Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11

What Else Did He Lie About?

The New York Times’ Maureen Dowd writes today:

In a documentary soon to appear on Showtime, “The World According to Dick Cheney,” [Cheney said] “I got on the telephone with the president, who was in Florida, and told him not to be at one location where we could both be taken out.” Mr. Cheney kept W. flying aimlessly in the air on 9/11 while he and Lynn left on a helicopter for a secure undisclosed location, leaving Washington in a bleak, scared silence, with no one reassuring the nation in those first terrifying hours.

“I gave the instructions that we’d authorize our pilots to take it out,” he says, referring to the jet headed to Washington that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. He adds: “After I’d given the order, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.”

***

When they testified together before the 9/11 Commission, W. and Mr. Cheney kept up a pretense that in a previous call, the president had authorized the vice president to give a shoot-down order if needed. But the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.”

In other words, Cheney pretended that Bush had authorized a shoot-down order, but Cheney now admits that he never did. In fact, Cheney acted as if he was the president on 9/11. *

Cheney lied about numerous other facts related to 9/11 as well. For example, Cheney:

* Indeed, Cheney initiated Continuity of Government plans on 9/11 which essentially nullified America’s constitutional form of government.

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  • Clothcap

    Has anyone asked to see Cheney-Bush’s bank account statements pre and post 9/11/2001?
    Rhetorical…

    • oak

      i believe the beloved patriot act makes it illegal to look into the personal finances of high ranking government employees. ya know cuz then the terrorists win.

      • http://twitter.com/MayBRayne Juicy Leg

        They hate you for your freedoms

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/AJ4WSS44AJOJW52LNDSFLFQ3MQ GEORGE

          LOL.

        • wunsacon

          “They hate us for our drones.”

        • wunsacon

          “They hate us for our drones.”

        • wunsacon

          “They hate us for our drones.”

        • Reverend Draco

          Yes, our government hates us for our freedoms – which is why they work so hard to steal them away.

      • jo-d

        What?????

        • jo-d

          “Oh” sorry.;-)

      • Albury Smith

        Where did you ever get a stupid idea like that?

    • http://www.facebook.com/daniel.carson.1654 Daniel Carson

      as well as the wall St. boys at that time and other insiders in trade going on?

    • Jack

      Cheney swore he owned no stock options in HAL while giving no bid contracts to Halliburton/KBR
      It was found out later tht in fact he did own stock options
      After getting caught, He then stated he would give the money to charity doubt tht happened

  • amuncat

    I bet that this is just the tip of the iceberg! He thought he was president! Bush was merely their instrument to gain control and implement their agenda…military industrial complex and corporate take over of America.

    • 5

      jewish takeover

      • Bobby Hansen

        Jewish takeover? republicans LOVE Israel.

        lolz.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eileen-Kuch/1255873681 Eileen Kuch

          Still a Jewish takeover. Bibi Nutty&Yahoo came right out and said that the 9/11 attacks were “good for Israel”. In other words, Israel had a big hand in the event.

          • tammy

            Ahhhhh…Eileen….your stupidnes is showing. Really…you’re an idiot.

          • Dave Eboch

            You are an idiot and an apparent Zionist pig! Israel did 911

          • Albury Smith

            Israel and da Joos had no involvement whatsoever in the al Qaeda SUICIDE attacks of 9/11.

          • Strider73

            “The role of the president of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel.” — Ann Lewis, adviser to Hillary Clinton campaign, March 17, 2008

            Google “audacity of chutzpah” for the article.

          • mikeyz99

            I’m assuming this was an innocent mistake.

            You seem to have missed a rather key sentance in youe edition of her quote. The full quote is; “The role of the president of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel. It is not up to us to pick and choose from among the political parties.”

            Your omission of the last sentence rather changes the true meaning of her statement wouldn’t you agree?

          • Dave Eboch

            Not by much. Israel has dictated US foreign policy fo too long and they have bought and paid off the US congress. Even good old working for the people Senators like Sherrod Brown who my own parents thought was a great guy is actually also bought by the AIPAC lobby. Terrible Terrible Terrible

          • http://www.facebook.com/peterr.george.7 Yeah Pete

            Israel had nothing to do with it. In fact, nobody in the middle east, other than a handful of powerful people. The U.S. government orchestrated a disastrous event in order to be able to take away our rights and establish a police state all under the guidelines of “security.” Now our cell phones are constantly (literally, constantly) tracked by the feds, we have domestic drones surveilling and even killing innocent people, and i haven’t even scratched the surface. It’s a sickeningly hard truth to accept, but the more people that know what is ACTUALLY going on with the world, the better. If you’ve not seen the “Zeitgeist” documentaries, I recommend them to you. They are one among the most informative works out there. I am not telling you about this to start a debate or to criticize you, but rather to simply inform you of how it really happened. The documentaries are on netflix if it strikes your interest. And, of course, if you have netflix.

          • Dave Eboch

            Israel did 911 and they have everything to do with what goes on in our government. Get informed!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alvin-Kuhn/100003668204998 Alvin Kuhn

          “republicans” for a brief second there, I thought it said “reptiles.”

        • Stewland

          In fact many Jews will be found to be involved. Building 7 was insured for Billions. Owned by a Jewish concern. Neocons also .

          • Albury Smith

            That’s funny; the owner only collected $861 million in insurance for Building 7, and that didn’t cover all of the lost cash flow for years, his rebuilding costs, paying his creditors, etc. Do you know of any other real estate investors who deliberately destroy their own buildings with help from neocons so they can lose millions of dollars, and don’t even file claims for all of the insurance?

          • Stewland

            The CIA was housed in that building. All evidence concerning involvement to be destroyed. The owner of building seven was involved. Perhaps had or has his fingers in many pies.

          • Albury Smith

            The CIA was paying rent for that partial floor, and government agencies are usually very long-term tenants who pay reliably. Once again, do you know of any other real estate investors who deliberately destroy their own buildings with help from neocons so they can lose millions of dollars, and don’t even file claims for all of the insurance? What involvement did the CIA have in al Qaeda suicide attacks on the US, and why?

      • Stewland

        Dancing Jews

        • Albury Smith

          They were extensively interrogated and then deported. How, pray tell, did 5 Israeli Joos on the ground aid 10 al Qaeda suicide hijackers on AA 11 & UA 175? It was really stupid of them to incriminate themselves, now wasn’t it?
          Israel faces attacks and threats from Islamic suicide “martyrs” frequently, so some of them would obviously want other nations to see what it’s like too.
          Allah akbar, Dude.

          • Stewland

            I suspect that you are a Zionist. Zionists adopted many of the Nazi methods in order to genocide the Palestinian peoples. Sadly they became what they judged.

          • Albury Smith

            I suspect that I’m not the topic here. Scroll up to see what is.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QVAGMGVXSSQUCYIJKUALPVK2XM Sandra

      After all, Cheney appointed HIMSELF as the vice presidential nominee in 2000 in the first place, after pretending to search for a candidate. At the time, this should have sent off more alarms than just among us ordinary citizens.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alvin-Kuhn/100003668204998 Alvin Kuhn

        Cheney, before becoming VP of the US, was a high official in Haliburton. After 9/11, he and Bush decided on a no-bid contract for Haliburton for invading Iraq. It wasn’t any more plain that if they had erected a large billboard on the WH lawn saying: “I, Cheney, left Haliburton to become VP of the US in order to arrange for 9/11 so that Haliburton could win without bidding for a multi-$billion contract to ass around in Iraq during US military involvement there.

  • Grekko

    Really, Darth Cheney? Tell the truth? Hah!

  • goingnowherefast

    Criminality has been endemic in the US since its founding. It has reached the stage of total rot which is why the authoritarian police state tactics have become necessary. There’s so much to keep under wraps, authority is scrambling to keep up. At some point it will all collapse of its own weight. Whether we survive that collapse remains to be seen.

  • Clarity

    Oops! Except the Pentagon didn’t get hit by an airplane.

    And considering who al CIAda is, they more than “knew about it”.

    There’s a lot more lying going on than what’s listed here.

  • Undecider

    Don’t expect Obama to lend any transparency to this. They’ll will treat it like their arms build up against the American public.

    • tammy

      Wow…better hurry up dude…you’re gonna be late for that militia meeting….and don’t forget to take that white sheet and hood with you.,,the KKK meeting is right aferwards. Geeez…what an idiot.

      • http://resurgenceseries.com/ Sacha Valero

        Obama’s DOJ granted immunity to Bush, Cheney, et al for their war crimes. Obama’s DHS has purchased 2700 armored personnel carriers for civilian law enforcement. Obama’s DHS has purchased over 1 billion rounds of 9mm and .40. Even the IRS under Obama has purchased a boat load of shotguns. Obama’s Department of Education sent a SWAT team to break down the door and terrorize a family because a woman who used to live at that address failed to pay her student loans. Any thinking person can see that this administrations idea of transparency is to hide behind the black cloak of “National Security.”

        I suppose I’m a racist too for pointing all this out huh tammy?

        And you have the temerity to call someone else an idiot.

        • gadfly

          first name: tammany
          last name: hall

      • Undecider

        The KKK is a foundation funded FBI run organization. They have nothing to do with any militia that stands up for the Constitution. 9-11 was indeed an attack on our nation by terrorists. The “Muslims” you saw on television were just the patsies and scape goats. Cheney was part of the program and will never divulge.

  • stonehillady

    How many of us KNEW this was a false Flag right from the get go ! All that are commercial pilots, balisstic engineers, architects & Chemists new damn well these buildings were all rigged to fall down for 2 things, to take away our rights with bogus so called Al-Qaeda & to get our butts over to the Persian Area to rape it & help preserve the backed by nothing dollar to rein supreme…& that is what we are STILL doing.
    In my personal opinion he is the getting the truth out before they take down Obama with his bogus credentials because he is ruining everything & the Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rumsfield/McCain/Graham Fascists are scared the Chinese & Russians have a tremendous advantage in taken us out & installing a gold back yuan….which they are thru the Brettonwoods in a new world currency.

  • http://www.facebook.com/thermatedetonator Thermal Detonator

    I bet Cheney was glad the Mossad, CIA & FBI were taking care of most of the dirty work in NYC with WTC 1,2 & 7(hell, maybe even 6 too). Do we get to finally have the Pilot that shot it down, come out and confess too?

  • stonehillady

    This is why the GOP did NOT contest the Bogus Identification that Obama & Pelosi presented to get to go & sit in the White House because that is how Washington works, Bribes & Deception!
    Now with Bin-Laden’s son-in-law going to a normal trial in NYC he will spell the beans so Cheney or someone better come clean PLUS if they do, they can finally go after Obama because that is what Obama holds against the GOP, they knew & assisted in 9/11, which in most circles is a Joint venture with the CIA, Mossad & Saudi Arabia. Obama has gone way farther then even the neo-cons preceived he would & must be taken out for every White Christian & Jew in this land is toast if Obama gets too much control & declare Martial Law to take into a hell hole.
    His killer drones are the Bush’s Administration Nitemare for they could very well eliminate them., they have no choice but, to come clean now. Who knows, this might be light America needs to clean it up. !

    • gozounlimited

      Obama voted against the Iraq War……

      • Just Some Guy

        Um… that would be kinda hard considering he was not even a Senator yet… so take that and stick it where some other non-thinkers/knowers are…

        • gozounlimited

          Obama voted against H.R. 2206 in 2007 which funded the Iraq War without including a timetable for withdrawal. [source: The Washington Post].

          If you are interested in sticking it ….. you’ll have to call Jodie Arias ….. she’ll help you out.

      • Jay R.

        Yea but he changed when he took office. Personally I think he is trying to protect the Jews and Saudi’s and the bad folks in the US that Planned and executed 9/11. If it came out that these people did it (jews, Saudi’s and US) then the Arabs will be pissed as will the rest of the world and they will hate us for the bull crap we pulled on 9/11. Since that would mean that we took out 5% of Iraq’s population for no good reason, and changed our constitution for no good reason. So Obama has to play the game or risk losing in a different way. I think It would be in the best interest in the world if we take our licks now and deal with this rather than pushing these problems down the road like we have done with our finances. The truth will set you free 9/11/2013!

    • Aquinas

      God I love crazy people, especially stupid, racist crazy people. You go girl!

      • stonehillady

        Typical response from one who refuses to get educated & rather rely on the MSM who’s Job it is to keep the sheep occupied with frivolous pouf balls, celebrity idol worship & sports, who tells you to call someone a racist because your just too stupid to research the FACTS of who is & has been running the world for the last 1700 yrs.

    • WheneverTheWhether

      Jews did 9/11. jews have destroyed Christianity in America, they detest Christians and have spent the past 100 years making moronic slaves out of Christian Zionists, the total opposite of what Jesus preached. Whatever you believe, just understand that jews curse Jesus’ name every day and have been at war with Christianity for 2,000 years. Stop worshipping Satan and read Jesus’ words and story you’ll realise how through their media they have contributed to the decline of Christianity across the Western world. They hate you, and yet you worship them.

      • stonehillady

        The rabbit hole goes alot deeper then Jews, the Jews are the Vatican Bankers, made the scapegoat to get the goyim angry at them. Who really runs the show is the Vatican, all ways did & do now, it is the Jesuits that you have to look out for they are the Popes henchmen & it’s been going on for 1700 yrs. The Jews were allowed to take over for the Knights of Templar, the original Bankers, the Vatican wanted no exposure, so who better then the Jews to appoint to look after the money, remember the Pharisees , let them be blamed, for they do not know what they have done…

  • Watanabe

    Cheney could never have been ‘elected’ by a fanbase that would have been intimidated by his intelligence. Not that Bush was actually elected but the illusion worked for a while, and he was the perfect poster boy for the cabal; Texan, dumb, and gung ho on fighting the world in the name of freedom and ‘America.’

  • Lame

    Cheney? Please, all this reveals is how broken and pathetic government bureaucracy is. It’s no surprise they didn’t know this was coming, it would have taken them 5 years after it happened to even figure it out happened.

  • AFV

    Lock his ass up. Or take that heart we tax payers paid for. Jerk.

  • gozounlimited

    As soon as the check clears …… we go in……

    BILL HICKS on War & Freedom….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkZQ2Fx1j9E&playnext=1&list=PL8DA64CDF78DBF33A&feature=results_video

  • Winston Smith

    There were NO planes hijacked on “9/11″, it’s all FAKE! Colin Powell gave the Taliban $48.5 million in May of 2001, and the scenario “of a plane hitting the WTC” was the premiere episode of FOX “X-Files” spin-off, “The Lone Gunman” in March of 2001. The videos of a plane hitting the second tower were all computer generated and matched to a real explosion (the dialogue is almost the same in all of them); there is NO evidence of a plane hitting the Pentagon, or crashing in Pennsylvania. Yet the “media” would have you believe this crap. Don’t believe me? Google it! There is also a great tutorial on YouTube that shows how easy it was to fake the “9/11″ videos (and Obama’s birth certificate!). WTFU!

    • Fred

      Goofy conspiracy theories don’t help.

      • Capt Jack Obvious

        Not knowing how your eyes work doesn’t help either.

      • http://profiles.google.com/vagnsorensen Vagn sorensen

        Yea! It certainty looked goofy when Fox news clearly showed a perfect intact nose of that terrorist plane coming out of the other side of the tower…..some video artist must have really goofed lol!……..that was what you meant….wasn’t it?

    • realnewz

      What do you think about Osama/Obama similiarities? Photoshop?

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8463657.stm

  • Washington76

    2.3 TRillion Dollars Missing from DOD The Day before 9/11/2001

    Here is why they went to war! Distraction from their failures, and keep it hidden from every American!

  • Anonymous Coward

    Dude – he WAS the president. Everyone knew Bush the Lesser was just a puppet.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/AJ4WSS44AJOJW52LNDSFLFQ3MQ GEORGE

      And an idiot

      • stoney

        You give ‘W’ way too much credit.

      • stoney

        You give ‘W’ way too much credit.

      • stoney

        You give ‘W’ way too much credit.

      • Kevin White

        Idiot snake ass puppet !

    • http://www.facebook.com/muhammad.othman.940 عباس بن فرناس

      true

  • amerikagulag

    I guess this article is supposed to provoke shock. Or something. The government has not told ONE WORD of truth since Israel did 911. So what else did he lie about? EVERYTHING! He’s a narcissistic psychopath and a pathologica liar.

  • http://twitter.com/Andrewk529 Andrew

    This doesn’t surprise me; I am looking forward for more revelations to be exposed.There are far too many inconsistencies with the presented “facts”.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    • Albury Smith

      I’d recommend taking a closer look at Box Boy’s presented “facts.”

  • Archie Bunker

    I doubt this story. I hope to seevvalidation.

  • Lopsy

    Cheney WAS President on 9/11. He was president for eight years. What else is new?

  • noname63

    Cheney and Rumsfeld were behind the events on 9-11-01. Bush may have not even had a clue. If anyone was out of the loop, it was probably Bush. Too bad neither Cheney nor Rumsfeld will ever be charged, tried, convicted or imprisoned for their crimes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/daniel.carson.1654 Daniel Carson

      Why does other country’s want the Bush’s to answer questions pertaining to 9/11?

      • vera

        daniel carson, why do you not speak your own language correctly? before you start attacking other countries?

        • f_lawless

          Vera, before you criticise Daniel, you should know that it’s not appropriate to insert a question mark in the middle of a sentence! ;)

    • Mike, Indy

      My feeling is that W was clueless. He probably was so used to signing authorizations for Cheney’s many war games that he unwittingly authorized the real thing for 9/11. That’s why he gave the deer in the headlights look & did nothing when first informed by Andy Card on the morning of 9/11. No time to prepare what to say & look heroic. Had to play along.

      • Albury Smith

        My feeling is that you and “noname63″ are clueless. There were no war games on 9/11 that deviated from the norm, and these people were solely responsible for the suicide attacks of 9/11:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6obQ5naNn0

        From OBL’s 1998 (second) fatwa: “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies-civilians and military-is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, ‘and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,’ and ‘fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God [blah, blah, blah…]'”

        • Dave Eboch

          Proven fact that this was a fake actor. The real Bin Laden was a CIA asset named Tim Osman.

          • Albury Smith

            You can’t possibly be that stupid. A CIA-led SEAL raid KILLED bin Laden in May, 2011, and 7 CIA and 2 other Americans were killed by an AQ sympathizer with a suicide bomb on December 30, 2009 while trying to locate him:
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8442473.stm

          • rose

            @ Albury, thats what the media reported, but does that make it true? And do you really need to be so rude by calling someone stupid?

          • Albury Smith

            Why would a stone-cold killer of innocent people in the US, UK, Spain, and other nations, and the target of a ~15 year-long CIA manhunt be a “CIA asset,” pray tell? The US Navy SEAL raid that offed this monster isn’t just “what the media reported”; it’s what every government, intelligence agency, legitimate media source IN THE WORLD reported, as did al Qaeda.
            7 CIA bin Laden trackers and 2 other Americans were KILLED by an al Qaeda sympathizer inside Camp Chapman near Khost, Afghanistan on December 30, 2009, and I should be polite to someone who made up a cute name for the man they were after, and libeled those courageous and dead American heroes with nonsense?

          • Beowulf73

            Man, you must of drank a very, very large glass of kool-aid. Maybe you ought to stop taking your talking points from government propagandist TV. I could point you to some good sources but I am sure you would not understand as most minds, like parachutes, only work when they are open.

          • Albury Smith

            If you have another version of the US Navy SEAL raid that offed your al Qaeda hero on May 2, 2011 in Abbottabad, Pakistan, please feel free to share it with his 3 wives and 11 children who were living there with him at the time. I’m sure al Qaeda and the government of Pakistan would be interested in your remarkable insights too.
            9/11 troofers rock.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shaun.kroese Shaun Kroese

    Heck I have been saying this for years and I have been called a liar, a screwball just to name a few, and one more thing, The US took down the Twin Towers. No one else. mark my word on it and soon you will read the truth. Just like who really killed JFK?

    • Albury Smith

      Since 236 of the 283 columns in each tower were in plain sight, and no one saw or heard demolition explosives coming from the extremely high collapse zones of each, I’d rather take the word of the FDNY, NYPD, PAPD, and countless other live eyewitnesses who were there on 9/11.
      hint: They’re not in your 9/11 “truth movement,” nor is anyone else with any sense.

      • mariposa2014

        That’s an outright lie. Many people of whom you mentioned heard and saw the explosives. They were even recorded on film. There were even people on the ground who saw one of the airplanes and they all said that it was not a passenger airline but a cargo plane with no windows. They were eyewitnesses. And if you can explain how an impact of an airplane can pulverize entire buildings then you need to re-work the whole concept of physics to explain your theory. It isn’t even possible let alone plausible. It’s the classic case of who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes. I’ll believe my own eyes, thank you.

