The REAL Fukushima Danger

The Real Problem …

The fact that the Fukushima reactors have been leaking huge amounts of radioactive water ever since the 2011 earthquake is certainly newsworthy.  As are the facts that:

But the real problem is that the idiots who caused this mess are probably about to cause a much bigger problem.

Specifically, the greatest short-term threat to humanity is from the fuel pools at Fukushima.

If one of the pools collapsed or caught fire, it could have severe adverse impacts not only on Japan … but the rest of the world, including the United States.   Indeed, a Senator called it a national security concern for the U.S.:

The radiation caused by the failure of the spent fuel pools in the event of another earthquake could reach the West Coast within days. That absolutely makes the safe containment and protection of this spent fuel a security issue for the United States.

Nuclear expert Arnie Gundersen and physician Helen Caldicott have both said that people should evacuate the Northern Hemisphere if one of the Fukushima fuel pools collapses. Gundersen said:

Move south of the equator if that ever happened, I think that’s probably the lesson there.

Former U.N. adviser Akio Matsumura calls removing the radioactive materials from the Fukushima fuel pools “an issue of human survival”.

So the stakes in decommissioning the fuel pools are high, indeed.

But in 2 months, Tepco – the knuckleheads who caused the accident – are going to start doing this very difficult operation on their own.

The New York Times reports:

Thousands of workers and a small fleet of cranes are preparing for one of the latest efforts to avoid a deepening environmental disaster that has China and other neighbors increasingly worried: removing spent fuel rods from the damaged No. 4 reactor building and storing them in a safer place.

The Telegraph notes:

Tom Snitch, a senior professor at the University of Maryland and with more than 30 years’ experience in nuclear issues, said  “[Japan officials] need to address the real problems, the spent fuel rods in Unit 4 and the leaking pressure vessels,” he said. “There has been too much work done wiping down walls and duct work in the reactors for any other reason then to do something….  This is a critical global issue and Japan must step up.”

The Japan Times writes:

In November, Tepco plans to begin the delicate operation of removing spent fuel from Reactor No. 4 [with] radiation equivalent to 14,000 times the amount released by the Hiroshima atomic bomb. …. It remains vulnerable to any further shocks, and is also at risk from ground liquefaction. Removing its spent fuel, which contains deadly plutonium, is an urgent task…. The consequences could be far more severe than any nuclear accident the world has ever seen. If a fuel rod is dropped, breaks or becomes entangled while being removed, possible worst case scenarios include a big explosion, a meltdown in the pool, or a large fire. Any of these situations could lead to massive releases of deadly radionuclides into the atmosphere, putting much of Japan — including Tokyo and Yokohama — and even neighboring countries at serious risk.

CNBC points out:

The radioactive leak at Japan’s Fukushima nuclear plant is far from under control and could get a lot worse, a nuclear energy expert, who compiles the annual “World Nuclear Industry Status Report” warned.

***

The big danger – and it was identified by Japan’s atomic energy commission – is if you lose water in one of the spent fuel pools and you get a spent fuel fire.

CNN reports:

[Mycle Schneider, nuclear consultant:]  The situation could still get a lot worse. A massive spent fuel fire would likely dwarf the current dimensions of the catastrophe and could exceed the radioactivity releases of Chernobyl dozens of times. First, the pool walls could leak beyond the capacity to deliver cooling water or a reactor building could collapse following one of the hundred  of aftershocks. Then, the fuel cladding could ignite spontaneously releasing its entire radioactive inventory.

Reuters notes:

The operator of Japan’s crippled Fukushima nuclear plant is preparing to remove 400 tons of highly irradiated spent fuel from a damaged reactor building, a dangerous operation that has never been attempted before on this scale.

Containing radiation equivalent to 14,000 times the amount released in the atomic bomb attack on Hiroshima 68 years ago, more than 1,300 used fuel rod assemblies packed tightly together need to be removed from a building that is vulnerable to collapse, should another large earthquake hit the area.

Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) is already in a losing battle to stop radioactive water overflowing from another part of the facility, and experts question whether it will be able to pull off the removal of all the assemblies successfully.

“They are going to have difficulty in removing a significant number of the rods,” said Arnie Gundersen, a veteran U.S. nuclear engineer and director of Fairewinds Energy Education, who used to build fuel assemblies.

The operation, beginning this November at the plant’s Reactor No. 4, is fraught with danger, including the possibility of a large release of radiation if a fuel assembly breaks, gets stuck or gets too close to an adjacent bundle, said Gundersen and other nuclear experts.

That could lead to a worse disaster than the March 2011 nuclear crisis at the Fukushima plant, the world’s most serious since Chernobyl in 1986.

No one knows how bad it can get, but independent consultants Mycle Schneider and Antony Froggatt said recently in their World Nuclear Industry Status Report 2013: “Full release from the Unit-4 spent fuel pool, without any containment or control, could cause by far the most serious radiological disaster to date.”

***

The utility says it recognizes the operation will be difficult but believes it can carry it out safely.

Nonetheless, Tepco inspires little confidence. Sharply criticized for failing to protect the Fukushima plant against natural disasters, its handling of the crisis since then has also been lambasted.

***

The process will begin in November and Tepco expects to take about a year removing the assemblies, spokesman Yoshikazu Nagai told Reuters by e-mail. It’s just one installment in the decommissioning process for the plant forecast to take about 40 years and cost $11 billion.

Each fuel rod assembly weighs about 300 kilograms (660 pounds) and is 4.5 meters (15 feet) long. There are 1,331 of the spent fuel assemblies and a further 202 unused assemblies are also stored in the pool, Nagai said.

***

Spent fuel rods also contain plutonium, one of the most toxic substances in the universe, that gets formed during the later stages of a reactor core’s operation.

***

“There is a risk of an inadvertent criticality if the bundles are distorted and get too close to each other,” Gundersen said.

He was referring to an atomic chain reaction that left unchecked could result in a large release of radiation and heat that the fuel pool cooling system isn’t designed to absorb.

“The problem with a fuel pool criticality is that you can’t stop it. There are no control rods to control it,” Gundersen said. “The spent fuel pool cooling system is designed only to remove decay heat, not heat from an ongoing nuclear reaction.”

The rods are also vulnerable to fire should they be exposed to air, Gundersen said. [The pools have already boiled due to exposure to air.]

***

Tepco has shored up the building, which may have tilted and was bulging after the explosion, a source of global concern that has been raised in the U.S. Congress.

***

The fuel assemblies have to be first pulled from the racks they are stored in, then inserted into a heavy steel chamber. This operation takes place under water before the chamber, which shields the radiation pulsating from the rods, can be removed from the pool and lowered to ground level.

The chamber is then transported to the plant’s common storage pool in an undamaged building where the assemblies will be stored.

[Here is a visual tour of Fukushima's fuel pools, along with graphics of how the rods will be removed.]

Tepco confirmed the Reactor No. 4 fuel pool contains debris during an investigation into the chamber earlier this month.

Removing the rods from the pool is a delicate task normally assisted by computers, according to Toshio Kimura, a former Tepco technician, who worked at Fukushima Daiichi for 11 years.

“Previously it was a computer-controlled process that memorized the exact locations of the rods down to the millimeter and now they don’t have that. It has to be done manually so there is a high risk that they will drop and break one of the fuel rods,” Kimura said.

***

Corrosion from the salt water will have also weakened the building and equipment, he said.

And if an another strong earthquake strikes before the fuel is fully removed that topples the building or punctures the pool and allow the water to drain, a spent fuel fire releasing more radiation than during the initial disaster is possible, threatening about Tokyo 200 kilometers (125 miles) away.

ABC Radio Australia quotes  an expert on the situation (at 1:30):

Richard Tanter, expert on nuclear  power issues and professor of international relations at the University of Melbourne:

***

Reactor Unit 4, the one which has a very large amount of stored fuel in its fuel storage pool, that is sinking. According to former prime Minister Kan Naoto, that has sunk some 31 inches in places and it’s not uneven. This is really not surprising given what’s happened in terms of pumping of water, the aftermath of the earthquake and the tsunami, the continuing infusions of water into the groundwater area. This is an immediate problem, and if it is not resolved there is an extraordinary possibility we really could be back at March 2011 again because of the possibility of a fission accident in that spent fuel pond in Unit No. 4.

Xinua writes:

Mitsuhei Murata, a former Japanese ambassador to Switzerland has officially called for the withdrawalof Tokyo’s Olympic bid, due to the worsening crisis at Fukushima, which experts believe is not limited to storage tanks, but also potential cracks in the walls of the spent nuclear fuel pools.

Japan Focus points out:

The spent-fuel pool … was damaged by the earthquake and tsunami, and is in a deteriorating condition. It remains vulnerable to any further shocks, and is also at risk from ground liquefaction.

***

If a fuel rod is dropped, breaks or becomes entangled while being removed, possible worst case scenarios include a big explosion, a meltdown in the pool, or a large fire.

***

This is literally a matter of national security – another mistake by TEPCO could have incredibly costly, even fatal, consequences for Japan.

Like Pulling Cigarettes Out of a Crumpled Pack

Fuel rod expert Arnie Gundersen – a nuclear engineer and former senior manager of a nuclear power company which manufactured nuclear fuel rods – recently explained the biggest problem with the fuel rods (at 15:45):

I think they’re belittling the complexity of the task. If you think of a nuclear fuel rack as a pack of cigarettes, if you pull a cigarette straight up it will come out — but these racks have been distorted. Now when they go to pull the cigarette straight out, it’s going to likely break and release radioactive cesium and other gases, xenon and krypton, into the air. I suspect come November, December, January we’re going to hear that the building’s been evacuated, they’ve broke a fuel rod, the fuel rod is off-gassing.

***

I suspect we’ll have more airborne releases as they try to pull the fuel out. If they pull too hard, they’ll snap the fuel. I think the racks have been distorted, the fuel has overheated — the pool boiled – and the net effect is that it’s likely some of the fuel will be stuck in there for a long, long time.

In another interview, Gundersen provides additional details (at 31:00):

The racks are distorted from the earthquake — oh, by the way, the roof has fallen in, which further distorted the racks.

The net effect is they’ve got the bundles of fuel, the cigarettes in these racks, and as they pull them out, they’re likely to snap a few. When you snap a nuclear fuel rod, that releases radioactivity again, so my guess is, it’s things like krypton-85, which is a gas, cesium will also be released, strontium will be released. They’ll probably have to evacuate the building for a couple of days. They’ll take that radioactive gas and they’ll send it up the stack, up into the air, because xenon can’t be scrubbed, it can’t be cleaned, so they’ll send that radioactive xenon up into the air and purge the building of all the radioactive gases and then go back in and try again.

It’s likely that that problem will exist on more than one bundle. So over the next year or two, it wouldn’t surprise me that either they don’t remove all the fuel because they don’t want to pull too hard, or if they do pull to hard, they’re likely to damage the fuel and cause a radiation leak inside the building.  So that’s problem #2 in this process, getting the fuel out of Unit 4 is a top priority I have, but it’s not going to be easy. Tokyo Electric is portraying this as easy. In a normal nuclear reactor, all of this is done with computers. Everything gets pulled perfectly vertically. Well nothing is vertical anymore, the fuel racks are distorted, it’s all going to have to be done manually. The net effect is it’s a really difficult job. It wouldn’t surprise me if they snapped some of the fuel and they can’t remove it.

And Chris Harris – a, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator and engineer – notes that it doesn’t help that a lot of the rods are in very fragile condition:

Although there are a lot of spent fuel assemblies in there which could achieve criticality — there are also 200 new fuel assemblies which have equivalent to a full tank of gas, let’s call it that. Those are the ones most likely to go critical first.

***

Some pictures that were released recently show that a lot of fuel is damaged, so when they go ahead and put the grapple on it, and they pull it up, it’s going to fall apart. The boreflex has been eaten away; it doesn’t take saltwater very good.

Like Letting a Murderer Perform Brain Surgery On a VIP

What’s the bottom line?

Tepco has an abysmal track record:

  • Tepco just admitted that it’s known for 2 years that massive amounts of radioactive water are leaking into the groundwater and Pacific Ocean
  • Tepco’s recent attempts to solidify the ground under the reactors using chemicals has backfired horribly.  And NBC News notes: “[Tepco] is considering freezing the ground around the plant. Essentially building a mile-long ice wall underground, something that’s never been tried before to keep the water out. One scientist I spoke to dismissed this idea as grasping at straws, just more evidence that the power company failed to anticipate this problem … and now cannot solve it.”

Letting Tepco remove the fuel rods is like letting a convicted murderer perform delicate brain surgery on a VIP.

Top scientists and government officials say that Tepco should be removed from all efforts to stabilize Fukushima.   An international team of the smartest engineers and scientists should handle this difficult “surgery”.

The stakes are high …

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  • gozounlimited

    “no idea where the cores of the nuclear reactors are”…. I’m pretty sure the cores keep burning through the core of the earth. Maybe it will pop up on the other side of the earth like the magnetic triangles that pierce through the earth creating another magnetic pole…… or?

    • greenthinker2012

      The reactor cores are still where they have always been. Inspection has shown that they have eaten approx 3/8 inch into the bottoms of the 6 inch thick steel pressure vessels.
      Under these pressure vessels is a concrete foundation almost 30 feet thick.
      The core temperature is under 100 degrees Celsius.

      • Marushka France

        this article and predominant number of comments are nothing more than a pure case of bad propaganda

        “A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ”

        John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. President, 1917-1963

      • Marushka France

        this article and predominant number of comments are nothing more than a pure case of bad propaganda

        “A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ”

        John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. President, 1917-1963

  • Tonto

    Remember when the Space Shuttle Challenger blew up? Remember when the Space Shuttle Columbia came apart on re-entry? Reality is infinitely complex. And, even in the best of conditions, there are going to be anomalies, which by definition are events unpredicted by science. These “anomalies” are however, the only sure outcome of any complex scientific venture, given infinite complexity of reality.

    The problem here is, these are neither the best of conditions, nor are the potential casualties limited to a few astronauts who signed up for a dangerous mission.

    The scientists that designed these infernal nuclear power generation machines knew full-well of the danger. The governments that approved construction of these infernal nuclear power generation machines new full-well of the danger. The bankers that financed the construction of these infernal nuclear power generation machines knew full-well of the danger. They all knew of the possibility, that their actions included great risk, a risk that went far beyond just themselves.

    Our primary moral responsibility is not to detract from the lives of those who will follow us into this world. So we all know, what these scientists, these politicians and these bankers did, is incredibly immoral. Their actions were premeditated and immoral. The development of this technology and everything surrounding the development of this technology is clearly the most grave crime against humanity ever perpetrated, -to date-. The immoral, and premeditated nature of what has been done by these scientists, these politicians and these bankers makes anything that happened during WW II, seem pale and insignificant by comparison.

    Why has no one been arrested? Why have not all these criminals been rounded up? Why are there other Fukushima-like reactors still operating all over the world? Why? Because the scientists, politicians, and bankers are playing God. There is no other possible conclusion. The ethics of the empirical Enlightenment have let these criminals run totally berserk and rabid in our world.

    It is the exact same fault with empirical logic that is effecting what is happening in our economy, our culture and our foreign policy. We have a few categorical truths we can rely on to guide us into the future. Ignoring these categorical truths ensures a bad ending.

    The obvious conclusions we all can draw from the few categorical truths we have, preclude anyone from supporting a government that is -not- aggressively working to address the problem of these scientists, these bankers, and those in government who are behind this and other heinous atrocities that are so utterly rife in our world today.

    There is nothing grey about Fukushima.

    • Relentless

      They aren’t just arbitrarily playing God. They designed and built these reactors to provide fuel for their nuclear arsenal, providing power was a secondary benefit. Safety and longevity issues were a distant thought as the original designers probably assumed that a nuclear war was going to occur.

    • Dragonslayer

      There is a much larger dynamic going on here in regards to the US
      Government. Fukushima is the worst environmental crisis of our lifetime.
      I am an environmental engineer that has experience cleaning radioactive
      sites for the federal government as a contractor. When Fukushima had
      its multiple meltdowns, everyone instantly became an expert on nuclear
      meltdowns spending vast amount of energies trying to cull the masses
      into denial that there is nothing to worry about. Even EXPERT Obama
      expressed that there is nothing to fear as radiation would not reach the
      US. This is only a small part of the continued deception. There is a
      much larger smoke and mirrors happening on the world stage. IF Obama and
      its administration were truly concerned about the severity of the
      crisis, the US military would have seized the site under imminent domain
      and taken over mitigating the crisis under an international effort with
      our best scientists working on the problem around the world. Since
      Obama is a “constitutional lawyer” with very little science background,
      let’s think about what he did in March 2011. Obama and his
      administration decided it was a perfect time to distract the world with
      the invasion of Libya as led by France (leading the world in nuclear
      power production). This was a huge distraction as the MSM can only
      follow one major global story at a time. The Fukushima meltdowns were
      moved to the back burner of our consciousness as the Environmental
      Protection Agency moved forward with dismantling their air monitoring
      stations up a down the west coast finding that their were spikes of
      radioactive particles reaching our coastal areas within 5 days.

      Was it a coincidence that the US government decided to bomb Libya within
      a couple of weeks of the Fukushima crisis? Let’s look at recent events
      to make that determination. Now that Fukushima has reached a crisis
      point which can only be described as the “point of no return”, or “too
      little too late” stage, anyone following the alternative media knows
      that Fukushima is moving into a chaotic state where large amounts of
      radioactive water are being releasing on a regular basis as has never
      happened to the Pacific Ocean. So if my conspiracy theories are correct,
      what has the Obama administration been doing to distract us from this
      story which has a chance to bubble to the surface again? Wow, he has
      been on the verge of bombing Syria and starting WWIII!! Well what a
      coincidence! More smoke and mirrors so the masses keep the increasing
      radiation contamination of our atmosphere and ocean out of their minds.
      It would be my prediction that when Fukushima has its next major event
      like the collapse of its common spend fuel pool, WWIII will commence
      finally. Why not, the world will be going to hell at that point anyway,
      Right??? I guess Obama is just a fake environmentalist with all his
      worry about global warming. I have always said that we will not be
      around to worry about global warming when nuclear war and nuclear power
      will eradicate life long before any heating up of the planet.

      • Romi Elnagar

        I share your suspicions about the Libyan invasion and Syria, too. Also, another factor about LIbya may have been that Khadafi had enough gold in his vaults to make the Libyan dinar, and all of Africa, independent of the World Bank and the IMF.
        But, as so often happens, the attack on Libya several several useful purposes for The Empire, and certainly one of the most egregious was to divert attention from the Fukushima disaster.

      • Romi Elnagar

        I share your suspicions about the Libyan invasion and Syria, too. Also, another factor about LIbya may have been that Khadafi had enough gold in his vaults to make the Libyan dinar, and all of Africa, independent of the World Bank and the IMF.
        But, as so often happens, the attack on Libya several several useful purposes for The Empire, and certainly one of the most egregious was to divert attention from the Fukushima disaster.

      • Rosemary

        You make some excellent points, thank you. It is important to be able to think critically, and such skills are largely absent particularly in this empire. The amount of radioactive poison spewing into the ocean is deadly to the life there. Many are just too naive or are in denial–or both– about the immense planetary destruction unfolding from Fukushima. We are down wind from Los Alamos, and so much is happening up there. Many of those once-beautiful canyons are really dead zones, now. When the Las Conchas fire roared through up there, the above-ground plutonium stored under tarps became “big news.” Homo sapiens will leave a devastated planet with much of non-human life destroyed, & the process of evolution halted. To me, this is the greatest tragedy.

    • greenthinker2012

      The probability of failure for the space shuttles was well understood and entirely explainable with science. Reality is not infinitely complex. Reality is actually predictable.

      No one has died and no one will suffer illness from Fukushima radiation.
      That is a well understood fact. The science of Radiation Health Physics is well established and well understood. That is why scientists say that no injury will result from Fukushima.
      That is why no one has been arrested.
      Look up what UNSCEAR says about Fukushima. An international team of scientists has put together a clear report on the reality of the situation.

      • Marushka France

        FIVE (5) Tepco employees received a lethal dose at Fukushima Daiichi in the first 24 hours. I really do wish you’d read the NRC docs.

        UNSCEAR has been discredited as far as any real accuracy goes. It’s model has been proven to be inaccurate by 150 fold by European Committee on Radiate Risk.

        • greenthinker2012

          Not a single person has died from radiation exposure. Not a single one.
          If you have a credible source that says otherwise I would like to see it.

          • simonhhh

            NYTimes Experts: Fukushima is having bigger effect on environment than we expected, we don’t know what’s happening — Radioactive releases from plant spiking this year — “Worrisome problems”

          • simonhhh

            Greenthinker…is somehow connected to UNSCEAR….

            I worked it out…greenthinker was supporting or protecting them from public exposure!!!

            Dr. Alex Rosen, Medical Doctor and radiation specialist: There is now a much higher number of thyroid cancer cases than we expected….
            Narrator: According to Dr. Alex Rosen, there are various falsified estimations in the UNSCEAR [United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation] report….
            Professor Wolfgang Hoffman, professor of epidemiology at Geifswald University: It is certain that we will have an elevated level of cancer….
            Marc Molitor, journalist with Belgisher TV (Belgium): A certain member within UNSCEAR told me that the report was written to play down the consequences of the Fukushima nuclear accident. Moreover, he also said that the members pretend not to learn the lesson from Chernobyl. There was seemingly NO discussion on it…
            UNSCEAR Report: “No discernible increased incidence of radiation-related health effects are expected among exposed members of the public or their descendants. The most important health effect is on mental and social well-being”….which we know is bullshit…
            #####Some team members in UNSCEAR have migrated from and are colluding with IAEC supporting the nuclear industry world wide….

          • Rosemary Lowe

            Now you’ve got it–thanks for the clarification on this “greenthinker’s” real agenda.

          • greenthinker2012

            As usual, you accept a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever.
            When I look up the word “Gullible” in the dictionary your picture is shown.

          • simonhhh

            Title: ‘Welcome to Fukushima’ (2013)
            Director: Alain de Halleux

            Fukushima Mother: Then Yuka started to get panic attacks. She got headaches, stomach aches, sore throats… It would change every day. Shortly after around the end of April she would spend her days crying in here room. It all made me very nervous. Kento was edgy allo the time, too. […]

            Part III at 11:15 in (Watch the clip here)

            Fukushima Father: Perhaps she didn’t really know she was doing, but she made several attempts to jump from the first floor. She even tried to kill herself by dousing herself with petrol and setting it alight.

            Fukushima Mother: She led a normal life until March 11 last year, when there was the accident at the nuclear power plant. She can’t forgive herself for being this way. Every time she cries she asks, “Why did this nuclear disaster happen to us?”

            Key findings reported by selected mental health studies of Chernobyl-exposed children — A 25 Year Retrospective Review of the Psychological Consequences of the Chernobyl Accident, January 24, 2011:

            Lower IQ among exposed at age 6e7 years but not at 10e11 years (as reported for partial sample); exposed more childhood onset emotional disorders than controls. No thyroid doseeresponse association with IQ.

            Age 6-8 years: lower IQ among exposed; 45% of exposed and 29% of controls had high behaviour problem scores; significant correlation between radiation exposure and IQ (r ¼0.3).Age 9e10 years: 72% of exposed versus 28% of controls had ICD-10 psychiatric disorders; 74% versus 10% had abnormal EEG patterns.

            71% of exposed versus 34% of controls had psychiatric disorders; exposed had lower IQ and abnormal EEG; no differences on symptom scale completed by the mothers

            At 11 years, evacuees more lifetime depression (44.0% versus 29.7%), symptom scores, poor self-rated health (38.5% versus 28.2%), and 7 sick days in past year (54.5% versus 43.0%).At 19 years, evacuees more current Chernobylrelated PTSD (19.7% versus 7.5%), past year major depression (29.1% versus 18.8%), and high distress (26.8% versus 13.4%)

          • greenthinker2012

            Stress is a terrible thing. That is why hysterical fearmongers like you should be ashamed of yourselves.

