low as belittling and labeling and creating your own version of Islam, just to vent is retarded.
      Your statements and knowledge about the prophet seems much too empty to debate with as non of your comments actually seemed believable. Calling of violence by the prophet to his followers seems like the only thing you chose to repeat ,childish to even utter, you can do the math. Defending christianity by trashing Islam doesn’t seem like very God fearing christian thing to do, no matter what the religion consists of, lying about it just to justify your bible is infact a sin. Third commandment I think “thou shall not lie” ? So let’s stop preaching and comparing the Bible to Quraan which is incompatible because trust me, that’s one debate you will surely lose. Not a ego thing, just confident. The best part is, I won’t have to discredit your bible, have the worst name calling for your prophets and trash your religion when doing it, as you have done to mine.

  • ahva

    This man is an uneducated. I only had to read 2 lines to know he is clueless on the Quran and on the ways scripture is interpreted. The Quran Specifically calls for genocide of the entire Jewish race in no uncertain terms and the order is for every Muslim from the time of Muhammad to right NOW.. Not a one time thing command. It Commands the killing of infidels.. of which this man Obviously is. Because he has ZER0 understand and is actually a danger to the future of humanity and the continuation of the human.race to live in any time of freedom. let me back my self up. And I know this pontificating Fool can not do any thing but shut his mouth.I’M GOING TO BLOW THIS THIS MAN OUTTA THE WATER. .With their own words and the very suras and the Muhammad wrote and hadiths.. and even give you a tiny education

    ‘Stones and trees calling out ‘kill the Jews’,”Our war with the descendants of the apes and pigs (i.e., Jews) is a war of religion and faith. Long Live Fatah!”-[PA TV (Fatah), Jan. 9, 2012]

    This statement was made by the moderator at a Fatah event, the PA and Fatah define the conflict with Israel as an uncompromising religious war, mandated by Islam.

    “We call on our Palestinian people, particularly the residents of northwest Gaza, not to obey what is written in the pamphlets distributed by the Israeli occupation army. We call on them to remain in their homes and disregard the demands to leave, however serious the threat may be.”-“We are not leading our people to execution as we stand by and look on. No. We are leading them to death – I mean, to confrontation.”July 14, 2014-Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas)

    “Death for Allah is our most exalted wish!” (Muslim Brotherhood slogan) You received the death you wanted. We have no problem with death. We are not like the children of Israel: “And you will surely find them the most greedy of people for life.”Aug. 1, 2014

    Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews

    He says it in both Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam’s two most canonical hadith collections:

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
    “I heard Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad]saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ ”

    9:29 Fight [q-t-l] those among the people of the Book who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden and do not profess the true religion, till they pay the poll-tax out of hand and submissively.–Scholars regard Sura 9 as the last sura to be revealed from on high. Therefore, it sets policies for Muslims today,often interpreted as abrogating or canceling previous verses, even peaceful ones. Forever.. this Sura will Never change,and this gives Abu Bakr the OK.. to ignore, Every good verse.. and Behead babies … rape children, rip women apart..set people on fire.. bury them alive.. and the list keep going

    Dude get and education… your daughters are depending on you.. And you REALLY Don’t want me to school you on that.. I will make you cry.I am SO sick of people who have NO clue screwing with people minds. You better learn who wants you dead.They MEAN IT.

  • Brian

    This is the most idiotic story I’ve read in quite awhile.

  • Brad O’Donnell

    Maybe murdering non-believers is not in the New Testament, but for around 1000 years, the Roman Catholic Church was the most murderous and inhumane of any institution in western history. Read about the 11th Crusade. It was nothing but a slaughter of the Cathars of southern France… They were Christians who simply followed Christ’s teaching that God asked us to love our neighbors. They were animal lovers and vegetarians. They refused to pay taxes to the Church, so Pope “Innocent III” tortured and burned them all.

    The Roman Catholic Church taught that going to war against the “Infidels” was an act of Christian penance. If a believer was killed during a crusade, he would bypass purgatory, and be taken directly to heaven. By eliminating what might be many millennia of torture in purgatory, many Christians were strongly motivated to volunteer for the crusades[LD1] .

    The bible has been used “to justify the superiority of Christianity to other religions so you could actually hate other religions because they are infidels. I think we need to get beyond that.” Bishop John Spong Newark, NJ.

    These are some of the reasons 50% of Americans have left church since 1960. Gallop says less than 20% attend church today.

    The Baptists expect to lose half their churches in the next 20 years. The Christian website says few young adults believe in Satan or that Christianity is the only true religion.

    Roman Christianity is rapidly losing credibility with young adults…read about it why it’s happening…

    Watch 2 min. Video:

    Truly, Brad O’Donnell Richmond, Va..

    [LD1]AU: This quote and the follow-up
    quote need to be attributed.

  • pbr90

    Accurate labels for what takes place in the Bible seems to be the first matter of importance to distinguish what is humane and what isn’t, unless absence of logic is to be the sum and substance of religion.

  • sidneycoadwilliams


  • sidneycoadwilliams


  • sarah

    I have a feeling that i will be contacting you very soon regarding the phases of our schedule we set up on the subsequent contact. Plan one went according to your time line and has now been implemented in the right and correct procedure. No hiccups! I have great faith in you now I am living with the results from your first spell. (Amazing) Your second spell should be speeding in very soon. I will be able to tell more when the correct date happens.So then, the right will be the next consultation to set up and coerce the blessed plan into action. Many thanks for your bold work and enterprising scope serving humanity . I am deeply impressed. Your authentic spiritual work is a refreshing change. It takes dedication to work as you do with such dignity and respect. I highly recommend your services and this. thank to you

  • you have to be kidding…

    The bible tells stories of things that have happened in the past. The Koran tells people at all times to actively terrorize and kill in the name of God. That’s the difference. What a huge distortion of the bible to compare the two types of speech. No one ever claimed the bible didn’t have “violence” in it. The problem is that the Koran advocates it on several fronts. Show me that in the bible.

  • mman

    Christians VS Muslims….. I am not so quick to compare and make a statement that both are
    similar. I do know this however, even the Quran calls Jesus a prophet. Strangely
    Muslims believe Jesus was just a prophet but that He was not the son of God.
    Here’s the big problem with that, Jesus said things like “if you have seen me
    you have seen the father” and “I and the father are One” and “Before Abraham
    was, I AM”. Now if saw a guy walking around saying those things I certainly could
    not say he was a great prophet. I’d say he was either a complete liar or that I just met the son God!

    I think the question that has to be asked (assuming you believe in God) is which God is the
    real God. I have no difficulty accepting that God hates sin and totally destroys it.