        • Albury Smith

          So American Airlines, United Airlines, the ATC who tracked the flights to that location, the NTSB, FBI, and countless other eyewitnesses to the airliner debris are all lying? Many FDNY and others are on record saying that they heard explosions in the fires, but I’ve seen none who claimed that they were DEMOLITION explosIVES, or linked them to any of th 3 hi-rise collapses, so please feel free to name some of them.
          It’s not only possible and plausible, it’s a fact that gravity pulverizes things quite well when ~500,000-TONS collapses from a height of more than 1/4 mile. Both towers managed to survive the plane impacts, but massive fires started by ~9500 gallons of flaming jet fuel eventually did them in.
          If you disagree, please explain your new physics to the ASCE, SEI, NCSEA, NIST, RIBA, AIA, ICC, Structure Magazine, Engineering News Record, etc.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=537322845 Diane Culp-Schnell

            Published on Sep 15, 2012
            Why do we have such a hard time accepting the scientific facts which disprove the official story about the most important event of our time? Please watch this 2 hour documentary which will, toward the end of the film, explain the reasons for our collective denial. This is the most important documentary you will ever watch. If you care anything about the integrity of science and the future of civilization, you will take time to consider the information detailed in this excellent documentary film by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIOJJbIIfs4

          • Albury Smith

            Why is a video with EXPLOSIVE[S], EVIDENCE, and EXPERTS in its title
            completely devoid of all three? If “you care anything about the integrity of
            science,” why are you citing profiteering crackpots who divine the cause of a
            building collapse by how fast it falls, lie about collapse times, call
            room-temperature dust clouds that leave paper trails “pyroclastic,” think magical unknown forces turn concrete floor slabs completely to dust in seconds, and profess to know of explosives or incendiaries that keep steel molten for months?

            Since the cores of all 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises had W14 X 730 columns
            in their cores – 11 of 24 in WTC 7, and all 4 corners of the tower cores – why
            won’t they show us how 4.91″ flanges and 3.07″ webs are actually cut with their
            imaginary substances instead of presenting some psycho-troofers telling us why
            we don’t drink their Kool-Aid, and some so-called “experts” who marvel over the
            obvious fact that collapsing buildings all do it pretty much the same way
            regardless of cause? If they were ever forced to do it, we’d never hear another peep out of them about secret controlled demolitions in NYC.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Wow-you took the blue pill! Seriously, I have used magic to great effect to keep my steel wood stove from melting from the heat or losing half its strength as NY Time reporter Glanz said about fires in WTC bldgs -and I have a really great spell to keep my steel pots and pans from melting from the intense heat of the controlled burn of the gas stove. After all if you live in a Medieval world where physics don’t apply, you definitely need these little tricks!

          • Albury Smith

            Since your wood stove wasn’t supporting a heavy load, and parts of it don’t heat up at all, how do you know how much strength the steel lost? Temperatures in the upper air levels of normal office fires are sufficient to reduce the room-temperature yield strength of steel framing by nearly 80%, which is why SFRM or other passive fireproofing is mandated by all steel-framed hi-rise building codes, and sprinkler systems are required and must meet coverage standards.
            No NIST collapse hypothesis includes the melting of any steel, but congratulations on your good fortune with pots and pans at controlled temperatures well below the melting point of even aluminum.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Right-the gas stove fire-a controlled burn-is about 1000 F-much lower than the melting point of steel and aluminum-which is why a fire powered by jet grade kerosene and drapes, desks and carpets could not possibly have melted 100,000 tons of steel in the WTC and explosively flung huge sections of the aluminum and steel exoskeleton facade across Fezzy St. Not to mention bending steel girders into horse-shoe shapes.  and leaving molten metal in the basements until Dec. 19 (check if you can find it Fox TV’s program ‘Metal of Honor’ which celebrated the workers who cleaned up the site-they mentioned the molten metal and interestingly enough that special was never shown again!)
            The NIST reports speaks of the softening of the steel but that is contravened by UL’s earlier tests and certifications of the steel used  which showed the steel retaining its strength for over two hours at high temps-higher temps than kerosene can reach. 9/11 was a Shock and Awe black-op to destroy our civil liberties and begin an endless series of wars. They have been quite successful in achieving their goals. .

          • Albury Smith

            So your imaginary substance is both a high explosive (that doesn’t make any loud booms when detonated) AND an incendiary? The melting of steel is not in any NIST collapse hypothesis, no partially melted columns or other steel members were found in the debris, and you just told Kevin Ryan’s version of UL steel testing, not UL’s. Ryan tested water quality for UL until they canned him for lying about them. He lies a lot:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/RyanFraud1.jpg

          • MaatMenNefer

            If you will read/listen to the firemen talking about 9/11, you will see plainly stated that there were explosions heard throughout the buildings and there was the sound of 3 large explosions on tape made by both news media and amateurs from different places. But you live in the Other universe so the physics are no doubt different.

          • Albury Smith

            I certainly hope my understanding of physics is different from yours. The FDNY you’re quote mining for “explosion” did not claim to have heard DEMOLITION explosIVES, no hi-rise collapsed around that time, and they didn’t claim that one did. Real C/Ds sound like this:

            and there was no need to ask people within a block or two of Landmark Tower whether they heard the explosions; everyone in Dallas/Ft. Worth with normal hearing most likely did.
            Since you believe in evidence-free C/Ds of billions of dollars’ worth of prime Manhattan real estate without any plausible and coherent motive, please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to show you on video with audio how
            explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215
            sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and
            the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:

            If
            they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Are you saying the towers were ‘prime’ real estate? They were white elephants with asbestos that was supposed to be removed which would cost billions of dollars and no insurance company would touch that price.
            There were explosions heard: small ones throughout the building and three very large ones, recorded on various news tapes just before each tower came down. The firemen on their radios were talking about explosions in the building as did many of the survivors who managed to get down and out before the building ‘collapses’. You can see the smoke of one of the ground level explosions on several news tapes as well. And of course WTC 7…I guess it just fell down in despair because its friends were gone? And how did the BBC know it was going to fall down, let alone report that collapse 20 minutes Before it happened?  God? Evil Magicians?
            The ‘real ‘ conspiracy theory is the absurd one put forth by the government that 19 untrained or at best very poor fliers hijacked the 4 planes and brought down the buildings with kerosene..and of course ‘vaporized’ the plane that hit the Pentagon, also with kerosene. And don’t forget the ‘magic’ bullet they claimed killed JFK (was he in your universe also?) As much as I enjoy the Harry Potter series, I find the ‘magic’ bullet very difficult to accept, along with kerosene that , according to PBS on special about 9/11  ‘burned twice as hot as a nuclear reactor.’ Really…the populace has been too bewitched by Hollywood, I think.
            In my universe such things do not happen. The propaganda, yes but  according to physics, kerosene does not melt steel. I am sorry it does in yours; it must make things very chaotic, not knowing whether your edifices will hold up if one has an accidental trash can fire.

          • Albury Smith

            Vornado Realty Trust was high bidder; Silverstein Properties got the WTC leases by default when Vornado tried to cut the 99-year duration by more than half. Asbestos was written out of all US building codes while the towers were under construction, but the bottom 38 floors of the North Tower already had “hot” SFRM on the steel. The South Tower was built second and had none, nor did WTC 7. The asbestos in the lower part of the North Tower was almost all removed during various tenant fit-outs prior to 2001.

            Asbestos abatement is done every day, and is certainly not a reason to demolish multi-billion dollar buildings and then spend more than twice as much rebuilding them while paying $120 million to the PANYNJ and forfeiting huge cash flow from tenants for a decade+.

            Kerosene doesn’t melt steel and no NIST hypothesis includes the melting of steel, no PBS special ever claimed that the fires “burned twice as hot as a nuclear reactor,” and the FDNY you’ve quote mined for “explosion” never claimed to have heard DEMOLITION explosIVES and linked the loud bangs in the burning buildings to a hi-rise collapse.

            The BBC knew that WTC 7 was EXPECTED to fall down, as did many others:
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/accountsofwtc7damage
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofthewithdrawalfromwtc
            Someone misread a bulletin on a hectic news day. I doubt whether Jane Stanley and her BBC colleagues had the Lower Manhattan skyline memorized, and the mistake may have been made by another reporter or a wire service before the bulletin even got to BBC. Since troofers claim that their evil and imaginary villains want the collapse kept secret, why would they have been in such a big hurry to get out the news?

          • MaatMenNefer

            I am glad in your universe these things did not happen. In my world PBS did indeed make the remark about the heat. Also more than one newscaster said it looked like controlled demolition. As did firemen.
            And the steel was melted. There was liquid steel in the foundations as well as something called the ‘meteorite’ which is a combination of concrete and melted and then congealed steel mixed together; something never before seen. In my universe of course.
            Since no steel building has ever collapsed in such a way before, and on that one day 3 buildings fell down..and WTC7 especially showing certain characteristics of demolition-such as the first collapse of the ‘penthouse’ where much of the air-conditioning machinery was located-that collapse being a sign of the central columns or core being destroyed first, this so called ‘collapse’ is quite suspicious since that building had not been hit by falling debris and did not suffer fire on more than a few floors. In my universe.
            I congratulate you in living in a totally explicable universe were everyone except the devious al Qaeda  is positively seething with good will and innocence. In my universe people are much more ‘Machiavellian’ (he probably does not exist in your universe) and act from some very base motives so lies, deceptions and murder are quite routine by governments as well as self appointed vigilantes.
            And false flags and mercenaries are also very common. We even had something called ‘The Craft’ at the site of a bombing in Boston. They wear the ‘totenkoph’ (death’s head) logo on their caps-so evocative of something we experienced in a government run by people called Nazis in a war we once fought.
            Thank you so much for a glimpse of your totally logical and unblemished world although I still would not trust an elevator or a high rise building since your building codes must be very flimsy indeed for such  comparable buildings as our twin Towers to fall down with so little heat or by the impact of a plane alone. After all, our Empire State building was hit by a bomber just after the end of our Word War II and although it was built in the 1930’s, it did not fall down either and was not even structurally weakened. Our Twin towers were much stronger and only explosives could have brought them down. In our world we have building codes which also say what kind of furnishings can be used and most furnishings meet certain standards so even if they burned, they can rarely if ever reach 1000 F. Also black smoke, in our world, represents an oxygen starved fire that is not burning as hot as it might.
            Either way, no point in continuing. I’m glad all is explained to your satisfaction in your world. I understand all too well what is happening in my world as well but thankfully you do not live in it apparently. Get the book by Webster Griffin Tarpley ‘ 9/11Synthetic Terror Made in America’ Very useful for understanding what is going on in the world I live in. In fact he even mentions the theory that flight 800 was hit by a missile on July 17 1996, which is information that recently came out again in this world. The important thing about this is Tarpley wrote his book in 2006 and reports Pierre Salinger mentioned this at that time of the mysterious crash in ’96, alleging it was a Navy test that went astray and now 17 years later, FAA men who have retired and are now free to speak are confirming this rather than supporting the theory advanced at the time that it was an electrical short. Lying and cover up is as natural as breathing in my world.
            I once sat and watched  buildings fall on TV on 9/11 and just said over and over ‘I don’t beleive this is happening’ but even having lived through the many assasinations and certain lies that got us in the war called Viet Nam I did not reject the explanations of planes, hijackers, kerosene until I read the article ‘Muslim’s Repeal The Laws of Physics.’  Either there are rules of physics that cannot be broken on this plane or I am as good at casting spells as the bad Wizard bin Laden since no hydrocarbon flame has ever melted my wood stove or my cooking pots whereas it is plain that they used dark magic to bring down the Towers; it was Fiend Fyre, no doubt.
            Stay in your world where you are mostly safe. Do not attempt to cross the bounds for this world I live in is unjust and violent; the government is not your friend and as one of our departed rock stars once sang: ‘the future is uncertain and the end is always near.’ But for those of us who read up on spies, history, and geo-politics, it is at least as interesting as it is oppressive.
            Best of luck!

          • Albury Smith

            It’s fortunate the you’re not a structural or fire safety engineer. Since you believe in secret controlled demolitions in NYC, please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to show you on video with audio how
            explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215
            sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and
            the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:

            If
            they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.

          • MaatMenNefer

            I don’t know Box Boy and  I have plenty of videos which support controlled demolition.
            9/11 was the perfect excuse to institute the Fascism we are currently living under. Perhaps it does not matter to you that all our communications are being monitored. 9/11 was the perfect excuse to do this under the rubric ‘National security’ At least you have nothing to fear as you seem to be a ‘Good German’-one of our local ‘Not Sees’.
            I suspect I am considerably older than you; I have seen enough to know what is going on and I have watched it for a great deal longer than 9/11/01.
            Enjoy your world.

          • Albury Smith

            Here’s Box Boy in action:

            9/11 was an(other) al Qaeda suicide attack on the US, and the resulting NYC hi-rise collapses had no effect whatsoever on subsequent US foreign policy, despite your “plenty of videos which support controlled demolition.” They also cost the owner/lessee, his tenants, ConEd, owners of nearby buildings, and many insurance companies worldwide BILLIONS of dollars, so you’re stuck with no motive for these impossibilities too.
            Here are 2 of many videos supporting fire-induced collapse of WTC 7:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFJa9WUy5QI
            Once again, ask Box Boy and his “experts” to show you on video with audio how explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:
            http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png&imgrefurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/sustainability8.html&h=478&w=638&sz=404&tbnid=q-S41Ix2mT4HeM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__UlCatIoHNuaIBUbQaF2PuEchSxU=&docid=adi9gO1tvsGG9M&sa=X&ei=FIbgUaLxFOr54APlsYHABA&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw&dur=135
            btw, if you’re “considerably older than [70 years young],” you didn’t learn much along the way.

          • Albury Smith

            It’s fortunate the you’re not a structural or fire safety engineer. Since you believe in secret controlled demolitions in NYC, please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to show you on video with audio how
            explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215
            sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and
            the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:

            If
            they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.

          • Albury Smith

            It’s fortunate the you’re not a structural or fire safety engineer. Since you believe in secret controlled demolitions in NYC, please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to show you on video with audio how
            explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215
            sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and
            the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:

            If
            they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.

          • Albury Smith
          • Albury Smith
          • Albury Smith

            Vornado Realty Trust was high bidder; Silverstein Properties got the WTC leases by default when Vornado tried to cut the 99-year duration by more than half. Asbestos was written out of all US building codes while the towers were under construction, but the bottom 38 floors of the North Tower already had “hot” SFRM on the steel. The South Tower was built second and had none, nor did WTC 7. The asbestos in the lower part of the North Tower was almost all removed during various tenant fit-outs prior to 2001.

            Asbestos abatement is done every day, and is certainly not a reason to demolish multi-billion dollar buildings and then spend more than twice as much rebuilding them while paying $120 million to the PANYNJ and forfeiting huge cash flow from tenants for a decade+.

            Kerosene doesn’t melt steel and no NIST hypothesis includes the melting of steel, no PBS special ever claimed that the fires “burned twice as hot as a nuclear reactor,” and the FDNY you’ve quote mined for “explosion” never claimed to have heard DEMOLITION explosIVES and linked the loud bangs in the burning buildings to a hi-rise collapse.

            The BBC knew that WTC 7 was EXPECTED to fall down, as did many others:
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/accountsofwtc7damage
            http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofthewithdrawalfromwtc
            Someone misread a bulletin on a hectic news day. I doubt whether Jane Stanley and her BBC colleagues had the Lower Manhattan skyline memorized, and the mistake may have been made by another reporter or a wire service before the bulletin even got to BBC. Since troofers claim that their evil and imaginary villains want the collapse kept secret, why would they have been in such a big hurry to get out the news?

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • onlyHighSchoolPhysicsNeeded

            Free fall into the path of greatest resistance = violation of physics as known on planet earth.

          • Takiwiaa

            Enough! You need to regroup, really. No one with any critical thinking abilities believes your nonsense.

          • alburyt

            Someone with critical thinking abilities would address my comments substantively and specifically.

          • mtj3134

            lol and they fell straight down, in their own building footprint lol

          • alburyt

            That’s funny to you? Which way was gravity pulling in NYC on 9/11/01?

      • MaatMenNefer

        Excuse me? The FDNY tapes clearly say that many of the firemen in the buildings heard explosions and mentioned bombs. And one tape from the 78th floor says ‘We have two isolated pockets of fire. Radio 78th floor that two isolated pockets of fire and we can knock it down with two hose lines’ That is a matter of public record. BTW Albury-would you like to buy a bridge?

        • Albury Smith

          Many FDNY and others close to the burning hi-rises heard explosions at one time or another from various places inside. You failed to notice that not one of them said he heard DEMOLITION explosIVES and linked the loud bangs to a building collapse. You could also count on one hand the number of signatories to the “firefighters” for 9/11 “truth” petition who even CLAIM to be FDNY, so they’re apparently not as smart or concerned as you are.
          Chief Orio Palmer, the man who made that radio call, was a marathon runner, and reached the 78th floor of the South Tower – the highest any first responder got. The centerline of UA 175 hit 3 stories above there, and fires spread upward. Floors 44 and 78 in both towers were sky lobby floors, i.e. plenty of marble and very little combustible furniture and office equipment. Impact was on the south wall, and the main fires were on the east and north walls, not in emergency stairwells in the core. People a lot farther away and looking from the outside of the building had a much better perspective of the overall picture than he did.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Yes, Brian Forbes who got down from the tower noted that once they got below the fire which he said was ‘starved for oxygen’ found that everything below the plane strike floors was fine-‘lights were on and air conditioning was working’ The only combustibles in the towers were office furniture, drapes and carpets. Steel melts at 2700 F-an open air dirty burn can only get to 1200. And most of the fuel ignited and exploded outside the building. What about the woman waving from the site of the plane strike? How could she be doing that if everything was so hot?
            As far as I can see-between the Official Story and 9/11 Truth- for the Official Story to be true the deed must have been done with black magick. But then the Republicans know a lot about that-the stars on their Official Elephant Logo have been reversed beginning with Nixon’s campaign in 1968. I collect that sort of artifact BTW. Go on Ebay and check it out-you will find reversed pentagram stars for Nixon, Reagan Bush, Bush Quayle and of course ‘W’.
            Because they killed Kennedy with a ‘magic’ bullet too. And if you believe that, you surely want to buy this bridge!

          • Albury Smith

            Once again, don’t buy that bridge; just send Box Boy a huge
            donation for all of his “research” you’re regurgitating. Black smoke from fires
            is an indication of what’s burning, and office fires fueled by
            petroleum-based plastics from carpets, drapes, modular office furniture, and
            computer components always produce it. When buildings are ripped wide open on
            one side by 767s, flames are pouring out of holes on the other sides, and air is
            being fed through breached stairwells, elevator shafts, and utility chases, the
            result is hardly an “oxygen-starved fire.” Here are some other examples of black
            smoke from very hot fires:

            http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/BlackSmoke1.jpg

            http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/BlackSmoke2.jpg

            It’s totally absurd to claim that the massive fires started
            instantly over 10s of 1000s of sq ft of furnished office space by ~9500-gallon
            Molotov cocktails of burning jet fuel would be low-temperature no matter what
            office building it happened to, and the photos and videos of the towers show
            extremely hot fires that caused steel to bend slowly and then fail:

            http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg

            https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/ST1.jpg

            There is no melting of steel in any NIST collapse hypothesis, but
            very significant reduction in yield strength occurs at temperatures very common in any major office fire, and it happens much more quickly without sprinklers or SFRM
            with steel that is only bar joists weighing ~24#/foot, and tubular columns with
            1/4″ walls.

            Regardless of bunk from Rodriguez, another 9/11 crackpot/profiteer,
            explosions from flaming jet fuel and debris falling through express elevator
            shafts right after a plane hits are not evidence of C/D ~102 minutes later and
            ~1200′ higher up, nor do demolition explosives stink of jet fuel, blow off
            elevator doors, and burn people severely. He had no way of knowing when AA 11
            hit the North Tower from where he was in the basement more than 1200 feet below, and no one who does agrees with his crap about any explosions prior to impact, so it’s obvious that he’s simply lying about it. The lobby damage from falling debris occurred right after impact, and affected the street level, 44th floor, and 78th floor lobbies,
            even killing people on some of them, but was unrelated to the later global collapses.

            Explosives in real C/Ds simply cut steel; they don’t eject it across streets or
            melt it, and what was ejected weighed no more than ~3 tons, or only a tiny
            fraction of the ~125,000 tons and ~60,000 tons of upper building mass landing on
            the intact structures below from a story height. There was no force present that would have prevented these lateral ejections of debris during the collapses.