          • simonhhh

            There was nothing hysterical about 1.2 MILLION deaths following Chernobyl….

            …….maybe some fear mongering was the order of the day!!!!!

          • greenthinker2012

            Maybe you just made the number up? Or maybe you are doing what the scientists have explicitly said should not be done with low dose exposure to radiation? They have said that one should definitely not extrapolate small doses across large populations. The numbers that are generated by doing so are meaningless.
            But for the sake of argument let’s do a rough calculation using your numbers…
            1.2 million deaths over 25 years = 48000 per year divided by the population of the planet of 6 billion is an increased chance of death of .000008 per year.
            Compare this to dying as a pedestrian .00002 per year ( 2.5 x greater)
            Drowning, fire, poisoning all about .00001per year. (1.25 x greater)
            These and many many other hazards are well characterized and easy to find so I just picked 4 for illustrative purposes.

            Maybe getting upset and running around as if Chernobyl was the end of the world is unjustified when compared to the many everyday hazards we face regularly without panicking and without using multiple exclamation marks at the end of each sentence.

          • Rosemary Lowe

            If you continue to practice delusional thinking, you might just experience some stress, as you deny reality. Stress, however, is no comparison to the environmental devastation wrought upon all planetary life because of Homo sapiens’ delusions.

          • greenthinker2012

            Agreed.
            The delusional thinking that nuclear power is the most dangerous source of power when actual reality shows otherwise, is delaying the transition off of fossil fuels.
            This delay is killing our planet.

          • greenthinker2012

            Rosemary, I have a serious question for you.
            How is a person to tell that they are delusional?
            We all filter input to favour our view of the world it is called confirmation bias.
            How should a person proceed when a statement is made that contradicts what they “know” is right?

          • Rosemary Lowe

            I suggest you ask your therapist.

          • greenthinker2012

            It was a serious question.
            You are obviously more interested in trying to be “clever”
            You must have a terribly insensitive bed side manner as a health care worker.

          • Rosemary Lowe

            The “terrible thing” is that myopic, delusional people get on blogs, downplaying the seriousness of a poison so powerful that it will destroy all planetary life. If thinking people cannot show grave concern, get emotional, and otherwise be very upset about what is happening to this beautiful Earth because of evil, arrogant humans, perhaps we are already dead. Dead and Dumb.

          • greenthinker2012

            Hysteria and delusion hurt people.
            Spreading fear with untruths like
            “a poison so powerful that it will destroy all planetary life”
            is simply immoral.

          • Rosemary Lowe

            It is not possible to change your thinking on this blog. Only time & Mother Nature will do that. The immoral aspect of nuclear power is that a small group of scientists (men), enamored with their perceived self-knowledge and superiority originally met and discussed development & unleashing the most immoral, destructive atomic energy devices known. They even called it “The Trinity.” They thought of themselves as Gods and even stated such. They then experimented with humans and animals who were placed in strategic spots near the first explosion, (still restricted) in New Mexico, to see what would happen. Some of the poor pigs were still alive, terribly burned,& suffering, and those films taken showed them thrown into trucks and taken away, probably to a laboratory to be further “studied.” As time went on, more reports came in regarding others (human & animal) who became sick, developed leukemia and other cancers. Later, came the next nuclear experiments, with the atomic explosions in Japan, affecting millions of human and non-human lives. Today, The Department of Labor runs a program for nuclear workers, who have multiple neoplasms, various types of leukemia and other terminal diseases related to working within the nuclear industry and uranium mines. Millions of humans and non-humans are suffering and dying because of nuclear exposure. As a professional who takes care of such people, I find your naivete or whatever your agenda, despicable and sad. I personally will not provide you with any more fodder to continue your misinformation on this blog. I think it best to ignore your statements.

          • greenthinker2012

            Wow Rosemary, you can’t even distinguish between nuclear weapons and civilian nuclear power.
            Just like when you fill your car with gasoline it is no different in your mind than napalming innocent villagers.
            Thanks for alerting me to what level of conceptual distinction you are operating with.
            If you work in the health care field, do you try and make a distinction between nuclear weapons and diagnostic nuclear medicine? Or is it all the same to you?

          • Rosemary Lowe

            Come on, “thinker” surely you know the connections between so-called “civilian” nuclear power and nuclear weapons? If you do not, perhaps you have been exposed to a little of that harmless radiation yourself?

          • greenthinker2012

            Which type of anti-nuclear protest are you attending? Is it an anti-nuclear medicine protest?
            I know people who are connected to the civilian nuclear power industry and they are not at all connected to the nuclear weapons industry. In fact our country doesn’t even have a nuclear weapons industry. There are also quite a number of other countries that have civilian nuclear power industries and do not have nuclear weapons. Your so called connection is a myth.
            If your protest is an anti-civilian-nuclear power protest then you are supporting the continued burning of fossil fuels. Projections show that the world will double or triple our fossil fuel use by the end of the century.
            Here is a link to a letter sent by leading climate scientists to the leaders of environmental groups calling for their support of nuclear power.

            http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/03/world/nuclear-energy-climate-change-scientists-letter/index.html

          • greenthinker2012

            Show some evidence.

          • simonhhh

            “A new and disturbing development” around Fukushima — Worrying claims of ‘cancer cluster’ emerging — Specialists deeply concerned…a new and disturbing development.

            Japan: The Next Wave — ABC’s Foreign Correspondent, Nov. 3, 2013:…. In a private children’s hospital well away from the no-go-zone, parents are holding on tight to their little sons and daughters….. Tests commissioned by the local authorities have discerned an alarming spike in the incidence of thyroid cancer in Fukushima children and while specialists and experts are reluctant to draw a definitive link between the tumours and the nuclear radiation they’re nonetheless deeply concerned. “The doctors in Fukushima say that it shouldn’t be coming out so soon, so it can’t be related to the nuclear accident. But that’s very unscientific, and it’s not a reason we can accept.” -AKIRA SUGENOYA Former Thyroid Surgeon & Chernobyl Volunteer. ….Now [North Asia Correspondent Mark Willacy] returns a final time to investigate worrying new claims a cancer cluster has developed around the radiation zone and the victims are children.

          • simonhhh

            Nuclear Expert: Fuel rods are “in a jumble” at Fukushima Unit 4 pool; Unclear if they are cracked — US pressing Japan on removal, fears terrorist activity at plant….
            Nov. 6, 2013: “Did you ever play pick up sticks?” asked a foreign nuclear expert who has been monitoring Tepco’s efforts to regain control of the plant. “You had 50 sticks, you heaved them into the air and than had to take one off the pile at a time. “If the pile collapsed when you were picking up a stick, you lost,” he said. “There are 1,534 pick-up sticks in a jumble in [sic] top of an unsteady reactor 4. What do you think can happen? I do not know anyone who is confident that this can be done since it has never been tried.” Even now, it is not clear whether any of the rods, containing transuranic and transplutonic elements, are cracked, he said. [...] Others have issued even more dire warnings, with Charles Perrow, a professor emeritus at Yale University, warning: “The radiation emitted from all these rods, if they are not continually cool and kept separate, would require the evacuation of surrounding areas, including Tokyo. Because of the radiation at the site, the 6,375 rods in the common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission and all of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years.”

          • greenthinker2012

            Charles Perrow is a sociology professor. The fact that you can’t even choose a reliable source for your information says it all.

        • K9Steve

          What’s the source of your information @marushkafrance:disqus? Where did you read/hear that 5 Tepco employees received a lethal does of radiation? Please share. Also, what do you mean by “inaccurate by 150 fold” with regard to UNSCEAR? It is not clear from your comments.

        • K9Steve

          What’s the source of your information @marushkafrance:disqus? Where did you read/hear that 5 Tepco employees received a lethal does of radiation? Please share. Also, what do you mean by “inaccurate by 150 fold” with regard to UNSCEAR? It is not clear from your comments.

      • stevefromohio

        Hey Greenthinker2012, do you work for the government as a paid mis-information source?

        The reason why I ask is that everything you have posted seems to support the Obama regime’s support for nuclear power.

        Folks, you have to take a lot of poster’s thoughts with a grain of salt. You never know where they are coming from. What amazes me is that you say that there is no illness from Fukushima radiation. That is not true. There already has been a massive uptick in cancers, radiation induced birth defects, plant deformation, animal deaths and other diseases in Japan due to the radiation.

        In the US, the International Journal of Health Services says that over 14,000 people have already died in the United States due to Fukushima. The US and Japanese governments have recently raised the GCS (generally considered safe) numbers for radiation because they don’t want people to panic.

        No one has been arrested for this criminal disaster because the corporations now own and control governments around the world. GE has built many of the very same nuclear reactors that were in use at Fukushima right here in the US. Most of those reactors are now having some major problems with safety. The ones in Ohio have leaked as have many in the US due to structural failures.

        It is the goal of the Obama regime to shut down coal and bring more dependence on nuclear. Germany is going to shut down all reactors by 2022. Belgium and many other countries are also going to go nuke free.

        Greenthinker2012, do you work for the Obama regime? Are you a paid mis information specialist that blogs on news sites for the purpose of propaganda? The reason why I ask is that your posts are so obtuse and full of non truths.

        The UNSCEAR is nothing more than a bunch of paid for bureaucrats that work for the UN and have no scientific community backing. They also support the idea of global warming that is a scheme by the very rich to tax the daylights out of humanity.

        • greenthinker2012

          Steve, you make the assumption that everyone on this blog is American.
          I agree that one should critically examine what is said on blogs.
          You make a bunch of assertions but have not backed them up.
          If you do provide back up for your assertions then we can examine the source and see if it is credible.
          I would be particularly interested to see your source for the 14000 purported deaths. The reason is that the amount of radiation that has reached North America is so small it is difficult to measure. It is swamped by the amount of radiation from my granite countertop in my kitchen.
          I have presented facts to you. These facts can be objectively verified.
          We should all try and make sure what we put forward is verifiably true. It is a difficult thing with the internet, but this is an important topic.
          Personal attacks and insinuations do not move the discussion forward and are the tools of a person who cannot win the argument with facts.

          • Romi Elnagar

            There has indeed been an increase in infant mortality rates on the US West Coast because of Fukushima. This has been documented by Joseph Mangano MPH and Janet Sherman MD at
            http://sfbayview.com/2011/is-the-increase-in-baby-deaths-in-the-northwest-u-s-due-to-fukushima-fallout-how-can-we-find-out/

            The reason that radiation reaching North America has not been documented is that THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN RADIATION MONITORS ON THE WEST COAST after Fukushima.

            http://www.fairewinds.org/content/fukushima-accident-severity-level-raised-7-gundersen-discusses-lack-us-radiation-monitoring-
            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/some-radiation-tracking-air-monitors-may-not-be-working-properly-epa-says.html

            I would like to know why, and if you sincerely want to understand the impact Fukushima is having, you should want to know why, too. If you really think the reason is simply because the government has run out of money, needs new air filters, etc. etc., I have a bridge to sell you.

          • greenthinker2012

            The authors’ statistical claims are critically flawed—if not deliberate mistruths.
            Only by explicitly excluding data from January and February were Sherman and Mangano able to froth up their specious statistical scaremongering.
            Picking only the data that suits your analysis isn’t science—it’s politics.

            Once the Govt reopens, go to the CDC website and look for yourself. Plot the infant mortality for the years before Fukushima. See how much variation there is from month to month. See how the average doesn’t change much from year to year.
            The monitoring of radiation is a waste of money. The amount of radiation is minuscule and of no concern. You should buy yourself a detector and do your own measurements. There is no need to depend on anyone else.

            If you believed the biased and dishonest interpretation of the infant mortality studies and did not spend the time to do even a basic comparison from previous years, then it is you who need to worry about being sold a bridge and indeed you ARE being sold a bridge. The bridge is called fear.

          • simonhhh

            03:31 PM EST on October 27th, 2013 | 16 comments
            Fukushima farmer sees 16 of his 30 horses die suddenly this year, mainly young ones — No disease, no parasitic worms, high cesium levels — “Daughter tried to commit suicide… Do you think it’s really okay with this situation in Japan?”

          • greenthinker2012

            The country suffered a devastating earthquake and tsunami that destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Entire cities were wiped off the map.
            People lost there homes, livelihoods, and family members.
            No I don’t think Japan is o.k. Radiation has not and will not cause any detectable levels of injury beyond that caused by fear.
            However, your adding to this stress level and misery by spouting imaginary dangers and spreading misinformation because you are too lazy to challenge your preconceptions is immoral.

          • Alethia

            It is not the scientific consensus

            You lie

          • greenthinker2012

            Could you be a bit more clear? In your opinion what am I lying about specifically?

          • greenthinker2012

            Both the UNSCEAR and the WHO disagree with you. These organizations are comprised of scientists from each country in the world who are chosen based on their expertise in their fields of study.

            They have each published reports that conclude there will be no detectable increase in cancers as a result of the radiological release.

            UNSCEAR Link:
            http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/fukushima.html

            quote:
            “there have been no health effects attributed to radiation exposure observed among workers, the people with the highest radiation exposures. To date, no health effects attributable to radiation exposure have been observed among children or any other member of the population;”

            WHO Link:
            http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/78218/1/9789241505130_eng.pdf

            quote:
            “The present results suggest that the increases in the incidence of human disease attributable to the additional radiation exposure from the Fukushima Daiichi NPP accident are likely to remain below detectable levels.”

            I am choosing to believe them over an internet commenter who provides no evidence.

            If you do have some evidence please share it.

          • Rosemary Lowe

            Your so-called “evidence” has been discredited, and unless you really are delusional, you would be aware of this. There is nothing more to say to you because you appear to be connected to the nuclear industry in some way.

          • greenthinker2012

            Show your evidence.

            I find it hard to believe that 100′s of scientists from every country on earth somehow are all conspiring to mislead us and that no other scientists looking at the data have spoken out.

            I find it even harder to believe that somehow you have discovered the truth.

            And of course simply because I don’t reinforce your fantasies you trot out the oldest argument on the internet that somehow I am connected to the nuclear industry.

          • Jason

            Einstein said, “nuclear power is a hell of a way to boil water” STOP NUCLEAR POWER! YOU SCIENTIST PHUCKS ARE ALL FOOLS, TO SMART FOR YOUR OWN DAMN GOOD.

          • greenthinker2012

            …Says Jason on a computer designed by an engineer and networked on the world wide web invented by a particle physicist at CERN. Jason, feel free to move into the wilderness and show us how happy you can be.

          • greenthinker2012

            The real problem at the moment is not modern nuclear power but is 18th century coal burning.

          • Jason

            Einstein said, “nuclear power is a hell of a way to boil water” STOP NUCLEAR POWER! YOU SCIENTIST PHUCKS ARE ALL FOOLS, TO SMART FOR YOUR OWN DAMN GOOD.

          • simonhhh

            “Nothing like this has ever been attempted” — Yale Professor: “All of humanity will be threatened for 1000s of years” if rods in Unit 4 pool touch and have nuclear reaction during removal process —
            Tepco: “Not clear” if fuel is already damaged??? you’ve got to be joking…right!!! like putting a car mechanic in charge of brain surgery at your local hospital…

          • Rosemary Lowe

            Thanks, simonhhh, for your comments. I just happened to see this: http://americablog.com/2013/09/risky-repair-fukushima-spill-15000x-radiation-hiroshima-85x-chernobyl.html This catastrophe is so beyond what humans can handle now, that some just crawl into their cave of denial, don’t you think? So many millions of lives, not just human lives, are suffering and dying because of this radioactive poison, and the multitude of other toxins we pour into this planet. We use this Earth as our sewer, and now it is backing up upon the biosphere. I feel so very, very sad for the non-humans who have done nothing to deserve this suffering. Keep up the great insightful comments!

  • jadan

    The international community is beginning to recognize that the disaster is a global issue. The climate change/global warming crowd bangs on pots and pans about future disasters and ignores the clear and present danger of Fukushima. Just wait until the radiation washes up on the west coast. By that time enough personal radiation detectors will have been sold so that a critical mass of public opinion will occur. Maybe it won’t be too late for the US military to do something useful for a change.

    • Honest Harry’s Used Cars

      “Maybe it won’t be too late for the US military to do something useful for a change.”

      Or maybe Mighty Mouse or Michael Rivero? No! No! I have it… This is all just a dream, “There’s no place like home. Click, click… There’s no place like home…”

      LoL Give the boy a cigar. He’s not old enough to smoke it, but it’ll make him forget how badly he missed the target with all three hoops.

    • EH

      Actually, Japan/Tokyo Electric/Tepco have been refusing international offers of help. I’m not sure if the Japanese have even responded to Russian offers of help. It wasn’t until last month that Tokyo Electric even asked for help. Still, all Tepco has done so far was to last week appoint an American advisor. Prime Minister Abe just said that the situation is “under control.” Pretty hard to fathom.

      • docbets

        It’s embedded in any corporate culture to not admit mistakes, even the gravest ones. So far as I understand it, Japanese culture has its own face saving elements. And many, many individuals the world over will not own up to error whether it came through carelessness, inadequacy or accident. It’s a recipe for the perpetuation of catastrophe.

    • greenthinker2012

      I support the idea that everyone should get there own radiation detector. Alternatively, a group of friends could all pitch in to buy one to share. They are not too expensive and they are a great way to discover how the world around us is naturally radioactive.
      Once people get a feel for the amount of radiation that we live with naturally everyday, they will be able to put the danger of Fukushima into perspective and realize that it poses no danger.

      • simonhhh

        “Nothing like this has ever been attempted” — Yale Professor: “All of humanity will be threatened for 1000s of years” if rods in Unit 4 pool touch and have nuclear reaction during removal process — Tepco: “Not clear” if fuel is already damaged

        • greenthinker2012

          Simonhhh you repeatedly quote this Yale sociology professor as if he is some sort of nuclear expert. It is important to critically examine whether a source of opinion is credible.

        • greenthinker2012

          Simonhhh you repeatedly quote this Yale sociology professor as if he is some sort of nuclear expert. It is important to critically examine whether a source of opinion is credible.

      • Gforce27

        “No danger?” Really, not even a little danger? When you say it poses “no” danger as opposed to “little” danger, or even saying that the danger is perhaps exaggerated, I have to wonder at the genuine nature of such a claim. Radioactivity does not pose “no danger.” We can argue all day long about how much danger it poses, but when you say it poses “no” danger, I am incredulous.

        • greenthinker2012

          You are grasping at straws. I choose to say no danger because at the levels of radiation we are discussing the danger is less than that posed by BBQing meat or drinking beer. Nothing is perfectly safe but the general public would accept that everyday level of danger as non-existent. However next time you are at a BBQ feel free to convince everyone that what they are doing is technically dangerous and if anyone disagrees you are free to be incredulous again.

          • Gforce27

            I don’t believe I am “grasping at straws.” The over all message you have been trying to portray here, is that radiation is perfectly safe and we have nothing to fear. Now, perhaps you are taking the easiest route to explaining the risk comparisons to other risks we take every day. Fine. However, the over all message throughout your comments makes it appear/sound like you think that there is no danger AT ALL from nuclear accidents, (or that it is comparable in risk to consuming barbeque) and that the threat from Fukushima is not just being exaggerated, but is practically NON-EXISTENT.

            If you’re argument was that the danger at Fukushima or any other Nuclear Reactor accident is over-exaggerated/overblown, I’d be a lot less skeptical of your arguments. However, that does not appear to me to be the case you are making. You seem to be arguing that Nuclear Energy is perfectly safe, and all radio-nuclides are equal to one another in terms of potential danger. This is why I am taking your arguments to task. If you didn’t mean to compare amounts in your last comment to me, why did you say that:

            “The same radiological amount of any isotope would be equally dangerous.Banana…not very dangerous. The same amount of Cs 137 or Pu 139 or U 235 would radiologically be the same…not very dangerous.”

            It very much appears by this statement that you believe that all radio-nuclides in similar amounts are equally “not very dangerous.” That is how someone who has no knowledge of the subject would read it.

            So, if I come off sarcastic, or incredulous, this is why. I do believe that you are vastly under-playing the danger of various forms of radiation, and I do not believe that Potassium 40 is in any way comparable to Plutonium or Strontium, and making those comparisons, in my opinion, is deeply disingenuous. I believe people would be far better served by not having the information simplified to the point that it isn’t actually accurate.

          • greenthinker2012

            My positive tone may be a reaction to the overwhelming panicked hyperventilating that seems to be the norm regarding Fukushima. Some people are even calling Fukushima an “Extinction Level Event”. It is in this context that my statements are being made.
            It is an oversimplification to say that all radiation is safe so I hope I have not said that. The dose and dose rate are important.
            I would say that the levels that the public have been exposed to at Fukushima are not dangerous. Comparable levels occur naturally in other parts of the world and the populations living in these areas for many generations show no increase in cancer or other radiation linked mortality.
            So yes I would say the danger is practically non-existent. This is in agreement with the WHO and UNSCEAR who say that there will be no detectable rise in cancer rates.
            My statements comparing isotopes said that if they are “radiologically similar amounts” that they pose a similar amount of danger. This is true because that is how dose rates are measured. If we are talking Sieverts then the energy level and interaction characteristics of the radiation with living tissue are factored into the measurements.
            I appreciate you not bringing Arnie and Helen into the conversation because they add nothing of value to the discussion.
            The type and amount of radiation do play a role in how dangerous an exposure is. This is certainly true for high doses. When we start getting into low exposures the LNT model is not consistently supported by data. My feeling is that there is a threshold below which there will be no measurable effect.
            I would like to hear why you believe Pu and Sr are different than K-40 in the danger they pose. Eg. is it because Sr is similar to Calcium and is absorbed into bones?
            Cheers

  • http://khanneasunztu.wordpress.com/ KhanneaSuntzu

    Ok, I am packing my bags. Where to?

    Maybe the US should retailliate against teh Japan and threaten it with nuclear, drone strikes against populated areas if the reactor catches fire and US interests are threatened.

    • greenthinker2012

      Maybe you should consider packing your bags and heading back to school.
      The amount of disinformation and distortion in this article is staggering.
      If you believe what has been written, you should brush up on your critical thinking skills.
      I am not trying to attack you, I just think that there are enough real things in the world to worry about and it would be good to be able to recognize and dismiss this article as the garbage it is and be less stressed overall.

    • greenthinker2012

      Maybe you should consider packing your bags and heading back to school.
      The amount of disinformation and distortion in this article is staggering.
      If you believe what has been written, you should brush up on your critical thinking skills.
      I am not trying to attack you, I just think that there are enough real things in the world to worry about and it would be good to be able to recognize and dismiss this article as the garbage it is and be less stressed overall.

      • Koyaanisqatsi

        Well, I was wondering, it did seem like cobbled together sound bites and stoking fears. It does have that malicious mistreatment of information quality characteristic of someone who enjoys spreading fear. Sick stuff. Thanks.

        • Marushka France

          this is called reality. see prior response. get educated, not numb with fear and not bullied away.

      • Marushka France

        KhanneaSuntzu is clearly making a political statement that has nothing to do with addressing this article.
        However, greenthinker2012, this article is not disinformation and distortion. The dire situation at Fukushima Daiichi, Japan, is threatening all life on the planet – three nuclear meltdowns, one of which emptied rather than melted down, #3 spent fuel pool apparently empty as well, and #4 is either precariously situated, or possibly already partially destroyed… it is definitely worthy of mainstream media,

        There is no solution for meltdowns… that scientists agree on. People cannot get close, it kills them very quickly and there is no machinery that can approach such highly radioactive material as the computer chips melt.

