“You’re Either With Us Or You’re Against Us” Version 2.0

War Hawks Pretend that Questioning What’s Happening In Ukraine Means You’re a Putin Supporter

Liberals correctly mocked Bush when he said of the Iraq war and the war on terror: “You’re either with us or you’re against us.”

After all, such a black-and-white approach cuts off the ability to think, to look at the facts, and to address complexity.

But the government and mainstream media is doing exactly the same thing in regards to Ukraine.  In essence, they’re saying:

You either support without question the new Ukrainian government – including military assistance from the U.S. and NATO –  or you’re with Putin.

As former Associated Press and Newsweek reporter Robert Parry writes:

The demonization of Putin in the Western media has been so total that anyone who dares question the most extreme interpretations of his behavior is denounced as a “Putin apologist.” Indeed, any attempt to present a nuanced narrative of what has happened in Ukraine is dismissed as somehow promoting Russian imperialism or spreading Russian propaganda.

This oppressive “group think” has, in turn, made formulating any rational policy toward Russia and Ukraine politically impossible in Official Washington.

In the run up to the Iraq war, millions of Americans pointed out that Saddam Hussein might be an awful tyrant, but the “weapons of mass destruction” claims were false and so we shouldn’t plunge headlong into a disastrous war. (The protests against the Iraq war were the largest protests in history, and yet the politicians plowed ahead with the disastrous war and refused to listen to the facts … or the will of the people.)

Millions of patriotic Americans are now saying the same thing about Ukraine.  We’re saying:

  • Ukraine is complicated:  the East and Crimean South which were previously part of the Soviet Union support Russia,while most of those living in the Western region of Ukraine despise Russia
  • Putin might be an awful tyrant, but there’s no evidence that he’s trying to take over the world

We loyal Americans who were born and raised in the US are not secret Putin apologists, just as we were not closet Saddam supporters.

But we can’t afford any more disastrous wars … and we should stay the h@ll out of conflicts which do not directly threaten the security of the United States.

That actually makes us patriotic Americans … the Founding Fathers  said that America should not get involved in foreign entanglements.

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  • Early on, rightwing “news” (FOX, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc…) was saying Putin was a “MAN” and Obama is a “wimp” for not attacking Russia. Which gets the Dittohead base all pining for war.

  • Dee

    If someone is morally opposed to war and believes in the Right of Freedom of Conscience, what possible difference could the merits of a war, pro or con, or the relative virtue, or lack thereof, of the participants make?

    Are there non disastrous wars? Are there affordable wars? How can an individual’s disposition of their own sacred conscience possibly make one either a patriotic or unpatriotic American?

    The Horrors of Communism lasted much longer and killed many more people than the Horrors of Nazism in the Ukraine. People tend to hold the opposite political views of their oppressors. Many see the Progressive Socialist movement if the United States as a reaction to the perceived evils of Capitalism, The mass appeal of both the KKK and the Communist Party during the Great Depression here in the States, similarly.

    I ran across this a few months ago .. I really think it is worth watching http://www.flixxy.com/ukraine-talent-sand-animation.htm about 8 and a half minutes long

  • FVS

    And conversely there has been a sycophantic love fest for Putin in the “alternative” media. Anyone who dare say that the Ukrainian people have legitimate grievances with and an understandable desire to be free of the Russians is quickly labeled a fascist sympathizer or an Obamabot.

  • You right! I was considered a Putin supporter by a fake conservative yesterday!

  • Now there is a reason our gov is involved in this Ukrainian endeavor, just as their was one for the Iraq endeavor, just because it happens to be the *same* reason doesn’t mean it’s the wrong reason now does it? Yes, yes it does on both counts. ( I was afraid folks might not see my irony)
    President Putin currently has an agreement with Egypt and a pipeline to there.
    President Putin currently(or his country/companies) have contracts with Iran to build their next two nuclear reactors (no, not heavy water)
    President Putin currently has signed a law, to build their own Visa/MC establishment to ensure his business’ will continue to operate with or without sanctions.(gotta admire that)
    Russia currently has a Rail Road that goes through North Korea and enables his country to trade beyond, and to travel through North Korea at will.
    China and Russia have excellent Relations as does Russia and the Middle East.
    America wants to drill oil, and provide routes for Canada’s oil to ship / sell to the EU.
    If Russia does not have a way to get the oil/gas to the EU which is economically viable, and their prices would have to be increased, then of course the EU will be looking for other people to purchase this from. EU means specifically Germany since it’s the only country with any money, and whom you’ve noted has been quite quiet during the Crimea incident.

    Now, to top that off, Shell Oil ( one other too, They actually have more leased drillable land in Russia than they do in the US) has drilling rights for the Black Sea, Drilling Rights / Royalties they will be paying whom for? The Western Part of Ukraine has the lest resources, lest manufacturing than the eastern part (Crimea). The Western Part doesn’t want the Eastern part to go back to being a part of Russia because they will loose money. BUT they have been loosing money and just defaulted on a loan of 15 billion to Russia for good/services received in the past years.

    This “popular democratmovement” (WSJ titled it that) took the democratically elected president out of office by gunpoint. No Elections, No Hearings, No nothing, then the first thing they did was to release the previous Madam President from jail, who had been put there by the people after trial because she’d been found to have embezzled enormous amounts of money from the government/people of Ukraine. The president who had been removed from gun point was the one to ensure she was held for trial.

    I’m not saying that Russia is Better than the US, I don’t think there is a comparison to make. Because I say something positive about one country, that doesn’t make my country worse. imho, there’s little I could do that would make anything but my own life worse. I think Wall Street has seen to that.

    Russia has worked long and hard after a
    1. mass exodus of their best and brightest at the fall of communism
    2. Worked extremely hard to take broken dilapidated government resources and have completely turned that around in the last 14 years.
    3. They have in a short 14 years gone from a poverty stricken country to a World leader once again.

    They have every reason to be proud, what has America done in the last 15 years?

    • I forgot to mention that until an Alaska Senator was shown on a broadcast one evening talking about how Americans need to take advantage of the current markets and export crude since we would soon be producing more than Egypt, I hadn’t put 2 and 2 together. But when she was talking about this, something just clicked, and her comment about how President Obama could sign an executive order lifting the ban on exporting crude really got me to thinking.

      here I thought it was a drone base we wanted to put in Crimea before that little revelation. At a time when we’ve been told how scarce and in demand this ‘resource’ of crude oil is, that our prices by these corporations have more than tripled in 4 decades and our wages have not increased, although their profits have also more than tripled.. and all this is over oil again.. makes me want to Puke that our government or any other would take a life over something so stupid.
      ( oh, and I’m a President Obama Supporter, worked as a volunteer on his campaigns, work as an volunteer advocate now. ) But that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything my government does. I can disagree with their stance on this issue without thinking he’s weak or a terrible president. however, I do think our government is seriously lacking a GOOD International Policies Person, and President Obama’s strongest suites are focusing on Home, and putting our people to work.