            If you think any of the WTC collapse dust was “pyroclastic,” you
            really don’t understand what the word means. Dust is produced by building
            collapses, not by explosives, and when it’s room temperature and leaves a paper
            trail, it’s clearly not pyroclastic, regardless of Box Boy’s dishonesty. Top-down
            collapses of huge buildings simply produce a lot more of it than other collapses do.

            Not that collapse speed is very relevant to cause, but your
            “researchers” are lying about all 3 of them too. The towers took 15+ and 22+ seconds
            respectively:

            and WTC 7’s exterior took ~8.5 seconds, after the interior had already collapsed for ~7 seconds. Free fall times from 1368′ and 610′ are ~9.22 seconds and ~6.15 seconds. Get Box Boy to tell you how he could see the bottom floors of WTC 7 in any video clearly enough for 1/10-second accuracy, and how he got 6.5 seconds for a ~8.5-second collapse.

            Your no-plane bunk is really too stupid to comment on, but here’s
            some of the overwhelming evidence you’re ignoring:

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

          • MaatMenNefer

            Once again-first of all I was incorrect-it was Brian Clark who testified about getting down the stairwells. Second those same 3 stairwells-part of the immense core-were so engineered as to be hermetically sealed against the ‘chimney effect’ which wold feed air to fire by the architects who designed the WTC.
            The steel did not slowly fail. If it had the collapse would have been asymmetrical, not straight down against the path of most resistance i.e. the mass of the building below. Furthermore, if the steel had slowly failed the collapse would not have happened at ‘free fall’ speed.
            And then there is the concrete, pulverized to extremely small particulate along with everything else in the buildings. There were no ‘pancaked’ floors at Ground Zero, no burnt or otherwise recognizable pieces of office furniture. ‘Dredlock’ clouds like those clearly visible in all pictures of the WTC collapse  are characteristic only of volcanic eruptions and mini-nukes. You saying they were just ‘dust’ is contradicted by those who were overpowered and engulfed in them.
            What power would also pulverize human bone fragments to less than a centimeter and hurl them across the street to the roof of the Duetsch Bank? Kerosene? Burning office furniture? Black Magick?
            How do you explain the huge volume of dust cloud that covered Manhattan? There is not enough juels of energy to pulverize concrete that small in jet grade kerosene even if most of it had not exploded in impressive fireballs OUTSIDE the buildings.
            As to accuse Mr. Rodriguez of being a faker who only wants money, you might consider he worked in the building 20 years; he selflessly worked, against firemen’s advice, to go unlock staircases and rescue people in spite of endangering his own life and he has lost everything he had as a result of what he has said. And he was NOT talking about the plane strike; he was speaking about an explosion in the sub-basement; the plane strike occurred immediately after.
            You show every sign of having grown up in the Reagan years and you appear to believe that the USA is blameless and noble despite massive amounts of evidence of lies and distortions going back (at least in my early lifetime) to the Kennedy assassinations, the lies of the Gulf of Tonkin which precipitated the Viet Nam War, the lie of the Kuwait ‘incubator babies’ parroted by HW Bush to launch ‘Gulf War I’ and of course the coup de etat by the 5 SCOTUS justices giving W the election. Why should 9/11 be any different when it allowed that group to launch an invasion of the entire Middle East for oil. They have broken the country, and the ongoing destruction of civil liberties (I am NOT letting Obama/ObombO off the hook either) will impact your life and your children’s.
            And the towers did not fall in the time you cite-they took only 10 seconds each. The videos of the collapses are widely available-time them yourself.
            PS I have no idea who ‘Box Boy’ is-the people who have put together the info I cite were either there or are pilots and military men who know a thing or two about explosives, flying planes and other things. Not to mention mathematics by which you can use time and distance to prove that the WTC did indeed fall at ‘free fall ‘ speed.
            And how do you explain Bldg. 7? It was not on fire except for a few floors, the other buildings of the complex took heavier damage from falling debris and yet they remained standing, only to be demolished as Ground Zero was being cleared later.
            PS I never said there was no plane-but I don’t go along with the ‘Official History’ story they was hijacked etc.  Then there is the pod and the flash-oh yeah I know you will already say-‘static discharge’ or ‘reflection’ but static discharge would be less visible and static electricity would not have built up on a plane flying on a clear day. And the flash was recorded (Tower 2) from several different angles, making a ‘reflection’ not a viable answer to the flash.You might check out pilot Standish’s page ‘Pilots for 9/11 Truth’ He flew airplane and he would know.
            Sorry but your parroting of the ‘Official History’ does not convince me a bit. But really-you should buy the bridge. It is a great bargain and I see that you will buy anything if you continue to support the ‘Official History’! Buy the bridge-it is a good deal.

          • Albury Smith

            You’re presenting what’s known as the Gish Gallop, defined
            here:

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

            The cores of the towers, unlike the new WTC 7, were only enclosed
            with GWB coreboard, a structurally insignificant fireproofing material that’s no
            match for 767s going 400 mph or more. The fires were not oxygen-starved, and
            were being fed plenty of air from gaping holes in the exteriors as well as from
            the shafts in the cores. The black smoke only indicated what was burning, and
            your accounts of Orio Palmer and Edna Cintron are just plain dishonest. Chief
            Palmer never reached the main South Tower fires on floors 81 and upward, and Ms.
            Cintron was standing in the North Tower impact hole on the north side, which was
            drawing in air to feed the fires 150′ to 200′ behind her on the south side where
            the bulk of the plane and office combustibles wound up. Quite obviously, no one
            was standing here and waving:

            http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg

            I have timed the tower and WTC 7 collapses, and none was at anywhere
            near free-fall speed, despite lies from Box Boy and your other 9/11
            “researchers.” If you don’t trust the video I posted, pick your own, and please
            note how much faster the airborne debris is falling compared to the collapse
            zones themselves. 15+ and 22+ seconds are the towers’ approximate times, and 8.5
            seconds is much closer for WTC 7’s EXTERIOR than Box Boy’s 6.5 or 6.6
            seconds.

            Rodriguez is a run-of-the-mill con artist and 9/11 profiteer, who’s
            the only one claiming that explosives went off before AA 11 struck, and couldn’t
            possibly have determined that from the basement. Since stairwell doors to
            secured tenant spaces are only locked from the OUTSIDE IN, he didn’t rescue
            anyone by having keys from emergency stairwells to those areas. It’s also very
            stupid to believe that demolition charges went off in the basement before
            impact, and then collapsed a building from ~1200′ higher up ~102 minutes later,
            or that explosives intended to collapse a building would smell of jet fuel and
            blow off elevator doors.

            “Box Boy” is a profiteering crackpot who drops empty cardboard boxes
            on each other to simulate steel-framed hi-rise collapses, started an
            organization of other kooks called ae911″truth,” lies about collapse times,
            calls room-temperature dust “pyroclastic,” and thinks secret explosives turn
            concrete floor slabs to fine dust in seconds, toss columns all over the place,
            and leave pools of molten steel in debris piles for months. It’s obvious that
            neither of you has the slightest idea what ~500,000 TONS does to things when it
            collapses from more than 1/4 mile in the air, but if he and your other “experts”
            know all about demolition, ask them to show you how W14 X 730s are secretly cut
            with explosives. They were the columns used on all 4 corners of both towers’
            cores, and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were also W14 X 730s, i.e. 4.91″
            flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections. Lotsa luck.

            Once again, if you’re still confused about what hit the Pentagon,
            here’s overwhelming evidence that it was a Boeing 757 designated as AA
            77:

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

          • MaatMenNefer

            From the alternate Universe.  I love the way the Boeing flight 77 just disappeared in your world. Nothing-no tail pieces-which on that model is 44 ft high. No wings-the entire wing spread being 125 ft. No seats, bodies, luggage. Impressive. And of course the unmarked undamaged lawn.
            Also in my Universe hydrocarbons deflagrate they don’t detonate. “Explosive materials are divided into towo groups, according to their progressiveness (i.e., the speed of propagation of their shock wave.)Explosives produce a shock wave whose speed of propagation is superior to a value of about six thousand feet per second. One says that they ‘detonate.’ Explosive materials whose sock wave speed is lower than that do not detonate. the deflagrate. this is the case, for example of gunpowder or hydrocarbons.” Colonel Pierre-Henri Bunel, graduate of Ecole Militaire of St. Cyr aka the French West Point.
            Now in your world the hydrocarbons of the kerosene (jet fuel) rushed down the elevator shafts, out the doors, into the Lobby and blew the marble off the walls and the glass out-all without showing any singing or burning .  In my Universe, because hydrocarbons can’t detonate, only deflagrate (i,e, burn) and because there are were no elevator doors on the Lobby level-you had to take escalators up to reach the elevators, the lobby was destroyed by a detonation whose shock wave force blew off the marble and blew out the glass. Ditto the pyroclastic flow which only occurs when there is a powerful detonation like a volcano or nuclear bomb.
            No galloping for me, oh resident of another reality.  Besides the magic disappearing Pentagon Plane did you also have  the magical surviving passport? Through the plane, through the fire ball, through the ejecta of the falling exploding towers to land handily close by on the pavement. What are the odds?  Of course we are supposed to be used to this. Was one of your presidents killed by a magic bullet? They say ours was! Imagine how the evil Magick of the Opposition has improved in the last 50 years!.
            I hope your buildings continue to stand. Farewell from the alternate Universe.

          • Albury Smith

            If you love the way Hani Hanjour crashed AA 77 into the Pentagon on his second try, after approaching too high the first time, here’s more information on it:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2
            Enjoy.

          • Albury Smith

            In my world the North Tower collapse started ~1200′ higher and ~102 minutes later than the events being distorted by Willie R. for fun and profit, and the collapses of ~500,000 ton buildings that were more than 1/4 mile high don’t leave much recognizable contents. In yours explosives cause “pyroclastic” dust clouds; in mine the dust is created only by the collapse itself.
            Send Box Boy plenty of money to keep your world going.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Good luck adhering to the Official State History.  I wonder what you will think when your world and world view finally collapses? There is plenty of evidence to be found from public sources such as ABC, Fox (even)NBC, BBC, books, photos, eye-witnesses, fire fighters, all sorts as to explosions, molten steel, thermate (a military version of thermite) and of course WT7. and the hole in the Pentagon was only 15-18 feet wide ( not meters as I mispoke) but no wreckage. To accept the ‘Official State Version’ you must to live in a very mysterious world where Gravity Demons behave in unpredictable manner such as throwing things outward as well as down as can be easily seen in film of the WTC collapse. That does not happen here so the conclusion is obviously debris was flung outward by explosive force.
            Of course in your alternate universe perhaps all is going well, you are not facing a falling standard of living, a deteriorating climate and increasing authoritarianism. I have watched hundreds of hours of video from that day; read many books. It is instructive to compare this with another game-changing event, the assassination of JFK. 50 years later the ‘magic’ bullet cover-up is still in place.
            Perhaps your alternative universe will fare better than this one. Still, if the buildings they build in your world are as flimsy as that, I’d stay out of skyscrapers in the future.
            Good-bye and good luck. I shall not bother replying any more.

          • Albury Smith

            The Gravity Demons would be more predictable to you if you had these people’s education and experience:
            http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/team_members.cfm

            Leslie E. Robertson is SE of record for both WTC towers, and does not think they were flimsy, nor does he question how 767s and massive fires collapsed them. His comments start at ~18:05 here:
            http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

          • MaatMenNefer

            From the alternate universe I did hear a few of Mr. Robertson’s remarks about the building and indeed, it was built with many safety features and much redundancy so stresses could be shifted to other parts of structure. The floor pans were both bolted and welded to the trusses that supported them and the trusses were cross braced. The core, having at it center, four concrete encased steel girders was constructed with an additional 47 surrounding steel box girders, enclosing the hermetically sealed three distinct stairwell levels to cancel the chimney effect, along with the elevator shafts which formed the rest of the core. The outside was 230 steel columns, also banded by steel and all coated in aluminum.  He says, in widely shown remarks in several videos, that he did design for a plane strike and the plane was the biggest of its time, the Boeing 707, which with 4 engines and a maximum take off weight of 330,00 lbs is actually larger than the two engine 757 with a maximum take off weight of 300,000. Robertson does say he did not take into consideration the plane fuel which is reasonable in this universe since steel has a very high melt point and plane fuel is just kerosene.
            Which brings to NIST report. Underwriters Laboratories certified the steel originally used in the construction of the WTC. The steel was tested to be good in high temps up to  2 hours without weakening ( I want to quote as 2700 F but I’d have to watch the video again-) So Underwriters Laboratories were called in again to build the models and test the theory of steel melting and floor models collapsing-the pancake theory. Only problem was, according to employee Kevin Ryan, the floor models did not fall and the steel did not melt even though the test had taken place in a furnace. So next they tried with ‘inward bowing theory’ and tested the steel taken from the remains of the WTC but the steel did not show it had sustained temps high enough to cause that effect (which would not explain the rapid fall of 10 floors per second anyway, which is the rate that the towers fell) So NIST took everything, changed times and temps, put in ‘black box’ computer (you don’t get to see parameters of data) and came up with result they wanted.
            Which result-collapse due to plane strike and high temps of fire-was first articulated by ‘man on the street’ in baseball cap being interviewed by Fox news saying’ I saw the plane just ram into the building and then explode through in an incredible fire ball and then I watched as the two towers came down, mostly due to heat and structural failure’ And wow-that is just what happened-if the laws of physics are totally ignored. For example in the heat spectrum, red is the coolest , next being yellow, and at the highest heat, white. Thus orange flames are evidence of a cooler burning fire. But then how is the public to know this when such idiocies as PBS ‘Why the Towers Fell’ intone in a voice of solemnity “Now the fires were burning 4 to 5 times the heat of a nuclear furnace” Not in this universe.
            Of course in your universe perhaps the government does not lie to its population. NIST being a government institution in this universe, alas, has not been the model of probity. Nor has the government, whose machinations to get us into a ruinous war with Iraq are now being shown to be spurious. Nobody at the time paid much attention to those in the streets protesting before the war began.
            Your zeal in believing the Official State History of this tragedy speaks well for your respect for authority . Unfortunately in this universe, the government has often abused its authority  as can be seen again and again.
            You can google Kevin Ryan, Underwriters Laboratories and NIST Study. You will probably turn up the substance of what I write from recall. Make you own decision.

          • Albury Smith

            Kevin Ryan was a water quality tester for UL, and was canned for
            misrepresenting himself as a company spokesman and lying about their steel
            certification protocols. He’s also deliberately inserted words into
            Silverstein’s innocuous statement that “THEY [the FDNY] made that decision to
            pull [abandon the firefighting effort in WTC 7],” and libels the owner regularly
            with the altered statement:

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/RyanFraud1.jpg

            Cause-divining building collapses by timing them is stupid enough,
            but he’s also claimed 6.5 seconds for the entire WTC 7 exterior collapse, and
            since it actually took ~8.5 seconds and the bottom floors aren’t visible in any
            of the videos because of buildings in the foreground and dust later on, he’s
            obviously lying about the time and the 1/10-second accuracy too.

            No one supportive of the mainstream account has ever claimed that
            the WTC fires were even hot enough to melt steel, let alone “4 to 5 times
            the heat of a nuclear furnace,” so you must’ve just dreamed that one up.
            NO steel framing can withstand infernos like the ones in both towers, and the
            bar joist framing in the towers very quickly heated up and sagged, pulling the
            thin-walled perimeter columns inward. That isn’t simply a theory; it’s very
            apparent from videos and photos pre-collapse, and is mentioned in NYPD aviation
            crew and other eyewitness accounts. Since only the 9/11 “truth movement” seems
            to have heard of the one interviewee who stated the obvious after witnessing the
            towers before and after they collapsed, your paranoia hardly seems warranted.
            236 of the 283 columns in each one were more than halfway outside of the living
            spaces and in plain sight, so most of the NIST hypothesis is very obvious just
            from watching the collapse videos. With or without SFRM, steel bar joists whose
            largest single member is a 3″ X 3″ X 1/4″ structural angle will not last long in
            any office fire environment, let alone in massive fires covering tens of
            thousands of square feet and started instantly.

            Les Robertson’s the SE of record for both WTC towers, and on the
            few occasions when he’s encountered 9/11 troofers, he’s stressed the fact that
            they didn’t collapse because of the plane hits, and expressed his complete
            contempt for their unscientific nonsense. You can believe him and the ASCE,
            NCSEA, SEAoNY, SEI, and the overwhelming majority of SEs and other experts, or
            you can believe proven liars like Kevin Ryan, Richard Gage, David Ray Griffin,
            the Loose Change jerks, and other luminaries of the 9/11 “truth movement.” Make
            YOUR own decision.

          • MaatMenNefer

            The building obviously did not collapse because of the plane hits. I did NOT mishear what was said on the PBS narration-the speaker definitely said it was burning ‘four or five times hotter than a nuclear furnace’ And the fires were never hot enough to melt steel so how did the buildings fall? If the fires could not melt steel I doubt they were hot enough to soften it either, and if so, how did they collapse so fast? Because even with ‘softening’ there will be resistance from below and yet they collapsed fast enough to negate all possibility of resistance from below.
            My universe is quite scarey but at least it makes sense. Somehow the physics in your universe seem very suspect to me.
            So how do you stand on the ‘magic’ bullet?  They still defend it in this universe; people are very superstitious here and hesitate to question the Official State History. Or maybe they are just afraid.

          • Albury Smith

            You are clearly not a structural engineer. Fires do not have to melt steel to reduce its room-temperature yield strength enough to cause a steel-framed building to collapse. Causes of collapses are not divined by real SEs with some simple-minded PhysicsToolKit analysis of stage-by-stage acceleration.

            Read and learn:

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/firesafetyengineering%26theperformanceofst

          • MaatMenNefer

            If the steel had ‘weakened’ and then experienced ‘crippling and buckling’ as the amended NIST report said causing the trusses to sag and fall due to sagging, the buildings would have fallen asymmetrically rather than completely symmetrically straight down against the greatest resistance, taking down the cores as well.  What actually happened could not have happened as the Official State History currently represents it.
            The illustration BTW shows the twisted steel of the building-still standing. Read the Kadar fire-too bad there are no blueprints but the buildings were smaller and I’m betting a lot flimsier than the WTC and the fuel load was, proportionally greater than anything the WTC experienced. BTW, Bill Manning of ‘Fire Engineering’ thought the official BPAT study on WTC a “half-baked farce”.
            Anyway, the interesting thing is that, this article, which alleges Cheney lied  is not being contested. There is way too much evidence of administration lying in things such as the reasons for Iraq War-what WMD? so why do you think that they are telling the truth about what happened to the WTC? The ‘reasons’ were already well established by the administration and the MSM by that evening, long before the 9/11 Commission ‘investigated’ and ‘established’ them.
            In the universe I live in, the vast coincidences, the various lies, and the testimony by eye-witnesses of whom there are many certainly gives many reasons to question the Official State History.

          • alburyt

            The Iraq invasion/occupation was a horrendous decision by the worst administration in US history, and would’ve happened with or without any hi-rise collapses resulting from the al Qaeda suicide attacks of 9/11. Please leave the science and engineering to people qualified to do it:
            http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/team_members.cfm
            BPAT was a FEMA study, not a NIST disaster or failure investigation, and quote mining Mr. Manning’s comments doesn’t help your credibility:
            http://www.911myths.com/html/fire_engineering.html

          • MaatMenNefer

            You seem to forget that Saddam Hussein was deliberately linked to 9/11 and 45% of Americans thought he was complicit. So without 9/11 I doubt it would have been so easy to say ‘Hey let’s go overthrow Hussein because…’ Let’s see if the same mechanism is put into play against Syria or Iran.
            Bill Manning was editor of Fire Engineering, the 125 year old fireman’s trade paper and his editorial was written in Jan. of 2002 were he wrote “For more than three months, strutural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen agian in America until you buy your next car….Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the ‘official investigation’ blessed by FEMA and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) is a half-bakked farce whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure.”
            Government these days is just a version of ‘Liar’s Poker’-the recitation of the lies is very long; ‘magic bullet'; ‘Gulf of Tonkin'; the ‘election’ of 2000; the Iraq War; 9/11’Official State History’ and on and on. Plenty of lies to go around. Meanwhile, the oceans are threatened, the aquifers are is threatened, the food suppliy is debased with GMOs, etc.
            At least in my Universe.