  • joe

    The anti-Christian rhetoric and argument we see he reflects the idiotic and willfully ignorant misunderstanding of what most Christians today really believe. By all means! If you have a problem with any religion be it Islam, Buddhism, or Christianity, or whatever…make sure you never actually listen to wise people who practice that religion. Just find the nutjobs of each religion that will help you make your own points and do your own prejudicial research to support the conclusions you have already come to.

  • pete1589

    Yeah, well, it’s proven that institutionalized atheism in the form of Soviet Communism was responsible for 350 million murders last century. American atheists are responsible for 53 million abortions in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade. Compare that to the Catholic Church’s murders in the 20th century and I think you’ll find atheism far more murderous than any Christian institution. Just sayin’ …

  • Each of the religions
    has sects with differing beliefs .Everyone has great concerned to its religion. People with different
    religions have their own way of livings and thoughts about God but we should remember all religions point to the
    same universal power that is unique.

  • The Sage

    i agree with one common observation all religions create war and conflict due to attempt to punish if preaching fails

    attempting to bypass or defy free will is what starts the fire in every single scenario for every religion forget what god or Muhammad or Jesus says if it uses force upon an unwilling target party it leads to conflict and thus creates problems

    bottom line

    nobody knows how to attain complete understanding or complete tolerance of others yet on this planet

    and thus war exists

  • Emyarsan

    What Christian fundamentalist kill others in the name of religion? Do you have at least one example in the modern time? Do you heard about anybody killing people because they are not Christians? How many are killed everyday for the Muslims on behalf of Alla? How many have been killed recently in Northern Nigeria? Don´t you see the evidence that Muslims kill people because that is the commandment they received from Mohammed and Christian love people because this is the commandment they received from Christ? I know, you don´t want to see. That´s simple.

  • bible thumper

    The bible Clearly states that they were to treat their neighbors and aliens in their land well because they were once aliens in another country. This is a command. The wars they had concerned those that wanted to dispossess them from their land. The people that were displaced in cannon were the most debase culture on the planet. God gave them 470 years to repent and they did not. One practice they did was offer their Children to the god of moloch as a burnt sacrifice…alive for prosperity. Not to different from the abortion industry today which God is judging us for now by the way. I put liberal demarcates and ISIS and muslims all in the same horrific wicked slaughter category, they just do it for different reasons. Muslims commit these atrocities because the Koran commands it. Dems do it because they are sick and twisted. The only difference is the pro death abortion loving earth worshiper do their bloody deeds in the cover of the womb and ISIS do it openly for all to see.
    One uses knives to decapitate and the other uses hook like instruments to dismember.

  • Craig

    You have obviously never read the bible or you would laugh at your own ignorance.
    Little note to my brothers and sisters; don’t accept anything blindly without first investigating it on your own.

  • Really

    Again this issue isn’t the religion, it’s the REGION, and Islam is in the region of morons, idiots, and psychos.

  • Bacon

    What can Muslims not do because of there beliefs?

  • heatherGirl

    This is the most stupid article. They imply all religions are the same when it comes to violence, when we see the violence primarily from only one religion.

    It is much easier to make a list of the violence from followers of Islam, then it is to find the same thing from any other religion! Most people need to go back as far as the Christian crusades to do it!

    And I do not think anyone can find a single example of anyone killing in the name of Christianity, screaming “Jesus lives” while slaughtering people!

    This problem is uniquely Islamic…. anyone who says otherwise is just being stupid on purpose.

  • heatherGirl

    Even if you can cite references to killing in the bible, the reality is very few Christians are committing mass murder across the world and then pointing to their religion as the reason!
    Keep in mind that there is a difference between killing people and then SAYING you did so based on your religion and someone who kills and happens to be of a particular religion.
    When we see these killings by Islamic radicals they are screaming “Allah is Great”…….. I have not once seen any Christians kill people and screaming “Jesus lives”……

  • patricia travis

    watch out for the Christian and or Jewish and or Hindu and or Amish terrorists!!!

  • fatz2fly

    The author does a disservice to his supposed expertise by comparing violence in the Bible to that of the Qur’an. In fact, it is the contrast that is compelling. Violence in the Old Testament is in the context of history, not a call to action. Pertinent to Christians, the New Testament contains no call to arms. By contrast, the Qur’an contains more than a hundred passages advocating proactive violence against nonbelievers and infidels. This article perpetuates a myth that it is terrorists that are the problem, not Islamic ideology.

  • ziggyman911

    Just maybe we should try using common sense. This article is onl y trying to take the monkey off the back of Islam but the truth is Islam is a religion of terrorism. No matter where you look or where you decide to study on this subject try using common sense. From the Persian Empire to the Ottoman Empire and everywhere in between. Which brings us to our present day Islam has brought nothing but terrorism and feed the world full of lies wrapped in a tomb of death. At least compare apples to apples so the subject you are speaking of can literally be applied to what is going on before my eyes. Religious fundamentalist do not compare to religious terrorism so please let’s not be stupid this is an outrageous moment of someone who literally does not know what they are talking about this is a very bad article. Give me one example where unarmed fundamentalist crazy Christians armed themselves and went on a killing spree. Just because someone made a cartoon of the virgin Mary or they slander Prophet John the Baptist. In truth the world should attempt to open their eyes. Islam is the problem of the whole world. Freedom of speech is not the problem liberty is not the problem and religious fundamentalist are not the problem neither. Where the problem lies is Islam sinks into the lowers bowels of the earth. And they have taken the responsibility of judging the world for the Prophet Muhammad because Allah can not do it for himself neither can the dead Prophet Mohammed do it. So here’s my solution let’s take away freedom take away liberty, no news paper why no freedom of press. Everyone can just fall under one great big umbrella of religious dictatorship. Because that is what we have under Islam. And if you do not think so take a look at France they even gave them there own court their own streets and they deserved everything they are getting for being so accommodating to Islam so how does it feel now!!!

  • Jim b

    I think this article hit the nail right on the head. The comments I have read prove its points. Just keep drinking the Kool aid people, and argue about whose invisible man is tougher.

    • Red Raider

      I bet you think Aristotle, Plato and Homer were invisible too.