        We can do something about the situation as far as food and water supplies go, and for our individual health. Supplements for people can help block absorption of radionuclides (radioisotopes). Apportioned in 2 or 3 doses: 800mgCalcium, 350mg Magnesium, plus an array of minerals and antioxidants, for an adult. Half that for a 10 year old.
        Additionally, soil amendments can block absorption of radionuclides into our food supply. And filtration of water can also reduce the impact, both for consumption, bathing, and watering crops.

        There is a lot we can do, but first the public needs the truth from our governments – for a refreshing change.

        • greenthinker2012

          There is no danger to “all life on this planet”.
          The amount of material that has escaped from Fukushima is very small compared to the amount of naturally occurring radiation on the earth.
          That is simply a fact.

          • Gforce27

            Citations?

          • Gforce27

            Citations?

        • greenthinker2012

          There is no danger to “all life on this planet”.
          The amount of material that has escaped from Fukushima is very small compared to the amount of naturally occurring radiation on the earth.
          That is simply a fact.

  • Andy B

    The implications are, realistically, that billions will get life shortening cancer over the next 50 years. Already there are indications of thyroid problems among children in the US, and cancer causing levels of radioactivity in food products and Pacific fish. I would assume that within 20 years, large sections of Pacific Rim Asia, the island nations, and portions of the NW coast of North America will have to be evacuated. The USG, in its wisdom, has purposely shut down all North American monitoring stations from public view, and Hillary cut a deal to NOT monitor all imported Japanese products, many of which already show above normal levels of radiation. Just one molecule of cesium, plutonium, tritium, etc ingested gives one a better than 50:50 chance of cancer within 10 years. This will certainly solve the US entitlement problem for the next few generations; no one will live beyond age 50..

    • Pahrump Dude.

      Really? These seem to still be running normally.

      http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cemp_status.pl

    • greenthinker2012

      The UN Special Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation UNSCEAR does not agree with you. They say there will be no effects from Fukushima.
      You should also look up how much natural radiation there is.
      Every cubic metre of dirt that you grow your food in or inhale as dust contains Uranium, Thorium etc. An average concentration is a few grams per cubic metre of soil.
      So according to you we should have all ingested plenty of radioactive isotopes and should all be dead.
      Are you sure you are not exaggerating about the “single molecule” causing 50% cancer?

      • Marushka France

        Since 311 over 40% of children already have thyroid nodules — cancer cases already beginning — in a country where zero/100,000 cases of thyroid cancer is historic record.

        what you say are facts are pure hogwash. Humanity did not evolve with man-made radionuclides. There is no comparison to the amount of man-made poison from nuclear mining, processing, bomb tests, plants , weapons and waste.
        yes, just one molecule of radioactive material can radiate to surrounding tissue, putting holes through tissue, destroying the DNA strands, and cells dying or failing to replicate healthy tissue.

        What you do, misinformation, is criminal. But really, this whole ‘article’ and your sarcasm and deriding people’s intelligence… is just b.s.

        • greenthinker2012

          No person on earth has a zero chance of thyroid cancer. Did the zero in the source you are referencing vitae you to pause and question the reference?

          • Rosemary Lowe

            What are you talking about? Those of us in the health care field understand the risks of thyroid cancer from radiation. Your blanket statements such as “no person on earth has a zero chance…” are disturbing and inaccurate.

          • greenthinker2012

            Are you saying that some populations have zero chance of thyroid cancer?

      • simonhhh

        “UN Special Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation” ….examine your nonsense closely…who funds their obfuscation and misleading crap…

        Do your homework…before you come on here “green thinker” …
        even your avatar is misleading…you have been outed mate

        • Romi Elnagar

          I think when he calls himself “Greenthinker,” he means “green” as in “naive, inexperienced.”

          Either that, or “green” as in “money,” which he undoubtedly gets for selling his soul to The Empire.

        • greenthinker2012

          If you actually spent the time and effort you could read the UNSCEAR report. You could also read the supporting documentation they used to come to their conclusions. It is all rational, well thought through and convincing.
          I know you think it is all a giant conspiracy. All the scientists in the world are lying except your darlings Caldicott and Gundersen and your Yale sociology professor.
          What a sad and scary world you and Romi inhabit.

      • simonhhh

        TV: “Like they’re melting… a lot of melting sea stars out there” says Seattle biologist — Veterinarian: It’s concerning, in under a week roughly 60% of species are sick or dying — “Same thing happening near Canada and nobody’s sure why”

      • simonhhh

        UNSCEAR….greenthinker who funds them???

        • greenthinker2012

          The beauty of science is that it is verifiable.

          Everyone on the planet has a job and gets paid. So what?
          You were paid by the evil mining industry and yet apparently you retained your sense of honesty. You speak about mining pollution etc. yet you dismiss all the scientists who contributed to the UN report as unable to tell the truth.

          • simonhhh

            Greenthinker…is somehow connected to UNSCEAR….

            I worked it out…greenthinker was supporting or protecting them from public exposure!!! UNSCEAR Report: “No discernible increased incidence of radiation-related health effects are expected among exposed members of the public or their descendants. The most important health effect is on mental and social well-being”….which we know is bullshit…

            ###############Some team members in UNSCEAR have migrated from and are colluding with IAEC supporting the nuclear industry world wide…. #######################################

          • greenthinker2012

            I predicted that you would claim it is all a giant conspiracy.
            There is no shortage of crappy science-free reporting about Fukushima in the media and on the internet.
            You have no method to sort out the crap from the credible.
            You have no interest in doing so.

            My question still stands regarding your claims that “the slightest tremor…the natural laws of physics…will destroy the world environment…”
            How is this supposed to happen?
            Please explain using the laws of physics how your statement is supposed to happen.
            Also you still have not substantiated your claim of 1.2 million deaths from Chernobyl. Where did you get this number?

            You find these crazy predictions/facts on the internet and then repeat them as if they were true. When challenged to back up your claims you either
            attack, claim conspiracy, or change the subject.

            You say above that what the scientists say is bullshit but have not provided even the thinnest shred of evidence to back up your position.

          • simonhhh

            the fact you come back.here says it all…..like a criminal returning to a crime scene to see if the investigation is exposing his lies ###########################################################

          • simonhhh

            “Fishermen report boats surrounded by hundreds of dead Eastern Pacific green sea turtles — Official says some found swimming in circles as if dazed or confused,,,”
            The Tico Times (Costa Rica Newspaper), Nov. 6, 2013: Hundreds of dead Eastern Pacific green sea turtles could be headed for the shores of Costa Rica …..At least 70 dead turtles were spotted on beaches and shallow waters …. “We have reports from fishermen whose boats are surrounded by hundreds of dead turtles,” Roger Blanco, the lead investigator for the Guanacaste Conservation Area with SINAC told The Tico Times…… Two barely alive turtles were pulled from the carcasses already found and taken to the National University (UNA)……
            Veterinarians were able to save one of the turtles, which will be released tomorrow in the coastal province of Puntarenas. The other turtle died on the operating table. UNA veterinarians are now studying some of the dead turtles to determine the official causes of death….. “If a turtle has a hook in its mouth, if it has been hit in the head, then it didn’t die of natural causes,” [Didiher Chacón, the Costa Rican director of Widecast] told The Tico Times. “Not all of the turtles had these types of injuries and it is not fair to say that we are 100 percent sure that it was fishing in every case” ….Roberto Umaña the head of Incopesca in Guanacaste told The Tico Times in an interview that he has seen no evidence that would point to longline fishing. Later via a string of emails, Umaña revealed another suspect: dynamite. According to the emails, some turtles were found “swimming in circles” as if they were confused or dazed.////

            REPORT that to UNSCEAR….Mr greenthinker

          • greenthinker2012

            Just to be clear, you are blaming the turtle injuries on UNSCEAR or on nuclear power? The quote in the comment you posted says “Later via a string of emails, Umaña revealed another suspect: dynamite. According to the emails, some turtles were found “swimming in circles” as if they were confused or dazed.”
            Yup dynamite fishing would definitely account for the injuries and confusion.
            I am not sure UNSCEAR would be the correct UN organization to send this info to since they are concerned with the effects of radiation.

          • greenthinker2012

            I think that describes you perfectly

          • simonhhh

            Greenthinker…is somehow connected to UNSCEAR….

            I worked it out…greenthinker was supporting or protecting them from public exposure!!! UNSCEAR Report: “No discernible increased incidence of radiation-related health effects are expected among exposed members of the public or their descendants. The most important health effect is on mental and social well-being”….which we know is bullshit…

            ###############Some team members in UNSCEAR have migrated from and are colluding with IAEC supporting the nuclear industry world wide…. #######################################

    • greenthinker2012

      The UN Special Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation UNSCEAR does not agree with you. They say there will be no effects from Fukushima.
      You should also look up how much natural radiation there is.
      Every cubic metre of dirt that you grow your food in or inhale as dust contains Uranium, Thorium etc. An average concentration is a few grams per cubic metre of soil.
      So according to you we should have all ingested plenty of radioactive isotopes and should all be dead.
      Are you sure you are not exaggerating about the “single molecule” causing 50% cancer?

  • JLB
    • greenthinker2012

      Paragraph after paragraph of errors. For the article you linked to to contain so many falsehoods it must be intentional.

      This one made me laugh it was so over the top.

      “You don’t have to have a degree in Nuclear Physics to know that even the smallest mistake in the operation could “once again” lead to a cascading nuclear event with an “apocalyptic” end no one wants to experience.”

      I would say that NOT having a Nuclear Physics Degree would be ESSENTIAL in “knowing” this because actual knowledge would force one to realize what utter BS the statement is.

      Here is another good one..

      “one misstep with a rod and it could go critical”

      I would love to hear someone try and explain how a fuel rod could go critical.

      Such breathtaking lack of knowledge. Look up what level of enrichment is needed for such a thing to be possible.

      Here is a link for actual information.
      For those who need hyperventilating histrionics you will find the site pretty dry. It is full of facts and balance and, like reality, is not terribly exciting.
      For those that prefer information over emotion the site is a great resource.

      http://www.hiroshimasyndrome.com/

      • simonhhh

        30 tons at Three Mile Island nuclear fuel rods…

        180 tons at Chernobyl nuclear fuel rods…

        4270 tons at Fukushima including 3 complete meltdowns to corium mass…

        ……somewhere between 25 to 85 times more radioactive material total release potential…go figure

        • greenthinker2012

          400 tonnes of water with a small amount of radioactive isotopes.
          Adding water to the isotopes makes the number sound bigger and scarier, but it doesn’t increase the risk. Your statements may be technically true but as a whole they are distorted and lead to false conclusions.

          • simonhhh

            greenthinker…some one is either paying you by the hour or the post?
            ………which is it?

            I suspect GE….”making life happier or safer”

            Every-time I visit a Nuclear based website…their crappy little advertisement follows me around like a bad SMELL….sound familiar

          • simonhhh

            “….Adding water to the isotopes makes the number sound bigger and scarier, but it doesn’t increase the risk…”

            WRONG…it rattles up the food chain and dramatically CONCENTRATES…

          • greenthinker2012

            You must be getting paid as well since you are posting as often as me.

          • simonhhh

            I;m retired and spent a lifetime dealing with small brained nitwits like yourself…go figure…when this fukushima really starts taking it’s TOLL …you will be spewing in your soup…remembering this discussion

          • greenthinker2012

            And as the years go by and your fevered imaginings fail to happen I bet you will not have the courage to admit you were wrong

          • greenthinker2012

            And as the years go by and your fevered imaginings fail to happen I bet you will not have the courage to admit you were wrong

  • JLB

    8-19-2013 “Fukushima Not Over Yet” And last but not least, get the Japanese out-of-the-picture, their
    societies structure does not condone failure, the top never wants bad news,
    consequently the bottom can only perform to the expectations of the rule from
    the top – if that translates into bogus information – they are more than happy.

    Michio Kaku said within a few weeks of the disaster, “TEPCO is
    literally hanging on by their fingernails,” this is still true today, showing
    time and time again they and their counterparts in the government are not
    capable of handling disaster. Now the
    world is entrusting them to execute the most dangerous fuel removal in history.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/161458105/Fukushima-Not-Over-Yet

  • Miklos Halasz

    Thougt the japanese have beter way of handling atomreacrors
    and yhe whole catastrof .intsead have lied to the whole World
    the magnitud of the problem is greater than the people thought it.
    fish from the area is not eatable neither the agriciltural Products..
    soon coming the radioation efects too

  • Bankster

    Holy smokes, Batman. If all this is true the North American public is unaware of the potential public safety at issue.

    • CaptD

      North American M$M is controlled by the Pro-Nuclear Industry…
      That is why this story has been played down since 3/11/11
      Good Luck

      • K9Steve

        @CaptDD, I’m not sure what a “Pro-Nuclear Industry” is, so it’s hard for me to know what you mean. (I also don’t know what “M$M” is.) Perhaps you are referring to the nuclear industry in the U.S.? If so, how could such a powerful organization get only two reactors approved in the last 30 years of so? Is the secret goal of the industry to get rid of itself?

        • CaptD

          M$M is Main $tream Media, as in these 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America – Business Insider

          http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

          Only two because although the FIX is in Politically, they are so expensive and take so long to complete, that they only get approved where Nuclear owns State Politicians, who along with the Utilities keep the ratepayers in energy slavery…

          • K9Steve

            Thanks for the info, @CaptDD:disqus. Note that part of the reason nuclear plants are so expensive and take so long to complete has a lot to do with the fact that the regulatory process is incredibly time consuming in the U.S. Because the process is applied to any sort of nuclear power whatsoever (not just the current LWRs in use in the U.S.), there are some great (and inherently safe) nuclear technologies that can’t get off the ground in the U.S. (See, for example, the book, “Thorium: energy cheaper than coal” by Robert Hargraves.) We could power humanity for tens of thousands of years with Thorium and do it quite safely.

  • CaptD

    PM Abe is under Utility Gang Control

    The Japanese people have N☢ say.

    Ex PM Kan knows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAYVK8_W2h4 … …

    +

    Bowing will not save Japanese FACE if #4 SFP collapses!

    Giant Storm on the way as we tweet!

    • greenthinker2012

      Even if SFP 4 collapses, which extensive examination by structural engineers shows that it won’t, there would still be no disaster. After 2 years, the spent fuel is not putting out much heat at all and would be perfectly safe with air cooling.

      • CaptD

        Your comment is totally without basis in fact!

        Please post link that backs up your claim, otherwise get informed…

        ===> Here is what Former Japanese PM Kan (1), Gregory Jaczko (2) the Former Chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and 2 other Nuclear Experts (3) had to say at a June 4, 2013 seminar in San Diego,CA, “Lessons for California” which was based upon what they experienced as the Leaders “in-charge” when 3/11/11 occurred:

        (1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

        (2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

        (3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

      • CaptD

        BTW:

        1. If we all are not lucky, SFP #4 could become a nuclear disaster of epic proportions!

        2. Structural engineers cannot predict the size of the next big quake or determine the effects of the corium(s) upon the ground water at Fukushima.

        • greenthinker2012

          Show us how the laws of physics will be repealed and the SFP #4 will become a disaster. It is relatively easy to calculate from first principles how much heat is being produced by the spent fuel.
          I don’t need to post a link and you don’t need to trust anybody or try and guess their motives, you can just do the math.
          The math shows that the spent fuel is generating about 2 KW per tonne U.
          This is less than double what my hair dryer puts out. I hope that helps put the danger in perspective when people say it will be the end of all ife on the planet or that metal rods are going to burst into flames.

          The corium is full contained within the containment vessels and will never reach the ground water. The cores are at less than 100 degrees Celsius so even if they reached the groundwater they wouldn’t do much. The same math shows that they as well are putting out approx 2 KW per tonne.

          • CaptD

            Post a link to back up your claim about where the corium(s) are;
            Otherwise your guess is simply that…

          • greenthinker2012

            You made the original assertion that the core locations are unknown.
            I will look for supporting documents for my assertion if you do the same and then we can compare.

          • CaptD

            Background: Molten Cores in dry sand : Ergen Report via Lapp, 71 vs Fukushima Diiachi wet ground Background:

            http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/molten-cores-in-dry-sand-ergen-report-via-lapp-71-vs-fukushima-diiachi-wet-ground/

            and

            The Disposition of the Coriums at Fukushima.

            http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/the-disposition-of-the-corium-at-fukushima/

            and

            Majia’s Blog “Analysis of Recent Nuclear Criticalities at Daiichi and the End of my Long Goodbye

            http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/majias-blog-analysis-of-recent-nuclear-criticalities-at-daiichi-and-the-end-of-my-long-goodbye/

          • greenthinker2012

            I read the reports you linked to.
            The claim that the corium will remain molten for 10 years is not credible. (see calculation below)

            I am amazed at how much bad information there is on the internet regarding Fukushima. I would estimate that over 95% of the information is wrong in that it defies the laws of physics.
            I have not found the original sources I read 2 years ago that talked about where the cores were but I will keep looking.
            One erroneous belief that kept surfacing was this idea that the cores would still be molten. This is an easy belief to show as false. The heat from decay of the fission products is well understood and characterized. It is just math to find out how much heat the cores are producing after 2 years of shutdown. This commenting format does not allow equations so I will link to wikipedia
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decay_heat#Power_reactors_in_shutdown

            The calculation gives us a result of approx 2 KW per tonne U after 2.5 years of shutdown. This is hardly the amount of heat necessary to bore a hole to China as some internet sources claim is happening. This amount of heat is less than double what my hair dryer puts out per tonne U.

            One estimate is that the corium in one of the reactors has melted through the steel pressure vessel and into approx 70 cm of the concrete foundation. This foundation is almost 10 metres thick so the core is still within the building.
            This estimate seems credible to me from seeing the photos from the Chernobyl meltdown where the corium solidified on the concrete floor without eating into it significantly.
            http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=672660

            The second prevalent internet meme is that criticality can occur. The conditions for criticality are quite specific. A solid mass of Uranium enriched to the extent of the Fukushima cores can’t become critical without a specific geometry and without a properly configured moderator. This again can be calculated.
            Cheers for now.

          • Gforce27

            I feel frustrated, Greenthinker. By your logic, none of these Nuclear Scientists, Nuclear Engineers, experts, medical doctors, dipolomats, U.N advisors and other top level academics, scientists, and government officials, have no grounds for being concerned? It defies reason. I’m sure they’ll all back down when you patiently explain to them that they have no reason to be so concerned…

            I also think it’s time you tell us what your credential and or expertise here is, if you want us to take you at all seriously.

          • CaptD

            Wired: ‘Healthy debate’ about location of Fukushima corium — Lava can melt a foot of concrete per hour — Cooling with water may not stop corium flow
            http://enenews.com/wired-healthy-debate-about-where-fukushima-coriums-are-lava-can-melt-a-foot-of-concrete-per-hour-cooling-with-water-may-not-stop-corium-flow

            Plus, please see article comments for additional links…
            Enjoy

          • greenthinker2012

            I find links such as you posted painful to examine. They are so full of bias and errors I don’t know where to begin.
            The French anti-nuclear experts are either quoted out of context or are misrepresenting the situation. For example they are quoted as saying that the Corium at several thousand degrees could melt through concrete. If they are stating that this is a theoretical possibility but is not the actual situation then they are being misquoted. If they are stating that the Corium is at a temperature of several thousand degrees then I seriously doubt their competency. (See my calculations included in another comment reply to you that shows the heat output after 2.5 years.)

          • CaptD

            greenthinker2012
            You claim bias and errors yet never post links to back up each of your claims…
            I you have first hand knowledge of Fukushima, post how and where it came from, otherwise you are just a pro-nuclear proponent like many others that are trying to somehow say that nuclear is safe when in fact there are still about 200,000 still unable to return home in Fukushima because of radiation pollution.

          • greenthinker2012

            To illustrate my claim of bias, I picked the one example of the “experts” and explained why it was biased in 2 possible ways. I included reference to calculations that show how their claim has been either misquoted or they don’t know basic physics. Mathematical equations regarding physical reality don’t need links. Do the math yourself if you do not believe me.

            My knowledge of Fukushima comes from a basic understanding of physics that I use to sift through the many sources of information available. I test their credibility by examining whether they are posting things that defy the laws of physics or whether what they say falls within the realm of the possible.

            Secondly, there are literally millions of publicly available radiation measurements from the area over the last 2 years taken by hundreds of different people and groups. One example of a group that takes and posts these measurements is http://www.safecast.org but there are others as well if you want to find your own.

            From these sources I can see that the radiation levels in the evacuated areas is lower than the natural background radiation in other parts of the world. These other parts of the world do not show any negative effects from living in these areas for countless generations.

            That people cannot return home is a political issue and an issue related to fear.
            I do not know what should be done to help quell the fear except by urging people to think critically about what information they spread and to make sure they are not needlessly spreading fear.

          • Gforce27

            I see, so you are more of an expert here than ALL the experts quoted in the above article? Since you seem to be the only one here disputing their claims, I urge you tell us what you’re actual expertise and or profession is.

          • greenthinker2012

            To illustrate my claim of bias, I picked the one example of the “experts” and explained why it was biased in 2 possible ways. I included reference to calculations that show how their claim has been either misquoted or they don’t know basic physics. Mathematical equations regarding physical reality don’t need links. Do the math yourself if you do not believe me.

            My knowledge of Fukushima comes from a basic understanding of physics that I use to sift through the many sources of information available. I test their credibility by examining whether they are posting things that defy the laws of physics or whether what they say falls within the realm of the possible.

            Secondly, there are literally millions of publicly available radiation measurements from the area over the last 2 years taken by hundreds of different people and groups. One example of a group that takes and posts these measurements is http://www.safecast.org but there are others as well if you want to find your own.

            From these sources I can see that the radiation levels in the evacuated areas is lower than the natural background radiation in other parts of the world. These other parts of the world do not show any negative effects from living in these areas for countless generations.

            That people cannot return home is a political issue and an issue related to fear.
            I do not know what should be done to help quell the fear except by urging people to think critically about what information they spread and to make sure they are not needlessly spreading fear.

          • CaptD

            greenthinker2012
            You claim bias and errors yet never post links to back up each of your claims…
            I you have first hand knowledge of Fukushima, post how and where it came from, otherwise you are just a pro-nuclear proponent like many others that are trying to somehow say that nuclear is safe when in fact there are still about 200,000 still unable to return home in Fukushima because of radiation pollution.

          • simonhhh

            CHINA POST….Oct. 27, 2013:

            Nothing remotely similar has been attempted before and while everyone – nuclear experts, government officials, environmental groups and the public – agrees that the rods [in the Unit 4 pool] must be moved to more secure storage,

            [I]t is feared that any error of judgment could lead to a massive release of radiation into the atmosphere

            Unit 4 at the plant contains an alarming 10 times as much caesium-137 as was at Chernobyl, experts say

            [A] spokesman for Tepco [...] admitted, however, that it was not clear whether any of the rods were damaged or if debris in the pool would complicate the recovery effort.

            Charles Perrow, a professor emeritus at Yale University

            [He's] made even more strident warnings

            “Conditions in the unit 4 pool, 100 feet from the ground, are perilous, and if any two of the rods touch it could cause a nuclear reaction that would be uncontrollable [and] would require the evacuation of surrounding areas including Tokyo”

            “[Then] the common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission andall of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years”

            Unnamed nuclear energy expert who’s monitored Tepco during Fukushima crisis

            “I would prefer to have had some US companies that are experts on spent fuel decommissioning brought in to assist”

            [S]hould the worst happen at the Fukushima plant [...] Some of the contamination would undoubtedly reach Tokyo

            “If so, go up to a very high floor — Radioactive particles are heavy, so keep out of basements”

          • greenthinker2012

            You are relying on a sociology professor for your nuclear information. That explains a lot. Oh and an “unnamed” expert.
            Why not calculate the maximum energy that touching 2 rods together would produce?
            See if the statement that the pool could not be cooled in that situation is credible.
            Even if all the water boiled away (implausible) the reaction would stop due to lack of moderator.