          • alburyt

            Evidence of C/D would have been very simple to spot on the steel, and none was found during the ~8 months of cleanup at GZ by any of the ~40,000 different pairs of eyeballs that saw it. Manning and Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, a structural engineer, obviously wanted a better investigation of the way in which the fires brought down the buildings, but they do not suggest something as impossible as secret controlled demolitions in a big city. The steel was sold as scrap because it’s worth ~$100/ton, and hundreds of tons of steel would cost a fortune to move unnecessarily, as well as to store while an enormously expensive forensic SE and fire engineering investigation was being conducted on it. Reconstructing all 3 hi-rises from the “as-builts” is theoretically possible, but the cost far outweighs the benefits to academia and industry.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Generally speaking, when a plane crashes or a building fails, there is some investigation done on why. The investigation on the WTC collapses was very sketchy-only $600,000 was spent compared to $60 Million to investigate Clinton. Very few pieces of the steel were held back from almost immediate recycling for the investigators. The Report on 9/11-the official one really has very few answers as to why the buildings fell (except the accepted reason-planes & fires) The same quick demolition (by the same company) also happened in OK city after that explosion. That building was not really examined before it was demolished, even though the archttect said it could be repaired. Air is a very inefficient conductor of blast force BTW.
            It is really more than academic to find the cause of the collapses; surely you want to know that your high rise is safe and won’t collapse like paper or a cheap beer-can in an emergency!
            Just because a thing is unthinkable does not mean it can’t be done. Buildings are brought down by controlled demolitions all the time. However, the mass of WTC might have caused some interesting problems because the explosive force seen, heard, and  felt was new to demolition.
            BTW, the security company in charge of the WTC and Logan and Dulles Airport was Securecom, one of whose controlling members was Marvin Bush, brother to ‘W'; another was their cousin Wirt. Again the ‘coincidence’ rule should be consulted.
            Alas in my universe the Good is not much revered and people do terrible things for wealth and power, inhumane and even unthinkable in your world.

          • alburyt

            The PAPD was in charge of WTC security. Securacom only furnished and installed electronic surveillance equipment under PANYNJ contracts after the 1993 terrorist bombing that actually did use explosives. GeeDubya’s brother was a board member of the company, and left his position on the board ~15 months before 9/11. There’s no information at all connecting Wirt Walker to the Bush family, and neither of them had anything to do with day-to-day operations of a company that didn’t run security there anyway.
            Secret C/Ds of NYC hi-rises are a 9/11 “truth movement” fantasy. Read the NIST reports, not bullshit from David Ray Griffin and his dupes. Jeezus…

          • MaatMenNefer

            Does it ever occur to you that authorities lie? That NIST lied and falsified data?  Obviously not.
            Remember never in history, before or since have three steel skyscrapers fallen down due to ‘fire’.
            And the first terrorist bombing was assisted by the FBI who gave their agent provocateur the real explosive. It is on tape, it can be listened to and found as transcript, because their agent was dumbfounded when instead of harmless powder they insisted he give the group the real thing.
            Mater of public record-not covered by Fox.

            But you are perhaps fortunate to live in a universe where all are honest, concerned and peaceful, where those who hold power are not corrupt and deceitful. Where there are no magic bullets, no false flag operations, no unjust wars. Perhaps in your world the standard of living is also going up, people can live lives of reasonable comfort and expectations and peace is more prevalent than war. You are more fortunate than we are.  The physics and socio-economic data are quite different here.

          • alburyt

            I don’t watch Faux “News,” but how many people do you want to libel with your nonsense? 230+ NIST experts were all “in on it,” along with hundreds or even thousands more?

          • MaatMenNefer

            Not my nonsense. I don’t do the research. However, people will lie for various reasons. And people will be outvoted by those who have an agenda of one kind or another-like invading Iraq.  And I do tend to believe experts in their fields, like pilots for example when they talk about the impossibility of the Pentagon story, or firemen who reported hearing explosions.
            I no longer watch any TV but I never watched Fox. Couldn’t stand it. What I report from it is on DVDs using news reports from all the major media outlets dealing with 9/11 as it was happening.
            People like to be in the majority. They don’t like to hold unpopular opinions. People who questioned the official version were quickly convinced to change their minds. Van Romero of NM Mining and Technology(Albq Journal 9/14/01) for example.  He originally wrote he suspected explosives were also used but then retracted his statement. Rumor has it he has since found preferment from the federal government. Coincidence?
            The steel, the primary evidence for explosions was quickly carted away. Of the few specimens tested, UL found that the temps never reached the point of melting steel.  But generally what investigation was done was hardly through. And the conclusion-Buildings Go Boom. Just like Fox Man said.

          • alburyt

            Does Bill Manning think that NYC building collapses on 9/11 had anything to do with US foreign policy after the AQ suicide attacks? Would the US have just sent bin Laden and his buddies a warning letter if the buildings had stood? It was the 3rd suicide attack in ~3 years, and absolutely nothing was done in response to the AQ suicide attack on the USS Cole.

          • MaatMenNefer

            The Bill Manning article was simply on the way the buildings fell and why collapse simply from fire and impact from planes was improbable. the entire interweaving of Bin Laden and Al Queda is a whole other subject. However, for those of us who are MIHOP (Made It Happen On Purpose) or ‘Inside Job’ Al Queda is just a creation of the CIA whose main operatives-such as the inept Hani Hanjour, who, according to the flight instructors at MD Freeway Airport took him up in a Cessna for a flight ‘check out’ which a pilot must pass before he can rent an airplane-insurance rules-was a man who ‘could not fly at all’ and yet this is the pilot credited with the stunning manuver into the Pentagon.
            The actual collapse of the WTC, the way the buildings fell, the physical facts involved (all the highly suspect explanations of the ‘Official State History’) are just one facet of what seems to be a massive con-job. The patsies of ‘Al Queda’ (or ‘Al CIA-duh’ in some lexicons) are just part of that and not real actors at all. But that is a whole other discussion! And one few people want to enter.

          • alburyt

            You should share your information on bin Laden and al-Zawahiri’s al Qaeda organization with every intelligence agency in the world, all of the world’s governments, and every legitimate media source in the world. Tell what’s left of AQ that they’re just patsies too. They don’t seem to have your vast knowledge of the topic.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Well once you get people good and mad, and have of course funded this organization that ostensibly have their ‘best interest’ at heart (and it is a matter of record that the CIA funded the mujahedin against the Russians in Afghanistan under Reagan./Bush-there is actually a James Bond movie that uses part of that as plot device) they will keep it up of their own accord. However, there is a considerable difference between low level terror of bombing a bus or a market or a hotel and bringing down 3 extremely large buildings at free-fall speed, buffaloing the entire national air defense of a first world power for over an hour, and repealing the laws of physics.
            I doubt the security establishment would be interested in what pattern I see the world, but what sources I have used for my world view are widely available.
            They are OTOH free to read all my e-mail and read my published articles or listen in on my phone conversations.
            There are real problems in the world. but the course being pursued will not solve them in the least.

          • alburyt

            I’m glad to hear that you have a better solution for this:
            http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military/july-dec96/fatwa_1996.html
            http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military/jan-june98/fatwa_1998.html
            If no NYC building had collapsed on 9/11, I’m sure the evil US government would just have sent bin Laden and his folks a stern warning letter.

          • MaatMenNefer

            That was delivered in 1998 and we removed our troops from Saudi Arabia. It really does not matter what is said, since if Al Qaeda is a CIA front, with OBL just another patsy (and a dead one-remember LHO-‘dead men tell no tales’) then anything he says is useful to the cause of the directors who hide behind the ostensible identity of Al Queda or whatever. It is Spy Level 101. You use cut-outs. OBL by proclaiming some sort of Islamic based pan-Arabic caliphate is helping remove all competition from competing secular Middle Eastern states. When in chaos and civil war, these states can offer no resistance to a Western power arrangement of their resources. such states can offer no competition to the ‘New World Order’ so beloved by the Bush-Men. Divide and Conquer. It works well domestically too. Be afraid, be very very afraid and you will of course surrender your civil liberties.

          • alburyt

            So the 2000 SUICIDE attack on the USS Cole was a CIA operation pinned on AQ “patsies” too? President Obama and many others, including me, are not “Bush-Men,” and while AQ strives for more influence in Syria, Yemen, Egypt, and other Middle East countries, have you noticed that the evil US is getting out of them after dropping a few trillion since 9/11? What on earth would YOU do after Afghan-based Islamic fanatics attacked your country THREE TIMES with suicide operatives in ~3 years, after writing 2 fatwas explaining why they did it, and deliberately left evidence of their involvement behind? What part of the wording in those 2 fatwas don’t you understand?

          • MaatMenNefer

            We have since lost and killed many more than we lost and killed in 9/11. Not to mention invading and destroying what was left of Iraq which had nothing to do with it at all. And then there is Libya; that has dropped out of the news. But our war widens as we use drones in Yemen and Pakistan as well as Afghanistan. And we still have troops in Iraq. And now we are aiding the French in Mali. But in certain ways-especially the viewpoint of Brzezinski and ‘the Grand Chessboard’ the destabilization of countries is good for us o0r at least the corporations that want their resources.
            Fatwas don’t scare me; words mean little. Besides you can hear much the same crap from the Xtian right. Certain factions of those folk want the death penalty for all sorts of things: homosexuality, astrology, adultery, atheism. I’ve been threatened with death for questioning the ‘Official State History’ of 9/11. Since the guy was over 6 ft. and weighed close to 300 lbs or more, I let it go and put it under ‘Pig & Whistle ‘ category. i.e.-‘don’t try to teach a pig to whistle; it wastes your time and annoys the pig’ but yes, being sh screamed at by a much larger and belligerent human is rather intimidating, but as you can see, I have hardly stopped; I just don’t bother with that person anymore.
            And we have not had another attack on the scale of 9/11 since. The USS Cole probably was Al Queda, although given the dubious history of said organization, it would not be a stretch to assume it was done by ourselves. Such things have been done. But I make no claim one way or another.  The point is, clear away all the smoke and mirrors and you have an event,9/11, which is explained in one way and which explanation ignore important physical facts which taken altogether, invalidates the official theory and thus all the events that follow-the official wars, the official secrecy, the official revoking of constitutional rights.
            As for Obama, we have not ended the wars, we have even more official secrets, and rights are being curtailed everywhere. And as a Democratic president, he is going after what was once held sacred to democrats-the progressive programs put in place by Roosevelt like Social Security.  Sorry, but Obama is just another corporate sock puppet. Why would he change anything? Besides, the bureaucrats who were in charge of things before he came for the most part remain in charge. Therefore a successful rogue network, embedded in the government, probably is still safe and snug and going about their business of making policy regardless of who is in the White House.

          • alburyt

            Regrettably, your right to be murdered by a terrorist has been curtailed by the Bush and Obama administrations, and 3 NYC building collapses had nothing to do with it. “Ourselves” don’t threaten people with fatwas and murder them in suicide ops.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Statistically I have more chance of being murdered by a fellow citizen or killed in a car wreck or even struck by lightning than being murdered by a terrorist. And since we have started numerous wars in the Middle East complete with killing of women children and old people, one would logically expect, if terrorism arises from people’s feelings of being under threat, that the actions of the government would increase that chance, not lessen it.
            Considering war is and what it does to flesh and bone, I hardly count the country I live in to be innocent. The three buildings have everything to do with what is presently happening which is why I do what I can, be it ever so feeble, to de-mythologize that event whenever the opportunity offers.
            Since 9/11 we have granted ourselves the right to strike preemptively, at whatever country we think might in some future attack us. We have OKd torture. We have vast security apparatus that listens to our conversations and reads our e-mail. We endure pat-downs at airports and our luggage can be searched without warrant on trains, buses. They hung people at Nuremberg for some of what we are doing today. “They hate us for our freedoms” So who won this?
            9/11 is a monstrous myth. It distorts the truth and destroys. Having lived in the shadow of the ‘magic bullet’, a myth that is 50 years old  and still defended by the Official Historians and expereinced the change in national life after that event, I am not fooled by the greater spectacle of 9/11.

          • alburyt

            If you have better ways of preventing suicide operatives from boarding planes carrying explosives or other weapons, you should share them with the proper agencies. Statistically, if you’re aboard a plane hijacked by Islamic suicide terrorists, you have a 100% chance of dying in a fiery crash, and the evil US gubmint is trying to prevent that.

          • MaatMenNefer

            That is why there is now Homeland Security and TSA. If they can’t do anything with all their resources well…and that is assuming that the ‘terrorists’ are from outside and not a false flag provocation. Again, in my world, false flags exist and are very successful. In yours they do not.
            But if confronted with nothing more than a box-cutter-I might take a chance on over powering someone. WTF, at this time in life ‘It’s a good day to die’

          • alburyt

            Our national air defense people were “in on it” too, and we really need a 9/11 “truth movement” to explain physics to all of NIST’s PhDs. If you’re interested in facts instead of nonsense, here’s what NEADS/NORAD had to deal with on 9/11:
            http://cleartheskies.com/timeline.html
            In 2001, 4 armed standby fighters within striking distance of NYC and DC was as good as it got, and they still needed notification from ATC through the FAA chain of command for domestic air traffic problems like hijackings. ~5000 aircraft in the skies over the US on 9/11, and minutes to respond? Won’t happen.

          • MaatMenNefer

            It was certainly a dogs breakfast between those two agencies but, without going into a minute by minute comparison-and its is always a few minutes here or there-tedious checking the timeline-some interesting things still stand out-the Otis jets were sent into holding pattern over Long Island after 11 crashed and the Langley jets were sent 150 miles out over the ocean. There seems little point in paying vast sums of money to uphold a great military if it fails so miserably to function. For example-in terms of glaring time dependency-the FAA claims it set up communication bridges at 8:50 whereas the 9/11 report shows it at 9:20 AM.  fighters were requested from Otis at 8:38; NEADS instructed Otis at 8:45. Airborn at 8:53. And then they did not travel as fast as they could since they were still 71 miles form NYC at 9:03-and these guys can fly 1875 MPH and reach NYC in 10 to 12 minutes so…generally speaking it looks like a sort of shell game going on. Not to mention the hijacking drills that were going on at the same time.

            But even if the timeline-the ‘Official’ timeline is correct, it does not explain the many anomalies which make up the Official State History.  The oral history of 9/11 by the firemen cite numerous explosions. So do survivors. So do the news-casters; you can easily hear them on tape.

          • alburyt

            NORAD’s 4 armed standby fighters could not be everywhere at once, and with ~5000 planes in the air, transponders on the hijacked ones switched off, and short notice from the FAA, they were unable to respond quickly enough. Otis’s 2 F-15s took off at the same time that AA 11 hit the North Tower, so they were hardly “sent into holding pattern” for very long. The 2 F-16s from Langley were ordered north to NYC, initially went east to avoid heavy air traffic in the DC area, and could not recover in time for the Pentagon attack. They might possibly have stopped UA 93, but we’ll never know for sure.
            That timeline is from Lynn Spencer, the author of Touching History, a book I’d recommend that you read. You have enough alleged perps in your WTC controlled demolition yarn without adding ATC, FAA command, and NEADS/NORAD to the plot too.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Basically not everybody is a witting plotter. In matters like that, strategically placed ‘moles’ can slow down the works effectively enough to bring about the desired results. The NORAD/FAA was not the only screw up in evidence. there were memos by Colleen Rowley and from Phoenix that were ignored before the events as well as investigations by John ONeil about terror cells that were also blocked. It is not just in one detail here or there you find evidence but in the gestalt of the whole pattern of events that form the 9/11 myth.

          • Albury Smith

            You’re presenting what’s known as the Gish Gallop, defined
            here:

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

            The cores of the towers, unlike the new WTC 7, were only enclosed
            with GWB coreboard, a structurally insignificant fireproofing material that’s no
            match for 767s going 400 mph or more. The fires were not oxygen-starved, and
            were being fed plenty of air from gaping holes in the exteriors as well as from
            the shafts in the cores. The black smoke only indicated what was burning, and
            your accounts of Orio Palmer and Edna Cintron are just plain dishonest. Chief
            Palmer never reached the main South Tower fires on floors 81 and upward, and Ms.
            Cintron was standing in the North Tower impact hole on the north side, which was
            drawing in air to feed the fires 150′ to 200′ behind her on the south side where
            the bulk of the plane and office combustibles wound up. Quite obviously, no one
            was standing here and waving:

            http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg

            I have timed the tower and WTC 7 collapses, and none was at anywhere
            near free-fall speed, despite lies from Box Boy and your other 9/11
            “researchers.” If you don’t trust the video I posted, pick your own, and please
            note how much faster the airborne debris is falling compared to the collapse
            zones themselves. 15+ and 22+ seconds are the towers’ approximate times, and 8.5
            seconds is much closer for WTC 7’s EXTERIOR than Box Boy’s 6.5 or 6.6
            seconds.

            Rodriguez is a run-of-the-mill con artist and 9/11 profiteer, who’s
            the only one claiming that explosives went off before AA 11 struck, and couldn’t
            possibly have determined that from the basement. Since stairwell doors to
            secured tenant spaces are only locked from the OUTSIDE IN, he didn’t rescue
            anyone by having keys from emergency stairwells to those areas. It’s also very
            stupid to believe that demolition charges went off in the basement before
            impact, and then collapsed a building from ~1200′ higher up ~102 minutes later,
            or that explosives intended to collapse a building would smell of jet fuel and
            blow off elevator doors.

            “Box Boy” is a profiteering crackpot who drops empty cardboard boxes
            on each other to simulate steel-framed hi-rise collapses, started an
            organization of other kooks called ae911″truth,” lies about collapse times,
            calls room-temperature dust “pyroclastic,” and thinks secret explosives turn
            concrete floor slabs to fine dust in seconds, toss columns all over the place,
            and leave pools of molten steel in debris piles for months. It’s obvious that
            neither of you has the slightest idea what ~500,000 TONS does to things when it
            collapses from more than 1/4 mile in the air, but if he and your other “experts”
            know all about demolition, ask them to show you how W14 X 730s are secretly cut
            with explosives. They were the columns used on all 4 corners of both towers’
            cores, and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were also W14 X 730s, i.e. 4.91″
            flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections. Lotsa luck.

            Once again, if you’re still confused about what hit the Pentagon,
            here’s overwhelming evidence that it was a Boeing 757 designated as AA
            77:

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

          • Albury Smith

            Have it your way. Cores which have been ripped wide open by 767s are “hermetically sealed,” and these fires are “oxygen starved”:
            http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg
            The best way to tell the severity of building fires are is to cite firefighters’ radio calls from 3 or more stories below them, and people escaping them by being on the other side of the building. Room-temperature dust clouds are “pyroclastic,” even when they leave a paper trail. Tenants are locked in their offices and can’t get to emergency stairwells unless someone runs up the stairs and unlocks the doors. Janitors in basements know when a plane crashes into floors ~1200′ higher in a building, but no one else does, and demolition explosives take ~102 minutes to cause a collapse from ~98 stories high up. They also stink of jet fuel, blow off elevator doors, and severely burn people.
            Numerous massive steel columns with 4.91″ flanges and 3.07″ webs are secretly cut with explosives multiple times in NYC, and we need a 9/11 “truth movement” to tell us about it.
            You’re priceless.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Do we live in different universes? I think so since in the universe in which I live, gravity draws objects straight down not outwardly in a lateral motion like the ejected 600,000 lb. piece of WTC facade lodged in the building across the street as seen in FEMA photos. and orange flames indicate a temperature much lower than that of a blast furnace which is needed to achieve the temperature to melt steel also , since the core and stairwells for each of the ‘3’ buildings,joined by the heavily reinforced sky lobbies that formed each tower were designed to prevent the ‘chimney effect’ and NONE of the windows were made to be opened, aside from the places where the planes struck the buildings, all the rest was pretty closed off from the part that was on fire. I know from my fire training that to keep a fire from spreading, closing off the room on fire will help. although smoke will ignite when the temperature reaches a high enough degree and especially if it is confined in a space, none of that is evident in this picture. the flames are orange-denoting an ordinary hydrocarbon fire in a dirty burn. Before the N Tower fell there is a picture of a living woman standing in what had been your steel melting raging inferno waving  for help.
            More than one fireman, more than one reporter, more than one recording device reported several explosions in the towers before they fell. People escaping  as reported by the firemen helping them down the stairwells, were covered from dust from the explosions before the towers fell.  When the excavated the fundations, not only was there still molten metal found thee but the slurry walls which had kept out the sea and Hudson river water had moved  mor thna three feet and more than 60 feet were standing unsupported. something blew those walls . Another worker Paul Morelli testified how he had been thrown to the ground by an explosion in the basement and when he and others had rushed up the parking ramps and had to run to Tower 2 because that is the way he had to go to get out another explosion and shock wave flung him to the floor.. this is all a matter of public record which you can easily find.
            Basically there are so many inconsistencies to the ‘Official History’ that  I must conclude it is a shabby fabrication made for those who don’t understand the physical facts of the universe in which we live or-there is another interpenetrating universe not governed by the same physics. In such a universe according to you gravity can fling things outward without any additional force (catapult, arm, kick, expectorate explosion or badminton racket)

            Where a dirty burn of hydrocarbons can melt steel. Steel by the way is a very efficient conductor of heat so when it heats up it conducts the heat along itself much like a frying pan eventually conducts the heat into its handle. Of  course in this universe the frying pan does not melt being exposed to the controlled burn of the gas stove which is over 1000 degrees F. whereas in your universe you assure me it is perfectly normal for 100,000 tons of steel to completely melt and all the concrete to burst into fine powder after 50 minutes of hydrocarbon fed fire. I wonder that you sleep at night living in such a dangerous universe!
            In my poor universe the buildings fell at free-fall speed-9 & 10 seconds each-that is 10 floors per second. Perhaps in your universe they took a lot longer or so it seems. The Columbia University seismograph recorded the events as a 2 and a 2.5 EQ. It too and all the timing involved are matters of public record and can be found.
            The explosions caused by the kerosene for Tower 2 was for the most part outside the building. There was very little left to ‘seep in between the floors as he Official history puts it and attack the unprotected steel. Steel does not burn very well which is why it is used. In fact steel, glass and concrete are very poor sources of fuel for a fire.  But maybe in your universe they burn better than wood which is what I heat with all winter-in my non-melting steel stove!Oh yeah -in 1975 the North Tower had a fire which burned for 3 hours over several floors-and it did not fall down then. As the Daleks (not in my universe) are want to say ‘explain, explain, explain’
            Patricia Cornwall, writing in her book “Jack The Ripper, Case Closed’ on page 20 quotes ex-FBI profiler Ed Sulzbach who says “There really aren’t many coincidences in life. and to call coincidence after coincidence after coincidence a coincidence is just plain stupid.” Up to 9/11/01 no steel framed building had collapsed from fire. On 9/11 three of them did or so we are told. After then, to date and despite some spectacular fires like the  Windsor Madrid building that burned for 20 hours in 05, none have. “‘What are the odds, Mr. Spock; what is the probability, Mr. Data?”
            Did I mention how in my universe the BBC announced that WTC7 (The Salomon Brothers Building as they called it) had just collapsed-20 minutes before it actually did? That is a matter of public record as well. Perhaps you should stay in your universe.Despite the capriciousness of the physics, it is probably safer for you.