      • Jim b

        Thank you for proving my point. You choose to impose what you think that I must believe because I don’t agree with you. I never mentioned Jesus and neither did the article, although now that you mention it I am sure you are not suggesting that Jesus is now visible are you ? Because if you are you should be talking to someone with Dr. in front of their name instead of me right now. You know yourself that you believe that Jesus and your god, or Jesus as your god are invisible spirits, alive in a spirit world watching over you. I dont think you are suggesting that Aristotle, Plato and Homer are invisible spirits now are you? I do believe the man Jesus lived years ago, and I do believe he fancied himself a prophet. I do not believe that he was god or the son of god and therefor worthy of our worship. I do not believe in an invisible spirit world and for you to call that childish because you still do believe the stories you were told as a child, is the pot calling the kettle black. Atheism takes much more growing, than just believing the stories you were told as the answers for the universe. I do believe in the universe being a much larger place than just the human race on this earth. My mind can accept that I dont know the answers to everything and that is ok. I dont need the made up answers that your or any other religion gives for the purpose of this life or this small insignificant planet in this vast universe. The one thing that I do know is there is no god, never was never will be. It is a made up story to give answers to weak minded people so they can sleep at night.

  • Guest

    Actually it is. Islam these days is not Secular !BAM! thats the root cause of the whole problem if you want to simplify it. Secular Islam is great (pretty much the entire history of positive things in Islam came from Secular periods). Sunni islam has spent around 1000 years attempting to oppress all the other forms of Islam (especially ones that pre-date it). Not to mention banning science to the masses as un-islamic (and stopping the education of the masses and forcing their education to be the ‘sunni’ Koran only). This led to a deep division between the arab/Islamic people ..not to mention the 300 year genocide (committed by Sunni Islam on other muslims/arabs etc – only stopped at the start of the 1900 century and its still the main issue that caused the current hatred between the different groups) ..sadly as history is not taught well in the middle east this fact is not know by enough people (outside historians) although it is spread by word of mouth. In fact (to this day) many Muslims call themselves ‘sunni’ to avoid being attacked for their real beliefs (this even happens in the UK and the US).

    On a side note, Christianity is secular (separation of church+state etc etc etc) and thats what calmed it down (that and the fact that as a people Christians had enough of killing each other). The same is sadly not yet true of the Arab population in the middle east. To recap, secular Islam good ..any other form (no matter how much they try to circular argue) are born to commit violence on those who think differently from them.

  • Anthony Hope Marris

    How about this?

    It’s pointless to have this ridiculous dick-measuring contest wherein we try to decide whose God is more or less violent, which religion calls for violence and which doesn’t, which group has committed more atrocities, etc. None of these arguments are at all sound because violence and hatred are not quantifiable. You want to waste your day trying to prove that any one religion is objectively less violent? Good luck. If you really think a religious person will suddenly say “hey, you know what? You’re right, my God DOES suck! Which way to your church?” then I feel sorry for you because you’re missing the point.

    I’ll be over here trying to learn and understand as best as I can what kind of factors breed fundamentalism, so maybe we can actually do something to stop it.

  • Graham Strouse

    Most Christians don’t interpret their Bible literally. This is kind of an important point.

    • Red Raider

      Sure they do. They wouldn’t be Christian then, choosing for themselves what they don’t like and don’t like and ignoring the part they don’t like.

  • John O’Neill

    The difference between Christian Fundamentalists and Islamic Fundamentalists is that nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus, all praise and glory to His name, call for the death of unbelievers. In fact he doesn’t call for the death of anyone except for himself. End of story.

  • Tammy Noel Smith

    Here lies the problem…When people who don’t believe in anything but themselves,opens a book and doesn’t understand it,this is the end result.This is why Jesus spoke in Parables.He was speaking to those that would WANT to know what He was really saying.He made sure they would really SEARCH THE TRUTH. This author seems to have thrown the baby out with the bath water.Such a pity too,they have no idea what they are missing in the Gospels.

  • Sean

    Actually Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate so he’s actually the one commanding the Jews to destroy those people in the Old Testament. Your image of Jesus being this happy hippy is dead wrong. Jesus is the god of the Old Testament and he will avenge himself of the wicked. There’s nothing in moral about this he’s not a man ordering the execution of people he’s God And who the hell are you to tell him what is moral and not moral. Be saved today will by the blood of Christ which you do not deserve By trusting in God as your Savior by trusting that he rose from the grave. But don’t pretend there’s no vengeance to come it’s coming. And it’s coming up on all that reject the gospel. You may find this intolerant, But it matters little because God Does what he wills and God is ultimately the judge. He Controls the universe and your mock him at your own peril.

  • Augustine

    Saul did disobey, but the people he was ordered to kill are not innocent, they violated the law of God. Nations were destroyed because their people did things like offer kids as sacrifices to idols, sleep with their parents, etc. The Old Testament shows the seriousness of sin and judgement, while the New Testament encourages mercy. Yes, Saul did not obey and for that was condemned, but the people he was sent to kill did not have a right to live anyways, neither does anyone who has disobeyed the law of God, but it is by his mercy that we exist. They committed sin that resulted in judgement. It is unfortunate but that is how it is, I wouldn’t want them to die either, but God comes first and there time was over. The problem is certain people don’t take sin as serious as God does; you can see someone beat a kid up on video without any justifiable reason and people laugh at it and to God that is utterly disgusting. People may do things like hate each other for unjust reason or lust to the point of masturbation, which I regret doing but I also did, and God finds things that that utterly disgusting as well. See, the Old Testament has shown what a man would deserve for what he did. The New Testament has shown the mercy of God, so you can compare and see how great he is. It is not impossible to be clean of horrible behavior or bad tendency, God can make a man new. It’s just that people think they’re righteous so they think he is evil, when in fact those same people do not know what is ‘righteous’, or they would know he is good.

  • Kris Kuksi

    That’s my Churchtank Type 8 for the image credit.

  • Polisalwaysright

    Oh what a brave article! So brave!

    • Red Raider

      Yeah, it takes alot of courage to post something so ignorant.

  • όλη η γνώση

    Hmmmm the difference being that when was the last time Christians were beheading non- Christians? Where in the entire world do Christians denounce all other religions and outlaw their practice? Which Christian country throws non-Christians in jail for practicing another religion? Which Christian country forbids by law, marrying outside of your father’s religion? Which Christian country stones, drowns, burnsor kills their daughters for having sexual relations outside of marriage or denouncing their Christian faith….shall I continue? Name one passage from the New Testament that preaches hate….I only need one? Only an ignorant person would draw biblical passages from the old testament to justify this argument.