          • greenthinker2012

            I find links such as you posted painful to examine. They are so full of bias and errors I don’t know where to begin.
            The French anti-nuclear experts are either quoted out of context or are misrepresenting the situation. For example they are quoted as saying that the Corium at several thousand degrees could melt through concrete. If they are stating that this is a theoretical possibility but is not the actual situation then they are being misquoted. If they are stating that the Corium is at a temperature of several thousand degrees then I seriously doubt their competency. (See my calculations included in another comment reply to you that shows the heat output after 2.5 years.)

          • simonhhh

            “Nothing like this has ever been attempted” — Yale Professor: “All of humanity will be threatened for 1000s of years” if rods in Unit 4 pool touch and have nuclear reaction during removal process — Tepco: “Not clear” if fuel is already damaged

          • simonhhh

            South China Post…. Oct. 27, 2013:

            Nothing remotely similar has been attempted before and while everyone – nuclear experts, government officials, environmental groups and the public – agrees that the rods [in the Unit 4 pool] must be moved to more secure storage,…..It is feared that any error of judgment could lead to a massive release of radiation into the atmosphere

            Unit 4 at the plant contains an alarming 10 times as much caesium-137 as was at Chernobyl, experts say….A spokesman for Tepco admitted, however, that it was not clear whether any of the rods were damaged or if debris in the pool would complicate the recovery effort.

            Charles Perrow, a professor emeritus at Yale University and made even more strident warnings….“Conditions in the unit 4 pool, 100 feet from the ground, are perilous, and if any two of the rods touch it could cause a nuclear reaction that would be uncontrollable [and] would require the evacuation of surrounding areas including Tokyo”

            “The common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission and all of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years”
            Unnamed nuclear energy expert who’s monitored Tepco during Fukushima crisis…..“I would prefer to have had some US companies that are experts on spent fuel decommissioning brought in to assist”

            Should the worst happen at the Fukushima plant …. Some of the contamination would undoubtedly reach Tokyo…..“If so, go up to a very high floor — Radioactive particles are heavy, so keep out of basements”

          • greenthinker2012

            Is that a quote from your Yale Sociology professor?

      • Marushka France

        ‘heat’ ? How about deadly radioisotopes that are causing more and more disruption to global health and DNA destroying all species on the planet? Among them: Strontium-89, Strontium-90, Yttrium-90, Zirconium-95, Niobium-95, Ruthenium-106, Rhodium-106, Antimony-125, Iodine-131, Xenon-133, Caesium-137, Caesium-134, Cerium-144 (loads of this), Protoactinium-147, Europium-154, Plutonium-238, 239, 240, 241, Americium-241 and 243, Curium-242,243,244, and of course Uranium 238,235 and 234.

        • greenthinker2012

          How about those “deadly radioisotopes”? The spent fuel in the pools is not hot enough to cause a problem. The spent fuel is sealed within Zirconium tubes.
          Life evolved in radiation that was higher than that of today. How was it possible for life to have evolved in this higher radiation field if the smaller amount you are worried about is so deadly it will “destroy all species”?

      • Romi Elnagar

        What do you know about structural engineering, Mr. Thinker Man? Anybody with a fifth-grade education could look at those buildings and tell you they wouldn’t stand up to another earthquake.

        • greenthinker2012

          The international team of structural engineers that examined the spent fuel pool disagree with you.
          These engineers probably also disagree with many fifth-graders on how the world actually works.
          But Romi, you can choose who you believe knows best.

  • DamchoDronma

    hatrickpenry.wordpress.com 15 August 2013 coverup
    hatrickpenry.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/something-wicked-this-way-comes-the-story-of-plume-gate-the-worlds-largest-provable-cover-up/
    add zirconium fire in sfp #4

    Fukushima spent fuel went up @ #3, meltdowns, Chernobyl was also nuclear explosion

    • Marushka France

      nothing like NRC docs to provide more clarity

  • DamchoDronma
    • greenthinker2012

      The site you linked to is garbage.
      My god you need to learn some critical thinking skills.
      Unless of course you are addicted to the adrenaline rush of “Disaster Porn” .

      • Marushka France

        NRC documents released under the freedom of information act…
        try reading it yourself.
        Three “Meltdowns” one actually exited the reactor
        15 March 2011 NRC memo “U2 ex-vessel; U4 sfp zirc fire, catastrophe”
        Unit #2 at Fukushima Daiichi has left the reactor…
        Unit #4′s spent fool pool apparantly a zirconium fire…

        Attacking individuals rather than substantive dialogue is no argument.

        • greenthinker2012

          Can you provide a link to the specific documents with page numbers etc?

      • Marushka France

        THREE nuclear meltdowns… Unit 2 ‘ex-vessel’ as in Elvis has left the building;
        Units 1 and 3 are literally in meltdown… Unit 4, precarious perch that U.S. Oregon Congressman Ron Wyden said was of grave concern,,, and outside Unit 3 and 4, nuclear fuel had to be bulldozed under, covered with steel plates (all in the NRC docs) and areas also covered with cement,.. appears #3 spent fuel pool isn’t all in the fuel pool… too ‘hot’ for people to approach, remotely operated cranes are used…

        pouring trillions of bequerels of contamination… the most hazardous nuclear accident ever… not ‘disaster porn’… REALITY. NRC DOCS seem pretty credible to me.

        http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/foia/japan-foia-info.html

        “…] “There were numerous indications of high radiation levels that can only come from damaged fuel at those kinds of levels,” said Bill Borchardt, executive director for operations at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. “So we felt pretty confident that there was significant fuel damage at the site a few days into the event.”

        The NRC also had “suspicions” about the conditions of the spent fuel pools, Borchardt said after a speech at the Japan Society in New York.

        Based on that assumption, he said, the NRC recommended that U.S. residents in Japan stay 80 km away from the crippled power plant, which was far beyond the Japanese government’s recommendation for residents within a 20-km radius to evacuate. [...]:

        • greenthinker2012

          You reference suspicions and speculation from the beginning of the events. Fortunately we have almost three years of hindsight and examination of realty to counter these speculations.

          • simonhhh

            Green thinker making these unfounded accusations and incessant nitwittery is dangerous, misleading and irritating…do you have a credible background here?

          • greenthinker2012

            You should avoid appeals to authority.

          • simonhhh

            Not only are you wrong in your assertions in general….but your’e an arrogant little prick…How ’bout sticking a mox rod up your ass and wait and see if your eyes light up…

            I said I worked on the mining side for decades …. the industry has been covering up their pollution ever since they started mining U238 …Around 99.284% of natural uranium is uranium-238, which has a half-life of 1.41×1017 seconds (4.468×109 years, or 4.468 billion years)

            Green thinker….wake up to your self

          • greenthinker2012

            Your puerile information free rants are not at all convincing.

          • simonhhh

            Deep M5 quake jolts eastern Japan — RT: Highly dangerous fuel rod removal “will not permit even the slightest tremor” at Fukushima plant….

            Nov. 3, 2013: Deep 5.0 earthquake rattles wide area of Japan [...] Japanese authorities said there were no reports of injuries or damage Sunday after a magnitude 5.0 jolted a wide area of the country. Shaking was felt in Tokyo, Chiba and five other prefectures [...]

            Reuters, Nov. 3, 2013: Magnitude 5.0 quake jolts eastern Japan, no tsunami warning

            Japan Today, Nov. 3, 2013: M5 quake jolts Ibaraki, Tochigi, Saitama …The Japan Meteorological Agency said the epicenter was at a depth of about 70 kilometers in southern Ibaraki Prefecture.

            Kyodo, Nov. 3, 2013: M5.0 quake shakes Ibaraki, neighboring prefectures …The temblor registered 4 on the Japanese seismic intensity scale of 7 in southern parts of Ibaraki, Tochigi and Saitama prefectures ….

            RT News: Earthquake hits close to Fukushima, tremors felt as far as Tokyo….. A 5.0 earthquake was registered on Japan’s east cost in a prefecture neighboring Fukushima….. The news comes just ahead of one of the most dangerous nuclear cleanup operations ever attempted. Scheduled to start at the beginning of November, it will involve the careful, manual removal of 400 tons of spent nuclear fuel rods from the plant’s Reactor No. 4 …..The long and cumbersome operation will not permit even the slightest tremor, or Japan risks a catastrophe greater than Chernobyl.

            GREENTHINKER…it’s not what you think or I think….it’s the FACTS on the ground and the natural laws of physics…that will destroy the world environment…

          • greenthinker2012

            Earthquakes happen all the time. Small tremors are to be expected. A level 5 earthquake is 10000 times less powerful than the one that caused the original Tsunami. The removal of the fuel rods is not any big deal. The assemblies are intact and they will simply lift them from the pool.
            Explain how i your mind “the slightest tremor” will cause a disaster “greater than Chernobyl”
            Don’t just repeat garbage you read on the internet. Think about it. How will this so called disaster happen? Using the natural laws of physics explain what is supposed to happen?

          • greenthinker2012

            Earthquakes happen all the time. Small tremors are to be expected. A level 5 earthquake is 10000 times less powerful than the one that caused the original Tsunami. The removal of the fuel rods is not any big deal. The assemblies are intact and they will simply lift them from the pool.
            Explain how i your mind “the slightest tremor” will cause a disaster “greater than Chernobyl”
            Don’t just repeat garbage you read on the internet. Think about it. How will this so called disaster happen? Using the natural laws of physics explain what is supposed to happen?

          • greenthinker2012

            An isotope like Uranium that takes 4 billion years to decay is barely radioactive.
            The oceans contain billions of tonnes of naturally occurring Uranium.
            We should improve our mining techniques to pollute less.

            As for arrogance…None are so arrogant as ones who feel they have the right to insult others and judge them without information. Follow your own advice and look in the mirror.

          • simonhhh

            “AS FOR ARROGANCE”… I am entitled to call it as it is…when you continue to ignore facts, but also the subtle nuances reading between the lines…how can you explain 1.2 million deaths at Chernobyl when we know the incubation period for cancers is 4 to 6 years…don’t gloss over the fact Fukushima has 24 times the tonnage…Tepco can continue to deny this disaster for the next 6 years and like you FOB IT OFF as harmless…

          • greenthinker2012

            simonhh, the 1.2 million deaths from Chernobyl are just in your head. You have yet to substantiate it. Maybe you will try and use the discredited NYAS publication about Chernobyl or some equally terrible hacked together document.
            However you came to your erroneous numbers about Chernobyl, it is a red herring. No one is contemplating building any more of those plants. It is the equivalent of condemning modern airline travel because of the Hindenburg.
            The vast majority of the radionuclides at Fukushima are safely contained and there is no credible scenario by which they could be dispersed.

        • greenthinker2012

          Your link leads to hundreds of documents. Do you have a specific one that you are referring to?
          Without the specific docs, I will respond in general.
          Some of the fuel rods in the reactors melted.
          The total amount of isotopes that leaked from the reactors is measured in Kg.
          The spent fuel pools have not caused any illness or death nor are they a danger of the scale that you mention. aka the end of life on the planet.
          The spent fuel assemblies in the pool are cool enough to pose no danger. The spent fuel assemblies in the pools are not damaged.
          The reactor cores did not “leave the building”
          They are in the containment vessel.

          • simonhhh

            “…They are in the containment vessel….” wrong

            They have now melted down into bedrock…above a vast water table running under the Fukushima Prefecture….and leaking radioactivity into large outlet valves!!!

            nitwit…do your homework and the dog didn’t eat it….!!!!

          • greenthinker2012

            You have not yet provided a single credible source of information. You should do your homework.

          • simonhhh

            I’ve worked in the industry in the mining side for over 35 years and qualified…I don’t need references …i’ve seen this from the inside out…

            go figure….

      • simonhhh

        “Disaster Porn”…. hey

        So you get off on “Denial Porn”
        and it’s not the river in Egypt….

      • simonhhh

        look in the mirror….

        • greenthinker2012

          Pretty handsome I would say.

          • simonhhh

            “…Your puerile information free rants are not at all convincing….”

            you said this not me!!

  • James

    It’s amazing how strong the propaganda is about Fukushima. Seems like Washington’s Blog is falling for it too.

    First off, the article is correct, the problem is not the radioactive water – that’s just a by product of the problem.

    Second, the problem is not the #4 fuel pool. Arnie Gundersen gets paid by the nuclear industry to tell you it is and all the sheep like to follow him – I believe he’s a paid liar.

    The #4 fuel pool was stabilized in the six months after the accident. It does have to be kept cool, but it’s not a huge problem. If you think everything is OK if the #4 pool hasn’t fallen – well then you’ve just fallen into the propaganda trap – it’s the most stable thing on the site.

    The shared spent fuel pool contains a much larger amount of fuel rods, but there has been virtually no reporting on it’s stability or status – it is the most dangerous one. Reactors 5 and 6 both have as much spent fuel as #4 in their pools, plus fuel in their reactors, and there has been no reporting on their status.

    The immediate real problem at Fukushima is the plutonium dust that was released when the #3 and the #4 reactor buildings exploded and spread it far and wide. The #3 containment failed on the morning of March 14, 2011 releasing an untold amount of plutonium to the environment. 2 hours later the USS Ronald Reagan steamed through the radioactive cloud from that explosion, and already sailors that were on that ship are suffering serious health issues and have sued TEPCO. The US Navy has since “misplaced” their health records and is not standing behind them.

    The very next day, March 15th 2011, I believe the plutonium laced MOX fuel that was sitting in the machinery pool of the #4 reactor building exploded and spread an even greater amount of plutonium around the site. This fuel was being readied to load into the #4 reactor

    This is the largest release of plutonium in the history of the nuclear age – and enough to wipe out lall ife on earth – depending on how far the exposure reaches. Prior to Fukushima only ounces of Plutonium had ever been released to the environment – Fukushima possibly released tons.

    So, the most dangerous substance has already been released. They should be tracking every speck of it, however they have completely covered up it’s release – so we have no way of gauging how dangerous it is or where it went.

    You can be sure however, that Fukushima is likely infinitely worse in terms of release of dangerous radiation than Chernobyl.

    • Marushka France

      the whole article and comments are a sham… a horrible attempt at propagating false sense of safety. shame on you.
      It’s real. it should be faced as honestly and truthfully as it is. period.

      “A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ”

      John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. President, 1917-1963

  • Kanon25

    Why is the world still committing more resources to this “climate-friendly” energy? It’s only “green”attribute is that it is going to have us all glowing in the dark.

    • Joseph E Fasciani

      I’m 70, and I put the same question to any number of “gung ho!” nuclear scientists/engineers re nukes as energy: how do we eliminate the waste? No good answer, EVER. They just say they’ll deal w/it. In SEVENTY FREAKING years it has NOT been dealt with, and that’s why we have this catastrophe now unfolding. And the insane Obamination keeps repeating the Great Lie that Syria’s chemicals are THE problem of the century, even unto WW3. Uh huh. Does the phrase “hasn’t got our priorities in order” apply here? And if so, why not? What ever happened to the good old UN that was supposed to save ALL our asses? Now they’ve evolved so they’re ALL asses, as they mumble about Syria’s chemical warfare problems!

      • Bluebird_of_Fastidiousness

        Implicit in your statement “our priorities” is the idea that those in power share any interests with those they rule. This is a common misconception. I still don’t get nuclear, even if they don’t care whether we all die in a meltdown Armageddon, cause they need this planet as much as we do. Maybe they have bunkers or spaceships. Maybe they are just that freaking crazy. I think it’s the last one, cause the only reason they ever built these monstrosities in the first place was to proliferate warheads. If that wasn’t the case, they would have been using thorium this whole time, or better yet no nucs at all.

      • greenthinker2012

        The “Waste” issue has been solved. If you truly wish to know you should go talk to a real nuclear engineer. The technical issues have been solved and it is a purely political issue.

        • Kanon25

          Not true – there is no proven method that is convincing in its ability to store nuclear waste for the expected lifespan when it is dangerous. None.

          • greenthinker2012

            Like I said in my comment, go talk to a real engineer. Stop getting your information from crappy biased websites. The fission products are radioactive for 300 years, the long-lived isotopes can be recycled and used to make more electricity.
            Seriously, go talk to a real engineer and stop listening to crackpots like Gunderson and Caldecott.

          • Kanon25

            You are just spewing propaganda.

            Fact is that the Fukishima power plant (built in 1971) was not able to withstand even the natural events that occurred within a mere 40 year cycle (an earthquake and tsunami). But you want us to rely on the same industry to provide safe storage of highly toxic nuclear waste products for 300 to several thousand years?

            Sorry but that’s insane even just from the point of view of unreliability, let alone the long term costs, which are astronomic.

            Nuclear power is a bad idea now, was a bad idea when it was created, a of a climate product of sheer ignorance – and needs to be shut down.

          • greenthinker2012

            Are you saying that Japan suffers a magnitude 9 earthquake every 30 years?
            because actually it was the most powerful known earthquake ever to have hit Japan, and the fifth most powerful earthquake in the world since modern record-keeping began.

            It is also interesting to note that the other 50 reactors in Japan weathered this once in a century-plus event without incident.
            This includes the Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Plant just 12 KM south of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi power plants.

            Every industry in Japan was affected by the tsunami. They all released dangerous chemicals into the environment.

            The industry has a proven track record of safety. If we add up all the deaths from civilian nuclear power since it began a half century ago, the number is less than the number of people killed every single year by fossil fuels.Google “deaths per Terrawatt” for a comparison of safety between the various methods of energy production.

          • Kanon25

            “The industry has a proven track record of safety. ”

            No, that’s weasely, as you spew toxic material all around that you then fob off as “background” radiation.

            “Are you saying that Japan suffers a magnitude 9 earthquake every 30 years?”

            I’m saying in even a 30 year span you had events you cannot handle – Fukushima is still not under control even now. And yet you are arrogant enough to want to create waste that is highly toxic for a thousand years and pretend that you have it all under control. Simply stupid.

          • greenthinker2012

            1) Look up the numbers for the safety record.

            2) There is no “fobbing off”. The numbers and science behind background radiation are well established. Are you saying that natural background radiation is actually man made?

            3)Fukushima is under control. No one has died because of nuclear power as a result of this once in a century event and no one will.

            4) All power production produces waste. Show me one that doesn’t.

            5) Your insults are a sign that your beliefs are not supported by facts.

          • Romi Elnagar

            And your continual insistence that there have been no deaths is pure propaganda.

          • greenthinker2012

            I am not interested in listening to propaganda nor am I interested in spreading propaganda.
            This is an important topic and deserves facts that can be examined.
            Show me some facts that will prove me wrong.
            Show me a credible source that shows any radiation deaths.

          • simonhhh

            Oct. 18, 2013: [...] the emission of radioactive particles from Fukushima Dai-ichi continues until today and that the available source term [i.e. total radioactive release] estimates only deal with the emissions during the first weeks of the disaster, it is important to look at which source term estimate to use [...] UNSCEAR [United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation] bases its calculations on the source term estimate of the Japanese Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA), an organization that was severely criticized [...] for its collusion with the nuclear industry [...] The renowned Norwegian Institute for Air Research (NILU) found a release of cesium-137 three times higher than the JAEA estimate. [...] By relying on data from neutral international institutions rather than the Japanese nuclear industry, accusations of selective data sampling could be reduced. Also, it is important to include not only iodine-131 and cesium-137 in atmospheric release assessments, such as JAEA, but also radioisotopes such as iodine-133, strontium-89/90 and plutonium-isotopes, as they were also detected in soil, groundwater and sediment samples in Fukushima Prefecture.

            Nuclear Regulatory Commission FOIA ML12128A322, Published May 1, 2013: Page 8 — “Pu contamination in soil thought to be coming from the reactors”

            TEPCO, April 10, 2012: Detection of Pu in the soil in Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station[…] there are possibilities that [the Pu-238, Pu-239, and Pu-240] originate from the accident this time, taking the previous analysis results into consideration. Pu-238, Pu-239, and Pu-240 have been detected in the samples collected after March 21 at some places; however, there have been no major changes in the amounts.

          • simonhhh

            Interestingly…Japan TV star suffering acute leukemia after eating Fukushima produce 6 months later dies…After consumption of vegetables from Fukushima fell ill TV star to acute leukemia…

            Large parts of Japan are loaded after the Fukushima disaster radioactive heavy. Also, the current rice crop is contaminated. After the disaster, the Japanese government had initially indicated, food from the contaminated region are relatively harmless. A Japanese TV host had eaten so demonstrative in his TV show vegetables from the north of the country. Now the 63-year-old is suffering from acute leukemia…Mr. Otsuka Norikazu [...] has been “supporting north Japan by eating their food”. …He declared that he will be back on TV by next March or April, but he has his neck connected to the tube, and they are injecting anticancer drug…..Now he is 63 years old. Statistically, even though he goes though the hard time to fight against cancer, ….Statistically the chance of surviving is 30~40% in 5 years….the incubation period for most cancers …empirically proven after Chernobyl.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Thank you very much indeed for your comments, Simon. Yesterday, someone sent me a long bibliography of mostly peer-reviewed articles, some in Russian, and most of them about the health effects of Chernobyl. The bibliography, in case you are interested, is at

            https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HI_ZAZTwBDDN7lt34HytzZ5oG88hhkkfhYQkrMluC7w/edit

          • simonhhh

            Thanks Romi…it amazes me the short sighted naivety of some…the sort of attitude that pervades in first world governments….that will ultimately kill us all…

            What about generations to come…they will scorn us for not acting sooner

          • simonhhh

            “me doth think-est thou protestist too much”…..shakespeare

          • Gforce27

            “3)…. No one has died because of nuclear power
            as a result of this once in a century event and no one will.”

            Green thinker, this is tiresome. The long term effects of radiation exposure are pretty well documented. However, since cancer, ten years down the road cannot be positively connected to previous exposure, it is easy to say “there have been no deaths.” I think that depends on who you ask and how those statistics are quantified. Once again, I find your assertion that no one has died because of a nuclear power accident to be completely disingenuous.

          • greenthinker2012

            You are correct that the long term effects of radiation exposure are well documented and are used by epidemiologists to predict cancer rates. These epidemiologists are also very good at detecting any increases in cancer or other diseases using sophisticated statistical analysis.

            They can easily identify that eating red meat, drinking beer, BBQing your food, cause statistically significant increases in cancer in any particular population. Of course any one particular case of cancer cannot be blamed on any one exposure the person had to a carcinogen, but the epidemiologists can make definite links between these common substances and increased cancer.

            The exposure to radiation at Fukushima on the other hand is so low that this link can not be established.

            You say “I think that depends on who you ask and how those statistics are quantified.”

            Both the UNSCEAR and the WHO would be credible scientific organizations to look to for an answer. These organizations are comprised of scientists from each country in the world who are chosen based on their expertise in their fields of study.

            They have each published reports that conclude there will be no detectable increase in cancers as a result of the radiological release.

            UNSCEAR Link:
            http://www.unscear.org/unscear

            quote:
            “there have been no health effects attributed to radiation exposure observed among workers, the people with the highest radiation exposures. To date, no health effects attributable to radiation exposure have been observed among children or any other member of the population;”

            WHO Link:
            http://apps.who.int/iris/bitst

            quote:

            “The present results suggest that the increases in the incidence of human disease attributable to the additional radiation exposure from the Fukushima Daiichi NPP accident are likely to remain below detectable levels.”

            So who is being more disingenuous?
            Common sense says that if something has such a tiny risk that its incidence is less than that caused by everyday activities like eating, then most people would accept the general idea that people are not “dying from it.”

            Also to be clear I said no one will die from Fukushima. You are switching that to “no one has ever died from a nuclear power accident”.

          • CaptD

            You have no knowledge that the other reactors “weathered the incident without damage”, if you do provide it!

            Nuclear can destroy a countries economy, as japan has proven and 200,000 are still homeless!