          • Albury Smith

            You’ve managed to regurgitate practically every 9/11 troofer lie that’s ever been dreamed up, even after the facts have been pointed out to you, and we obviously don’t live in the same universe. In mine the severity of building fires is better judged by looking at the areas where the fires actually were, not 3 stories below or on opposite sides of 208′ square buildings. GWB coreboard is not “heavily reinforced” against 767s going 400+ mph, and cores aren’t too “hermetically sealed” after speeding 140-ton airliners get through with them. Claiming that the tower fires were not hot enough to do what it’s very clear from videos that they actually did is really asinine.
            In my universe the 4 corner columns in each WTC tower’s core and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were W14 X 730s. These WFs have 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, 215 sq in cross-sectional areas, weigh 730# per lineal foot, and their overall dimensions are ~22-1/2″ X ~18″. Please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to demonstrate for us on video how they’re secretly cut with explosives in NYC. You’ll have as much luck with that as with finding FDNY eyewitnesses or LDEO scientists who agree with you, regardless of how much you like to misrepresent their statements and findings.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Yes but the planes only hit in one spot each. the cores wee ‘sealed’ from chimney effect in each of three ‘sections’ that made up the entire building. The rest of the buildings below the area where the planes hit remained intact until they were exploded -or until the concrete (in your universe) decided to disintegrate all by itself.

            There were 47 steel box girder core columns and 237 steel columns around the outside,. the strength of the building was redundant-it could take more than one plane crash-it was defsigned to handle plane crashes.

            and WTC7 was NOT hit by a plane. It suffered a few scattered fires. It was not a ‘blazing torch’ as erroneously reported later. It fell down in 6 seconds. Suicide?
            I look at the pictures. I see small fires. Some floors are endangered but hardly enough heat to melt the entire building of 100,000 tons of steel. But that is my universe. In your universe be careful with your lighter-you might melt your car!

          • Albury Smith

            rpt: The 4 corner columns in each WTC tower’s core and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were W14 X 730s. These WFs have 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, 215 sq in cross-sectional areas, weigh 730# per lineal foot, and their overall dimensions are ~22-1/2″ X ~18″. Please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to demonstrate for us on video how they’re secretly cut with explosives in NYC.

          • Albury Smith

            Here’s a photo of that “600,000 lb. piece of WTC facade”:
            http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/WFC3_close.jpg
            Regardless of the very obvious error on the FEMA web site, that broken perimeter column tree weighed less than most SUVs and originated from ~1200′ up, so the distance it traveled to hit WFC 3 is hardly all that suspicious considering the fact that the upper portion of the North Tower weighed ~60,000 TONS and crashed into the intact structure below from a story height or more.
            Real controlled demolitions in my universe use explosives to cut steel columns; in yours the explosives fling the columns a few hundred feet without leaving any cutter charge signatures on the ends. Your imaginary and silent explosives obviously weren’t planted on the columns themselves:
            http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/wtc/select/clifton/images/image008.gif
            so they must’ve been hidden in desks or something.

          • MaatMenNefer

            If you look at the remaining core columns in photos of Ground Zero, you can clearly see that angled cut with the remains of molten metal on the end which was made by the shaped charges and the thermate that was used to blow the core. It was neither silent nor hidden.

          • Albury Smith

            Angled cuts with gray slag around them are only made with oxyacetylene or other gas cutting torches; incendiaries leave a big amorphous yellowish mess and explosives would not have left any loose material near the cut. The tower collapses started 1000′ and 1200′ higher than that, so what on earth did a cut below grade DO? Was everyone working at GZ for ~8 months, including SEAoNY, PANYNJ, NSF, ASCE, FEMA BPAT and other engineers, Local 40 and 361 ironworkers, and experienced laborers working for demolition contractors, all blind and stupid, or “in on it”?

          • MaatMenNefer

            Explosives might have left traces of melted metal around the cut if thermate, the patented military version of thermite, was used. Thermate also leave sulfur traces since it is what is added by military to make steel weaken faster. Les Robertson reported molten metal beneath the rubble 3 weeks after 9/11. The boots of the workers melted while working on the pile. There was a lot of residual heat for which kerosene cannot account.
            As to why people did not notice the cuts, perhaps not everybody knew what they were seeing. The angled cuts are visible in beams sticking out above the rubble in pictures of Ground Zero. the interesting thing about the rubble was there was no in between; it was either steel remains or just powder. There were not pieces of any recognizable office furniture, computers , just dust and steel. The other WTC buildings, although very heavily damaged were still standing and had to be demolished in the usual way.

          • alburyt

            Explosives blow away any trace of friable material like slag, which can be scraped off steel with a toothpick in many cases. NO explosive or incendiary burns long enough to account for the debris fire temperatures weeks and even months after 9/11, and Local 40 and 361 ironworkers and SEAoNY, PANYNJ, FEMA BPAT, NSF, and other engineers “knew what they were seeing,” as would anyone pulling suspiciously-cut steel out of the debris. Collapse and debris fire phenomena are not evidence of your imaginary C/Ds – there isn’t any.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Local iron workers said on tape that they were bringing up molten metal, that it was flowing like it was in a foundry or like it was lava. What accounts for that molten metal, noted by many people including Roberston. Where is it explained in the ‘Official State History’? What force pulverized the concrete and all the contents of the buildings, including 1,100 human bodies, into dust so small it can be inhaled? What force threw hundreds of centimeter long human bone fragments onto the roof of the Deutsch Bank building? If everything was so innocent, why did Giuliani have all the trucks GPS equiped and send them in convoys to get rid of the steel before most of it could be examined or tested? What fused concrete with steel in the thing called ‘the meteorite’? There was some force more powerful than a kerosene explosion and gravity.

          • alburyt

            Molten metal in debris fires has never been observed months after a real C/D, and explosives don’t cause it, so why would debris fire phenomena be so suspicious to you? It was almost definitely not steel, and lead and aluminum were in abundance in all 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises. No one qualitatively analyzed the metal, and no one who reported it is a troofer. Many commercial trucks are GPS equipped, and there were numerous engineers on site for the entire 8 months of cleanup. If any of them had seen a suspiciously-cut piece of structural steel, I’m sure it would have been mentioned in their reports. Local 40 and 361 ironworkers handle steel every day, and would also have been very interested in any suspicious anomalies. You’re not giving the GZ work force very much credit.
            You also seem unaware of the enormous KE of collapsing ~500,000-ton buildings that were more than 1/4 mile high. Explosives in a real C/D only trigger the collapse; they don’t account for any of the phenomena described by eyewitnesses and misrepresented by your 9/11 “truth movement.”

          • MaatMenNefer

            Exactly-explosions in a real C/D only trigger collapse-what happened at WTC was unprecedented in terms of C/D. And the molten metal was noticed by lots of iron workers and others. The heat was registered from space with spectrographic photos showing the residual heat which was 1300 F-a far higher heat than anything residual kerosene, the only admitted heat source, could have registered. There are lots of anomalies that are unexplained. Including where most of the mass of the building and furnishings went and what happened to the bodies. Usually bodies are crushed in the debris. They don’t usually ‘vaporize’ but 1,100 bodies or their recognizable parts were just gone. To reduce the buildings and their components including all furnishings to powder only 100 microns thick takes enormous energy, far more than what the Official History will account for. Yes, trucks do have GPS but the inference is Guiliani wanted to be sure that no truck would go astray and allow its contents to be analyzed. And very little of the steel was analyzed! I doubt KE can render solid objects into undifferentiated powder just by itself alone. Esplosions were heard by eyewitnesses, by firefighters, recorded on cameras and also heard on the news reports in the background as events unfolded; you can hear them yourself on tape and on news recorded that day.

            Furthermore there are all sorts of other anomalies that can not be explained in the Official History. the plane at the Pentagon. No wreckage, no bodies on site, no luggage, seats, engines or any other things.  Hani Hanjour was not even qualified to rent a Cessna on his own. He tried at Freeway Airport and did not pass the check-out required for their insurance.Then to think he could have flown that plane as he did? Impossible! Maj. general Albert Stubblebine has come out publicly and said ‘Where’s the plane?” and he used to analyze recon photos of Russian equipment for military security. He is one of the experts who questions this part of the ‘Official State History’ As a military man and a West Point graduate class of ’52 his testimony is certainly worth considering!
            There are just too many things that don’t add up to accept the ‘Official State History’ and when you think what has become of our foreign policy, or economy, so many factors of our national life, the questions become most important to answer. Not so much for ourselves, but for future generations.

            But then it has been 50 years and the ‘Official State History’ still upholds the ‘magic bullet’ theory.  I don’t have much hope for truth in my life time.

          • alburyt

            The USGS temps of less than 1400F are entirely consistent with debris fires consuming normal building contents, and the fires persisted for months. Can you name even one ironworker, firefighter, or other GZ worker or witness who found the debris fires suspicious after the burning buildings collapsed? Once again, what explosives or incendiaries burn for months, and what known C/Ds have produced these temperatures in their debris?
            No-planers are a waste of time, but read and learn:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
            and:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2
            Hani Hanjour didn’t train to fly Cessnas; he was issued a commercial pilot certificate by the FAA in 1999 for his training in Boeing simulators. It is simply not that difficult for someone who has that very basic understanding of the controls of a 757 to steer it into a huge target in perfect weather conditions after someone else has handled the takeoff and gotten it to cruising altitude.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Since the ‘Official State History’ depends on certain things being iommitted, I am sure that the average worker was never consulted on what he experienced. There was testimony by workers in the Fox TV special ‘Metal of Honor’ but since it mentioned the fires that still burned until Dec. 19, it was never, to my knowledge, rebroadcast again. I don’t know if thermate (the military version of thermite-it has sulphur for extra rapidity and easier cutting power) will continue to burn for long periods of time-they said there were like rivers of iron ‘l9ike a foundry’ or ‘lava’ at Ground Zero. I have the people somewhere on DVD testifying-don;’t know their names off-hand.
            Yes, Hanjour did have pilots’ papers form some school in AZ but actually flying a big jet is different from training on a simulator alone because you are dealing with mass-the considerable mass of the plane-a 757 is 300,000 lbs fully loaded-no mass in a simulator- and it behaves differently. Also the Pentagon was very low, only 75 feet or less high-the route taken was a maze of obstacles-light poles, a small hill, etc. Not to mention the cockpit is configured in such a way that looking out and down (especially at 400+MPH) is not really an option. Add to that the fact that all the flight controllers at Dulles though it was a military jet due to the flight path in that tight downward turn. Russ Wittenberg, a former military pilot who also flew Boeings said that the plane was not designed for those kinds of high speed maneuvers (pulling 5 G’s was one phrase he used) and that such a Boeing would simply ‘fall out of the sky’. Not to mention ‘ground effect’ which at the very least would have wrecked the lawn with turbulence from the engines and would have crashed the plane into the lawn because one cannot fly a large plane that low to the ground for that length of time and distance without either crashing or having to gain altitude. And that is not considering what an impact with the light poles would do!
            Watch the movie ‘2012’-Hollywood loves the theory that anyone with a few lessons can fly big planes in unorthodox situations. In my world that does not happen.

          • alburyt

            Were you consulted on what you think they experienced, or did you just volunteer it on your own? Debris fire phenomena long after 9/11 are not evidence of explosives or incendiaries; they simply don’t produce heat for that long.

            Since facts and evidence don’t register with you, this is probably a waste of time posting:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
            &:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

          • MaatMenNefer

            Exactly-‘they simply don’t produce heat for that long’-the heat produced is documented-Les Robertson mentioned it 3 weeks after 9/11; construction workers on Ground Zero noticed it until Dec. 19 (again-try to track down the special from Fox ‘Metal of Honor’ where it is mentioned by the workers.) Being noticed is not the same thing as being publicized and this fact was not publicized. I am aware of this material through source material on DVDs which do feature the actual workers talking about it.
            Again-we don’t know what caused/formed this residual heat. It is just another mystery about the collapse.

          • alburyt

            Debris fires at GZ burned for ~100 days after BURNING BUILDINGS COLLAPSED. The USGS recorded temperatures of nearly 1400F, nowhere near hot enough to melt steel. Did you ever hear any reports of molten lead or aluminum? The molten “steel” was often reported dripping or running off recognizable steel shapes, so what does that suggest to you? There was plenty of lead and aluminum in all 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises.
            Robertson’s not a troofer, and the FDNY and others at GZ do not find the debris fires suspicious, just tough to extinguish.

          • MaatMenNefer

            the fact that there were such high temperatures so long after the initial collpases certainly indicates something hotter than kerosene was at work. The mystery is ‘what.’ I don’t know what is was but it was not kerosene.  And the quote about the molten metal was from construction workers at GZ.  Ditto on the rubber boots melting after a few hours of working there. That kind of residual heat does not go with the ‘Offiical State History’ of 9/11.

          • alburyt

            It’s entirely consistent with debris fires burning normal office building combustibles. What’s the big deal about melting some rubber boots? Explosives and incendiaries are not a source of heat months after a building collapse, or even minutes after one.

          • MaatMenNefer

            No it is not. Fire boots are not the same as your ordinary boots. Such heat remaining after a kerosene fire of small magnitude (when weighed against the huge pulverized mass of the building) sn not consistent with normal fire behavior involving hydrocarbons.
            BTW, Guliani’s own book tells that  he prohibited people from entering, investigating or even taking photos of G/Z. The BPAT team got only 149 samples  from the collapse.

          • alburyt

            You can’t secure a site like that, and ~40,000 different people worked there at one time or another for ~8 months. If the debris fires were really “not consistent with normal fire behavior involving hydrocarbons,” why would we need a 9/11 “truth movement” to tell us that?
            Explosives and incendiaries do not produce heat for more than a short period of time, so linking them to debris fires that lasted for 100 days or more doesn’t even make sense.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Exactly! But Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition remarked on the fact of molten metal, in an article in the NY Times about there still being molten metal in the foundations of the buildings in Oct. He is a man who would certainly know what he was seeing. So yeah-what was burning if it wasn’t hydrocarbons? Thermate? Something even more exotic?
            Since the ‘Official State History’ hardly improved on Fox News ‘man on the street’ analysis “And then I watched both buildings collapse, mostly due to structural failure because the fires were just too intense” we do need 9/11 Truth. Basically the ‘Official State History’ is  OBL, in a cave, with a laptop and pre-paid cell phones (can you hear me now?) planned and coordinated all this from afar, just like magic or gravity (action from a distance) and over-rode the laws of physics (at least the ones on the planet where I live) and voila! ‘buildings go boom!’
            It is an explanation worthy of a two year old but hardly satisfies a more serious investigator. But then I have never been content, after I reached maturity, to accept things like magic bullets or self-pulverizing concrete and office furnishings and buildings that simply collapse like WTC7.

          • alburyt

            Seriously investigate this:

            That’s what a real explosive demolition sounds like, not an imaginary one.
            The US should’ve attacked bin Laden and AQ with troops after the suicide bombing of the USS Cole in 2000, but President Bush’s goofy kid totally ignored it until 9/11 woke him up. Whether you think OBL lived in a cave and used prepaid cell phones or not, he planned and financed the 1998 suicide bombings of 2 US embassies, the suicide attack on the Cole, and the 9/11 suicide attacks in the US. He also wrote 2 fatwas and gave ABC’s John Miller an interview to explain why he wanted to murder Americans for Allah, or whatever. 9/11 hasn’t been denied by him or AQ in more than a decade, and they have plenty of access to the world’s media, so why do you think they need you to defend them?

          • MaatMenNefer

            Actually although the FBI did indite him in the embassy and Cole bombings, it has not done so on 9/11. You can check it out. No direct evidence-unless you want to rely on evidence obtained through torture  such as was given by KSM.. If presented with waterboarding, I would claim 9/11 and the Lusitania.
            The explosions were recorded, testified to, seen. To say they weren’t is ridiculous in the face of it; you can get the news tapes-all the major outlets-that record them as they happened.
            And he did deny 9./11. Once in a Pakistani publication and once it was reported by Al Hareetz in Isreal. The tape that shows a ‘bin Laden’ claiming responsibility has a lot of things wrong with it; foremost the ‘bin Laden’ does not truly resemble the ‘accepted’ bin Laden image. Younger, fatter, darker and right handed than the older, thinner, lighter and definitely left handed OBL!
            In short, I do not defend them since I do not approve of terror. However, given the known ties with CIA, the inability of the patsies to fly the planes (particularly the fabulous plane Pentagon story) and the fact that several of the so called hijackers are alive and well in the Middle East, I find the whole story of 9/11-the ‘Official State History’ to be a sacred myth used to manipulate the public to act against their own interest and like lemmings charge into wars that will utterly destroy their and their children’s chance of a good and peaceful life.

          • alburyt

            Osama bin Laden was already on the FBI’s Most Wanted List for the 1998 suicide bombings of 2 US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and formal grand jury indictments require the disclosure of intelligence information and sources that was not worth the cost of publicly revealing in a court hearing. The evidence against AQ for 9/11 is overwhelming:

            http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-terrorist-threat-confronting-the-united-states

            and regardless of one self-preservation denial while still vulnerable to US troops and air strikes in Afghanistan shortly after his plan succeeded, neither OBL nor any other al Qaeda figure has denied responsibility for the 9/11 suicide attacks in more than a decade.
            KSM is proud of his role in the 9/11 “Planes Operation,” and his nephew Ramzi Yousef very defiantly claimed responsibility for the 1993 North Tower bombing at his sentencing hearing, saying that he’d gladly murder more Americans if he had the chance. The waterboarding was not to get his loving uncle’s confession for planning 9/11 with him and others, but to get information that might have been helpful in locating and exterminating his pals.
            I’ve never said that explosions weren’t heard in the burning WTC buildings on 9/11, and many FDNY and other witnesses provided statements about them. None of them claimed to have heard DEMOLITION explosIVES and linked them to a hi-rise collapse, and few to no FDNY are in your 9/11 “truth movement.” Go figure…

          • MaatMenNefer

            If the explosions weren’t demolition charges-what were they?