  • carlos gonzalez

    Wrong! The problems are the fundamentals of

  • Sonny Nelson

    God ordered the destruction of the Amalekites because they had earlier refused to aid the Jews against another enemy, and when that happened, they sealed their doom. Christ came to earth to convert the Jewish nation so that they would follow His new teachings and do away with the old. With few exceptions, Christ had nothing to do with the Gentiles. Only after it became evident that most Jews were not interested in the new Christian doctrine, and after the death and resurrection of Christ, did Christ turn his attention to the Gentiles salvation and he did this through the Apostle Paul, who had been the worst enemy of the Jewish Christians, until Christ got his attention on the road to Damascus. Theology will be discussed and cussed until the second coming and there will always be disagreements on the subject. I choose to believe that Christ lives, has home in Heaven for those that follow him and that those that profess faith in Christ will receive a home there. There are those of the secular nature that disagree with me, which I hate for their sake’s, but so mote it be. They will say that there is no proof for the existence of God and Christ and I counter with the fact that neither can they prove their non existence, so the argument is moot.

  • Freedom

    Where does it tell Christians to do genocide as told record by the writers of the New Testament What happened under the Jewish laws in the old testament and the teachings of Christ are complete opposites. There are zero commandments for Christian to ever use violence even for self-defense. The book of Acts records thousands of Christians being killed and imprisoned by both the Jews and the Romans but not one account of violent retribution. We were commanded to love our enemies. This guy is completely clueless on his history.

  • fumobs

    The problem isn’t Religious Fundamentalism. The problem is this article (and ultimately the author) pointing out an issue but not knowing the history behind it. That’s like looking at a house burnt down and pointing the finger at the first sight of the guy nearest the house–talk about “shoot first, ask later”.

    Regarding the article’s specific example of the Amalekites…it’s amazing how the follow-up question that should’ve been asked…was not: “well, why did God order that?” Look up the history of the Amalekites (it’s a bit too long for a comment so I won’t lay it all out here) and you’ll find it leads back to a time when they attacked Israel whom had just broke out of Egypt. Israelites supposedly had no issues with Amalekites at that time, nor were they looking for trouble but were attacked anyway. That’s like breaking free of a tyrant and finding freedom in the outside world, only to find another tyrant attacking you. The follow-up question should be “why did the Amalekites attack Israelites in the first place?” GO AHEAD AND DO SOME RESEARCH.

    To the author: you’re writing an article that’s going public…you need to get all the angles before you present something..ANYTHING. Otherwise, you mislead your readers, you lose credibility, and you prove to those who actually know something that you’re ignorant or lacking discipline to do your
    job properly. Surely, people make mistakes…but I would think you understand that it isn’t just the people carrying out actions themselves who pay for the consequences but others around them are also affected. So, PLEASE do yourself a favor and either quit writing articles or do your
    job (i.e. research) better.

    Last but not least, please don’t quote scripture (or anything for that matter) out of context.

    • Red Raider

      fumobs, the writer is just an arrogant, God hating, Christian hating liberal who thinks he has a clue but doesn’t. Doesn’t have but the the propaganda of other arrogant, God hating, Christian hating liberals. He makes up these false and baseless scenarios in his head, or uses false and baseless scenarios he has heard from others, then selectively takes facts that support his opinion and ignores the rest.

  • raiderwolf

    There is an elephant in the room that the writer of this post is ignoring, or flat out lying about. But EVERYONE knows about this elephant. In fact, it is so well known that no one brings it up because everyone knows everyone knows it. That is atheists have killed MANY, MANY more people in the name of the atheist religion than any other religion, fundamentalist or otherwise. Not only that, but it CONTINUES to kill people, perhaps still MORE than Islam has killed in modern times. Atheists killed MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people during the Atheist Communist revolutions. Not only THAT, it SPECIFICALLY targeted civilians. The VAST, VAST, VAST majority of those killed were unarmed civilians. But that is apparently Okay with the writer of this article because I don’t see him criticizing atheists over this. And you know what, ALL of these who were slaughtered were slaughtered because they would not convert to the State Religion of Communism, ATHEISM. Not only that, they even killed people who

  • K L Hill

    “While the Koran Calls for Violence, The Bible Is Even Worse … Calling for Genocide”
    Quote a verse from the Bible that is “calling for Genocide”. YOU said “calling”. That is a present tense continuing verb. That is not what you quoted in the post about Saul. What you quoted is in the past and a one time event and there IS no verse for a continuing “calling for genocide” for Jews OR Christians are called to kill anyone. So your VERY FIRST SENTENCE is a lie. And since the rest of the article is based on that lie, the rest of it is a lie as well. In short, you are either ignorant or a liar and neither are a good thing. Either you are clueless about what you are talking about or know what you wrote is wrong and chose to write it anyway.

  • Jaussie

    What a nonsense article, you are ignoring the fact that the ones committing all kind of atrocities in this 21st century (and most of the terror attacks occurred in the 20th century were and are from islam. How conveniently you ignore this fact.
    The first crusades were the muslim crusades, that advanced over the christian territories destroying or forcing conversion.
    Your analysis is simplistic and doesn’t respond to real historical and current facts. Typical left apologist.

    • K L Hill

      I wonder where the writer is to defend what he wrote, defending it against these many valid points about how negligent this post is.

  • Jaussie

    I am not sure which part of the quran you read, but evidently you ignored the more than 109 quranic verses advocating violence and commanding moslems to kill and subjugate non believers, and to behand apostates.
    Although many religious texts (including the bible) may include violence, it is their interpretation and the way these text are applied that makes a difference. Western countries are secular, and the law is applied independently from religion. This is not the case with islam and the arab countries, where sharia law, state, culture and punishement are integrated, as it was demonstrated lately by the saudis cruel 1000 lashes punishment of the blogger raif badawi for calling for a secular state (!) and the decapitation of a burmese woman accused of abusing and killing her step daughter (she begged for mercy and declared her innocence to the last minute).
    You are lucky that we still live in a country where freedom of speech is still a right, and you can vent your hatred for our western civilization as you did in this occasion, always apologetic, blaming the west and christianity for everything that is wrong in this world. If this was an islamic country, and you would be critizise islam, not christianity, you would have suffered the same cruel punishement as raif bawadi suffered. Thank western civilization and christian values for freedom of speech, human rights and tolerance.

    • jaussie

      meant to say ‘behead’ not behand.

    • K L Hill

      “If this was an islamic country, and you would be critizise islam, not christianity, you would have suffered the same cruel punishement as raif bawadi suffered.”

      This is how anarchist and terrorist operate and which the writer of the blog is. They exploit the freedoms they are given due to the religious principles of Christianity to attack the very thing that allows them to attack the source of those principles, Christianity, with virtually no consequences.

  • K L Hill

    “Indeed, a Christian fundamentalist who kills others in the name of religion is much more similar to a Muslim – or Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist – fundamentalist who kills others in the name of his religion than to a Christian who peacefully fights for justice and truth, helps the poor, or serves to bring hope to the downtrodden.”