          • greenthinker2012

            From the level of hysteria and overblown media reaction that attends even the most minor non-nuclear incident at a nuclear plant, I can guarantee that if there was any problem we would be swamped with media stories.

          • CaptD

            And what is your guarantee worth and to whom?

            To me your words are just more background noise that is being used to somehow make the case that Fukushima is just a tiny problem, when in fact it is a global game changer for the nuclear industry…

            Nothing like even more Japanese radioactive pollution being dumped into Tokyo Bay which empties into the Pacific Ocean to get people angry at Nuclear:

            http://enenews.com/press-watches-as-govt-dumps-radioactive-waste-into-tokyo-bay

          • greenthinker2012

            Step back and listen to your tone.
            You lack perspective.

          • CaptD

            Far off topic, it’s far better to post new info for you to try and deny!
            See my latest “above”…

          • Romi Elnagar

            When you can’t argue the facts, argue personalities, huh?

          • greenthinker2012

            I think the tone of many of the arguments here does not lend itself to a rational discussion. I am not interested in simply having conflict.

          • simonhhh

            I am not interested in simply having conflict…..

            hahahahaha

          • Romi Elnagar

            When you can’t argue the facts, argue personalities, huh?

          • simonhhh

            You lack perspective.??????

            seems you need to look in a mirror

          • Romi Elnagar

            What you say is not proof.

          • greenthinker2012

            For a laugh look up Monty Python’s “Argument Clinic”

            It reminds me of many comment threads on this site.

          • Romi Elnagar

            What you say is not proof.

          • simonhhh

            ask that question to your employers?????

          • simonhhh

            Japan Expert: Second explosion was “more like a bomb” at Fukushima — Spent nuclear fuel flew 30 kilometers away, pellets collected by military — Very strange materials like europium were found — Should have evacuated out to 300 kilometers

          • greenthinker2012

            30 km is a very long way for explosion debris to be scattered.
            It is so incredibly far that it is not believable.
            Do you actually think critically about what you read?

          • greenthinker2012

            30 km is a very long way for explosion debris to be scattered.
            It is so incredibly far that it is not believable.
            Do you actually think critically about what you read?

          • greenthinker2012

            The bankers of Japan have told the prime minister it is the fossil fuel imports needed due to the political shutdown of the nuclear plants that are destroying their economy. It is costing over a billion dollars per month to import fossil fuels.
            Most people are homeless because a 45 foot high tsunami wiped their towns off the map.
            People are moving back into the evacuation zone. There is no physical danger to them from radiation, but there is a lot of unnecessary fear spread by people like you.

          • CaptD

            200,000+ people have a radioactive wasteland to move back to and the Japanese are now still burning radioactive debris which then pollute the Pacific Ocean since they are dumping radioactive waste into the Bay of Japan.

            Your claim of no physical danger is just a lame attempt (with no links to backup your claim) to support the use of nuclear… Until independent experts are given access to Fukushima’s reactor site, the surrounding area and the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima, what the Japanese Gov’t. says is not to be trusted, since they have been caught “twisting” the truth far too many time since 3/11/11.

          • greenthinker2012

            CaptD you just can’t resist your exaggerations. Honestly your addiction to drama weakens your arguments.
            “Radioactive wasteland”…eye-roll. The radiation is no higher than Boulder Colorado and certainly less than Ramsar Iran or Guarapari Brazil where people have been living healthily for generations.
            You are the one making extraordinary claims without backup.
            Anyone who does not trust the Govt can buy their own detector. Many thousands of people have done so and they have posted their measurements online for all to see. Go look up these crowd sourced measurements. No evil boogeyman gov’t to blame, just regular people sharing information.
            Here is one link among many…
            http://www.safecast.org

          • simonhhh

            Well said CaptD….

          • CaptD

            + As far as the Japanese Bankers go, they are just part of the Utility Gangs that are holding the Japanese people in nuclear slavery, so anything they say is highly questionable, since the majority of the Japanese people want to end their use of Nuclear power plants, just like Germany is doing!

            More here:
            Japan’s Nuclear Refugees, Still Stuck in Limbohttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/asia/japans-nuclear-refugees-still-stuck-in-limbo.html?_r=0

          • greenthinker2012

            Bankers understand money. Nuclear slavery….oh god give you hyperbole a rest.

          • simonhhh

            Yuki N. Karakawa, of the Karakawa Foundation and ambassador to the International Association of Emergency Managers, along with Kazuo Aichi, Japan’s defense minister in the 1990s, are both members of the Japan Resilience Initiative….to InfraGard (“a partnership between U.S. businesses and the Federal Bureau of Investigation… dedicated to prevent hostile acts against the United States”), Published February 2013 (At 7:30 in): “300 kilometers should be evacuated, but we did not, Japan did not evacuate. […] In some areas, we can find very strange material like europium and so on. Now Self Defense Forces is collecting all materials. Also spent fuel flew because of a second explosion; it’s more like a bomb, exploded and flew like 30 kilometers. So government, or Self Defense, is now collecting all spent fuel pellets.”….meaning this is an unmitigated disaster of globally immense proportions…ANYONE SAYING ANY DIFFERENT IS A SHILL FOR THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY or GE

          • simonhhh

            Journal Tribune
            Author: Tammy Wells
            Date: Oct. 1, 2013

            An ambassador to an international emergency management organization and a former minister of defense in Japan stopped by the York County Emergency Management Agency Monday [...]….Yuki N. Karakawa, of the Karakawa Foundation and ambassador to the International Association of Emergency Managers, along with Kazuo Aichi, Japan’s defense minister in the 1990s, are both members of the Japan Resilience Initiative. [...]

            He said the disaster at Fukushima will be felt in Japan for a long time, and that there will be long-term medical effects – something he claims the country hadn’t put into their planning systems. [...]…He estimated it will take 150 years for decontamination around Fukushima to be complete.

            Former York County Emergency Management Agency Director Bob Bohlmann said he’d known Karakawa for 15 years, and that he’s done a lot to spread the word about emergency management globally. [...]

          • simonhhh

            paid industry professional troll…

          • simonhhh

            Oct. 18, 2013: An interesting fact for people living on the US west coast is also included in the UNSCEAR report: only about 5% of the directly discharged radiation was deposited within a radius of 80 km from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power station. The rest was distributed in the Pacific Ocean. 3-D simulations have been carried out for the Pacific basin, showing that within 5–6 years, the emissions would reach the North American coastline, with uncertain consequences for food safety and health of the local population. [Source: Behrens, et al. Model simulations on the long-term dispersal of 137Cs released into the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima]

            Voice of America News, October 25, 2013:…Fukushima Radiation Traced in Pacific Seafood [...]…Ken Buesseler, senior marine chemist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution: That radiation will get across the Pacific [...]…Henry Ridgwell, VoA reporter: Buesseler says a bigger concern is the accumulation of isotopes in marine life. Earlier this year, cesium isotopes from Fukushima were found in tuna caught off California….Buesseler: The tuna that were caught off San Diego with the Fukushima cesium isotopes, they were 10 to 20 times lower than they had been off Japan. Now the new releases, the leak from the tanks, they’re changing in character. Strontium-90 has become of more concern because it’s a bone-seeking isotope. That will stay in fish much longer.

          • simonhhh

            Top Japan Nuclear Officials: Fukushima is an unprecedented disaster — “It’s probably the worst nuclear accident to ever happen in the world”….
            Dr. Shunsuke Kondo, Chairman of the Japan Atomic Energy Commission: […] the Great East-Japan earthquake and the resulting tsunami struck people and facilities, including nuclear power plants, located on the Pacific coast of Japan on March 11, 2011. This caused an unprecedented severe accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant of Tokyo Electric Power Company, TEPCO: a loss of all off-site power and on-site power left the unit 1-4 without any emergency power, and the resultant damage to fuel, reactor, and containment of unit 1-3 caused a release of radioactive materials to the region surrounding the site over an extended period of time….r. Tatsujiro Suzuki, Vice-Chairman of the Japan Atomic Energy Commission (At 4:30 in): How serious this accident is? Very, very serious of course. It’s probably the worst nuclear accident ever happen in the world. Because 3 core meltdowns at the same time, 4 explosions, involving 4 reactors […] and yet, still not under control. And that make whole other things, cleaning up the facilities, many other measures should be taken, much more difficult — we’re still in the stage of accident.

          • greenthinker2012

            And yet not a single person has been killed.

          • simonhhh

            wrong….6 workers died with burns….jap govt hiding deaths and incubation period for most cancers is 4 to 6 years…TEPCO is hoping for a reprieve till then…

          • greenthinker2012

            Wow, a government conspiracy! And you uncovered it!
            Wow!

          • CaptD
          • Marushka France

            you are a spammer, greenthinker2012, Arne Gundersen is a ‘real engineer’ with 40 years experience, including being in charge of the disaster at Three Mile Island, so he knows of what he speaks.
            Dr. Helen Caldicott (not cladecott) is highly respected medical doctor with decades of experience.

            Attacking with no substantive comments, is no argument.

          • greenthinker2012

            Ha Ha…First you call me names and then you say “Attacking with no substantive comments, is no argument.”
            That is pretty rich.

            Arne Gunderson is either a liar or is incompetent. He makes statements that defy the laws of physics. For example he said that “prompt criticality” was occurring in the melted corium.
            Go ask a nuclear engineer if this is possible. (It isn’t)
            He says the spent fuel will get so hot if the cooling water left the pool that the Zirconium tubes will explode into flames. The reality according to the laws of physics is easily calculated and the heat output is too low to cause any such damage. I could go on but I think 2 significant whoppers should cause people to start examining what he says more critically.

            Dr Caldicott was a paediatrician for a few years before she became an anti-nuclear author. She knows nothing about nuclear physics and when asked to provide references for her claims will reference her own books.
            She uses all sorts of numbers to give her claims the veneer of rationality but these numbers do not add up. She thinks anyone who has facts that contradict hers are all involved in a giant conspiracy.

            I think people want to believe certain things and it is very difficult to absorb information that contradicts one’s preconceptions. That is why I trust numbers and facts and avoid relying on others’ opinions.

          • CaptD

            Two history-making events coming Tuesday and Wednesday just got better.

            RALPH NADER TO JOIN FORMER JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER NAOTO KAN AND OTHERS FOR NUCLEAR PANEL DISCUSSIONS

            Seminars to focus on ongoing lessons from Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear catastrophe and the future of nuclear power in New York and Boston.

            Tuesday, Oct. 8 in NYC 9:00am EDT (6:00am PDT for live feed)
            https://www.facebook.com/events/482351518538499/

            Wednesday, Oct. 9 in Boston 10:00am EDT (7:00am PDT for live feed)
            https://www.facebook.com/events/1451208401770859/

            This is a global issue and regardless of where you live, these seminars have lessons for all of us to learn. For those who are unable to attend, the New York and Boston panel can be heard on a live feed at http://www.livestream.com/fukushimalessons , these webcasts will be archived at the link for at least 30 days once live.

            http://new.livestream.com/FukushimaLessons?utm_source=Ralph+Nader+and+P.M.+Kan+added+to+panel+on+Nuclear+Power&utm_campaign=Google+Analytics+Test&utm_medium=email

            Please help by spreading the word about these two very significant events. See all the details here. The Facebook page is live. Please make sure you “like” it, invite all your friends and mark “going”. If you’re on Twitter, we’ll be Tweeting from @ongoinglessons using #fukushimalessons for all of our posts.

          • Bev

            Thanks so much, CaptD. A promising update at: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/06/japan-pm-seeks-overseas-help-on-fukushima-leak/2930855/

            Japan PM seeks overseas help on Fukushima leak
            by Mari Yamaguchi, Associated Press
            …………

            Monetary Experts Modeling of new money system which would provide the giant amount of money to try to fix Fukushima safely for everyone:

            from Japan, Professor Kaoru Yamaguchi’s Model of HR 2990
            Professor Yamaguchi (Berkeley, Doshisha Universities) shows that
            Kucinich’s HR 2990 NEED Act: (1) Provides the funding for infrastructure
            repair (which solves the unemployment crisis) (2) Pays off the national
            debt as it comes due (3) Does this without inflation! Click here
            http://www.monetary.org/modeling-the-american-monetary-act/2010/12 to
            watch a video of Professor Yamaguchi’s presentation to the 2010 AMI
            Conference. Wow!
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-zarlenga/congressman-dennis-kucini_b_924004.html

            Model: http://monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/DesignOpenMacro.pdf

            Workings of A Public Money System of Open Macroeconomies
            – Modeling the American Monetary Act Completed –
            (A Revised Version)
            Kaoru Yamaguchi
            Doshisha University

            And from Europe Dr. Michael Kumhof:
            The Chicago Plan Revisited, Michael Kumhof (Deputy Division Chief,
            Modeling Dept., IMF) applies modern computer modeling to the Chicago
            Plan, which support the monetary reforms of HR 2990 and dispel the
            widespread fears of inflation under a government money system.

            Model: http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ChicagoPlanRevisited.pdf

            The Chicago Plan Revisited
            Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof
            …………….

            The bill that all countries need to introduce, HR 2990
            http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HR-2990.pdf , to
            change our money system away from Bankers’ DEBT based money which only profit Banks. However, even Bankers should support this bill, because, if we lack money for best engineering efforts to even try to fix
            Fukushima safely, correctly, and so fail disastrously, then bankers will
            not profit, and may not survive any better than anyone else. So
            bankers, what do you say? There is more profit to staying alive by not
            being irradiated, than profit in a broken, disintegrating debt money
            system.

            http://www.monetary.org/american-money-scene-5-august-16-2009/2009/08

            Historical experience has taught us what we need to do:

            1. Put the Federal Reserve System into the U.S. Treasury.

            2. Stop the banking system creating any part of the money supply.

            3. Create new money as needed by spending it on public
            infrastructure, including human infrastructure, e.g. education and
            health care.

            These 3 elements must all be done together, and are all in draft
            legislative form as the proposed American Monetary Act [In September
            2011, Congressman Dennis Kucinich introduced the National Emergency
            Employment Defense (NEED) Act, HR 2990, into Congress. View details here
            http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HR-2990.pdf ].

            The correct action is for Congress to fulfil its constitutional
            responsibilities to furnish the nation with its money by making the
            American Monetary Act law.

            The correct action for the States is to insist on this Federal action!

            Genuine monetary reform is the solution to the nation’s fiscal problems, and that can only be achieved at the national level.

            snip

            We don’t need any more diversions.

            We citizens have only so much energy and time to devote to changing
            our world for the better. Diverting good people into nonsense condemns
            us to continue suffering unnecessarily. This time of crisis must be
            used for real reform, not diversions.

            So what is the solution?

            It’s the monetary system which must be changed to end the fiscal
            crisis, and State governments cannot do this – it’s a matter for the
            Federal Government.

            Under present constitutional and legal conventions, the only
            institutions that can create money without debt are national treasuries
            and/or central banks. State governments within a federal nation cannot
            do this – the problem can only be solved at the national level.

            Proposals promoting anything else would require a constitutional amendment, which is not necessary.

            snip

            We have a big problem in our economy and society today: too much
            debt. Banking cannot solve this problem because banking produces debt,
            which is the problem. It’s incredible that even now the delusion of
            borrowing ourselves out of debt is still seen as a solution, by anyone,
            let alone so-called reformers. We’re in a deep hole because we listened
            to cheerleaders yelling “keep on digging” without thinking. We cannot
            afford to keep doing this any more.

            Proposing to get governments involved in banking is the complete opposite of a solution, because it keeps the problem in place.

            As American Monetary Institute Chapter Leader, Dick Distelhorst, says:

            “We don’t want to put the government into the banking business – we want to get the banks out of the money creation business!”

          • CaptD

            Great comment, our Fed and the Central Bankers are yet another Fukushima type of problem for mankind!

          • Bev

            Kucinich’s HR 2990 may be the only way to have enough money to fix Fukushima safely, correctly with the best engineers in the world.

          • Bev

            Thanks so much, CaptD. A promising update at: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/06/japan-pm-seeks-overseas-help-on-fukushima-leak/2930855/

            Japan PM seeks overseas help on Fukushima leak
            by Mari Yamaguchi, Associated Press
            …………

            Monetary Experts Modeling of new money system which would provide the giant amount of money to try to fix Fukushima safely for everyone:

            from Japan, Professor Kaoru Yamaguchi’s Model of HR 2990
            Professor Yamaguchi (Berkeley, Doshisha Universities) shows that
            Kucinich’s HR 2990 NEED Act: (1) Provides the funding for infrastructure
            repair (which solves the unemployment crisis) (2) Pays off the national
            debt as it comes due (3) Does this without inflation! Click here
            http://www.monetary.org/modeling-the-american-monetary-act/2010/12 to
            watch a video of Professor Yamaguchi’s presentation to the 2010 AMI
            Conference. Wow!
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-zarlenga/congressman-dennis-kucini_b_924004.html

            Model: http://monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/DesignOpenMacro.pdf

            Workings of A Public Money System of Open Macroeconomies
            – Modeling the American Monetary Act Completed –
            (A Revised Version)
            Kaoru Yamaguchi
            Doshisha University

            And from Europe Dr. Michael Kumhof:
            The Chicago Plan Revisited, Michael Kumhof (Deputy Division Chief,
            Modeling Dept., IMF) applies modern computer modeling to the Chicago
            Plan, which support the monetary reforms of HR 2990 and dispel the
            widespread fears of inflation under a government money system.

            Model: http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ChicagoPlanRevisited.pdf

            The Chicago Plan Revisited
            Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof
            …………….

            The bill that all countries need to introduce, HR 2990
            http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HR-2990.pdf , to
            change our money system away from Bankers’ DEBT based money which only profit Banks. However, even Bankers should support this bill, because, if we lack money for best engineering efforts to even try to fix
            Fukushima safely, correctly, and so fail disastrously, then bankers will
            not profit, and may not survive any better than anyone else. So
            bankers, what do you say? There is more profit to staying alive by not
            being irradiated, than profit in a broken, disintegrating debt money
            system.

            http://www.monetary.org/american-money-scene-5-august-16-2009/2009/08

            Historical experience has taught us what we need to do:

            1. Put the Federal Reserve System into the U.S. Treasury.

            2. Stop the banking system creating any part of the money supply.

            3. Create new money as needed by spending it on public
            infrastructure, including human infrastructure, e.g. education and
            health care.

            These 3 elements must all be done together, and are all in draft
            legislative form as the proposed American Monetary Act [In September
            2011, Congressman Dennis Kucinich introduced the National Emergency
            Employment Defense (NEED) Act, HR 2990, into Congress. View details here
            http://www.monetary.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HR-2990.pdf ].

            The correct action is for Congress to fulfil its constitutional
            responsibilities to furnish the nation with its money by making the
            American Monetary Act law.

            The correct action for the States is to insist on this Federal action!

            Genuine monetary reform is the solution to the nation’s fiscal problems, and that can only be achieved at the national level.

            snip

            We don’t need any more diversions.

            We citizens have only so much energy and time to devote to changing
            our world for the better. Diverting good people into nonsense condemns
            us to continue suffering unnecessarily. This time of crisis must be
            used for real reform, not diversions.

            So what is the solution?

            It’s the monetary system which must be changed to end the fiscal
            crisis, and State governments cannot do this – it’s a matter for the
            Federal Government.

            Under present constitutional and legal conventions, the only
            institutions that can create money without debt are national treasuries
            and/or central banks. State governments within a federal nation cannot
            do this – the problem can only be solved at the national level.

            Proposals promoting anything else would require a constitutional amendment, which is not necessary.

            snip

            We have a big problem in our economy and society today: too much
            debt. Banking cannot solve this problem because banking produces debt,
            which is the problem. It’s incredible that even now the delusion of
            borrowing ourselves out of debt is still seen as a solution, by anyone,
            let alone so-called reformers. We’re in a deep hole because we listened
            to cheerleaders yelling “keep on digging” without thinking. We cannot
            afford to keep doing this any more.

            Proposing to get governments involved in banking is the complete opposite of a solution, because it keeps the problem in place.

            As American Monetary Institute Chapter Leader, Dick Distelhorst, says:

            “We don’t want to put the government into the banking business – we want to get the banks out of the money creation business!”

          • simonhhh

            Arnold “Arnie” Gundersen is a nuclear power expert, nuclear power whistleblower and a former nuclear industry executive and engineer with over 30 years of experience.

            Gundersen questioned the safety of the Westinghouse AP1000, a proposed third-generation nuclear reactor[1] and has expressed concerns about the operation of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Plant. He served as an expert witness in the investigation of the Three Mile Island accident[2] and has provided commentary on the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster….Gundersen is chief engineer of Fairewinds Associates, an energy consulting company that handles money as a 501c3 non-profit organization.[1] He previously worked for Nuclear Energy Services in Danbury, a consulting firm where he was a senior vice president. Gundersen holds a master’s degree in nuclear engineering.

          • greenthinker2012

            Ha Ha…First you call me names and then you say “Attacking with no substantive comments, is no argument.”
            That is pretty rich.

            Arne Gunderson is either a liar or is incompetent. He makes statements that defy the laws of physics. For example he said that “prompt criticality” was occurring in the melted corium.
            Go ask a nuclear engineer if this is possible. (It isn’t)
            He says the spent fuel will get so hot if the cooling water left the pool that the Zirconium tubes will explode into flames. The reality according to the laws of physics is easily calculated and the heat output is too low to cause any such damage. I could go on but I think 2 significant whoppers should cause people to start examining what he says more critically.

            Dr Caldicott was a paediatrician for a few years before she became an anti-nuclear author. She knows nothing about nuclear physics and when asked to provide references for her claims will reference her own books.
            She uses all sorts of numbers to give her claims the veneer of rationality but these numbers do not add up. She thinks anyone who has facts that contradict hers are all involved in a giant conspiracy.

            I think people want to believe certain things and it is very difficult to absorb information that contradicts one’s preconceptions. That is why I trust numbers and facts and avoid relying on others’ opinions.

          • K9Steve

            @marushkafrance:disqus, it seems quite unfair to call @greenthinker2012:disqus a “spammer”. He’s one of the few to make comments on this page that has discussed the actual physics of radiation.

            Note that there are lots of seemingly credible people (e.g., Helen Caldicott) that manage to somehow lose there way. Of particular note is one of a nuclear physicist on the Manhattan Project (Frederick Seitz) who became one of the most vocal critics of smoking-is-bad-for-you studies. A smart guy, but all too human–as we all are. (Or, perhaps the Seitz’s credentials prove that smoking is not bad for us! :-) )

          • simonhhh

            both have been working in the nuclear industry and professor of medical science for more than 30 years…

            Point your finger and 3 pointing back at you….I suggest everyone here with a brain recognizes you are the “crackpot” with HIDDEN agenda…

          • simonhhh

            Physicians: ‘Interesting fact’ for West Coast in new UN report, 95% of Fukushima discharges transported in Pacific; Contamination to impact N. America with ‘uncertain consequences’ for public health — Chemist: Concern over recent releases, “They’re changing in character”

          • simonhhh

            Gunderson has 40 years nuclear industry experience with masters in nuclear engineering….he is no crackpot…

            Green thinker the only crackpot I’m detecting is you spewing lies and innuendo…

          • greenthinker2012

            Gunderson says things that do not follow the laws of physics. How many errors do you allow people before you stop listening to them?

        • Jojo

          “The “waste” issue has been solved”? How? By making it into depleted uranium bullets with it?

          • greenthinker2012

            Mix it into a molten glass matrix so it is insoluble and then encase it in a stainless cask and then bury it Kilometres deep in stable rock formations that have not moved in billions of years. The reality is that the fission products will be decayed in a few hundred years and the long lived components are not very dangerous.

