What Does It Mean that Residents in All 50 States Have Filed Petitions to Secede?

Secession:  Exploding Movement, Tempest In a Teapot … Or Something Else?

A lot of attention is being given to the fact that residents in all 50 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States.

Daily Caller reports:

By 6:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, more than 675,000 digital signatures appeared on 69 separate secession petitions covering all 50 states, according to a Daily Caller analysis of requests lodged with the White House’s “We the People” online petition system.

***

Petitions from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North CarolinaTennessee and Texas residents have accrued at least 25,000 signatures, the number the Obama administration says it will reward with a staff review of online proposals. (RELATEDWill Texas secede? Petition triggers White House review)

The Texas petition leads all others by a wide margin.

***

States whose active petitions have not yet reached the 25,000 signature threshold include Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

***

Fourteen states are represented by at least two competing petitions. The extra efforts from two states — Missouri and South Carolina — would add enough petitions to warrant reviews by the Obama administration if they were combined into petitions launched earlier.

Other states with multiple efforts include Alaska, California, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin.

As Google notes, web searches for the term “secession” are being run in a number of states:

Conservatives – such as Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul -  say that the states have the right to secede.  And Texas governor Rick Perry said that Texas has a right to secede (although he counsels against it at the current time).

On the other hand, most liberals say that the Civil War ended the state’s right to secede.    Huffington Post is covering the wave of secession petitions … to ridicule them.

Daily Kos suggests that “secessionists can secede by renouncing their citizenship“.

As the Daily Caller notes, liberals have launched their own counter-petitions:

In a … nose-thumbing aimed at Texas’ conservative majority, progressives from the liberal state capital of Austin responded Monday with a petition to secede from their state if Texas as a whole should decide to leave the Union.

Late Tuesday a second group of Texans, this one from Houston, lodged their own White House petition. Secession-minded Texans, they wrote, “are mentally deficient and [we] do not want them representing us. We would like more education in our state to eradicate their disease.”

***

A group from El Paso, too, wants no part of an independent Texas. “Allow the city of El Paso to secede from the state of Texas,” their petition reads. “El Paso is tired of being a second class city within Texas.”

Yahoo News argues that the petitions are meaningless:

The petitions are little more than symbolic—and nothing new. Similar petitions were filed after the 2004 and 2008 elections.

Libertarian website Lew Rockwell argues in a piece by Ryan McMaken that nothing will come of the current secession attempts, but that the principle is important:

I have no illusions about this latest secession petition phenomenon. Nothing will directly come of this, and the people who are behind it are mostly people who would be singing “God Bless America” at the tops of their lungs had Mitt Romney been elected. On the other hand, it sure has a lot of people talking about secession, which shows that the idea of it remains an important part of the American political consciousness.

***

The Declaration makes a simple argument:

  1. Humans have rights from the Creator.
  2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it).
  3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.

That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was no such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And, no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.

The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains[:]

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775–1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.

Ron Paul says that states have the right to secede … and predicts they will do so when the dollar collapses:

My take has been the same for many years … I believe that America – like the Soviet Union – may break up when corruption and tyranny lead to the break down of basic systems.

And see this, this and this.

Update: As Bob Unruh notes, Supreme Court Justice Scalia thinks that the states can’t secede … but Thomas Jefferson thought they could.

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  • Deep Space

    GO STATE POWER!!!
    Fuck the illegitimate, war-mongering, bankster-controlled, criminal
    fed govt. GO HUMANITY!!!

    • 7generead8

      In what context do you mean State Power? There are 2 you know. Say, New York State, or, The State Of New York ( this state ).

  • George Kaplan

    I would like to remind everyone that there are 330,000,000 + people in the US. The number of people who have signed these petitions does not even measure up to an insignificant minority.

    Wast your time on something that might actually produce some results. This is just a venting exercise for the politically frustrated, educationally challenged and dangerously inbred.

    The Majority of REAL Americans ARE NOT SIGNING THIS EXERCISE IN STUPIDITY. Where is the press on that.

    • Barry Soetoro

      I feel sorry for you, Georgie. Clearly, you don’t realize the inbreeding that is going on is within the global elite families. They are the problem. They’ve all gone mad and caused this secession movement with their insane way of viewing the world as ‘theirs’.