            OBL is dead-without testifying about how he brought off 9/11-how convenient.
            And he did-or someone did-testify in a press article within days of attacks -that he did not do it.
            Evidence is usually something independent of hearsay-it usually has a seperate existence from words. There is no evidence of how he alledgedly coordinated all this from his cave in Afghanistan.Somehow I don’t think there is very good wireless in Afghanistan for using lap tops or mobile phones.OTOH there is evidence that the patsies could not fly well; that ISI of Pakistan transfered $100,000 to Mohamad Atta-never investigated;that a huge number of ‘puts’ agaisnt the stock of the airlines involved were place in the days before 9/11-and over $2 million never claimed; that WTC 7 fell down for no good reason; that there is a huge crater where WTC 6 was, never investigated; that OBL was supported by CIA during Afghanistan War against Russians.
            Anybody can say anything but proof is needed. Proof from other sources. No Arab names on the flight manifests. No Arab DNA in the recovered bodies. The so-called Pentagon plane no only NOT being able to do the flying ascribed to it-not designed for high speed maneuvers for one thing-and no evidence of the plane itself after impact. The country was promised a ‘White Paper’ on OBL involvement by Colin Powell-never happened-why?
            It’s a lot like the ‘magic bullet’- an interesting story that does not fit the facts of ballistics and then the ‘proof’ itself-a pristine bullet found under a stretcher at Parkland Hospital. No chain of evidence-no forensic evidence that the bullet was ever fired-no bone, no blood, no impact loss.
            When your livelihood depends on shutting up, most people do so.  There are enough fire fighters on record testifying to explosions to cast doubt on ‘no explosions’ and of course the ‘Official State History’ explanation itself does not stand up the the physics of my universe. Unfortunately in my universe, state organs like the FBI often lie.
            As for our armed forces, it is even worse to have them kill and die for a lie. If you don’t believe this can happen, I direct you to the history of Viet Nam War, the  Gulf of Tonkin ‘incident’ which was wholly fabricated and the resulting deaths of 58,000 American troops, and over 2 million Viet Namese. Which does not include those whose wounds resulted in mental illness and homelessness and those who experienced birth defects due to Agent Orange both in Viet Nam and here at home when returning soldiers had children.
            Again, the word I live in is cruel and deals in deception and murder far more than in truth and altruism.

          • alburyt

            Mark Loizeaux is not a troofer. C/Ds don’t leave molten metal behind; long-burning debris fires after burning buildings collapse do. Where OBL was on 9/11 and what he communicated with has nothing to do with the 19 hijackers he financed, or the suicide operation he helped to plan. No laws of physics were defied by the WTC’s fire-induced collapses. You’re peddling snake oil.

          • MaatMenNefer

            Exactly; Loizeaux could be called an informed witness and yes, conventional demolition do not leave things burning for long periods of time. However, furniture, carpets, desks, chair burn out fairly quickly; they do not burn for a long time and certainly can’t keep metal molten. Nevertheless, the molten metal is still there, weeks later. So the explanation is what?
            You accept on the faith in the myth that somehow OBL did all this. Did you net see that there is a trace of the money, $100,000 sent  from General of ISS(Pakistani intelligence) to Mohamad Atta, who spoke of it belonging to the ‘Family’ rather than ‘Al Qeada’ and that same Pakistani general was in DC on 9/11 and yet Nobody ever investigated who told the guy to send it or where it came from? Does that not strike you as exceeding strange, since you are talking about OBL and the financing of 9/11? BTW, did you know that OBL’s half-brother Selim was an investor in G W Bush’s petoleum company Arbusto? Coincidence after coincidence after coincidence…
            On my planet, when things fall down, they don’t explode outward. They just drop. You can see outward ejections of material from the WTC on any video you care to view.
            Not snake oil; the Red pill!

          • alburyt

            Drop a watermelon on the floor from a story height on your planet and let me know whether any of it scatters sideways. Tell the FDNY how long debris fires “really” should burn while consuming office furnishings and contents. You don’t want Loizeaux as an informed witness for the 9/11 “truth movement.”
            The bin Laden family is not al Qaeda; Osama was, and was expatriated by the Saudi government in the ’90s. Many wealthy Saudis have invested in all sorts of American ventures. Hardly a coincidence…

          • MaatMenNefer

            When the watermelon drops it does not scatter pieces of itself sideways while Falling which manifestly happened with the WTC -pieces are blown outwards! Also concrete does not pulverize into dust when it is dropped. It breaks into chunks , not breathable dust-unless there are explosives involved.
            The Bush family seems to know all sorts: Neil Bush, son of then VP HW Bush and brother to ‘W’ Bush was supposed to dine with the brother of Reagan ‘s assassin (attempted ) that very same night back in March of 81…coincidence after coincidence after coincidence….

          • alburyt

            The upper portions of the towers collided with intact structure in much the same way as a watermelon hitting the floor, and no secret explosives propel watermelon debris outward. Despite some exceptionally stupid comments by Box Boy, most of the WTC dust was from GWB, ceiling tile, and SFRM, not the floor slabs, which were crushed in the collapses and mostly hauled from the site in pieces. If you think they were secretly turned to dust by explosives, try it on some old sidewalks or something. Real C/Ds cut columns; there’s no reason to target the slabs, and turning them to fine dust with explosives is impossible without leveling Manhattan in the process.
            It’s not a coincidence that you fall for every tinfoil hat conspiracy rumor out there. I’m sure you’ve already solved the Boston bombing too.

          • MaatMenNefer

            The buildings fell symmetrically-a physical impossibility in this world since they are falling against the mass of the structure below; the floors did not ‘pancake’ smashing each one below it-that would take longer than the recorded 10 seconds, and thousands of connections, steel bolts, trusses, the core columns, the outside columns would have all had to fail simultaneously. And even if all this could have happened, it would not have pulverized the concrete. The volume of concrete spewed by the dust clouds was huge-more energy used there than gravity produced.
            It does not happen.Not in the world I live in.

            PS tin foil does not stop radio waves. Like the NSA, you need a copper lined hat: check out NSA building-all shielded by copper.

          • alburyt

            You need to take a basic physics course instead of studying Box Boy’s crap.

          • MaatMenNefer

            If you look at the remaining core columns in photos of Ground Zero, you can clearly see that angled cut with the remains of molten metal on the end which was made by the shaped charges and the thermate that was used to blow the core. It was neither silent nor hidden.

        • Albury Smith

          Here’s the south wall of the North Tower after impact:

          http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg

          East wall of the South Tower:

          https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/ST1.jpg

          Both planes pushed most of the combustibles away from the impact sides, and the major fires, fueled by them and the planes’ own combustibles, wound up on the opposite sides. Since UA 175 hit on more of an angle than AA 11, the fires were on the opposite and one adjacent side. It’s extremely dishonest to cite the very accurate account from Chief Palmer in a stairwell 3 stories below the impact level as evidence that the fires in the South Tower were minor.
          Don’t buy the bridge; send Box Boy a big donation instead.

          • MaatMenNefer

            So all that black smoke has no meaning? Because when there is a lot of black smoke the fires are burning at lower temperatures. And lower temperatures and open air dirty burns-as that is-can’t melt steel. Or why did we need all those blast furnaces?
            Don’t forget that at least 7 of the so-called hijackers turned up alive and well. Or maybe they used magick? Certainly it was magick that fit that entire Boeing airplane-44 feet tall tail assembly plus 125 ft wingspan into that small hole. Because before the facade collapsed that is what there was – a small hole 15 meters which indicates a cruise missile rather than a Boeing airplane.
            And then there is the Penta-lawn. Perfect. Undamaged. Wow-where can I get some of that grass?
            And then all the marble knocked off the walls of the lobby of the North Tower and all the glass blown out. And William Rodriguez who reported “An explosion so hard it pushed us upward.”  in the basement. Before the plane struck the tower. And various reports of multiple explosions-heard and recorded.
            Do you really think you can melt 100,000 tons of steel-and blow it across the street to lodge in the facades of building of Fezzy Street with kerosene? Or produce a pyroclastic flow?  Or bring down 110 stories at free-fall speed? And what about Bldg. 7-did it just commit suicide because its freinds were gone? So convenient too since all the records of the World Com and Enron financial frauds that were stored there by the SEC were also destroyed.
            Sorry-I still believe in the laws of physics as demonstrated on this plane of existence.

      • mtj3134

        Have to correct you, but firefighters say there heard explosions, as did some of the camera crews.. Odd that we never see those early first hour shots, on national tv anymore… Very odd. Guess we are just too emotionally weak to deal with it ?

        • alburyt

          Not one of the FDNY firefighters who’ve been exploited and quote mined by the 9/11 “truth movement” for use of the word “explosion” claimed to have heard DEMOLITION explosIVES, and linked the loud bangs in the fires to a WTC building collapse. Few to no FDNY are troofers.

          Here’s what real demolition explosives sound like:

          No one in Dallas/Ft. Worth needed people within a block or 2 of that building to tell them that explosives went off; they were undoubtedly heard ~10 miles away.

      • Stewland

        Wrong again. Thermites were found among the wreckage.

        • Albury Smith

          Wrong. Some 9/11 conspiracy crackpots found rust, aluminum, sulfur, etc. in some WTC dust samples and claimed that it “reminded” them of thermitic material, although they failed to provide an exemplar of any thermitic material for comparison. Their asinine paper reminded the editor-in-chief to quit her position in disgust:

          http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/04/bentham-editor-resigns-over-steven.html

    • mariposa2014

      An important fact is missing in people’s understanding of what the destruction of the towers was really about. I don’t think people can grasp that this was just a false flag terrorist attack, and that’s because it wasn’t. If people knew that they wanted to demolish the towers for years but couldn’t get the go-ahead because of the health consequences for the residents of New York. The towers needed extensive renovations and was full of asbestos and was too expensive and toxic to do this and they couldn’t get permission to demolish it from the authorities. A lot of companies had already moved out of the towers. There was also a lot of work being done on the buildings in the months and weeks leading up to that day. This was a way to kill two birds with one stone. Bring down the towers which they couldn’t get permission any other way and provide a false flag terrorist attack to justify all their wars. If people could get these facts out then that whole day would make more sense to people, I believe. This is the missing piece of the puzzle that many people don’t know or even have a clue about. It needs to be more widely known.

      • Albury Smith

        The building code change eliminating asbestos took effect during tower construction, so there was no asbestos problem at all in the South Tower, and only the bottom 38 floors of the North Tower had any, most of which had been abated well before Silverstein Properties won the bid for them. Occupancy rates in the WTC towers in 2001 were in the mid-90% range and going up, so companies were moving in, not out. The PANYNJ owned them, and catastrophic multibillion-dollar “false flag terrorist attack[s]” by port authorities or lessees are even more of a stretch than those by evil gubmints.
        Considering the fact that al Qaeda clearly explained why they wanted to murder Americans in 2 separate fatwas and the John Miller ABC interview in the ’90s, committed 2 other suicide attacks on US citizens and interests in 1998 and 2000, and admitted responsibility for 9/11, bin Laden and his thugs had much more to do with US foreign policy post-9/11 than you’re giving them credit for.
        If you had facts, you might actually “make more sense to people.”

        • Trutherbetterthanaliar

          Here are “the facts” this might make things clearer to you. If you even watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsDtvu2uTuA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

          • alburyt

            9/11 was an al Qaeda suicide attack that’s gone undenied by AQ for more than a decade. Two fatwas (1996 and ’98) and the 1998 John Miller interview with OBL clearly explain the motive. Hijacking and crashing airliners required no inside help in 2001, and there were no explosives involved in the fire-induced WTC collapses. If you think it’s even remotely possible to sever W14 X 730 columns like the 11 in WTC 7’s core and the corners of each tower’s core secretly with explosives, let’s see it done on video with sound. They have 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections, so bring plenty of explosives and get back a half mile or so. If Box Boy and his “experts” ever HAD TO do it, we’d never hear another peep out of them.
            Secret explosive demolitions in NYC are an absurdity, and no WTC collapse had the slightest effect on post-9/11 foreign policy. Your video starts out with a segment on Wall Street crooks and their shenanigans, and that topic is covered much better in the “Inside Job” documentary film.

          • mtj3134

            Whatever your comments. there is no way that two 1000′ tall buildings will fall in their own footprints, without help. And building 7, was not hit, yet still fell in its own footprint, in freefall, on camera But, you know best lol

          • alburyt

            767 crashes and massive fires helped a lot in the tower collapses, and a broken main to the sprinkler risers, plus exceptionally long interior spans, asymmetry in the col. 79 area, and simple gravity connections helped in WTC 7. The FDNY set up a ~600′ safety perimeter around WTC 7 in mid-afternoon, so were they in on the plot too?
            Do you even have a plausible and coherent motive for the impossibilities you’re alleging? A perp? The owner and his 12 insurance companies all took a huge financial hit on 9/11, and US foreign policy was set as soon as UA 175 hit the South tower, if not minutes before. A 5:21 PM collapse that few even know about had no effect on it whatsoever, nor did the other 2. At least 4 of the companies who paid Silverstein Properties a total of $4.68 BILLION are foreign-based, so were they all just feeling generous?

          • Stewland

            You are wrong,very wrong. The truth will prevail. Silverstein was an insider with connections to Cheney. He may not live to see justice prevail but in the next lifetime he will experience the very things he has caused others to experience.

          • Albury Smith

            Rpt: Please urge Box Boy* and his “experts” to demonstrate for you on video with audio how explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:

            http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png&imgrefurl=http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/sustainability8.html&h=478&w=638&sz=404&tbnid=q-S41Ix2mT4HeM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__UlCatIoHNuaIBUbQaF2PuEchSxU=&docid=adi9gO1tvsGG9M&sa=X&ei=FIbgUaLxFOr54APlsYHABA&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAw&dur=135

            If they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.

            *Box Boy’s ONLY 9/11 “research”:

          • alburyt

            I’ve already watched it and addressed those alleged “facts” on this forum. If it makes you feel better to believe that an al Qaeda suicide attack was “really” done by your imaginary perps, knock yourself out.

      • Metalvet

        Dont forget the insurance policy the owner had on the twin towers that he up’ed prior to 9/11

        • Albury Smith

          The owner of the twin towers was the PANYNJ.

    • kayla smith

      It was LBJ/Federal Reserve Board. 9-11 occured on a day that Alan Greenspan was to announce NESARA. By hitting the Towers and thePentagon it destroyed the database with the information and it shut down the central banking system and by that occurring NESARA couldn’t be effective but of course there was back up disks and so now NESARA can go into effect What it will mandate is the following: Wipes out all consumer debt including mortgage credit card car loan student loans and wipes out the Federal Reserve Board IRS and income taxes as we have known it.

      • alburyt

        9/11 was another al Qaeda suicide attack on the US. The motive was explained in a fatwa in 1996, another one in 1998, and the John Miller ABC interview with Osama bin Laden in 1998. It was preceded by 2 suicide attacks on US embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and the suicide attack on the USS Cole in Aden Harbor in 2000.
        Flying airliners into buildings does not destroy electronic files stored in networks, and al Qaeda terrorists were not targeting files; they were trying to murder as many Americans as possible.

    • James Ledger

      I agree.

    • Kevin White

      There you have it ladies and gentlemen !… Oh, and a few vegetables !

  • http://www.facebook.com/dirint Eric Babcock

    Yeah… Because when a plane crashes after being shot down, it looks like a
    trashbag was dumped in the hole left over from a dug out shitter.

    http://chanarchive.org/content/1_b/354900869/1316796524202.jpg

  • http://twitter.com/MayBRayne Juicy Leg

    Fvck Dick Cheneuy, and fvckGeorge Bvsh, and Donald Rumsfeld, and Barry Soetoro (oops, Barack Soetoro Dunham Obama)

  • Keng Tan

    I hate Bush for his freedom when he should be in jail for crimes against humanity.
    The smoking gun he and Cheney left behind was the video of the collapse of the WTC7 , a
    steel reinforced building which fell into a heap of dust in less than 6
    seconds when it was not hit by an airliner. When will America wake up
    and haul the two to court to face justice?

    • Albury Smith

      How do we know
      Bush wasn’t behind September 11th? Because it worked. AND, it involved:
      PLANNING. – Bill Maher on Real Time in 2008

  • moi

    Go Fuck Yourself Mr. Cheney

  • David Sketchley

    I think everyone understands that for 8 years Bush wasn’t President it was Cheney running things. It’s pretty obvious. So when is Dick Cheney going to be taken out and shot at dawn for his multiple crimes against humanity? Or better still hung from a tree in public. Just like you used to do in cowboy days.

  • Afshin Nejat

    Anyone who waited for something like this to smell a rat is an idiot and is complicit in the entire affair. They may as well wait until everyone involved in any given crime, from petty thief all the way to the Devil himself, signs a full confession. Thanks for being such awesomely truth-hungry investigators on behalf of justice, oh glorious fellow Americans. Not.

  • Mark of the Wild West

    For the government to admit 9/11 was an inside job would be counter to the nature of the government. It”s just not going happen even with the mountain of credible evidence found by independent researchers over the last decade.

    So much money is involved in the “war on terror”, truth will never emerge from the corporate controlled mass media… The war on terror has ultimately become the war on American citizens and their once great freedoms. Thus is the nature of the Zionist’s NWO; total and merciless control. Cheney played his part and has no shame!

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.royal1 John Royal

    Just think he won’t be prosecuted for it or ordered to pay restitution

  • http://www.facebook.com/dennis.boylon Dennis Boylon

    Cheney was worth a million maybe two million dollars when as Secretary of Defense he cut roles traditionally done by the military and gave the contracts to Halliburton. This trained lawyer then became the CEO of Halliburton and now is worth near 100 million dollars. Probably one of the biggest revolving door payouts in the history of government.

  • anarchyst

    If it ever were revealed that Israel and their mossad were implicated in the 9-11 Twin Towers collapse, that would mean the end of Israel. Of course, Israel was involved, starting with the Israeli “art students” and the Israeli front moving company videotaping the destruction of the Towers while quoting that it was “our problem” now. The Israeli actions were all put under national security” protection.
    Anybody smell a rat??
    Let’s not forget about WTC-7 which “just happened to be scheduled for demolition” on that very day. . .

  • Nunya Goddam-Bizness

    And WHY isn’t Cheney locked up behind bars?

    WHY?

    ANSWER: The U.S. Justice system IS A JOKE.

    • ShaneJohns

      So long as it is considered a foreign attack on the USA (ie. not an ‘inside job’ involving Cheney), there’s not much the US Justice system CAN do. When it comes to defending the country, the Executive has near god-like power, and is not really accountable to anyone other than the Congress which could, presumably, impeach.

    • Kevin White

      The real answer is, “His time is soon coming” as karma is a real MF….. DICK, I wanna see you all over the 11:00 NOOSE…. Same as Saddam, You sir are NO F**KING different and deserve the very same exit !………. So just HANG tight DICK !

      • Stewland

        It may be that Cheney reincarnates and experiences the very things he caused others to experience. It may take 100 or lifetimes to balance the scales of justice. Cheney can’t escape the consequences of his choices.

  • disqus_eEbPU3IGDU

    A reassessment of 9/11 is long overdue. I am not sure what happened on 9/11, but it is certain that the official version is wrong and that Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with it. It is also certain that what happened was not what the conspirators planned. We know this because there were so many loose ends and smoking guns that the original conspirators, whoever they were, could not have planned it that way. Admittedly the attacks succeeded in some ways, but they failed in other ways. All this gives me great confidence that the whole truth will eventually come out, and it may not be that long before it does.

  • Stanley Crawford

    Buckshot Dick is one of the primary supporters of the PNAC agenda. If the Reagan administration had been strung up for its Treason fomenting Iran-Contra weapons for cocaine scandal (Wehrmacht soldiers were hung for lesser offenses), then the U.S.A. and world at large would not have endured 9/11, or the farce War of Terror it unleashed.

  • sunshine

    ONE WORLD ORDER WILL BE HERE.

  • scottindallas

    Despite the conspiracy theories and all the “lies” that we’d like to pin on Cheney, there’s little evidence he’s venal (greedy). Further, what’s really scary about Cheney is that he may well believe he’s doing the best he can for America. He wouldn’t call the lies, “lies.” No, that’s just the PR pitch to get the “good” program passed. It doesn’t really even help to call Cheney a liar, or any of the charges levied against him here.

    He’s an overbearing, impetuous old fool. He’s been perfectly insulated from the consequences of the policies he supports. He believes, I think, in the force of arms and that $$$ for the MIC is good for the economy.

    However, we didn’t get those oil contracts in Iraq. We’re resented, and making more terrorists in our fight than we kill. We’re persona non-grata in the Middle East, except among our dictator sycophants. It’s easily demonstrated that our policies have backfired. Take Cheney as a well meaning patriot, then attack his stupidity, and short sighted policies. I think he may well believe what he’s doing is good for America. Then again, I have a grandfather that refuses to discuss economics, as that might offend powerful people. Well, discussing the horrors of Jim Crow rocked the boat too. Good men seek to ignore the downsides of the policies they support. They’re the greatest cowards, who have the greatest to lose. Even if, raising up the low will make them richer still, they got where they are by playing along, biting their tongue, then swallowing their conscience. They’re not proud of themselves. They know they’re cowards. And, nothing reminds these “great” men of their all too common fecklessness, their ordinary lameness than reminding them of that which they try to ignore.