          • simonhhh

            As part of Fairewinds Energy Education, Gundersen has hosted numerous videos and provided updates about the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster.[12][13] He was also a regular guest on media outlets such as Democracy Now andCNN discussing the issue.[3][4][14] In an interview with Al Jazeera, Gundersen referred to Fukushima as “the biggest industrial catastrophe in the history of mankind”.[15]

            In September 2013, Gundersen accused the Japanese government of lying to the Japanese people after securing its position as host of the 2020 Olympic Games when he said that the disaster was under control, and that there existed no health concerns. The plant, Gundersen said, “is leaking into the Pacific Ocean extensively” and that thyroid cancers, deformed fish and radioactive animals were being discovered.[16] Arnie suggested that the contamination could be contained by building a two metre thick Zeolite wall around the reactors, which would absorb the cesium.[6]

            In early October 2013, Gundersen stated that due to newly discovered leaks and impending tropical storms, the potential existed for a release of radiation 15,000 times that of Hiroshima…..meaning a global disaster in the making…

            near term extinction event

        • simonhhh

          “technical issues have been solved”
          say no more….. so called “greenthinker”?????????

        • simonhhh

          CHINA POST Oct. 27, 2013:

          Nothing remotely similar has been attempted before and while everyone – nuclear experts, government officials, environmental groups and the public – agrees that the rods [in the Unit 4 pool] must be moved to more secure storage,

          [I]t is feared that any error of judgment could lead to a massive release of radiation into the atmosphere

          Unit 4 at the plant contains an alarming 10 times as much caesium-137 as was at Chernobyl, experts say

          [A] spokesman for Tepco [...] admitted, however, that it was not clear whether any of the rods were damaged or if debris in the pool would complicate the recovery effort. Charles Perrow, a professor emeritus at Yale University
          [He's] made even more strident warnings
          “Conditions in the unit 4 pool, 100 feet from the ground, are perilous, and if any two of the rods touch it could cause a nuclear reaction that would be uncontrollable [and] would require the evacuation of surrounding areas including Tokyo”

          “[Then] the common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission andall of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years”
          Unnamed nuclear energy expert who’s monitored Tepco during Fukushima crisis …“I would prefer to have had some US companies that are experts on spent fuel decommissioning brought in to assist”….[S]hould the worst happen at the Fukushima plant [...] Some of the contamination would undoubtedly reach Tokyo…..“If so, go up to a very high floor — Radioactive particles are heavy, so keep out of basements”

      • greenthinker2012

        The “Waste” issue has been solved. If you truly wish to know you should go talk to a real nuclear engineer. The technical issues have been solved and it is a purely political issue.

      • simonhhh

        Joseph….you nailed it ….I seen this industry over 35 years….there are 60 plus 1st generation GE reactors…they are all leaking and equally DANGEROUS….a time bomb waiting to explode in first world economies….period

    • greenthinker2012

      If your question was sincere and not sarcastic, the answer is that nuclear is the safest form of power generation and has the ability to displace fossil fuels.
      Google “deaths per terrawatt” to see how the different energy sources compare for safety.
      Look at how France was able to decarbonize their electricity production in about a decade.

      • Kanon25

        Tell me about how its going in Belarus and Fukishima then? Its not just about waste. It is about permanent damage to our planet. Per definition not sustainable.

        Nuclear is great for wreaking havoc and making war, yes. When the science of waste storage catches up to the science of splitting the atom, let us know. But as of now this is half-baked technology when it comes to energy generation.

        • greenthinker2012

          The wildlife in Belarus is doing great. Fukushima is no more radioactive than Boulder Colorado. We currently are killing the planet with fossil fuels. I think you have things backwards.

          • Kanon25

            “The wildlife in Belarus is doing great.”

            - mutations about and worse yet adults and children have massive increase in cancer. And the plant will continue to be toxic when your children are dead:
            http://rt.com/in-motion/chernobyl-new-shell-structure-512/

            Telling then, to hear you feel all is great in Belarus.

            “Fukushima is no more radioactive than Boulder Colorado.”
            - I’m sure the people there who needlessly will die of cancer in Japan over the next hundreds of years are happy to hear how unconcerned you are. Exactly why they should never have trusted you charlatans

            “We currently are killing the planet with fossil fuels.”

            - the nuclear industry propaganda is to hide the poison they peddle by pointing to fossil fuels, which are in fact a fuel source we should be getting away from. Much like I suppose Hitler would have told the Poles that Stalin was the bogeyman. That puts you in the Goebbels role, which is appropriate given the claptrap you peddle for your industry

          • greenthinker2012

            I will stand by the internet meme “Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies”.
            Invoked, as a rule, it marks the end of a discussion when a Nazi analogy is made, with the writer who made the analogy being considered to have lost the argument.

          • Kanon25

            You can make uṕ whatever you like in your head. Just dont think that your propaganda or pretence has any connection with reality.

            Nuclear energy produces dangerous waste and by products that none of you have any control over. Not in a mere 30 year period and certainly not in the thousand plus years of danger.

            No amount of red herrings will help you deflect from these basic facts. You are producing deadly waste that you have no clue what will happen to. Nor do you care, as evidence by your flippand and heartless remarks over Chernobyl and Fukishima.

          • greenthinker2012

            Your post is essentially information free.

          • Kanon25

            You must have read your own posts and got confused, propaganda man. I will repeat again:

            Nuclear energy produces dangerous waste and byproducts that none of you have any control over. Not in a mere 30 year period and certainly not in the thousand plus years of danger.

          • greenthinker2012

            I understand your assertions but they are not backed up by anything other than your opinion.
            You have an irrational fear of radiation.
            You reject science and facts.
            You attack people personally when they challenge your beliefs.

            I think a healthier approach is to be open to new facts. If the result is that you learn something you did not know previously then you are a winner. If you show me something I did not previously know then I am a winner.

            Instead of calling me names, look at this as an opportunity.

          • Kanon25

            “You have an irrational fear of radiation.”
            No, the kind of radiation that nuclear waste produces is extreme, highly toxic and highly unstable. And the power plants clearly cannot withstand extreme incidents – which do happen. And the industry has no method of containing said waste safely for any long period. Yet this waste can cause catastophic damage for hundreds and thousands of years.

            All rational and factual.

            No one is going to take you seriously when you continue to emulate Goebbels.
            Go home to your paymasters and come up with something better.

          • greenthinker2012

            How is nuclear waste radiation different from natural radiation?

          • Kanon25

            Why dont you ask the farmers and fishers in Fukushima what the difference is?

          • greenthinker2012

            You made the assertion. Can you explain the difference or not?

          • Kanon25

            I made the assertion that the nuclear industry lies about the ability to contain toxic nuclear waste for a thousand years – obvious when they could not correctly predict the conditions a nuclear plant would need to survive in a mere 30 year span.

            You were unable to deny this, so are looking for red herrings. This aint a fish market, bud, although your agenda stinks.

          • greenthinker2012

            Your demeanour is childish and tiresome.
            You have no interest in taking an opportunity to learn something new.
            You are immune to new facts.
            You are a waste of time.

          • Kanon25

            Dont attack me – address the thousand years of toxic waste and the plants that cannot be relied on.

            You have offered no support for your contention that the nuclear industry has a reliable solution thousand years of toxic waste. When you find such facts, bring them.

            Until then, stop whinging. You are nothing but a paid voice.And a poor one at that.

          • greenthinker2012

            The information is out there if you were interested in finding it.

            The Actinides can be recycled into a fast spectrum reactor and consumed while making more power. The remaining fission products can be formed into inert, insoluble glass bricks and then buried.

            http://www.pnnl.gov/main/publications/external/technical_reports/PNNL-20749.pdf

            North America has many thousands of square miles of stable bedrock that has not moved or changed in a billion+ years. This bedrock would isolate the glass from the environment for thousands if not millions of years even though it would only need to be stored for 300 years.

            That is one example of a reliable solution.

            There are no technical barriers to the storage of nuclear waste, only political barriers.

            Notice I didn’t call you names or try to insult you at the end of my post as you always do?
            I challenge you to do the same and refrain from your usual tactics.

          • Kanon25

            1) There has been no suitable complete solution found that can guarantee the integrity of the poisonous waste that nuclear energy produces. Which you very well know. The industry has never shown a convincing one, and politics was not the problem – science was.

            No surprise there, as the nuclear industry has not even been able to produce nuclear plants that can cope with the power of nature’s whims during less than one century of operation. So, never mind the thousand year waste problem that you havent solved, you also are polluting the earth NOW.

            2) When you tell lies, dont expect others to sit around while you do it.

            Now, why don’t you tell us who PAYS you to run around advocating the poisoning of the earth?

          • greenthinker2012

            You keep repeating yourself but provide no evidence or support for your arguments.
            You accuse me of lying but again show no evidence.
            You attack my motives but again show no evidence.
            Your arguments are weak or non-existent.

          • Kanon25

            You keep repeating yourself but are unable to explain to us how an industry that cannot guarantee the safety of its plants can keep highly toxic waste safe for tens and hundreds of centuries.

            You also fail to answer the question: say who pays you to spread propaganda.

          • greenthinker2012

            Who pays you to keep the world burning fossil fuels?

          • Kanon25

            The underlying propaganda you are peddling is ” We should use more, more more. Only question is Nuclear vs fossils. Fossils bad, nuclear green”. This is not only propaganda, is is so ham-fisted, its not even funny.

            Real greens are not out trying to sell MORE energy consumption.

            Why pays you to peddle propaganda, sir. Why dont you want to say.

          • greenthinker2012

            You are desperate that I am somehow paid or morally compromised. It upsets you that another person, after careful consideration of the evidence, has a view different than yours.

          • Kanon25

            Ah yes, after exposing your false opposites with fossil fuels, you dont want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

            So, back to the matter then: who pays you?

          • greenthinker2012

            Who pays you?

          • Kanon25

            I take it that it would be embarasing if we found out who pays you to spread lies – using a propaganda-filled handle, no less. Very subtle, fellas – not!

            So no doubt you will refuse to answer.

          • greenthinker2012

            yawn. another tiresome, information-free posting by kanon25.

          • Kanon25

            Desperately seeking information, “greenthinker2012″, since you claim to be the sole provider of it: who pays you to go online and peddle nuclear industry agenda using propaganda usernames?

          • greenthinker2012

            Who pays you?

          • simonhhh

            Fukushima Daiichi: 249,000 Bq/kg of cesium

            Taylor Wilson, nuclear scientist on Third Eye Weekly, Sept. 12, 2013 (at 51:15 in): In Japan there is […] a serious problem — What especially got washed out in the rain in Japan and then concentrated in low-lying areas. There are significant contamination problems throughout Japan, even in Tokyo for example, major metropolitan area.

            Arnie Gundersen, Fairewinds’ chief engineer on KZYX’s Renewable Energy Hour, Sept. 9, 2013 (at 58:30 in): Tokyo is contaminated. […] We were working with an embassy […] in Tokyo during the accident […] They sent us the filters for a period of months and I’ve got the numbers. Tokyo was heavily contaminated in April, May and June of 2011.

          • Romi Elnagar

            This man clearly is a fraud. He calls himself “GREEN Thinker,” but if he thought at all, he would know that the alternative to nuclear energy is GREEN energy, not fossil fuels. Clearly he is paid by somebody (probably from our tax money) to propagate his lies.

          • simonhhh

            Title: Concentration of Strontium-90 at Selected Hot Spots in Japan
            Source: PLoS ONE
            Authors: Steinhauser G, Schauer V, Shozugawa K
            Date Published: March 7, 2013

            Southern wind directions and rainfall explain the relatively high activity levels in the remote hot spot in Kashiwa and Yokohama, which are located close to Tokyo. Accordingly, also local environmental conditions seem to be responsible for the surprisingly low contamination levels at spots [...] quite close to the damaged reactors of Fukushima NPP [...] Our results once again evidence that distance from the source alone is no sufficient factor for the prediction of a contamination level at a certain spot after a nuclear accident.

          • simonhhh

            Study: Contamination in Tokyo suburb 3 times higher than area just 1 mile from Fukushima Daiichi — Nuclear Scientist: Significant contamination in Tokyo, a serious problem

          • simonhhh

            Source: Asahi Shimbun (Weekly Aera)
            Author: Shoji Nomura
            Date: October 8, 2013

            A citizens group said it measured high radiation levels at candidate venues for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, but the metropolitan government disputes the data and the International Olympic Committee has shown little interest. [...]

            The group said some of the potential venues for the Summer Games had radiation levels exceeding the Tokyo metropolitan government’s standards for decontamination [...]

            Kunikazu Noguchi, an associate professor of radiation protection at Nihon University

            “There is no doubt that some Olympic venues with higher than normal airborne radiation levels have been contaminated”

            He believes that radioactive materials have spread throughout the greater Tokyo metropolitan area

            “In both the Tohoku and Kanto regions, we are now at a stage of moving from an emergency situation to a more normal one”

            “In order to move back to a normal situation as quickly as possible, the basic principle for radiation protection is to quickly decontaminate any area where readings exceeding 0.23 microsievert per hour are found”

            “Saying there is no problem without even measuring for radiation is the same response as the Democratic Party of Japan government immediately after the Fukushima nuclear accident”

            “As host nation for the Olympics, it is imperative that radiation levels at the venues be released to the world”

          • simonhhh

            Asahi: High radiation levels found at possible Olympic sites — Japan Professor: Radioactive materials have spread throughout greater Tokyo; Region remains in “emergency situation

          • Romi Elnagar

            Why don’t you go stand in the sunlight next to the spent fuel pool at Fukushima Reactor 4 and find out?

          • greenthinker2012

            Why don’t you spend some time learning about engineering and critical thinking instead of posting information free comments?
            Standing beside the spent fuel pools would not pose any risk of radiation exposure. I know you want to imagine Fukushima as some sort of “scary-super-danger zone” but that is not reality.

          • Gforce27

            It is different, because most “natural” forms of radiation, like potasium 40, are vastly weaker than man made radionuclides. http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-science-alert-fukushima-radiation-cant-be-compared-to-bananas-or-x-rays/5329369, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDgnBqBJZNc. Your claim is disingenuous beyond belief.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Thank you for your comments. The fact is, the Russians entombed Chernobyl and evacuated the population near the plant. Even the Japanese have evacuated people from around Fukushima, and there certainly were deaths among the workers in both stricken nuclear plants when they were needed to clean up the disasters.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_50

          • greenthinker2012

            There have been no deaths attributable to radiation at Fukushima.
            The article you linked to does not support your assertion that there were deaths at Fukushima. Having the media come up with a catchy title for the workers and then having them predict their death is not the same as actual deaths.

          • Romi Elnagar

            You are a liar and a shill for the nuclear industry. I don’t know why I should do your research for you, but suffice to say there have been deaths among the workers at Fukushima Daiichi, and among the population which formerly lived there. If it was so safe, how come they considered evacuating ALL OF TOKYO ( and most people left town if they could) after the disaster?

            Oh, I guess they just did it for fun.

            Anyway, here’s are some information about Fukushima to look, at if you dare.

            *Radhika Seth. “Over 13,000 file second criminal complaint against Tepco, government for Fukushima disaster.” (16 Nov 2012)
            http://japandailypress.com/over-13000-file-second-criminal-complaint-against-tepco-government-for-fukushima-disaster-1618545
            * Joe Schneider. “Tokyo Electric sued by U.S. sailors exposed to radiation.” (27 Dec 2012)
            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/tokyo-electric-sued-by-u-s-sailors-exposed-to-radiation.html
            * Iori Mochizuki. “97,000,000 Bq/m3 of Tritium detected in groundwater of 300 m3 leakage tank area / 1.5 times as much as one day before.” (13 Sep 2013)
            fukushima-diary.com/2013/09/97000000-bqm3-of-tritium-detected-in-groundwater-of-300m3-leakage-tank-area-1-5-times-much-as-one-day-before/
            * ______________. “Architect of Fukushima’s Reactor 3 warns of massive hydrovolcanic explosion.” (19 Nov 2011)
            http://www.sott.net/article/237946-Architect-of-Fukushima-s-Reactor-3-warns-of-massive-hydrovolcanic-explosion
            * ______________. “Breaking news: the measurement of plutonium was abandoned in Japan.” (3 Oct 2011)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/10/breaking-news-the-measurement-of-plutonium-was-abandoned-in-japan/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FukushimaDiary+%28Fukushima+Diary%29
            *______________. “Cardiac arrest case was doubled after 311.” (16 Mar 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/03/cardiac-arrest-case-was-doubled-after-311/
            * ______________. “[Column] 4 reasons why we must be worried about Reactor number 4 other than earthquake.” (11 Dec 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/12/column-4-reasons-why-we-must-be-worried-about-reactor4-other-than-earthquake/
            *______________. “[Express] ‘This is how incineration ash of sewage sludge is stocked in Kanazawa Ward, Yohohama.” (16 Jan 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/01/express-this-is-how-incineration-ash-of-sewage-sludge-is-stocked-in-kanazawa-ward-yokohama/
            *______________. “Fukushima Medical University[:] ‘The younger you are the more slowly thyroid cancer develops.” (6 Nov 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/11/fukushima-medical-university-the-younger-you-are-the-more-slowly-thyroid-cancer-develops/
            *______________. “[Video] Fukushima farm’s dead cattle and calves of Fukushima Syndrome: the smell even comes to the bed.” (11 Oct 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/10/photos-fukushima-farms-dead-cattle-and-calves-of-fukushima-syndrome-the-smell-even-comes-to-the-bed/
            *______________. “Japanese politely giving up their lives.” (19 March 2012)
            http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/03/japanese-politely-giving-up-their-lives/
            * Congressman Edward J. Markey. “Fukushima fallout: regulatory loopholes at U.S. nuclear plants.” (15 Apr, 2011)
            http://markey.house.gov/sites/markey.house.gov/files/documents/Fuk%20Fallout%20Report%20May%2012%2C%20011_0.pdf
            * ______________. “Markey statement on one year Fukushima anniversary and NRC votes first safety updates.” (9 Mar 2012)
            http://markey.house.gov/press-release/markey-statement-one-year-fukushima-anniversary-and-nrc-votes-first-safety-upgrades
            *______________. “Regulatory meltdown: how four Nuclear Regulatory Commissioners conspired to delay and weaken nuclear reactor safety in the wake of Fukushima.” (12 Sep 2011)
            http://markey.house.gov/sites/markey.house.gov/files/documents/regulatory_meltdown_12.09.11-6.pdf
            *Akio Matsumura. “Experts explain effects of radioactive water at Fukushima.” (5 Jun 2013)
            http://akiomatsumura.com/2013/06/experts-explain-effects-of-radioactive-water-at-fukushima.html
            * Joseph J. Mangano. “Fukushima’s nuclear casualties: let the counting begin.” (15 Aug 2012)
            http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/15/fukushimas-nuclear-casualties/
            * Sophie Knight. “REMEMBERING 311: Fukushima workers brave radiation for 1000 yen an hour.” (10 Mar 2012)
            http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201203100018
            * Paul Jobin. “Dying for TEPCO? Fukushima’s nuclear contract workers.”
            http://www.japanfocus.org/-Paul-Jobin/3523
            * Hiroshi Hiyama. “Around 2,000 Fukushima workers at risk of thyroid cancer due to radiation: TEPCO.” (19 Jul 2013)
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/fukushima-workers-risk-thyroid-cancer_n_3622529.html
            *Linda Pentz Gunther. “Life under the radioactive cloud: unintentional infanticide.” (14 Jun 2012)
            http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/14/life-under-the-radioactive-cloud/
            * Arnie Gundersen. “Lethal levels of radiation at Fukushima: what are the implications?” (3 Aug 2011)
            http://www.fairewinds.org/content/lethal-levels-radiation-fukushima-what-are-implications
            * ______________. “Epidemiologist Steve Wing discusses the increases in cancer rates after Three Mile Island accident. (part 2)” (25 Mar 2009)
            http://www.fairewinds.org/content/epidemiologist-steve-wing-discusses-increases-cancer-rates-after-three-mile-island-acciden-0
            * ______________. “Cancer risk to young children near Fukushima Daiichi underestimated.” (17 Jan 2012)
            http://www.fairewinds.org/content/cancer-risk-young-children-near-fukushima-daiichi-underestimated
            * Samuel S. Epstein, M.D. ” Nuclear power causes cancer: what industry doesn’t want you to know.” (4 Aug 2009)
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samuel-s-epstein/nuclear-power-causes-canc_b_251057.html

            * ENE News. “Radiation expert: ‘North America has received quite a large fallout’–incredible increase in cancer, not just for Japan but for northern hemisphere (VIDEO).” (13 Dec 2011)
            http://enenews.com/radiation-expert-north-america-received-quite-large-fallout-incredible-increase-cancer-japan-northern-hemisphere-video Happy
            * ______________. “Report from Japan: Fukushima doctors can’t express anxieties about radiation or say things that are against what medical leaders decide to make public (AUDIO).” (7 Apr 2012)
            http://enenews.com/report-japan-fukushima-doctors-express-anxieties-about-radiation-against-medical-leaders-decide-make-public-audio
            *______________. “NHK: US halts shipments of Japanese beef due to concerns of radioactive contamination from Fukushima disaster (VIDEO).” (17 Aug 2012)
            http://enenews.com/nhk-us-halts-shipments-of-japanese-beef-due-to-concerns-of-radioactive-contamination-from-fukushima-disaster-video
            *Deborah Dupre. “8 main radiation sickness signs (slideshow).” (18 Jun 2011)
            http://www.examiner.com/article/8-main-radiation-sickness-signs-slideshow
            *______________. “Am women pay high price for Fukushima cover-up: 35% more dead babies.” (22 Jun 2011)
            http://www.examiner.com/article/am-women-pay-high-price-for-fukushima-cover-up-35-more-dead-babies
            * Adam Broinowski. “Fukushima and the transnationality of radioactive nuclear contamination: visualizing radioactivity and its impacts on humanity.” (14 Oct 2013)
            http://www.globalresearch.ca/fukushima-and-the-transnationality-of-radioactive-nuclear-contamination-visualizing-radiactivity-and-its-impacts-on-humanity/5354238

            There. Happy now? Maybe you will take this list to your masters in Washington, so the NSA (fascists) can shut these sources down. That was your aim all along, wasn’t it? Along with reporting on me and anybody else foolish enough to argue with a paid informant.

          • greenthinker2012

            You have done a great job of documenting the fear and the reaction to the fear and the deaths caused by the reaction to the fear. I agree with you that people are afraid of radiation and that this fear is harmful.

            The fear is not founded in science.

            The media is spreading this fear and people are being harmed by this fear.
            You sound like you have been convinced by the media.
            I probably will never convince you, but please consider what it would mean if you are wrong. Please consider why the vast majority of reporting is incorrect.
            Unlike most of the lies told by the media, the truth of this topic can be figured out using science.
            There is an objective reality that can be learned and verified and no amount of propaganda can change the reality.
            You have demonstrated that you have a passion for research.
            If something I say does not fit with what others have told you, then that is a perfect opportunity to research why.
            You don’t have to convince me of anything.
            P.S. Arnie Gundersen is a fraud. He regularly says things that defy the laws of physics. If someone says something provably wrong once, that could be a mistake. If they say provably wrong things over and over, they have an agenda.

          • Romi Elnagar

            You say, “Please consider what it would mean if you are wrong.”

            Nothing will happen at all, because the “nuclear mafia” that is shoving nuclear power down our throats will go right on doing just that, and I am powerless to do anything about it one way or the other.

            And now I am going to ask you to consider what it would mean if YOU are wrong.

            If YOU are wrong, and I am right, then nuclear power is the instrument by which the human race will wipe out all living things on this planet.

            Arnie Gundersen a fraud? No, I don’t think so. What sort of expertise and experience in nuclear engineering do YOU possess?

          • greenthinker2012

            I understand physics well enough to know a lot of what Gundersen says is impossible.
            I am not going to post my credentials online, and even if I did it would be a meaningless appeal to authority.