    Another lie. Give the verse that covers a Christian fundamental that dictates killing anyone. If there is no verse that establishes that there is a fundamental of Christianity that dictates killing anyone, then it can’t be a Christian Fundamentalist who is carrying out a fundamental of Christianity since there is no such fundamental in Christianity and therefore does not have anything to do with Christianity other than someone falsely claiming they are doing it based on Christianity.

  • Bilbo

    Writer, do you even begin to understand the history of Christian repulsion of the pig-god Islamists?

    You are a short sighted myopic hater of all things good.

  • JoseKhanYohsi

    How do you guys like grasping for straws to justify your cowardliness and the truth about your kind to protect the Muslim mole in the Whitehouse who a gutless swine.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      As compared to who? The Nazi who preceeded him?

  • JoseKhanYohsi

    Yeah, I saw it and they are grasping for straw to justify their cowardliness. Anything to protect the Muslim mole Obama, hah?

  • Chris Suits

    jesus was a communist who died stop believing these stupid myths you stupidly stupid people.

  • willi santiago

    Totally agree. The Torah, The Bible and the Quran are all full of violence. As are the writings of Buddha. Moses, Jesus and Mohamed all spoke against it. But for some, it’s just easier to hate. Bigotry is born of fear and hate, no amount of logic will diffuse it. Only love for oneself and others will do that.

    List of violence in the New Testament:

  • willi santiago

    It’s interesting how many comments say, “You missed the main message of the New Testament”, but then go on to point out specific lines in the Quran. Guys, “You missed the main message of the Quran”

  • Bobbie Jo Justice

    America likes to demonize ISIS and other “terror” groups, but the truth is americans aren’t much better, if at all. Between 1882 and 1968 — 1968! — there were 4,743 recorded lynchings in the US. (and I wonder how many more were not recorded). About a quarter of them were white people, many of whom had been killed for sympathizing with black folks.

    Today of course instead of black people being killed, it is gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people being labeled as “less than human”, and being harassed, bullied and murdered by American “Christian terrorists”.
    Transgender Teenager Leelah Alcorn wasn’t murdered by “evil muslims”, she was murdered by her “Christian” parents. The Christian Taliban strikes again.

  • Christian John

    Killing has nothing to do with religion. Killing is part of nature. Even without religion people would still kill themselves.Stalin was a military atheist and he was not better he caused the Holodomor.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Killing is part of nature? Only if you are a mountain lion 1865 Coilorado territory Sand Creek
      350 Cheyenne Indian women children and old people were butchered and mutilated by the Rev. John Chivington, “Nits make lice’ he said “kill them all young and old,and be secure in the knowledge we are doing Gods work.’

  • Slo Mo

    All religious Books were written by man.
    NOT by the hand of God.
    Man is conniving and treacherous.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Religion itself is man made. A mechanism designed to control others.

      • Slo Mo

        In the beginning, sitting around the fire in a cave, the young would turn to the Elder for answers.
        The Elder didn’t have real answers, but couldn’t let them know that, so he just made it up on the fly, and the youngers carried it forward.

  • ac287149

    The Hebrew word “herem” denotes a setting-apart for a particular purpose, when, for instance, property is devoted for Temple use. In Arabic the harem is the place set aside for the women. When Joshua destroyed the city of Jericho, he pronounced a “herem” on anything appertaining to the city

    Where are the Christian fundamentalists who have killed anyone? The crusades were 1400 years ago, in response to pleas to protect Christian pilgrims who were being attacked by legions of Islamic terrorists and being forced to convert to Islam on the way to the Holy Land. They were also to restore the Christian and Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and elsewhere to the Christians (and Jews) after Imperialist Islamic-supremacists-using-terrorism-to-subjugate-entire-nations were driven out of the Holy Land.
    The Nazis were occult, not Christian. They rejected Jesus Christ and worshipped both Hitler and his State. The churches which were tolerated preached Hitler and his thousand-year Reich which was in direct competition with Jesus Christ.

    1. Christians believe in the fundamental doctrines of the Bible. People should read it before slandering and libeling Christians and defaming the Word of God and then deliberately poisoning other people against the Bible. This list is not exhaustive, but I could go on for another hour…

    2. Allah and Jehovah are not the same. Jehovah has a Son named Jesus Christ, who is both God and man, who died to pay the price for human Sin and resurrected from Death to save everyone who would call on Him for redemption. Every knee will bow to Him and call Him LORD.
    Allah does not.
    Jehovah spent millennia teaching us about His character and His values so we could understand Him better.
    Allah can neither be touched nor understood, according to Muslims.

    3. Other fundamental Biblical doctrines are:
    Thou shalt not commit murder… thou shalt not steal… thou shalt not bear false witness (through slander, libel, or deception)… thou shalt not covet… thou shalt not commit adultery… honor your father and mother… love your neighbor as yourself… “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them”… “all who draw the sword will die by the sword”… “blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted”… “Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise”…”Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” … “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.” … “Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.” …”There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us.” … “However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.” …”Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” …”
    But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;”… “When you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others…”
    “Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?” …”39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.”…“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits.”…
    … 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others?”…

    4. What are you blathering about in this article? Where is the “murder of outsiders” called for in the Bible?

    Zechariah 7:9-10 “Thus has the LORD of hosts said, ‘Dispense true justice and practice kindness and compassion each to his brother; and do not oppress the widow or the orphan, the stranger or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.’

    Ezekiel 22:29 “The people of the land have practiced oppression and committed robbery, and they have wronged the poor and needy and have oppressed the sojourner without justice.

    Jeremiah 22:3 ‘Thus says the LORD, “Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

    Psalms 146:9 “The LORD protects the strangers; He supports the fatherless and the widow, But He thwarts the way of the wicked.”

    Exodus 23:9 “You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt.

    Deuteronomy 31:12 “Assemble the people, the men and the women and children and the alien who is in your town, so that they may hear and learn and fear the LORD your God, and be careful to observe all the words of this law.

    Acts 13:47 “For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.'” When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

    Romans 9:24-26 “even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea, “I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’ AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.'” “AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’ THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”

    1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 “and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.”

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      And Christians butchered 30 million Indians over a four hundred year period. That makes them better?

      • ac287149

        I’ve never heard about that, show me where to find the information you’re using. India certainly lost a lot of people if what you say is true.

        • Jacob Eagleshield

          I was refering to American Indians

  • Cactus Pastor

    This indicates a complete lack of understanding of what the Bible teaches. It lacks context and conflates two opposites. Pathetic!

  • paulalovescats

    The fundamentalists are the ones following their scripture correctly. The problem is religion. And before you bring up the ‘loving’ guy in the NT, Jesus cursed a fig tree to death because figs were out of season. He couldn’t come up with a fig like he came up with bread and fish. He also said to leave your family if they didn’t convert to your religion. That’s not extremism? Jesus probably didn’t exist.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Stories. Mythology,with no more truth in it that Zeus The bible is full of metaphors not meant to be taken literally.