    • Dutch

      Well said, but there IS evidence that nothing crashed into the Pentagon or in Shanksville on 9/11, that air defense was told to stand down, BY CHENEY, and that the WTC buildings (especially) tower 7 were rigged with explosives. Or that Cheney lied or changed his story about verifiable facts before, during and after 9/11. So maybe it is you who is afraid to talk real talk and not your grandfather. Watch the videos from Shanksville and the Pentagon. I’ll give you a million dollars if you can point out a single piece of airplane wreckage. Wake up, and stop being afraid to see what is right in front of you. Cheney is no babe-in-the-woods patriot. He is a plotting, scheming, lying traitor. With the blood of Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanis up to his knees. Nobody with a clue would assert anything less…

    • Capn_Mike

      An excellent statement. Nice to see some rationality after some of the “Jew-baiting” above. However, I also thought that Cheney was ideologically motivated until I saw those Halliburton $$$ numbers in Iraq. Maybe a confluence of motives?
      Anyhow, the guy IS a war criminal. Even Hitler was a patriot. God, I can’t believe I just invoked Hitler. Sorry.

  • tammy

    I’ve been saying that for years. Cheney was always Gepetto while Dumbo Dubya was little Pinnochio. The GOP picked Dubya wisely as a chess piece they could move around the board while Cheney ran the country for the whole 8yrs.

  • jongold

    I haven’t seen the documentary, or the context in which these statements were made by Cheney, but based on what is being said here, it doesn’t appear that Cheney “admits” to lying about 9/11. It says that he called the President (apparently before the order to shoot down was given), and then sometime after the call, he gives the order to shoot down aircraft. So far as I can tell, that is pretty much Cheney and Bush’s “story” that we are all familiar with. Cheney got on a call with Bush, Bush authorized the shoot down, Cheney ordered the shoot down. As the article DOES say, “the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.” So, it seems that he is still keeping up with the lie, as opposed to admitting that he lied.

  • Capt Jack Obvious

    The Pentagon did not get hit by a plane. It was missiled. A 747 would have left A LOT more debris. Look up a wreck of a 747 sometime and compare it to the pentagon lie of and apparent lack of enough debris. Same bit goes for the Virginia crash. J-25 jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt the stainless steel used for the support beams of the towers, BUT those floors weren’t designed to hold the weight of a jumbo jet either. The truly scary thing is that alot of crap happened on that day and no one knew which way to look. Judy Wood may be right.

    • ShaneJohns

      That theory doesn’t pass the sniff test — considering so many people actually SAW the plane go into the pentagon. It doesn’t matter, though, with people like you — because you will convince yourself of anything.

      • Capt Jack Obvious

        General Bert Stubblebine, and John Lear both convinced me more than the official story. Both with far more credentials than the talking heads and media outlets. The Video of the “plane” hitting the pentagon showed a wingless projectile with the dimensions more resembling a missile. The 757 was bigger than the hole left in the building.

        • ShaneJohns

          Those ‘dimensions’ are deceptive, given the gigantic size of the overall building.

          • Capt Jack Obvious

            The pentagon is 921 ft. on a side and the 757 has a wingspan of 125 ft. The black marks going along the sides of the intact part of building are indicators of an explosion and not merely an impact. Jets are not known for exploding during crashes.

          • Albury Smith

            Both WTC airliners very obviously exploded when they crashed, and many eyewitnesses also saw AA 77 explode when it hit the Pentagon. It was also tracked by ATC to that location, and the crash was thoroughly investigated by American Airlines, the FBI, and NTSB. Well over 1000 local first responders and others witnessed the wreckage and human remains, some still strapped into their seats.
            There’s irrefutable evidence here of the hijacking and explosives-free crash of AA 77 into the Pentagon if you’re interested in facts instead of fantasy:
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary
            https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

          • Capt Jack Obvious

            Pentagon is 921 ft on a side and a 757 has a wingspan of 125 ft. The black marks on the intact portions of the crash site indicate an explosion. Let’s not forget the almost complete lack of footage from a one of the most watched places on earth. It’s an “Emperor’s New Clothes” story unlike the Towers.

    • Albury Smith

      Stainless steel is not used to frame buildings, and no NIST collapse hypothesis includes any melting of steel, so you’re not doing so hot, CJO.

      Here are some of the people who disagree with you about what hit the Pentagon on 9/11:

      Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue, American Airlines, American Red Cross, Arlington County Emergency Medical Services, Arlington County Fire Department, Arlington County Sheriff’s Department, Arlington VA Police Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic staff, DeWitt Army Community Hospital staff, District of Columbia Fire & Rescue, DOD Honor Guard, Environmental Protection Agency Hazmat Teams, Fairfax County Fire & Rescue, FBI Evidence Recovery Teams, FBI Hazmat Teams, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams Maryland Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, FEMA Emergency Response Team, Fort Myer Fire Department, Four U.S. Army Chaplains, Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit, Military District of Washington Engineers Search & Rescue Team, Montgomery County Fire & Rescue, U.S. National Guard units, National Naval Medical Center CCRF, National Transportation Safety Board, Pentagon Defense Protective Service, Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team, Pentagon Medical Staff, Rader Army Health Clinic Staff, SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams, Salvation Army Disaster Services, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County, Virginia Beach Fire Department, Virginia Department of Emergency Management, Virginia State Police

      More here:

      https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

  • WaterExportsAndTheWaterWar

    Dick Cheney has had a change of heart.

  • Belden Erhart

    Bottom line is him/them used this as a way to line a few pockets since that day. Business as usual? if so, VP Cman just another role player in the show. Looks like another quagmire in the offing with all the woofing on the Persians as the money beast needs to be fed more blood and treasure. I don’t believe their foreign firster ‘think tank’ playbook will go the way its scripted. Look for a ‘false flag’ to get it going as that is what Cman crew are good at…

  • Belden Erhart

    Bottom line is him/them used this as a way to line a few pockets since that day. Business as usual? if so, VP Cman just another role player in the show. Looks like another quagmire in the offing with all the woofing on the Persians as the money beast needs to be fed more blood and treasure. I don’t believe their foreign firster ‘think tank’ playbook will go the way its scripted. Look for a ‘false flag’ to get it going as that is what Cman crew are good at…

  • Belden Erhart

    Bottom line is him/them used this as a way to line a few pockets since that day. Business as usual? if so, VP Cman just another role player in the show. Looks like another quagmire in the offing with all the woofing on the Persians as the money beast needs to be fed more blood and treasure. I don’t believe their foreign firster ‘think tank’ playbook will go the way its scripted. Look for a ‘false flag’ to get it going as that is what Cman crew are good at…

  • auntiegrav

    Yeah, but what are you actually going to do about it? Arrest Cheney? It might make good TV, but that’s all.
    The real decisions which guide our military and government are made every day by people like you and I. We vote with our dollars every time we buy something. The corporations count the votes and pass them on to lobbyists, who pass the votes (dollars) into campaign coffers. We vote once every 4 years for a president to sit on top of the pile of dead bodies and say “We’re # 1!!”, but we vote every day for corporations to rape, pillage, and bribe their way to profitable exploitation of ourselves and the world. Every oil spill, every war, every political despot can be traced back to the power of the people demanding crap they don’t need. The more of that we buy, the more money they have to spend on advertising to tell us to buy even more of it, and to work for nearly nothing (compared to the top .01%) while receiving just enough to keep us working for them. We don’t need them. They need US. People lived for thousands of years without cars, yet now every political decision seems to be based on getting oil or minerals so we can drive to the mall to buy new clothes to get a job to buy a car to drive to the mall to buy new phones. What are people FOR? “The opposite of consumption is not frugality, it’s generosity.” What actions are we taking that contribute to the future resource base rather than destroy it? These questions will NOT be addressed by presidents or corporate CEOs until we stop paying them to keep their wealthy status quo.

  • Beth Raynor

    And if you (like me) were actually foolish enough to think once-upon-a-time that it couldn’t possibly get any worse than Bush/Cheney… Now you know how wrong we were.

    • range

      and (like me) even some republican think that!

  • TJ

    Look up, Project for the New American Century (PNAC), it is a decent outline of everything we’ve been going through since 9/11…. to this day.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

  • Jim

    Yada, yada, yaha…isn’t citizen’s arrest still legal? You people will be sitting in FEMA camps soon having the same intelligent conversation and doing the same analysis. Yes, you are in a totalitarian state – you want to stay there or do something? Act or you might as well be quiet and say a prayer or whatever….

  • Schmice

    Arrest him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/erick.tippett Erick Tippett

    All this syncs in parallel with the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy who, according to several
    published sources authored by among others James W. Douglas, Robert Groden, and Harrison Edward
    Livingston, had to communicate through a sympathetic KGB agent with Nikita Kruschev in order to
    avoid the vaporization of over 400 million Americans and even more Russians because his own staff,
    secret service personnel, CIA, and military Joint Chiefs were so cold war crazed that he found himself
    as president isolated from this own government during the entire Cuban Missile Crisis and thereafter!
    This posture on his part and the paranoia associated with this and other issues involving Kennedy
    no doubt led to his assassination in Dallas which was so filled with muddled miss-information and intrigue that most of the public where suspicious of some sort of conspiracy even though there was nothing anyone could place a definitive finger upon.

    Remember, the United States before the Berlin Conference of 1885 granted acknowledgement to King Leopold II and his claim on all of what came to be called the ‘Belgian Congo’. Good Ol’ U.S. business folk also received compensatory privileges including generous portions of Congo Uranium which of course was used to arm the atomic bombs dropped on Japan during the second world war years later!
    And of course Dwight David Eisenhower whose racist remarks about “over sized Negroes” sitting next
    to little white girls in integrated schools and boldly reported in outraged Justice Earl Warren’s Biography
    give cause to suspect that allegations that he ordered by innuendo to John Foster Dulles the murder
    (assassination) of Patrice Lumumba the charasmatic Congolese Prime Mininster on January 17/1961
    through that satanic slop-jar institution the American Central Intelligence Agency better know as CIA.
    The unsavory history of the United States conveniently omitted from all history texts could no doubt

    fill libraries spread around the globe!

    But that’s history and those who win the wars, count the votes, and make the movies can paint the
    pictures of themselves in relation to other peoples that pleases their egos and satisfies their need
    for gratification and power over others!

    Need more be said?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P3T63YJJRXFIDLNV22EI7MPFT4 Jonathan

      On behalf of Republicans everywhere I bid you continue to suck Democratic Dick… Your lies are easily overturned. Eisenhower would have passed the Civil rights Act in 1957 had it not been been for KKKSupreme Kleagle Lyndon Baines Johnson. Johnson’s quote which is easily verified, said, “I’ll have these niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.” Al Gore, Sr. was a close helper of LBJ.

  • chrisalien

    This is just a ruse……Bin laden and 19 arabs did NOT take out 911…..it was an inside job. Interviews and dococ’s about this crap are just to cover over the truth. Its not a conspiracy…its a straight fact.

  • EdwardWJones

    A little knife that could cut a small piece of skin kept 189 people at bay while they were flown to their death? Maybe it was an exploding knife?

  • EdwardWJones

    We all need to have our IDs made of that same material that made it through the explosion and fire that melted steel and brought down 3 buildings. Strong stuff.

  • realnewz

    “After I’d given the order, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.”

    Im confused is he now saying he did give orders to take the plane down and that it was shot down??

  • VVV

    As with all liars, was he actually lying then or is he lying now?

  • orcasislandtv

    some how, be it the civil war, or this latest round of wars. if you don’t follow the money, you don’t see what happened. between 2000 and 2010 – the GOP has worked diligently to divert america’s attention from the economic thievery going on at the highest levels of ‘business’ to ‘terrorism’ . It turns out, economic terrorism was at play and it stole from the majority of Americans and re-distributed to the commonwealth to literally a handful of wealthy people. The numbers bear it out. Today’s oil price gouging is removing 250 *b*illion dollars a year from drivers pockets. And yet, folks are listening to Rand Rant about presidential power to take out a terrorist in the US. While 250 billion dollars of gasoline overcharges flows out of drivers pockets into the hands of a few. In 4 years a Trillion dollars in just gas gouging. Yet, Americans don’t get outraged about it. We watch tv and hear, there’s nothing we can do about being screwed by energy, health care and finance corruption. Follow what happened economically during this time, and the dirty trillions will magically appear, if you look.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1237003737 David Fisk

    a politician lied?!?!?! Someone get me a fainting couch.

  • http://twitter.com/peterappleby21 Peter Appleby

    Evil will destroy itself! Take heart.This is now “The Apocalypse” the revealing.They will ALL cave in under their own corruption.This is happening now.Jay Rockefeller said “The Internet was a HUGE mistake”..I wonder why?

  • Bud Woods

    MAYBE IT’S TIME FOR PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THE POSITION OF PRESIDENT IS A FARCE. THE POWERS TO BE CONTROL THE U.S. AS WELL AS THE WORLD. WAR IS PROFITABLE AND ALSO A WAY TO REDUCE POPULATION. HUMAN LIVE MEAN NOTHING TO THESE PEOPLE AS EVIDENT BY 9/11, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, AND LEST WE FORGET-VIETNAM. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WW1 & WW2,ALL OTHER CONFLICTS INVOLVING OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WERE NOT OUR SPATS TO BECOME INVOLVED IN. I DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE MUSLIMS, IRAN, RUSSIA, OR CHINA. WE WILL GO DOWN AT THE HANDS OF OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

  • http://www.facebook.com/muhammad.othman.940 عباس بن فرناس

    • Albury Smith

      If you really believe that explosives brought down WTC hi-rises on 9/11, please urge Box Boy and his “experts” to demonstrate the explosive cutting of some W14 X 730 columns on video with audio. All 4 corner columns in the towers’ cores, and 11 of the 24 core columns in WTC 7 were that size, so let’s see how well they do with 4.91″ flanges, 3.07″ webs, and 215 sq in cross sections. If they were ever forced to do it, we’d never hear another peep out of them about secret explosive demolitions in NYC.

      • ShaneJohns

        Nonsense. Cutter charges are able to cut through such things. Otherwise, how the hell do you think they cut up the rubble to remove it? Magic?

        • Albury Smith

          Whenever I’ve had to do it, I’ve always used an oxyacetylene torch, and have never even heard of using explosives to cut up and remove steel from a debris pile. The tower columns were shipped in 3-story lengths and WTC 7’s in 2-story lengths, and burning bolted connections apart is a lot easier than cutting though the massive WF sections like W14 X 730s, but I’m sure some were field cut with torches because they were bent so badly in the collapses that they wouldn’t fit on flatbed trucks.

          NIST said that ONE explosive cut through a W14 X 730 would produce 130 to 140 dB AT A HALF MILE, but Box Boy and his clowns are welcome to prove them wrong. 140 dB is above the threshold of pain, so quote mining FDNY close to the burning buildings for the word “explosion” would not have been necessary; people many miles away would have heard them.

          • ShaneJohns

            There’s a youtube video entitled “9/11 Experiments: The Great Thermate Debate” – it’s worth watching. Thermate CAN cut through steel, but the SHAPE of the charge is important. If you just lay the stuff on steel, it will not. But you can direct the burn through the shape of the charge. That’s why they’re called shape charges. They channel the burning heat from the reaction into a narrow strip, rather than allowing it to burn without any directedness.

            The video creator of the above-mentioned video shows the experiments he conducts….you don’t have to take his word on it.

          • Albury Smith

            Thermate’s an incendiary, not an explosive, and the video you’re referring to shows very clearly why incendiaries aren’t used in controlled demolitions. The bulky contraptions Jonathan Cole had to use to keep the thermate in contact with the steel would be even harder to hide in occupied office buildings than cutter charges, and he had all day to wait for the effects on the steel to materialize, but C/Ds have to be timed to split-second accuracy.
            His WF was horizontal, not an in-place column, and ~3/4″ flanges are hardly comparable to the 4.91″ flanges of W14 X 730s. Cole’s contraptions are not shapeD charges; they’re simply fire-resistant restraints to keep the thermate from falling off, and drilling steel to fasten something like that after ripping out architectural enclosures is hardly realistic in WTC conditions. He’d also need wheelbarrows to bring in all of the thermate, and the mess it makes on steel would be impossible to miss during cleanup.

          • ShaneJohns

            At this point, all I can tell you is that the security cameras were turned off in the towers, immediately prior to the event. So yes, they would have had to move some bulky equipment into place to do this, but so what? The wouldn’t have needed to do this to every floor…just a few key floors.

          • Albury Smith

            So only one guy in one of the towers knows about this alleged “power down,” and PAPD security just takes a few days off while the tenants all walk around blind? What did these alleged explosives DO, since they didn’t even scatter the smoke before the tops of the towers began falling, and no evidence of explosive cutting was found on the steel during the ~8 months of cleanup?

            236 of the 283 columns in each tower were IN PLAIN SIGHT and looked like this:
            http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/wtc/select/clifton/images/image008.gif
            Good luck getting to the steel secretly and hiding something there.

          • ShaneJohns

            I’ve worked in skyscrapers before, and often entire floors are typically vacant for remodeling. There were floors which were vacant on 9/11 — with witnesses claiming to hear sounds coming from those floors… So really, it’s a fallacy to suggest that they would have to lay down these charges in front of all the tenants.

          • Albury Smith

            I just showed you what a typical perimeter column in a WTC tower looked like. “40” is tight-fitting 1/10″ aluminum brake metal, and the finish on the inside was painted plaster directly applied to the steel. There were 236 of these out of the 283 total columns in each tower, and they were all IN PLAIN SIGHT. Where on earth would you hide these imaginary shaped charges if you ever got them past PAPD dogs trained to sniff explosives and also breached tenant security, since that’s where most of the perimeter columns were? Are they plane-proof and fireproof explosives? Why aren’t they seen or heard prior to or during either tower collapse, and why was no evidence of explosive cutting seen on any column ends in the debris?
            There’s also no plausible and coherent motive for your redundant explosives – the US wasn’t going to send al Qaeda a warning letter if no hi-rises collapsed on 9/11, and the lessee lost billions on them, even with the insurance payout. He’s paying $10 million/mo to the PANYNJ for the WTC property, despite having no income from it and with new buildings under construction because of his contractual obligation to rebuild.
            Any thoughts on why 12 different insurers paid a total of $4.68 BILLION to cover these losses if they were suspicious in origin? Lloyd’s, Swiss Re, Zurich Financial, and Copenhagen Re are not even US-based companies.

          • ShaneJohns

            And I just showed you an article showing shaped charges. Now you can try to argue that the sheer size of the beam makes it impossible, but I don’t think so. It simply takes a larger device than the one showed on the page I linked to you. The difference is in degree, not KIND — a philosophical/physical distinction you may recognize.

            As for motive and who was in on it — that *IS* sheer speculation. I could give reasonable answers to the imponderables you present, but they would be speculative. They’d be RATIONAL, but speculative. It’s only important in the initial stages to show what is physically POSSIBLE.

            Have you considered the cost that the owner would have incurred to remove all the asbestos they’d been ordered to remove? Don’t you think that would have to come off the ‘bottom line’ figure somehow, if you’re doing a cost-benefit analysis as to possible criminal intent? As for the loss of revenue — that’s a bunch of hogwash, and you should well know it. The interest on insurance payout would more than cover the loss of revenue from rent…

          • Albury Smith

            Anything’s possible, but at what dB level?
            Larry Silverstein didn’t become a billionaire by leasing asbestos-laden losers, and wasn’t even high bidder on the WTC leases; he got them when no agreement could be reached by another RE management corporation with the PANYNJ. Code revisions in the ’70s ensured that NO asbestos was in the South Tower or WTC 7 (built ~14 years later), and only the bottom 38 floors of the North Tower had any ACM at all, most of which had been safely removed during tenant fit-outs prior to 2001. You could retire very comfortably on what Silverstein LOST just in cash flow from that ~95% occupied office space for a decade+ and counting since the AQ suicide attacks of 9/11, and insurance didn’t even cover half of his obligatory rebuilding costs. US troops were as good as on the ground in Afghanistan when UA 175 hit the South Tower, so where’s the motive for this evidence-free and impossible scenario you’re alleging?

          • ShaneJohns

            Silverstein wasn’t owner. Given the length of the lease, he was certainly effective ‘owner’, but I don’t think he was obligated to rebuild with his proceeds. I confess, I don’t know the terms of the lease — but you can buy insurance for all sorts of things. How do you know he’s mandated to use the proceeds to rebuild, rather than as a hedge against his lost future earnings? It seems to me that the port authority would have had to have their own insurance on the structure, if they wanted it rebuilt after a terrorist attack.