            I understand physics well enough that I am comfortable with nuclear power.
            I am able to put the dangers it poses into perspective.
            Your statement that nuclear power will wipe out all living things is an exaggeration. Show me a single example where this has happened.
            As for any sort of mafia, I am most worried about the fossil fuel mafia which is currently killing our planet.
            My offer to you was sincere.
            If you are interested in challenging your beliefs I will spend the time to help you understand the physics well enough to put the dangers of nuclear power into perspective.
            If you are wrong it would require a shift in how you view the world.
            It would require you to examine a number of your closely held beliefs about how you construct your world view.
            That is a valuable experience regardless if the world continues using nuclear or not.
            If you are determined to hold onto your beliefs then so be it.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Greenthinker,

            I posted a whole list of articles specifically answering your concerns, and you dismissed it. Now, you tell me that you have offered to teach me physics, yet you refuse to give us your credentials for doing so, and I suppose you don’t have any, because you said “I would say that NOT having a Nuclear Physics Degree would be ESSENTIAL in “knowing” this because actual knowledge would force one to realize what utter BS the statement is.” You also say things like,” The amount of radioactive material in the ocean (and elsewhere) can be measured. There is no need to guess. That is the beauty of science.”

            Yes, and the beauty of actually being a scientist is that you would know how difficult, if not impossible, actually doing the measurements of the radioactivity in the oceans would be. If it ever has been done, then I challenge you post us the information and prove me wrong.

            In any case, thank you for your offer to teach me physics, but my husband is a Ph.D. research chemist and can teach me all the physics I need to know. HE never disagrees with anything I tell him about nuclear reactors, because it is true that they are dangerous.

          • greenthinker2012

            I wonder how serious you are at searching out information that challenges your own statements. It only took me 5 minutes of searching to find this calculation on how much radioactivity is in the ocean. The numbers the author uses are credible, the methodology is credible.
            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/06/991377/-How-Radioactive-Is-the-Ocean
            Ask your chemist husband whether a statement by Gundersen is credible. Ask him if “prompt criticality” is possible in spent nuclear fuel that has melted into a blob and thus has no moderator interspersed within the uranium matrix to slow the neutrons.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Lazy boy,

            I read the Kos article (it is interesting that you go to Daily Kos, and I will come back to this later).

            At the very beginning of the artilce, (second para to be precise) this is what it says: “Even a moment’s reflection would suggest that this fascinating question is a very difficult one to approach. (Calculating the mass of seawater, if it’s any consolation, would be even more difficult,
            owing to compositional effects and hydraulic effects, as pressure, and
            thus density, varies with depth.)”

            It is the next para, though, that makes me wonder how well you do your homework. “Poking around for figures estimating the volume of earth’s oceans…”

            So, everything that follows is an ESTIMATE. I said. What I wrote was about “ACTUALLY DOING THE MEASUREMENTS,” which anybody with any experience in doing actual scientific research knows is a completely different matter. It involves things like CALCULUS and PHYSICS and matters which you would like us to believe you understand, but which clearly you don’t.

            If I were still a teacher, I would call your mommy and daddy and tell them to turn off the TV and make you do your homework.

          • greenthinker2012

            The estimate is close enough to validate my original statement. The amount of radioactivity in the oceans is in the range of BILLIONS of TONNES while the amount of radioactive material that has leaked from Fukushima is measured in KILOGRAMS. The difference between these numbers is so huge that errors in the estimate due to hydrological effects etc do not change the estimate enough to be relevant.
            I never vouched for the accuracy of the daily kos blog as a whole.
            I found a credible article after only 5 minutes of searching while you claimed that it was impossible to know how much radioactivity there was in the ocean. Apparently my homework skills are a fair bit better than yours.
            And speaking of homework, did you ask your chemist partner about the possibility for prompt criticality?

          • simonhhh

            Title: Xenon-133 and caesium-137 releases into the atmosphere from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant: determination of the source term, atmospheric dispersion, and deposition
            Source: Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics; Atmos. Chem. Phys., 12, 2313–2343, 2012 http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/12/2313/2012/ doi:10.5194/acp-12-2313-2012
            Authors: A. Stohl1, P. Seibert2, G. Wotawa3, D. Arnold2,4, J. F. Burkhart1, S. Eckhardt1, C. Tapia5, A. Vargas4, and T. J. Yasunari6
            1 NILU – Norwegian Institute for Air Research, Kjeller, Norway
            2 Institute of Meteorology, University of Natural Resources and Life Sciences, Vienna, Austria
            3 Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics, Vienna, Austria
            4 Institute of Energy Technologies (INTE), Technical University of Catalonia (UPC), Barcelona, Spain
            5 Department of Physics and Nucelar Engineering (FEN),Technical University of Catalonia (UPC), Barcelona, Spain
            6 Universities Space Research Association, Goddard Earth Sciences and Technology and Research, Columbia, MD 21044, USA
            Date: Received: 8 October 2011 – Published in Atmos. Chem. Phys. Discuss.: 20 October 2011
            Revised: 1 February 2012 – Accepted: 23 February 2012 – Published: 1 March 2012
            We explore the main dispersion and deposition patterns of the radioactive cloud, both regionally for Japan as well as for the entire Northern Hemisphere. While at first sight it seemed fortunate that westerly winds prevailed most of the time during the accident, a different picture emerges from our detailed analysis. Exactly during and following the period of the strongest 137Cs emissions on 14 and 15 March as well as after another period with strong emissions on 19 March, the radioactive plume was advected over Eastern Honshu Island, where precipitation deposited a large fraction of 137Cs The winds transported the FD-NPP emissions towards the Pacific Ocean most of the time, while Japan was affected only occasionally. While this seemed like a relatively fortunate situation for Japan during the accident event, a different picture emerges from our detailed analysis. Exactly during and following the period of the highest 137Cs emission rates on 14 and 15 March, the FD-NPP plume was advected towards Japan and affected large areas in the east of Honshu Island. The advection towards Japan was triggered by a developing cyclone, which produced precipitation on 15 March,leading to the deposition of large fractions of the airborne 137Cs over Japanese land.

          • simonhhh

            Worst radiation plume from Fukushima was blown over Tokyo on March 14-15 — “This was the main deposition event over Japan for the entire disaster” — Large fractions of cesium fell on land

          • simonhhh

            Prime Minister Abe Shinzo said Sept. 7, 2013: “It has never done and will never do any damage to Tokyo. There are no health-related problems until now, and nor will there be in the future — I make the statement to you in the most emphatic and unequivocal way.”…More from Abe: “I explained about the safety of Tokyo. There were some misunderstandings but I explained the situation. I explained about the water contamination in Fukushima and explained that the contaminated water was blocked.”

            NPR’s All Things Considered, Sept. 3, 2013 – Geoff Brumfiel, NPR: Groundwater is constantly flowing through the basement of the plant carrying radioactivity from melted reactor cores out to sea [...] Ken Buesseler, Senior scientist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute who studies ocean around Fukushima: It’s almost impossible to stop groundwater, you put a damn in a river and it will go over and around, or under…..meaning the dangerous nature of this ongoing global catastrophe…ANYONE saying anything different is an industry SHILL….

          • simonhhh

            Japan Prime Minister’s Fiction vs. Fact: Fukushima contamination has never done any damage to Tokyo; Radioactive water at plant was “blocked” — Study: Tokyo was contaminated — Experts: Radioactive water is constantly flowing out to sea and almost impossible to stop

          • greenthinker2012

            The website fukushima-diary is a great place to start your research. It contains many factual errors and shows bias. This may be inadvertent or purposeful I don’t know.
            It is human nature to seek out information that confirms our beliefs. It is very difficult to know when one is confirming one’s bias and filtering out contrary information. That is why I like science. It provides numbers and is verifiable. When I find a verifiable fact that indicates that my “confirmation bias” is clouding my understanding I find it disturbing and exciting.

          • simonhhh

            ROMI…well said again

          • Romi Elnagar

            Why don’t you ask Sen. Harry Reid if he still is opposed to having nuclear waste dumped in his state?
            And btw, when was the last time you ate a plutonium sandwich? Go ahead. I DARE you to.

          • greenthinker2012

            I eat food that is radioactive all the time. I don’t understand what your point is. Could you restate it?

          • simonhhh

            Report: Tokyo tap water in crisis? Comes from area that is radioactive as Chernobyl’s ‘contaminated areas’ — 100,000-300,000 Bq/kg

          • Gforce27

            I have a great idea, why don’t you prove how safe Cesium, strontium, and plutonium are, by ingesting and or sprinkling it on your skin, the amounts equal to the potassium 40 in a banana. Please get back to us with your results (um, er, symptoms.)

          • greenthinker2012

            Your challenge is a straw man argument. I don’t think anyone has ever advocated sprinkling concentrated isotopes on skin as safe. However at the concentrations we are talking about in the oceans, there is no safety issue. I eat ocean caught fish and am not worried about the radiation. I am more concerned about the mercury and cadmium that are in the fish due to fossil fuel burning.

          • greenthinker2012

            Sen. Harry Reid’s campaign is heavily financed by the fossil fuel industry.

            It is no surprise that he opposes the one power source that could replace fossil fuels.

          • greenthinker2012

            An interesting fact is that Pu is less toxic than Caffeine by weight.
            Yet we guzzle coffee without a second thought.

          • Romi Elnagar

            This is an absolute LIE.

            “Spent fuel rods also contain plutonium, one of
            the most toxic substances in the universe, that gets formed during the
            later stages of a reactor core’s operation.”

            http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-japan-fukushima-insight-idUKBRE97D00M20130814

          • greenthinker2012

            The article quotes Gundersen who is not a credible source of information.

            Here is an interesting article about a fellow who was injected with a massive amount of Pu and lived to a ripe old age.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stevens

            Why do you believe Pu to be the most toxic substance in the universe?
            Your chemist husband should be able to point to many substances that are more toxic.

          • Romi Elnagar

            You are hopeless.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Why should I bother my husband over the nonsense from an idiot like yourself?

          • greenthinker2012

            Romi I have tried to have a rational discussion with you but
            you seem unable to stop spewing insults and you conduct yourself childishly.

            You prove yourself to be a hypocrite when you say things like:
            “When you can’t argue the facts, argue personalities, huh?”
            And then proceed to insult me with comments like:
            “You are a liar and a shill” and “Lazy boy.”

            It is shocking that you think you have the right to speak to people in such a rude manner and that after doing so you expect people to keep engaging with you.

            I doubt your husband teaches you any physics since you seem hostile to ideas that don’t fit your preconceptions.
            And maybe he never disagrees with anything you tell him because he
            does not want to be subjected to your name calling and insults.

            Of course you will probably interpret my withdrawal from further discussion with you as proof that you somehow won the argument.
            Maybe this is how you win all your arguments, by driving the other person away and then claiming victory.

            To paraphrase your earlier comment…
            I would call your mommy and daddy and tell them to teach you the basics of civil discourse.

          • Romi Elnagar

            When you tell me lies like plutonium is less toxic than coffee, you deserve to be addressed the way I did. I don’t talk to most people that way, but you insult my intelligence with such drivel, and your refusal to read any of the long list of citations that I gave earlier shows me that you are indeed lazy, if not a paid informant for the government.

          • simonhhh

            Wall Street Journal, Nov. 15, 2011:

            Discoveries of patches of high radioactivity known as hot spots in bedroom communities just outside of Tokyo have puzzled experts and alarmed residents. A new study offers a simple answer to why these towns well over 100 miles from Fukushima became so contaminated: rain that fell between March 21 and 23. [...]

            Little attention has gone to the rainfall that started in the morning of March 21 and lasted until early hours of March 23. The news [sic] study concludes that this round of precipitation dumped relatively large doses of tainted materials to a swath of land much farther away from the plant that covered parts of Tochigi, Saitama, Chiba prefectures and Tokyo

          • simonhhh

            WSJ: High radioactivity has experts ‘puzzled’ and Tokyo-area residents alarmed — Study says “relatively large doses of tainted materials” were dumped on parts of Tokyo

          • simonhhh

            “Pu is less toxic than Caffeine by weight…??????”

            Toxicity

            Isotopes and compounds of plutonium are radioactive and accumulate in bone marrow. Contamination by plutonium oxide has resulted from nuclear disasters and radioactive incidents, including military nuclear accidents where nuclear weapons have burned.[89] Studies of the effects of these smaller releases, as well as of the widespread radiation poisoning sickness and death following the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, have provided considerable information regarding the dangers, symptoms and prognosis of radiation poisoning, which in the case of the Japanese Hibakusha/survivors was largely unrelated to direct plutonium exposure.

            During the decay of plutonium, three types of radiation are released—alpha, beta, and gamma. Alpha radiation can travel only a short distance and cannot travel through the outer, dead layer of human skin. Beta radiation can penetrate human skin, but cannot go all the way through the body. Gamma radiation can go all the way through the body… Alpha, beta, and gamma radiation are all forms of ionizing radiation. Either acute or longer-term exposure carries a danger of serious health outcomes including radiation sickness, genetic damage, cancer, and death. The danger increases with the amount of exposure…..

          • greenthinker2012

            My comment was a reply to a lady who said “it is the most toxic substance in the universe.” I would say she was exaggerating.
            When taken in by mouth, plutonium is less poisonous than several common substances including caffeine, acetaminophen, some vitamins, pseudoephedrine, and any number of plants and fungi. It is perhaps somewhat more poisonous than pure ethanol, but less so than tobacco; and many illegal drugs. From a purely chemical standpoint, it is about as poisonous as lead and other heavy metals.

          • Gforce27

            Greenthinker, none of your assertions here are cited. Since you are calling others out for this, I would hope you would cite your sources when you make claims about toxicity.

          • greenthinker2012

            I support the idea that we all back up our assertions. I will put in the extra effort required if you will.
            I think these comment sections could use more critical analysis of claims made here and less snarky personal attacks and sarcasm.

          • greenthinker2012

            I will stand by the internet meme “Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies”.
            Invoked, as a rule, it marks the end of a discussion when a Nazi analogy is made, with the writer who made the analogy being considered to have lost the argument.

          • Romi Elnagar

            The fact is, fossil fuels are bad for the environment, and nuclear power is worse for ALL LIVING SPECIES ON THE PLANET.

        • Romi Elnagar

          Nuclear power plants are built to produce radioactive elements needed for nuclear warheads. The blather about producing energy, especially that it is “clean” energy, is pure propaganda. The fact is, human lives, even the human lives of American citizens, have no value whatsoever to the psychopaths who run our government and spend more than half our national budget on useless weapons, while our people go hungry, homeless and need medical care.

          • greenthinker2012

            Commercial nuclear power plants do not produce useable bomb material.
            Look up what the isotopic composition of spent nuclear fuel is.
            Bomb grade Pu is made in specially designed military reactors not civilian power reactors.

          • simonhhh

            SOURCE: News: Tokyo tap water in crisis, Fukushima Diary by Mochizuki, October 8, 2011

            [...] Okutama area, where Tokyo tap water comes is as dangerous as “contaminated area” in Chernobyl.

            According to the data above, 100,000 ~ 300,000 Bq/kg was measured in Okutama area. [...]

            “It is not harmful in the short term, but we will make sure to keep monitoring” -Tokyo Health Service Bureau….MAYBE green thinker could get a JOB there he would fit right in ….lol

      • Marushka France

        better yet, look at the success of Germany and solar energy – a true clean energy.
        Nuclear is not ‘clean’ – it spews out man-made, hazardous radionuclides all the time…

        True clean energy solutions are wind, solar, water and geothermal — and plentiful –
        too bad we didn’t start building the right infrastructure 20-40 years ago, but it isn’t too late.
        http://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/january/jacobson-world-energy-012611.html

  • hidflect

    I already moved from Japan to the southern Hemisphere. I gave up 15 years of established roots to do it and now live in dullsville (Perth). I curse Tepco for fcking up my life but that’s nothing compared to what’s coming.

    • Steve from Ohio

      You won’t be able to hide anywhere on the planet. This radiation problem will be world wide.

      • greenthinker2012

        Steve, you are spreading fear without knowing what you are talking about.
        The world is naturally radioactive. The amount of radiation added by Fukushima is tiny compared to the natural amount already present.
        Spreading fear without knowledge is immoral.

        • stevefromohio

          I get all my info on Fukushima Daiichi from my friend who is a nuclear engineer and has been on top of his field since graduating with a PHD in nuclear physics from Yale.

          I guess your argument is with him.

          And your expertise in this field is?

          • K9Steve

            @stevefromohio, would you be willing to let us know the name of your nuclear engineer friend? He is so far out of the mainstream, I most curious who he is. (I’d like to read any articles on the subject he might have and I’m curious who would publish such articles.

          • stevefromohio

            Professor Charles Perrow who is now a professor at Yale. He has years of study in the nuclear field. I had talked to him through e-mail for quite a while and he has been on the Alex Jones show many times. I have talked to him on the air also interviewing him for a local talk show that I am part of.

            I also have a ham radio friend who works for a power company (no names please) that is an engineer at one of their nuclear plants. He verifies all that is being said by Professor Perrow.

            Google Professor Perrow Alex Jones and you will see his most recent article. Fukushima is by far the worst nuclear disaster in history and will affect the world for many years. There is talk that Tokyo may have to be abandoned as the cancer rates will be sky rocketing.

          • K9Steve

            Thanks, @stevefromohio:disqus , for sharing the name of the professor.

            I read this article by Professor Perrow:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-perrow/fukushima-forever_b_3941589.html

            which was referenced in the article you pointed me to. Parrow doesn’t actually explain any mechanisms by which the Fukushima Daiici meltdown will hurt people. Instead, he discusses nuclear bomb testing and various studies about previous nuclear power problems.

            Parrow makes quite a few statements that are quite inaccurate. For example, he writes that “The count of premature deaths [from the Chernobyl meltdown] has varied widely,” yet he fails to point out that his statement is true only if he includes studies that have been shown to be false. Peer reviewed, scientifically valid studies have put the estimate of deaths from Chernobyl at somewhere between zero and 4000 deaths. The bogus studies Perrow quotes makes it look like the range is zero to 2 million. He also discounts reports by WHO as being tainted, yet uses results from a Greenpeace study (which has been shown to be invalid) without question.

            I could go on and on with issues in Perrow’s article. I’ll just finish up by noting that the professor’s PhD is in sociology. It would be great if you could get Perrow and someone with in-depth knowledge of nuclear power and nuclear physics on the same radio show–someone like Rod Adams (http://atomicinsights.com/), Kirk Sorensen (formerly of NASA and now working on LFTR technology), or Robert Hargraves (author of “Thorium: energy cheaper than coal”). All three are physicists trying to educate the public on all things nuclear.

          • greenthinker2012

            Steve if your friend is telling you that you can’t hide anywhere on the planet he is misleading you. Ask him how many billions of tonnes of Uranium and how many billions of tonnes of pottasium 40 there are in the ocean?

          • greenthinker2012

            Steve if your friend is telling you that you can’t hide anywhere on the planet he is misleading you. Ask him how many billions of tonnes of Uranium and how many billions of tonnes of pottasium 40 there are in the ocean?

          • stevefromohio

            May I ask what is your expertise in the field of nuclear power?
            Have you any idea what amount of radioactive material there is in the world?
            Of course you do not and no one does. It can be guessed at but it is not going to be accurate.

            Many of the elite in the world have bought huge amounts of acreage in South America. The Bush family has bought a huge tract of land in Paraguay. Many other very wealthy families have also bought land in the southern hemisphere. There is a reason for that. If nuclear war or a nuclear disaster happens, the southern hemisphere is a place that may offer some protection for a while. But eventually that too will get contaminated.

            Fukushima was built on a river delta on soft land in a known earthquake zone. . It was a disaster that was almost designed to happen. Thank you GE and Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO)

            It is not only the Uranium or pottasium 40 that is the most danger. It is also the
            plutonium that is being released. The contamination is concentrated and not as dispersed as the background materials are. A lot of it is in aerosol form and is in the air. Here in Ohio, my geiger counter is registering background radiation that is 5 to sometimes 10 times the normal readings. Even the US government has stopped reporting background radiation readings to keep the people from panicking.

            I suggest you read up on the dangers that this disaster is putting us all in. It is poisoning fish and I would not eat any fish that come from the Pacific.

            International Journal of Health Services alleges that 14,000 people have already died in the United States due to Fukushima.

            By the way, I am for nuclear power. But I would rather have nuclear power generated by Thorium reactors that use up almost all the nuclear material instead of the uranium fusion reactors that create tons of radioactive waste.
            Plus thorium reactors are self regulating. If a problem crops up, a thorium reactor shuts down all by itself.

            But I am sure that you and your superior knowledge of everything nuclear trumps PHD’s and other highly regarded professionals. So yes, you must be right.

          • greenthinker2012

            The amount of radioactive material in the ocean (and elsewhere) can be measured. There is no need to guess. That is the beauty of science.

            I bet your geiger counter readings fall within the natural variation for your area. What are the readings? Do they correlate to any natural phenomenon?
            For example they will be higher after a rainfall due to the daughter products of natural Radon being washed out of the air.
            They will be higher after farmers fertilize their fields and after they disturb the soil by ploughing.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Steve,

            You are open-minded, so I have to tell you:

            Thorium reactors will be no better.

            http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/12/dr-calidocott-md-radioactive-thorium.html

            http://ieer.org/resource/audiovideo/arjun-makhijani-talks-to-helen-caldicott-on-the-downsides-of-thorium-reactors/

            http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/health/healthcare/567-lynas-waste-thorium-for-nuclear-energy-a-real-health-threat

            I really think that we should forget about getting energy from ANYTHING radioactive. The Australian aborigines and the Navajos had the right idea: uranium (and anything else radioactive) is bad and should be left in the ground. Mankind managed for hundreds of thousands of years getting energy from water and wind. We’ve managed in a few generations to mess up the Earth getting energy from oil, and it will take even less time to make the planet radioactive.

            Just my opinion…

            Best,
            Romi

          • simonhhh

            WELL SAID….ROMI

          • Romi Elnagar

            Thanks, Simon.

            I have a small Yahoo! group at

            http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AmericanConscience/info?yguid=211002319

            You are always welcome there.
            Best,
            Romi

          • greenthinker2012

            Simon if you ask nice Romi will give you a back rub. ;~)
            You two are a perfect match.

          • Romi Elnagar

            Steve,

            You are open-minded, so I have to tell you:

            Thorium reactors will be no better.

            http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/12/dr-calidocott-md-radioactive-thorium.html

            http://ieer.org/resource/audiovideo/arjun-makhijani-talks-to-helen-caldicott-on-the-downsides-of-thorium-reactors/

            http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/health/healthcare/567-lynas-waste-thorium-for-nuclear-energy-a-real-health-threat

            I really think that we should forget about getting energy from ANYTHING radioactive. The Australian aborigines and the Navajos had the right idea: uranium (and anything else radioactive) is bad and should be left in the ground. Mankind managed for hundreds of thousands of years getting energy from water and wind. We’ve managed in a few generations to mess up the Earth getting energy from oil, and it will take even less time to make the planet radioactive.

            Just my opinion…

            Best,
            Romi

          • stevefromohio

            May I ask what is your expertise in the field of nuclear power?
            Have you any idea what amount of radioactive material there is in the world?
            Of course you do not and no one does. It can be guessed at but it is not going to be accurate.

            Many of the elite in the world have bought huge amounts of acreage in South America. The Bush family has bought a huge tract of land in Paraguay. Many other very wealthy families have also bought land in the southern hemisphere. There is a reason for that. If nuclear war or a nuclear disaster happens, the southern hemisphere is a place that may offer some protection for a while. But eventually that too will get contaminated.