  • Jeff Nunayorbizness

    Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (obey). 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled (to this day, neither heaven nor earth has passed away).19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    According to the New Testament, what is sin?

    1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid! ……

    Now then, the person who says that the New Testament does not support the Old Testament, is a “moderate” Christian, and himself ignorant of what is written in the New Testament.

  • Voice Of Reason

    Why are we arguing over a bunch of bullshit stories made up centuries ago? To spin off this article, it isn’t fundamentalism that are the problem, it is religion.

    • Jacob Eagleshield


  • Robert Troy Drury

    The reason your position is stupid is that you fail to see that Bible believers are not typically a threat to your life and radical Muslims are.

  • See the real picture
  • Steve Granger

    Written like a true liberal atheist. Christianity is about the teachings of Christ. Go back to writing what you know about best, and leave Christianity out of your blog.

    • Jacob Eagleshield

      Christ was about humanity. Something you born again hate mongers know nothing about.

  • Eric Haulenbeek

    It’s odd that Jenkins seeks to compare the 8th century cultural norms of islam with text in the book of Samuel, written in the 7th century BC. That’s a 1500 year swing! The comparisons are vague at best, but lots of things have changed in our world over the past 1500 years too, and cultural comparisons are simply ludicrous. Try again Mr. Jenkins!

  • Jonathan Hughes

    Religion in the west takes a book of truth making people break love works no ill. KJV cambridge edition. The Quran makes people break that law never teaching it fooling people into thinking they have it not having it. Quran is like iron pyrite which is fools gold.

  • Kate

    more lies because of your hateful attitude. Christians do not live under the law (old testament) but under the new testament of the Holy bible. When God’s son died on the cross it was once and for all. Even before then, true believers in God did not burn and kill people just because they wanted to. It is living proof of what Islam is doing and why….so, before you speak, speak truth not lies regarding something that isn’t. I have known many a believers in Jesus the son of God and they do not go around killing people. It doesn’t take a “fundamental christian” to murder, we have enough of that already and most of the time they are usually on drugs or have a sick allegiance to something so far out that no one in their right mind wants to be a part of it.

  • Jeroen

    The word “Religious” could have been left out of the title. Religions do not have a monopoly on violence that is motivated by moral convictions and made easy by dehumanizing people and groups with enemy images. Anyone can do that. If you don’t want to misuse a religion’s narratives to justify your violence, you can always find other reasons. It’s much more challenging to keep seeing the humanness of people despite suffering from their actions. I don’t think that that’s any easier for someone who is not identifying him- or herself with a religion.

  • Jacob Eagleshield

    Fundamentalist Christians are no better than ISIS or the Taliban. Instead of the violence of the colonial period(read about Cotton Mather) they use mind control.They use shame and guilt to keep people ‘in line’,especially in those personality cults led by Robertson,Copland etc.
    I don’t trust conservative Christians(an oxymoron as Jesus was a reformer) any further than I can spit.
    They are mean spirited,narrow minded,tunnel visioned,humorless,rigid,and plain heartless to anyone who is not one of them.


    I danced around this a bit, because atheists and anti-God demagogues are expert at twisting the scripture from what it says.


    The author of this hateful rant full hides his obfuscation of reason behind a facade of Buckley-like rhetorical argumentation. It’s so seductively elaborated he likely believes it himself.

    There is no escape from several major facts and rational-thinking considerations here.

    First, this demagoguery always cherry-picks the quotes they like to repeat, yank them out of their context and qualifications and restrictions, PLUS they leave out the quotes that contradict their very claims.

    ONE. The context of the quote makes very clear why this was to be. The Canaanites were themselves beyond violent, sacrificing their infants to the fire of their Molech idols, and the depraved violence seen in Sodom and Gomorrah was now entrenched, and casting a memory back to Abraham, there was not even five righteous people to be found in the tribes therein.

    TWO. The general mandate was to only kill the male warriors and kings that engaged in battle against the Hebrews. Save the women and children alive, was the mandate from God. That’s better than the U.S. Army and even Marines that has now unleashed their commanders to send women into the heat of battle. (Your sister and your mother did not demand this. It was the socialist-feminists and female Pentagon generals who want a crack at the Chairman’s seat).

    THREE. After point number TWO, some antagonist is going to rush to one of those hate-God web sites and pull out a quote where God said to go ahead and eliminate the women and the children. What the hate-God web site will not tell, and the gullible soul will not bother to consider, is WHY. Nor will they tell you that it is an exceptional one-time case and that the rules in every other case are to live at peace with all men inasmuch as you can.

    They also don’t tell about other plenty of exceptions. Exceptions for adultery, exceptions from

    The Amalekites are a good example. THREE TIMES they had attacked the twelve tribes with genocidal intent. That’s why Samuel’s instructions to Saul were so complete. Saul saved the king Agag alive and probably let his queen escape, so we find a descendant in the book of Esther who tries to kill all the Jews, Haman the Agagite.

    So because Saul disobeyed, the Jews were scheduled for destruction throughout the Persian Empire.

    Never again was there any such exception. But there were prophecies of the Messiah, “Prince of Peace”, and then the Prince of Peace came to our world, and his followers preached peace everywhere they went.

    Jesus said, “Go ye into all the world and make disciples in every nation”. NOT corpses.

    Imposters that preach adventurism and beat war drums are not followers of Jesus Christ.

    “From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?” — James 4:1

  • patriotmom54

    With all that’s happened since you wrote this….still think it is just fundamentalist?? I challenge you to come up with multiple situations of Christians doing anything in any place in the world that even slightly rivals in horror, terror and blood lust, what is being done by radical Islamists.

  • smithmr

    “Islam is one of the great evils in the world. Christianity has evolved.” – Richard Dawkins, a staunch atheist!

  • Tob Breogh

    The answer to all this lies in one simple factor: the number of violent fanatics and even supposedly pacific Muslims who either silently or openly support the harsh punishments by orthodox Sharia in our modern days is far greater than Jews or Christians who support these anachronic, violent passages!

  • KentonF

    We really should stop using the word “Fundamentalism” and call it what it ACTUALLY is…Authoritarianism. All forms of authoritarianism are deadly, whether they are religious, political, economic, or social. When people as individuals or groups force others to live a particular way people have inevitably died.

    • Libertybelle

      So if someone wants to rape a friend or loved one of yours, will you stop them from exercising their “liberty”? Or will you force them to stop?