          • Albury Smith

            You’ve already posted entirely bogus information regarding an alleged asbestos problem in buildings closed in after the code revision proscribed asbestos use, so I’d suggest looking up the contract Larry Silverstein had with the PANYNJ for the WTC properties before sharing more bad information and 9/11 “truth movement” fantasies. He’s not only financially responsible for rebuilding them, he’s also required to pay ~$10 million a month in rent to the PA for use of the land while he does it. He also borrowed heavily to get the WTC leases in the first place, and his lenders forced him to carry more insurance than he originally intended to buy. He was the plaintiff against 12 different insurance companies with his claim that 2 planes equaled 2 payouts, so his legal standing in the matter is very obvious.The properties were also at a record high ~95% occupancy in 2001, so claiming that he benefited in the slightest from the al Qaeda suicide of 9/11 attacks is beyond absurd.

            He was not the owner of the towers or other buildings he leased in 2001, but he built WTC 7 in 1986, and owned it, so your statement that “Silverstein wasn’t owner” should be qualified.

          • ShaneJohns

            “He’s not only financially responsible for rebuilding them, he’s also
            required to pay ~$10 million a month in rent to the PA for use of the
            land while he does it.”

            Proof of your claim? So far as I can find, he is required to pay the rent, but NOT required to replace the towers — though he DOES have the right to rebuild on the site, SHOULD HE WANT TO.

            Nonetheless, this is little more than a strawman argument by you, since it was YOU, not me, who brought up Silverstein.

            I notice you have absolutely ignored the angle cuts on the beams — because you know damn well you can’t explain it.

          • Albury Smith

            “We have never, ever heard the term ‘pull it’ being used to refer
            to the explosive demolition of a building, and neither has any blast team we’ve
            spoken with.” -Brent Blanchard of Protec

            http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf

            You started with the asbestos yarn, which usually implicates Larry Silverstein. He was definitely responsible for rebuilding WTC 7, and wasn’t carrying billions of dollars in insurance on the towers just to protect against lost cash flow; he was contractually obligated to rebuild. His creditors forced higher limits on him, or he’d have lost even more.
            I’m still waiting for a plausible and coherent motive for these imaginary C/Ds, as well as a logical alleged perpetrator. It seems to vacillate between the evil US gubmint, the Mossad, da’ Joos in general, and LS, so which is it, and why was it allegedly done?

          • ShaneJohns

            The WRH article I mentioned previously makes an interesting note about the cuts we DO see in the rubble…. If you were cutting one of those beams with a torch, you’d probably cut straight across — to minimize the amount of material you had to cut through. But the beams have angled cuts — which makes absolutely no sense if you’re cutting them with a torch.

            http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/thermiteonwtccolumns.jpg

          • Albury Smith

            You’d have to take that up with the Local 40 and 361 ironworkers and others who worked on the cleanup for nearly 8 months. Diagonal cuts with gray slag around them are not from explosives, incendiaries, or anything else except cutting torches. They very obviously were cut that way with torches during the cleanup, and I’ve never seen a torch cut that didn’t leave “once liquid metal congealed on the beam,” especially during demolition cleanup work when aesthetics don’t matter.

          • ShaneJohns

            There is no rational reason for them to have cut those beams on the diagonal rather than across the shortest path. None.

          • Albury Smith

            So if an oxyacetylene torch cut is on roughly the same angle as a cutter charge, it has to be a cutter charge? I certainly hope I don’t have to explain to you why explosives don’t leave loose material like slag clinging to the steel around the cuts they make.
            If you think explosives or incendiaries leave pools of molten metal in debris piles, please feel free to name some of them, and cite a few real C/Ds that have left molten metal behind for months. The WTC debris fires were hot enough to melt aluminum and lead, and took 3 months or more to extinguish. Oddly enough, the ~40,000 different people who worked at GZ for nearly 8 months are not in your 9/11 “truth movement.” Gee; go figure…

  • http://twitter.com/Crystlefire Crystle Fire

    This is written by ONE journalist and his opinions and look how easily ONE journalist jerk you guys around. NOW tomorrow he might retract all this garbage but you wont read that because this ONE story by ONE journalist is allready embedded in your minds and “the truth” as you see it! How easily one person can completely manipulate people by just writing ONE opinionated article!! NONE of you will see if any of this opinion by one journalist is even half the truth. You will accept this as the whole truth from ONE person who might dislike and hate Bush and no other reason! There are so many lies made up by the hatred and negative feelings of ONE journalist and people believe it immediately! We are doomed as a nation when ONE journalist is given this much power!!!

  • Kevin

    Its nice that Maureen can keep the attention on Pres Bush and VP Cheney’s illegal and immoral behavior – but fails to mention that Pres Obama has maintained and expanded many of these programs such as spying on US citizens, authorization to assasinate US citizens, continuing to dilute the constitution, expanding secrecy (while trumpeting transparency), etc, etc. She would be more effective if she could point up the failings of the office REGARDLESS of which party held it. The point is Bush wasn’t an effective or ethical president – and neither is Obama. The difference is the Maureen Dowd’s of this world only seem to care when there’s an “R” attached to the end of the President’s name, but are both willingly blind and mute when that letter is a “D”.

  • atheist

    How is he not being charged for war crimes?

  • Sun Tzu 2013

    Come on everyone, The ´DICK´ is just a LITTLE near sighted!!! I read just today that his old chums at Haliberten are one of the biggest winners in the resurgence of oil production in Iraq, some 60 BILLION worth. Hey, but what´s not to like about the guy. He´s a great quail hunting partner!!! even though, by all standard definition at the Hague he´s a WAR CRIMINAL!!!!!!!

  • jongold

    Recently, this report from Maureen Dowd about Showtime’s new movie “The World According to Dick Cheney” was released entitled, “Maureen Dowd / Repent, Dick Cheney.” In it, she says “when they testified together before the 9/11 Commission, W. and Mr. Cheney kept up a pretense that in a previous call, the president had authorized the vice president to give a shoot-down order if needed. But the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.”

    Maureen’s article prompted GeorgeWashington of washingtonsblog.com to write an article entitled “Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11.” In that article, he says that “Cheney pretended that Bush had authorized a shoot-down order, but Cheney now admits that he never did. In fact, Cheney acted as if he was the president on 9/11.” This article from GW was plastered all over the web.

    Unfortunately, Cheney never “admitted” to anything. In the documentary, Cheney says “after I’d given the order, uh, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.” Showtime’s documentary does not mention the phone call between Bush and Cheney. It just mention’s Cheney’s order.

    Cheney and Bush’s story is that Cheney and Bush spoke on the phone, Bush gave him the authorization to shoot down aircraft, and Cheney conveyed that order to those who needed to hear it. As Maureen Dowd wrote, the 9/11 Commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.” Here is what the 9/11 Report says:

    “The Vice President remembered placing a call to the President just after entering the shelter conference room. There is conflicting evidence about when the Vice President arrived in the shelter conference room. We have concluded, from the available evidence, that the Vice President arrived in the room shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. The Vice President recalled being told, just after his arrival, that the Air Force was trying to establish a combat air patrol over Washington.

    The Vice President stated that he called the President to discuss the rules of engagement for the CAP. He recalled feeling that it did no good to establish the CAP unless the pilots had instructions on whether they were authorized to shoot if the plane would not divert. He said the President signed off on that concept. The President said he remembered such a conversation, and that it reminded him of when he had been an interceptor pilot. The President emphasized to us that he had authorized the shootdown of hijacked aircraft.

    The Vice President’s military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, “Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they’re going to want to know what to do.” Then she recalled hearing him say, “Yes sir.” She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room.

    We believe this call would have taken place sometime before 10:10 to 10:15. Among the sources that reflect other important events of that morning, there is no documentary evidence for this call, but the relevant sources are incomplete. Others nearby who were taking notes, such as the Vice President’s chief of staff, Scooter Libby, who sat next to him, and Mrs. Cheney, did not note a call between the President and Vice President immediately after the Vice President entered the conference room.

    At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft—presumably hijacked—heading toward Washington. That aircraft was United 93. The Secret Service was getting this information directly from the FAA. The FAA may have been tracking the progress of United 93 on a display that showed its projected path to Washington, not its actual radar return. Thus, the Secret Service was relying on projections and was not aware the plane was already down in Pennsylvania.

    At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, “in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing.” The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes.

    At the conference room table was White House Deputy Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten. Bolten watched the exchanges and, after what he called “a quiet moment,” suggested that the Vice President get in touch with the President and confirm the engage order. Bolten told us he wanted to make sure the President was told that the Vice President had executed the order. He said he had not heard any prior discussion on the subject with the President.

    The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President’s press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary.” – [pgs. 40-41, 9/11 Report]

    Showtime omitting the alleged phone call between Bush and Cheney discussing authorization for a “shoot down” is not the same as Cheney “admitting” to lying about 9/11.

    Cheney most certainly lied about 9/11, but he never “admitted” to it.

    • Albury Smith

      Whatever GeeDubya and Deadeye’s pya account of a 9/11 shoot-down order entails, no NORAD aircraft ever had the opportunity to shoot down any of the hijacked airliners, and no airliner hijacked in US airspace has ever been shot down over populated areas before, so what’s the point of all of this extraneous info?

      • jongold

        Accuracy.

        • alburyt

          Care to throw a verb in there or something?

    • Albury Smith

      Norman Mineta must’ve lied too:

      Hard to imagine why the VPOTUS hesitated to order the killing of passengers and crew on commercial airliners, and wreckage and bodies raining down on populated areas of the US, innit?

  • nighthawk

    put a rope around his neck and do it in new york from the new trade center building from the top floor.

  • c.faugh

    The Constitution is in tatters, Bush,Cheney and Rumsfielld are al war criminals. They and the curent Congress and Senate are Traitors to ther Oath of Office they took to uphold and defend the Consttitution;they are also Murderers of untold thousands with their war on drugs and phony wars. They all violated when they passed the so called Patriot Act , and every day of the past years since.
    Including Obama.
    We don’t vote every one of these traitors out, Aamerica is gone!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Greenberg/1705347662 Joseph Greenberg

    We might never know the truth about 9/11 but we know that what the government tells us is total bullshit intended for the average jerk in the street who is not too smart and very gullible. Was 9/11 a false flag operation? It certainly seems so. Thousands of honest, patriotic engineers, architects,pilots, scholars,firefighters have called for an honest investigation of 9/11 because they know that what the government tells us are total lies. It took at least 20 years for the official story of the JFK assassination to be debunked. How long will it take before some measure of truth of 9/11 surfaces?

    • alburyt

      What’s patriotic about libeling countless Americans with pure crap, Joseph? 9/11 was anOTHER al Qaeda suicide attack – one of a progression of suicide attacks starting in 1998 with 2 US embassy suicide bombings, and including the 2000 Cole suicide bombing. It was preceded by the 1993 North Tower bombing, a fatwa in 1996 and another in 1998, and explained again in the 1998 Osama bin Laden interview with ABC’s John Miller. It has not been denied in more than a decade, despite the enormous wealth and influence of the bin Ladens, Zawahiris, and Azzams (Ayman al-Zawahiri’s mother’s family). No nation, intelligence agency, or legitimate media on earth agrees with 9/11 “truth movement” crap, and AQ doesn’t want or need you to defend them.

  • pomeroo

    Am I the only person here who noticed that Cheney did NOT admit to lying about anything?

    Sorry to disturb you loons. You may resume ranting.

  • johnbraeden

    This is
    what I thought too, but is now looks like some are wrong and some are right.
    Oh well, you win some and you lose some that’s life I guess.

  • James Ledger

    The quicker the world wakes up to the world governments/elites, the better. We are pawns and slaves.

  • Kevin White

    Look people, there is more than enough evidence out there to convict ANY of you or I…. We know who is responsible… It’s grade school stuff. We just need to get close enough to choke the life out of those certain few individuals who devised and orchestrated the sinister operation, then we can get back to work, and see to it that we learn from our mistakes… Like #1. First thing we do is END PARTY LINES ! We are Americans FIRST and a PARTY has nothing to do with WORK… and by party lines, I don’t mean the ones you’ve been doing on your mirror !…. #2. YOU, Those who are elected, You MF’s work for us… WE THE PEOPLE pay you to do a job for all Americans, not for your lollygagging asses personal bank accounts ! and #3. ALL LOBBYIST’S must die ! because you are the fucking Devil with a sack of dirty money, a selfish plan, wearing a three piece suit !

  • Cold Hard Truth

    All 911 roads run thru Dick Cheney.

    • Albury Smith

      Some roads run through these people:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW8_Zbsirdw

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qloshSGAJ1s

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6obQ5naNn0

      From OBL’s 1998 (second) fatwa: “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies – civilians and military – is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, “and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,” and “fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God [blah, blah, blah…]”
      They needed no help from President Bush’s goofy kid or his sidekick Deadeye to hijack and crash 4 planes on 9/11.

  • dondikaio

    What i don’t understand is why isn’t Bush, Cheney and all other corrupt politicians held accountable? Why is that? To me the logical way to go about situations of corruption in politics, religion, or any other publicly held position should be that there isn’t ways for them to be exempt from prosecution or concealing of facts but because we intrust so much to these people, things that affect the lives of so many that they should be held accountable even more so. It’s backwards as is and it’s not working. It needs to change but nothing is being done about it. How do we make that change? could someone please tell me?

    • dondikaio

      sorry I want to clarify my point a little more. I’m not anti government, for instance take the Snowden situation. There’s no doubt in my mind that there is things that need to be kept secret from the public that’s an unfortunate fact but I don’t have faith in or trust the government so how can one just be ok with allowing them to monitor everyone without warrant or collect data and store it for use for whatever reason. Is it for terrorism only? Who knows you can’t trust the people who are telling you what they’re doing because they’ve been caught so many times, look at the Obama administration it’s sickening. As for me I’m leaving this country, soon. I rather setup in some tropical island writing code and not worry about the invasion that the US government is doing to us here in the US… oh wait s@#$! They’re doing it to everyone in the world hmm…

  • Dave Eboch

    I really made a conscious decision that I wanted to give up the idea of any Zionist or Jewish involvement in 911. After all Silverstein may just have taken all that insurance out as a precaution. So just when I was starting to think people were being to paranoid and blaming Zionist might be way off track I find out about Daniel Liebskind. Thousands of American contractors made bids on rebuilding the WTC but Daniel Liebskind an Israeli contractor gets the job, makes a ton of cash, and no consideration was given to an American contractor. So tell me who benefitted the most in the world from 911? It wasn’t us, it sure as hell was not the Arab world, it was a lot of. Israel that benefitted. If I am wrong I apoligize but with every crime you look at motive and who would have benefitted.

    • Albury Smith

      These people benefited:

      [The following text is the fatwa published on Feb. 23,
      1998, to declare a holy war against the West and Israel. It is signed by Osama
      bin Laden, head of al Qaeda; Ayman al-Zawahiri, head of Jihad Group in Egypt,
      and other Islamic terrorist groups.]

      Praise be to God, who revealed the
      Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: “But when
      the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find
      them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
      (of war)”; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-‘Abdallah, who said: I
      have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is
      worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who
      inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.

      The Arabian Peninsula has never — since God made it flat, created its
      desert, and encircled it with seas — been stormed by any forces like the
      crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out
      its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking
      Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave
      situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current
      events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

      No one argues today about three facts that are known to
      everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

      First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of
      Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches,
      dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and
      turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the
      neighboring Muslim peoples.

      If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all
      the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is
      the Americans’ continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the
      Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their
      territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

      Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the
      crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which
      has exceeded 1 million… despite all this, the Americans are once against
      trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the
      protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and
      devastation.

      So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate
      their Muslim neighbors. Third, if the Americans’ aims behind these wars are
      religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews’ petty state and
      divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.
      The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest
      neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the
      region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and
      through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel’s survival and the
      continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

      All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration
      of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic
      history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy
      destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in “Al-
      Mughni,” Imam al-Kisa’i in “Al-Bada’i,” al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and
      the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: “As for the fighting to
      repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a
      duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except
      repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life.” On that basis, and in
      compliance with God’s order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

      The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military
      — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which
      it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy
      mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all
      the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in
      accordance with the words of Almighty God, “and fight the pagans all together as
      they fight you all together,” and “fight them until there is no more tumult or
      oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God.”

      This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: “And why should ye not
      fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and
      oppressed)? — women and children, whose cry is: ‘Our Lord, rescue us from this
      town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will
      help!'”

      We — with God’s help — call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes
      to be rewarded to comply with God’s order to kill the Americans and plunder
      their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema,
      leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan’s U.S. troops and the
      devil’s supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them
      so that they may learn a lesson.

      Almighty God said: “O ye who believe, give your response to God and His
      Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God
      cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be
      gathered.”

      Almighty God also says: “O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that
      when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the
      earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the
      comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He
      will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him
      ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things.”

      Almighty God also says: “So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must
      gain mastery if ye are true in faith.”

  • Ghost

    Every one knows that the US & Jewish Mossad were behind these terrorist acts, I can’t wait for the day the truth comes out & people realize what these Mossad murdering dogs are really like,why did we go help these fuckers from nazi camps I think hitler must have seen these people for what their really like, & hope bush Chaney & the rest of the conspirators get what’s coming to them

    • Albury Smith

      Everyone but these people (plus every government, legitimate media source, and intelligence agency IN THE WORLD):

      From OBL’s 1998 (second) fatwa: “The ruling to kill the Americans
      and their allies-civilians and military-is an individual duty for every Muslim
      who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order
      to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and
      in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and
      unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty
      God, “and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,” and
      “fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail
      justice and faith in God [blah, blah, blah…]”

    • plenty

      Common knowledge

      • Albury Smith

        Common ignorance.

        • plenty

          Jewish Disinformation

          • Albury Smith

            Da Joos don’t commit al Qaeda suicide attacks.

          • plenty

            Oh? Since when

          • Albury Smith

            Da Joos don’t commit suicide attacks, and al Qaeda, formed in 1988, does. Three examples of al Qaeda suicide attacks on the US are the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Nairobi & Dar es Salaam, the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in Aden Harbor, and the 9/11/2001 attacks targeting NYC and the Washington, DC area.

    • plenty

      Common knowledge

  • pomeroo

    Funny, nowhere does Cheney admit to lying about 9/11 and yet the conspiracy loons are pretending that he did. Nowhere does Cheney suggest that he had not received a shoot-down order from Bush.

  • sam100001

    cheney is one sick pos. In my heart, I know he did it. he is one cold assed mf. he wanted to get into Iraq so Halliburton could take it over and make him and his weird family even richer. I hate his guts.

    • Albury Smith

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6obQ5naNn0

      From OBL’s 1998 (second) fatwa: “The ruling to kill the Americans
      and their allies-civilians and military-is an individual duty for every Muslim
      who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order
      to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and
      in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and
      unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty
      God, “and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,” and
      “fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail
      justice and faith in God [blah, blah, blah…]”

    • Albury Smith

      So why is the evil US out of Iraq and ISIL taking over? All Shrub & Deadeye did was attack the wrong country ~18 months after the 9/11/01 al Qaeda suicide attacks on the US.

  • pomeroo

    Funny, when you actually read the article it turns out that Cheney did NOT “admit” to lying about anything. Imagine that! The conspiracy liars who NEVER tell the truth about ANYTHING were the liars.

  • pomeroo

    Regarding Bush and Cheney’s bank statements, YES, the DNC monitored the two of them v-e-r-y closely.

  • pomeroo

    It turns out that Cheney didn’t lie about anything and certainly didn’t admit to lying. The twoofer lied.

    Gee, stop the presses!

  • Stewland

    Evidence will surface that will show that Cheney was the mastermind and a willing participant in the events of 9/11 . For now this will not be accepted by the masses because most people refuse to believe it. The use of Super Thermites and the implosion of building 7 , a football fields distance away from ground zero. These explosives will be shown to have been installed weeks before. The owner of building7 is also involved.

  • julia john

    Fascinating information I haven’t been experienced such information in quite a long time.
    protect america security reviews

  • poorhardworker

    It is the “unknown” shareholders of The Fed that were behind this.

    • Albury Smith

      These are not “the ‘unknown’ shareholders of The Fed”:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWVC4JBjtEE
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6obQ5naNn0
      From OBL’s 1998 (second) fatwa: “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies-civilians and military-is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, ‘and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,’ and ‘fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God [blah, blah, blah…]'”

  • jackpiner

    They didn’t protect NYC with F-16s but would protect the GOVERNMENT WORKERS IN WASHINGTON DC…thanks chaney

 

 

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