            Fukushima was built on a river delta on soft land in a known earthquake zone. . It was a disaster that was almost designed to happen. Thank you GE and Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO)

            It is not only the Uranium or pottasium 40 that is the most danger. It is also the
            plutonium that is being released. The contamination is concentrated and not as dispersed as the background materials are. A lot of it is in aerosol form and is in the air. Here in Ohio, my geiger counter is registering background radiation that is 5 to sometimes 10 times the normal readings. Even the US government has stopped reporting background radiation readings to keep the people from panicking.

            I suggest you read up on the dangers that this disaster is putting us all in. It is poisoning fish and I would not eat any fish that come from the Pacific.

            International Journal of Health Services alleges that 14,000 people have already died in the United States due to Fukushima.

            By the way, I am for nuclear power. But I would rather have nuclear power generated by Thorium reactors that use up almost all the nuclear material instead of the uranium fusion reactors that create tons of radioactive waste.
            Plus thorium reactors are self regulating. If a problem crops up, a thorium reactor shuts down all by itself.

            But I am sure that you and your superior knowledge of everything nuclear trumps PHD’s and other highly regarded professionals. So yes, you must be right.

          • Gforce27

            Greenthinker, if you are comparing weights/amounts of radioactivity to one another–and not how much radiation is actually emitted by each radionuclide, than it is YOU who are misinformed. Potassium 40 is very weakly radioactive compared to Cesium 137 or Strontium 90. They are not equal AT all to one another in terms of destructiveness.

          • greenthinker2012

            Sure, but we are comparing a few KGs from Fukushima vs 100′s of BILLIONS of TONNES of Potassium 40 and Uranium 235 and 238 along with other isotopes naturally in the oceans.
            If we tally up the total number of atoms released at Fukushima and divide it by the number of atoms in the ocean the odds that you will come in contact with a single atom from Fukushima is very very small.

        • stevefromohio

          I get all my info on Fukushima Daiichi from my friend who is a nuclear engineer and has been on top of his field since graduating with a PHD in nuclear physics from Yale.

          I guess your argument is with him.

          And your expertise in this field is?

    • greenthinker2012

      It is a shame that you succumbed to the misinformation and fear being spread.
      Please consider talking to some nuclear engineers at your local university.
      Learn about what radiation is and how it is measured.
      Learn about how the world is naturally radioactive.
      If you can get familiar with the numbers and concepts, you will no longer need to be afraid.
      If you do not want to rely on the words of others, buy a radiation detector with the advice of your local university and make the measurements yourself.
      I hope in time you will be less afraid and will be able to move back and reestablish the connections you severed.

    • greenthinker2012

      It is a shame that you succumbed to the misinformation and fear being spread.
      Please consider talking to some nuclear engineers at your local university.
      Learn about what radiation is and how it is measured.
      Learn about how the world is naturally radioactive.
      If you can get familiar with the numbers and concepts, you will no longer need to be afraid.
      If you do not want to rely on the words of others, buy a radiation detector with the advice of your local university and make the measurements yourself.
      I hope in time you will be less afraid and will be able to move back and reestablish the connections you severed.

      • Gforce27

        I’ve been reading and reading your comments greenthinker. The problem I have here with your comments, is it makes it sound like man-made radionuclides are somehow comparable to weak, naturally occurring radiation like potassium 40, which we have evolved with. The line of reasoning you use that we have nothing to fear from it makes it sound like I should just sprinkle some Cesium 137 on my kid’s breakfast cereal.

  • greenthinker2012

    The fact that Gunderson and Caldecott are sources of “information” for this article should be raising red flags about its credibility.
    The spent fuel has been cooling for over two years and poses no danger despite Gunderson’s hyperventilating prognostications.

    • Marushka France

      tearing down those with considerable, proven knowledge and experience (Arne Gundersen, nuclear engineer with 40 years experience, and Dr. Helen Caldicott, a decades-long career as a physician) – both became anti-nuclear activists precisely because they researched and understand more than the average bloke, that nuclear is deadly. From mining, to ‘decommissioning’, it is hazardous to all living beings and destroys non-living things as well.

      If nuclear waste is no danger after two years, why is it so heavily regulated by the government and why has a depository for waste been a decades-long, multi-billion $ pursuit? one that still has no solution?

      • greenthinker2012

        When someone who proclaims to be an expert says something that defies the laws of physics, it raises a red flag for me. When they do it again and again, I no longer view them as an expert. How many errors do you allow before someone is no longer credible? If you give me a number then I will post a reply showing that number of provable errors by both Gunderson and Caldicott.

  • MHoskinson

    A new disaster, brought to you by the same folks who said we’d be under water now.

  • MadSat

    You all have some strange beliefs. I guess Gunderson knows his audience well. He certainly played to it. Better watch out for eating that evil potassium that your brain requires, it’s more radioactive than anything you’ll get from Fukushima unless you live within 20 miles or so.

    • Gforce27

      I presume you have no problem eating the same amount of Cesium 137–the equivalent “amount” to the potassium 40 in a banana? We’ll all be waiting with baited breath for the results of your experiment.

      • greenthinker2012

        The same radiological amount of any isotope would be equally dangerous.
        Banana…not very dangerous. The same amount of Cs 137 or Pu 139 or U 235 would radiologically be the same…not very dangerous. I would worry about the chemical dangers due to heavy metal poisoning, toxicity etc.

        • Gforce27

          Wait–this is NOT how I understand it at ALL, and I find your comment very misleading and suspect. from what I understand, your assertion is completely misleading. Potassium 40 is very weakly radioactive, and Cesium 137 is HIGHLY radioactive, by many factors. In my understanding of what I’ve watched and read, if you had a quarter sized amount of each, the Potassium 40 would be not much to worry about, but the same amount of Cesium 137 would render an area the size of Manhattan un-liveable. So, it is not the physical “amounts”= may be the same, the amount of radiation emitted from the various radio-nuclides, is not: the CURIES PER GRAM ARE NOT!

          Copied from a slide during a video
          presentation by Stephen Star:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDgnBqBJZNc

          Naturally occurring radionuclides in
          food:
          Potassium-40=0.0000071 Curies per
          gram.= seventy-one ten millionths Curies per gram. VERSUS
          Cesium-137=88 curies per gram
          Strontium 90=140 curies per gram

          2 GRAMS OF CESIUM-137 HAS MORE RADIOACTIVITY THAN 20 TONS OF POTASSIUM 40.

          http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-science-alert-fukushima-radiation-cant-be-compared-to-bananas-or-x-rays/5329369

          So, sir–according to the science, YOU ARE WRONG= THE SAME “WEIGHT” AMOUNT OF THE VARIOUS RADIO-NUCLIDES ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING EQUAL.

          • greenthinker2012

            Hi GForce…I appreciate your attention to detail and your referencing numbers.
            I want to start by clarifying that I never said that the various radionuclides were the same on a per weight basis.
            It is always a challenge finding the right balance between explaining things too simply and thus being less precise or losing people because the explanation is too complex.
            I wanted to give a sense of proportion to people using numbers and measurements that were most familiar to them, but O.K. let’s make the comparison using specific activity as you are doing.

            Let’s round off the numbers as you have done and accept that
            2 grams of Cs-137 are approximately equal to 20 tonnes of K-40.
            (1 gram = 10 tonnes)

            Let’s get some numbers for the amount of Cs-137 released and assume the estimate in The Journal of Nuclear Science and Technology Volume 50, Issue 3, 2013 is roughly correct for the amount of Cs-137 released at Fukushima.
            They estimate 3980 grams…let’s round that up to 4000 grams.
            That would be equivalent to
            4000g x 10 tonnes equivalent K-40 = 40 000 tonnes equivalent.

            Compare 40 000 tonnes equivalent activity
            to the 60 000 000 000 tonnes of K-40 in the ocean.

            That is still a difference of over a million times.
            This number does not include the other naturally occurring isotopes in the ocean such as Uranium, Tritium, Carbon-14, or Rubidium-87

            I will stick with my original assertion that the amount of radionuclides added to the ocean due to Fukushima is dwarfed by the amount of natural radionuclides.

    • Gforce27

      I presume you have no problem eating the same amount of Cesium 137–the equivalent “amount” to the potassium 40 in a banana? We’ll all be waiting with baited breath for the results of your experiment.

  • K9Steve

    The fear mongering in this article is almost criminal. While MIT just released a study that some 200,000 people a year die prematurely in the U.S from burning fossil fuels (where is your scary scary article on that!), articles like this scare the bejesus out people over an accident in which no one has died and, according to the WHO, which may never result in anyone dying (or, worst case, could result in 4000 early cancer deaths). Get your facts straight and stop quoting crazy, conspiracy-theory nuts like Helen Caldicott.

    Natural radiation in the oceans is measured at over 15,000,000 Peta-becquerels; Fukushima has contributed another 30 Peta-becquerels to the oceans–about 1 five-hundred-thousandth of natural levels. NOT SCARY.

    Does the Fukushima meltdown continue to be a problem? Yes. But put this in perspective. People in the U.S. have nothing to worry about. (If you want to give them something to worry about, why not do a story on the 500,000 toxic dumping wells in the U.S. or the radiation spewed from coal burning, etc.) Even people living in Fukushima do not have anything to worry about except media that thoughtlessly feed them scare story after scare story.

    • greenthinker2012

      @k9steve:disqus…I agree that the level of fear mongering is criminal. No one has died or will ever be harmed by the radiation from Fukushima, while people HAVE been killed by the panicked over-reaction to the crisis that resulted in the evacuation of critically ill people from hospitals, old age facilities etc.
      The lack of numbers in the article coupled with emotionally charged adjectives should trigger peoples’ bullsh*t detectors.

      Here are some actual numbers to help people put things in perspective.
      The amount of radioactive material that has leaked into the ocean from Fukushima in total is measured in KILOGRAMS.
      Adding up the amount of only two naturally occurring isotopes in the ocean we see:
      The amount of naturally occurring Uranium in the ocean is 5 BILLION TONNES.
      The amount of naturally occurring Potassium 40 in the ocean is 75 BILLION TONNES.

      The addition of a few extra Kilograms of material to the ocean will definitely NOT cause any sort of disaster.

    • Marushka France

      the misinformation in your response is shameful and makes me wonder — are you two K9Steve, greenthinker2012 paid to dissuade people from reality?

      “natural’ radiation is not comparable to Man-Made radioactive isotopes, not in the least. Man-made radioisotopes, the entire nuclear industry (and weapons) is nothing short of a death industry. It produces what has been repeatedly proved to be, DNA destroying, cellular degradation for all species, and prematurely ages not only living creatures but also concrete, steel, plastics… everything. The profound increase in genetic disorders, NEW disorders and genetic disruption, and the breakdown of cells and entire physiological systems increase, the more the nuclear industry pollutes the environment.

      and we don’t need nuclear, coal or fracking… we need better planning and truly ‘clean’ energy.

      http://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/january/jacobson-world-energy-012611.html

      If you don’t care about the truth, if you don’t care to really examine the issues, can you at least consider the kind of world you expect to leave the next generation? the children in your own family?

      We all need the truth from our governments and the global end of nuclear — it’s killing us all.

      • K9Steve

        This is a test. I’ve been unable to get a reply to show up here. If this shows up, I’ll edit it and insert an actual reply.

      • K9Steve

        Please see my reply below, which I can’t get to show up here.

      • K9Steve

        Please see my reply below, which I can’t get to show up here.

  • Marushka France

    It’s really a shame that so much energy is going into hiding the truth from the American public…
    this blog is certainly not the place for factual information. The bias and bent for dissuading people from the truth is thick.

    NRC documents released under the freedom of information act…

    Three “Meltdowns” one actually exited the reactor
    15 March 2011 NRC memo “U2 ex-vessel; U4 sfp zirc fire, catastrophe”
    Unit #2 at Fukushima Daiichi has left the reactor…
    Unit #4′s spent fool pool apparantly a zirconium fire…

    Attacking individuals rather than substantive dialogue is no argument. Why so afraid of the truth?

    “A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ”

    John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. President, 1917-1963

  • sandyvc

    Can this blogger write or does he just cut and paste what many many many others have said? I am in Alberta, home of the worst pollutant on the planet. The oil industry has never ever been transparent. When I think of all the burst pipelines, never mind those we do not know about, the fracking, the tailings ponds, the cancer downstream from the TAR PITs among the natives, the blow outs in water, that we know of, and fracking I have no doubt which is worse. Oil is the killer industry. It always was. We don’t care because we know if it goes our entire culture and country will die. So we insult those at Fukushima while hiding our own sickness.

    • greenthinker2012

      Agreed. We are killing the planet with fossil fuels.
      Fossil fuels kill millions of people every year as part of their regular practises and yet we say nothing.
      In contrast, not a single person has been killed from Fukushima radiation and the UNSCEAR and WHO organizations say that no one will be harmed in the future.
      Yet the media screams that this is the biggest catastrophe on the planet.

  • K9Steve

    [ This is a reply to Marushka France (also greenthinker2012) who replied to me. Unfortunately, I have been unable to get my reply to show up using the Reply button. ]

    I suspect I’m much like you, Marushka France. I am concerned about global warming, ocean acidification, human health and well being, and the future of the planet. That’s why I find articles like “The REAL Fukushima Meltdown” quite disturbing. It substitutes fear mongering for in-depth reporting. We need to be focusing on solutions and not on disinformation.

    I’m not sure where you got the notion that background radiation not produced by human beings is somehow better than radiation resulting from human activity. Ionizing radiation tears up DNA, regardless of whether or not human beings are involved. Proteins in beef are also quite hard on DNA (just as effectively as radiation, but much less random in what parts of human bodies are affected), but I have yet to see scary stories about deadly beef (though it most certainly can be deadly–particularly for western style consumption).

    Life started at background radiation levels four times higher than they are today. If ionizing radiation is as deadly as you claim, how did life ever get so far? The answer is, of course, that life is very good at dealing with ionizing radiation–to a point. I believe that over a year’s period every strand of DNA in every human body is damaged by radiation (and other things like proteins) and repaired. Life is very good at this (except when proteins are concentrated in the gut via ingesting lots of beef or when one is exposed to high doses of radiation from natural or artificial sources).

    The plethora of problems you blame on radiation is not backed by science, and to claim such dissuades people from seeking the truth. There are many ways human beings are changing the earth and how we live that are likely candidates for the plethora of problems you mention, and human beings need to be looking for the causes with open minds.

    As for Jacobson (and the article you referenced), he seems to me unable (unwilling) to grasp the vast energy chasm we have come up against. I’ve seen numbers in the past discussed such as 5 million wind turbines and some vast amount of solar to meet energy demand (not counting the increases in demand that result from developing countries and population growth). It takes 15 tons of concrete to make a base for a wind turbine (plus all that steel, Neodymium–some ugly environmental issues right there, and other materials for each turbine). That’s some 75 million tons of concrete for wind turbines that will last 20 or 30 years, at which point they have to be built all over again. And then there is all the infrastructure needed–all the access roads and maintenance needed for 5 million turbines. And on top of that there are the vast transmission lines which will gobble up 10% of energy production and leave us vulnerable to utter catastrophe (many decades to recover) when we next experience a super solar flare. And on top of all that, no one has solved the intermittency problems with wind and solar (which are now causing many headaches in Germany). I have trouble taking Jacobson seriously.

    If you care deeply about humanity’s big energy problems and the looming disasters that need imminent action, I urge you to dig deeply into nuclear power. Not LWRs of old, but much safer and saner technologies (MSRs, LFTRs, SMRs, etc.) that weren’t designed with the military’s need for plutonium in mind. (“Thorium: energy cheaper than coal” and “The Answer” are two good texts. “Sustainable Energy — without the hot air” (http://www.withouthotair.com/) is a good look at what it would actually take to meet energy needs with solar and wind.)

  • greenthinker2012

    Here is an interesting article with some recent revelations on Fukushima obtained through federal freedom of information filings.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/09/fukushima_disaster_new_information_about_worst_case_scenarios.html

  • CaptD

    Great article for all those that think Fukushima is N☢ BIG DEAL:
    ‘Fukushima might make 2020 Tokyo Olympics impossible’ Dr Robert Jacobs, Hiroshima.

    http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/fukushima-might-make-2020-tokyo-olympics-impossible-dr-robert-jacobs-hiroshima/

    snip

    There is no reason to believe that radiation leaks at Fukushima will be contained by 2020, so the Tokyo Olympics can become impossible, nuclear technology historian Robert Jacobs told RT.

    • fireofenergy

      There is simply not enough radiation to do that… just fear. Therefore, they should entomb it, to get rid of the fear, because the radiation actually disperses, into the natural “radiation landscape” (sunlight, radon, bananas, etc).
      We all should thus promote the molten salt reactor which is meltdown proof and spits out just 1/100th the wastes which become radioactive free in 300 years (not 300 thousand).
      Search LFTR.

      • simonhhh

        “…they should entomb it, to get rid of the fear, because the radiation actually disperses, into the natural “radiation landscape” (sunlight, radon, bananas, etc)….”

        Wrong….
        vast water table under Fukushima Prefecture…bananas has 1 billionth less radiation than Ce138 etc …1 ounce will eventually kill 100k people…1 mox rod 8% plutonium will eventually kill 10million…Chernobyl eventually killed 1.2 million people…

        • fireofenergy

          It may not be so bad, anymore (because the Ce138, etc has a half life of less than 60 days?) however, you raise valid points that must be dealt with if we are to find another way to power civilization, 24/7 (without excess CO2 from fossil fuels completely DESTROYING the biosphere in an otherwise business as usual approach). I agree, that radiation MUST be isolated from the biosphere.
          NONE of that would have happened had they been of the inherently safe melt down proof molten salt reactor. Alvin Weinberg, the inventor of both the light water reactor and the molten salt reactor got fired from his research position at ORNL because he advocated the peaceful use of the MSR in place of the inherently more dangerous LWR. Thus, instead of whining about how bad nuclear IS (because nobody listened to Weinberg)… we need to be raising cain about how we MUST make it safer by demanding development of the MSR (or LFTR).

    • simonhhh

      CAPT D….well said ….Jap Olympics 2020…is political theater and a joke!!!!

  • reasonable light

    If this is true, we will all die!! This to me is know different then the far right saying everything is Ok! The far left is saying there’s No help!! There’s a middle path, where hate, and fear doesn’t scare us. You want donations, and use fear factor to get $. I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. You are using fear factor for $ the same way the Right use fear factor for $, shame on both sides.

  • fireofenergy

    The BIGGEST problem with the fuel rod is that it is only 1/100 as efficient than molten fuels… Search LFTR and the MSR.

    • CaptD

      SURE MSR is a winner, but only of the Golden Fleece Award:

      http://www.taxpayer.net/images

      • fireofenergy

        Means nothing to me because it obviously does not even remotely touch on the basics of science, just the stupid politics of fossil fueled depletion. Therefore, what you post should get the “most scientifically ILLITERATE award”. BTY, the link itself says “forbidden” when I try to open it in a new window… (how stupid is that! EDIT, also doesn’t open in this window, either)

  • scottyji

    SFP #4 burned. Here’s some documentation. Therefore, there may not be much to salvage from the pool, which is now literally “covered up” and out of sight. The salvage could well be a charade on TEPCO’s part.

    “From the NRC FOIA documents: email from March 15th, 2011 “U4 zirc fire, catastrophe” see =

    http://hatrickpenry.wordpress.com/

    Read all the documentation there.

    • greenthinker2012

      There are pictures of the fuel pool available that show no damage. Tepco gave a tour of the pool to world scientists and journalists recently to show how their preparations for moving the fuel have been completed.

      Lake Barrett, formerly with the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, says he found preparations for the fuel removal to be thorough and has “confidence” the effort will succeed safely.
      Barrett said, “While removal of the fuel is usually a routine procedure in operating a power plant, the damage to the reactor building has made the job more complex. TEPCO and its partners have made extensive preparations and are employing specialized technology designed to meet the particular needs of extracting the fuel from the damaged building and safely moving it to more secure storage. I am genuinely impressed by the thoroughness of the effort and TEPCO’s contingency planning. Beginning this work shifts the focus from site stabilization to real progress. When the work is done, and the fuel is brought to an undamaged storage facility, the site will be safer for workers, for the community, for Japan, and for the world.”
      His favourable remarks came the day after the Nuclear Regulation Authority gave TEPCO approval for the removal and transfer of the fuel. http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2013/1232158_5130.html

  • CaptD

    The Japanese Gov’t. and it’s PRESS is now being controlled by their Utility Gangs!

    If this were not the case then Japan would have already allowed independent access to Fukushima by people and groups to verify what is happening there, so no independent access equals no truth about Fukushima!

    More:

    Fukushima might make 2020 Tokyo Olympics impossible

    Great article for all those that think Fukushima is NO BIG DEAL:

    Fukushima might make 2020 Tokyo Olympics impossible Dr Robert Jacobs, Hiroshima.

    http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/fukushima-might-make-2020-tokyo-olympics-impossible-dr-robert-jacobs-hiroshima/

    snip

    There is no reason to believe that radiation leaks at Fukushima will be contained by 2020, so the Tokyo Olympics can become impossible, nuclear technology historian Robert Jacobs told RT.

    • fireofenergy

      Ya, what’s new? Americans are being controlled by the “evil” fossil fuel “gangs” (and their bought out press).
      On second thought, only WE can prevent mindless allegiance to media manipulations spewing forth frivolously from ALL sides of the spectrum… And it helps to want to learn the physics of our necessary energy supplies.

  • fireofenergy

    The best way to prevent radiation leaks is to not use reactors that mix water with solid fuel… for the obvious physics reasons. The best way to insure that the developing world and us can continue to have electricity is to PROMOTE the advanced machine automation of wind, solar and batteries AND the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor which is another molten salt concept which, bty, can be LOAD FOLLOWING (meaning less storage necessary for the renewables once they reach the so called max grid penetration”)…

    http://www.oecd-nea.org/nea-news/2011/29-2/nea-news-29-2-load-following-e.pdf

  • Rosemary Lowe

    The core problem with these blogs is that one or two people get on with other agendas who try to detract from the discussion at hand. What is troubling is that we see statements that “no one has died from radiation” and other lies. I am involved with those who have been uranium mine workers, or have worked as engineers, scientists, & others at such places as Los Alamos, Rocky Flats, Livermore Lab, Sandia, you name it.: many of these people are sick with terminal cancers. I will not further reply to anyone on this blog spewing lies that somehow nuclear energy is ok and not dangerous. Such people get on these blogs to get us off topic. They either are totally delusional, or they have worked for, or are working for the Nuclear Machine. Just think, every minute of every day, the evil of radiation is pouring from Fukushima into the oceans, altering the life processes, causing sickness and death.And, the Fuykushima plant is just one of hundreds on the planet. Millions of non-human species are suffering and will sink to the bottom of the oceans, their bodies never to be seen. Any bloggers who discount such catastrophes are a part & parcel of this nuclear evil.

    • greenthinker2012

      Rosemary, you have an agenda as well.

      You say that statements claiming that no one has died from radiation are lies.

      Both the UNSCEAR and the WHO disagree with you. These organizations are comprised of scientists from each country in the world who are chosen based on their expertise in their fields of study.

      They have each published reports that conclude there will be no detectable increase in cancers as a result of the radiological release.

      UNSCEAR Link:
      http://www.unscear.org/unscear

      quote:
      “there have been no health effects attributed to radiation exposure observed among workers, the people with the highest radiation exposures. To date, no health effects attributable to radiation exposure have been observed among children or any other member of the population;”

      WHO Link:
      http://apps.who.int/iris/bitst

      quote:
      “The present results suggest that the increases in the incidence of human disease attributable to the additional radiation exposure from the Fukushima Daiichi NPP accident are likely to remain below detectable levels.”

      I am choosing to believe them over an internet commenter who provides no evidence.

      If you do have some evidence please share it.

  • Anonie

    Escape the northern hemisphere and come to Chile. As one of the most modern and developed countries in South America with a growing expat community, Chile is the perfect escape for foreigners seeking refuge from this natural disaster and possible economic and political ones.

 

 

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