  • Dan Arnold

    The three Abrahamic religions are the bloodiest of all major religions. Abraham was even called to kill his own son and tried to murder him at God’s command. This is a very dangerous religious tradition and it is ridiculous for any one of them, whether Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, to sit back and accuse one of the other two as barbaric. The truth is that all three of these religions were born at a time when man was more tribal, barbaric, and murderous. Fortunately for most of the world, our cultures have matured past this horrible God of revenge, violence, jealousy, hatred, and genocide. It is long past time to let such ancient man made religious nonsense die out and be replaced by secular justice.

    • Libertybelle

      If you are going to pretend you believe Hebrew Scriptures are true, then you are going to have to go all the way with the entire whole text and pretend all of it is true. Or else you have to sit down and shut up for being irrational. Because if Abraham killed his son, Jehovah could resurrect him according to the scripture you pretend is true only for the sake of judging and criticizing it.

  • Libertybelle

    Jenkins makes George Bush look like an amateur cherry picker.

    Will Jenkins believe Saul was told to exterminate women and children, but he will not believe a messiah was to come and has come to save sinners? Fat chance it seems. He wants his cherry cake and to eat it ? He will believe Saul slaughtered but won’t believe Christ saves sinners? Picky picker he is.

    God does not speak to Kings through the holy prophets at this time in history and for the past 2000 years or so. He speaks through His son (the word) in the scriptures. So there is no way that the church would massacre anyone in a God’s name except sinfully so. Saul was King of Israel and no Christian has ever been King of Israel. So any Christians killing others like Saul did are doing so in violation of scripture. God only speaks through the prophets to Kings of Israel IN Israel, not the King of England or elsewhere outside of Israel. There isn’t even a tabernacle or a temple. Certainly not the one commanded specifically in the very scripture Jenkins sometimes suggests are factual.

    Jenkins stands on scripture to tell us about Saul, and then he jumps off scripture when it teaches that the written word of God is all the directives we have today? And even that is not verbal communication. So no mass murder by Christians would have come from the mouth of God to a Christian prophet. Ever.

    On the otherhand Muslims disobey Allah when they do not fight. Mohammad chided them for it in the Koran.

    And, by the way, who were the people Saul was supposed to kill? They were monsters. They burned their infants on a brazen alter of their Baal worship. They murdered babies and buried them in the foundation of a new home for good luck. Their religion included temple prostitutes, pornography, bestiality, homosexuality, sex with family members, and coerced nudity. Perhaps all this is okay with Jenkins? How would Jenkins suggest one stop such a civilization?

    None of that debauching was tolerated in Jewish law. I guess that makes them the bad guys.

    And did not a God just previously nearly wipe out the human race through a global flood on account of similar deplorable conditions?

    What’s a God to do besides exterminate the whole race of mankind?

    They must have been disease ridden too. Also, Jenkins appears to have missed this cherry: the Canaanites were free to leave the territory ahead of Israel’s army. Does Jenkins think they should have continued to abide there to commit their sexual depravities and mass murder infanticide? Maybe murder really doesn’t bother him? Maybe murdering infants and having sex with animals is just peachy for Jenkins if its a chance to condemn the Bible?

    And what did God do when the Children of Israel embraced these same depraved Canaanite practices? Applaud? Nope, He sent them into brutal slavery. Did Jenkins miss that cherry too while he believes some things in scripture and not the rest?

    What does Jenkins think of Mohammad having sex with a little girl when he was well past middle age? And what does he think of Mohammed trafficking in female sex slaves and the Koran and Muslims for over a millennia sanctifying it?

    And Christ never having done either of these deplorable acts? What about that cherry? And how is it Islamic lands have had slavery up to modern times? Is it not because of Mohammad and the sanctification of it by the Koran to this very day? And the only reason slavery. Is not fully practiced today by the Muslim world is because they shamefully hide the practice because of western condemnation of their sanctified evil?

    Get the caliphate and weak opposition to Islam’s political hegemony, and the devout Islamic world will return to the slavery, kiddie sex, violence, and robbery taught by Mohammed.

  • Bryan Geist

    Kris Kuksi – How and why can you twist the truth as you have? PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the ‘problem’ – by instigating conflict by using lies and out-of-context quotes to deceptively make your point. NOWHERE in the Bible does it command Christians to go and murder those that do not accept Christ.

    Please give me current examples of Christian Fundamentalists that kill in the name of Jesus?

    Your examples are laughable and barely worthy of a response. I’ll just say this – read it context. In no way, shape or form is this a commandment.
    From ……

    Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

    The Quran:

    Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” (Translation is from the Noble Quran)

    Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

    PLEASE TELL me how you come to this conclusion sir?

  • I James

    Whats all this BS about a new covenant? Obviously these fanatics have never actually read their bibles. especially the New Testament, unlike many of us atheists. Mathew 5:17-18 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18″For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…”

    Now that is unambiguous. You Christians can not change one iota of the Old Testament Laws.

    Total bloody hypocrites and cherry pickers.

  • jim

    you are the dumbest ass ever

  • Malinda Wilson Smith

    This is BS. Christians are not the religion mass murdering people who won’t accept their religion.

  • AdaLovelace

    >>> El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism. <<<

    When you think about the 1 million or more civilians in the Middle East that have died as a result of wars conducted by the U.S. and its allies over the past few decades, I'd say that is a pretty good reason for a devout Muslim to wage jihad, don't you?

  • Ron Holt

    This is the most absurdly ridiculous one-sided pile of feces I have ever read.

  • Marilyn Harrison

    Liberal propaganda at it’s best!! Jesus Christ said “love your enemies, do good to those who despitefully use you”. NOWHERE in the Old or New Testament will you find ANYTHING that says it’s okay to rape little girls, have sex slaves, marry little girls as young as 8 years old, stone a woman to death for driving a car, or murder your 6 year old daughter because her head scarf blew off during lunch. One man cut off his wife’s nose because she objected to him marrying a six year old. He said he was within his ‘rights” as a muslim. One boy killed his sister because four raving lunatic muslim men broke into HER house and raped her. She was “spoiled”. According to their “book” it’s okay to have sex with a goat IF you kill the goat afterward. There are many many other atrocities that Islam says is their RIGHT!!! What kind of socialist pig are you?? ALL muslims live by the same book, the “good” ones and the radical ones. The radicals do the killing and beheading and burning and the “good” ones cheer them on from the sidelines. Islam is not a religion. Just because an orphan boy in the sixth century took parts of the Jewish religion and parts of the Christian religion and made up his OWN stories and preached them as though they were gospel, that does NOT make it a religion. It IS a Satanic cult that focuses on sex. Everything in their method includes sex with people and animals. If you are a man and you die for Mohammed, you get “72 virgins” in Heaven. If you are a woman and die for Mohammed, you get “a penis that never bends”. These people are not just misguided religious zealots. They are savage, mentally deranged, and TOTALLY incompatible with our country and our culture. They are still living in the sixth century!! They hate everybody except muslims, and are always mad about something and everything offends them. They ALL need to GO HOME to their sand dunes and mountains where their insanity will hurt only them. The United States should be a “muslim FREE zone”………

  • noel wideberg

    True irony to use democracy to get sharia!!!!!
    The truth!
    The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
    The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
    The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
    The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
    The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
    The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
    The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
    The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
    The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
    The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
    The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
    The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
    The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
    The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
    The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Musiims
    The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
    The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
    The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
    The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
    The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
    The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
    The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
    The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
    The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
    The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims’
    Think of it:
    Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
    Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
    Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
    Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
    Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
    Confusians living with Baha’is = No Problem
    Baha’is living with Jews = No Problem
    Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
    Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
    Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
    Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
    Hindus living with Baha’is = No Problem
    Baha’is living with Christians = No Problem
    Christians living with Jews = No Problem
    Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
    Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
    Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
    Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
    Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
    Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
    Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
    Muslims living with Christians = Problem
    Muslims living with Jews = Problem
    Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
    Muslims living with Baha’is = Problem
    Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
    Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
    **********SO THIS LEAD TO *****************
    They’re not happy in Gaza
    They’re not happy in Egypt
    They’re not happy in Libya
    They’re not happy in Morocco
    They’re not happy in Iran
    They’re not happy in Iraq
    They’re not happy in Yemen
    They’re not happy in Afghanistan
    They’re not happy in Pakistan
    They’re not happy in Syria
    They’re not happy in Lebanon
    They’re not happy in Nigeria
    They’re not happy in Kenya
    They’re not happy in Sudan
    ******** So, where are they happy? **********
    They’re happy in Australia
    They’re happy in England
    They’re happy in Belgium
    They’re happy in France
    They’re happy in Italy
    They’re happy in Germany
    They’re happy in Sweden
    They’re happy in the USA & Canada
    They’re happy in India
    They’re happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they blame? Not Islam… Not their leadership… Not themselves… THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!! And they want to change the countries they’re happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will be get hammered
    Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
    AND A LOT MORE!!!!!!!
    Think about it…….. frown emoticon 20 signs that psychopath Muslims do:
    1] Kill any one who insults Islam or Moham-mad. (Koran.33;57-61).
    2) Kill all Muslims who leave Islam. (Koran.2;217/4;89/Bukhari.9;84-57).
    3) Koran can not be doubted. (Koran.2;1).
    4) Islam is the only acceptable religion. (Koran.3;85).
    5) Muslims must fight (jihad) to non-Muslims, even if they don’t want to. (Koran.2;216).
    6) We the non-Muslims are pigs and apes. (Koran. 2;62-65/Koran.5;59-60/Koran.7;166).
    7) We the non-Muslims cannot be friends with Muslims. (Koran.5;51).
    8) We the non-Muslims sworn enemies of Muslims and Islam. (Koran.4;101).
    9) We the non-Muslims can be raped as sex slave. (Koran.4;3 & 24/5;89/23;5/33;50/58;3/70;30).
    10) We the non-Muslims the vilest of creatures deserving no mercy. (Koran.98;6).
    11) Muslim must terrorized us (non-Muslims). (Koran.8;12 &59-60/ Bukhar

  • noel wideberg

    God is merciful…He commanded that the demonic polluted DNA bloodline that Satan developed through fallen angels to be wiped out…those who got the command failed and that is why we have this Muslim terror today. GET EDUCATED ISLAM IS DEMONIC

  • Hassan Nasrallah

    I will add.. it’s not only all religions, but also all racial and national identities… as well as greed and lust for domination….

  • ocelot1234


  • Nonbeliever

    The Problem Isn’t ALL Religious Fundamentalism… It’s ALL Religion.

  • nice article about islam i read this
    Wazifa for job
    Nazra tul Quran Course

  • daveme7

    I have to ask-what fundamentalists? People love painting with a very broad brush whether it was factually true or not. The point is you will not fund very many Christian Fundamentalists to level that charge too. Oh yes-Westboro. Most fundamentalists would repudiate Westboro Baptist church. If one bothered to look at Wikipedia pr do a simple Google search, they would figure out that Christian Fundamentalism started in the late 19th and earlier 20th century. So I ask again, what fundamentalists? Well Jim Jones was not a fundamentalist and neither was Charles Manson. Quite a few of us view Seventh Day Adventists as a cult already-and even they repudiated David Koresh and his Branch Davidians. Yes, heaven as a word and concept is in the scriptures, but do not think anyone tried making Heaven’s Gate as a fundamentalist sect. As far as Mormons-same as SDA-most of us consider them a cult(more so than Seventh Day Adventists) and just like the Adventists-they reject Mormon fundamentalism.

    Do you know who Gerard Kittel is? He was the general editor of a very scholarly work called, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament(TDNT for short). Many theologians left when they saw what was going on between Jews and Nazi’s. Kittel did not. Could not talk him into it. Offered him their theological chairs at Oxford and Harvard and he turned them down. They eventually took the work away from his and found someone else to be the general editor. Am trying to figure out how you could lay the genocidal crimes against Jews in the lap of Christians?

    Do you know what Shintoism is? It is basically the religion of Japan-especially something they went by when they attacked Pearl Harbor and were guilty of quite a bit of genocide themselves (rape of Nanking). So do we lay the guilt of what those soldiers did before we even entered the war-do we make the Japanese citizens of today culpable for something they were not even alive for?

  • Omnis Odium

    There is now an attempted terrorist attack every 84 hours in Europe.
    Totally comparable to the crusades.

    By the way, the “fundamentalists” you speak of, are the only ones not lying about what the Qur’an, Sahih and Hasan Hadith, the tafsirs, all say. It’s not that hard to learn about these things, and you’ll quickly realize, that the only people not full of shit, are Ash Sheikh family in Saudi Arabia, the so-called “Wahhabiyya”, despite them and Qatar being the ONLY Hanbali states in existence, the OLDEST of the fiqhs and founded BEFORE al Tabari was even born.

    I’m sorry, but you’re demonstrably wrong about Islam.
    It does not mean Muslims are bad, but you’re clearly ignorant on the subject.

  • Stu

    You gotta love the left. Islamists are murdering, raping, and blowing things up, so… lets’s blame the Christians and Jews. They are worse. Good thing we have the media, otherwise people with the brain power to come up with this junk would be unemployed.