    • John Wallman

      Or fear of being put on a federal government kill list….

    • BlueCheeseSquirrel

      You are right. The majority are not signing on to this exercise in stupidity. They are staying with the institutionally established version of stupidity.

    • Grammer

      Learn how to spell

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spartacus-Jones/598323481 Spartacus Jones

    Yes, the Obama-nazis are trying to characterize this as a petulant racist reaction from pro-Mitt Romney sore losers. Personally, I’m sure as hell not a Romney fan — but I refuse to be an Obama sycophant. The federal government is out of control — but I don’t know that state or local governments are any better. I do believe that states have a “right” to secede, and I don’t think the Civil War “settled” that question, any more that YOU can prove you’re right just by beating the stuffings out of the guy who disagrees with you.

    • 7generead8

      Are you aware that any war must be ended by a Treaty? There was no treaty signed at the end of hostilities. Know what that implies? Civil War’s never been settled.

  • wcvarones

    Daily Kos suggests that “secessionists can secede by renouncing their citizenship“.

    Not if the Schumer – Boehner Reich Flight Tax passes.

    • YankeePatriot1969

      I value my brain cells too much to read DK. I could care less what is posted there.

      • Rich H

        Of course, stick to your knowledgable news sources.

      • 7generead8

        Maybe you should read the communist manifesto and see a bit of what we are really under. Bush and Obama had nothing to do with it. Dept. of Agriculture and The Federal Reserve will get you started. 1848 and 1913. I walked up to a woman in NYC at Zuccotti Park during the OWS protest who had a table laid out with Marxist literature and asked her if she was aware we had brought in all 10 planks. She did not have a clue. Just like the TP/Patriot movement does not have a clue about the Constitution. Look up the phrase “Hegelian Dialectic”. Stop yelling at each other and understand history. Then, maybe, you might all understand “why” a little better.

      • 7generead8

        Also, look up the term “cognitive dissonance”.

  • USA2Galt

    Just 3% of the colonists began the Revolutionary War, and when this movement reaches 3% no one will ignore it either.

    • 7generead8

      Sir, no state can secede. See Texas vs White. We are 14th amendment citizens. Under “conquest” in The War Power. Right now. Everyone of us. Are you not a “citizen”? It reminds me of the movie, A Bronx Tale, “now, you can’t leave”

      • http://twitter.com/wanklord Wanklord

        Secession = PSY-OP

        It is a scientific (and indisputable) fact that Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue; these slobs are extremely gullible and incapable to think for themselves. Moreover, these brutes are lovers of wealth and pleasure; they are selfish, slothful, indolent and can be inspired to raise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jann.patterson.7 Jann Patterson

          And name calling is so much more sophisticated and educated. WTF get over yourself.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jann.patterson.7 Jann Patterson

          And name calling is so much more sophisticated and educated. WTF get over yourself.

      • YankeePatriot1969

        Any state that can defend itself militarily against the DC leviathan can secede. War is the agent of political change after peaceful means have been exhausted. Sad to say, might makes right ultimately rules the day.

        • 7generead8

          “Some of you laugh to scorn the idea of bloodshed as the result of secession, but let me tell you what is coming….Your fathers and husbands, your sons and brothers, will be herded at the point of the bayonet….You may after the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, as a bare possibility, win Southern independence…but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of state rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction…they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South. “

          “To secede from the Union and set up another government would cause war. If you go to war with the United States, you will never conquer her, as she has the money and the men. If she does not whip you by guns, powder, and steel, she will starve you to death. It will take the flower of the country-the young men.”

          “I declare that civil war is inevitable and is near at hand. When it comes the descendants of the heros of Lexington and Bunker Hill will be found equal in patriotism, courage and heroic endurance with the descendants of the heroes of Cowpens and Yorktown. For this reason I predict the civil war which is now at hand will be stubborn and of long duration.”

          All his arguments were in vain. When called upon to take an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy he refused:

          “In the name of the constitution of Texas, which has been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her.”

          He was deposed from office on March 15, 1861. Houston died on July 26, 1863, with his wife Margaret by his side. He had never ceased to bemoan the Civil War raging throughout the nation. His last words were “Texas! Texas! Margaret.”

          Secession proved him right.

          Regards

  • Rich H

    This is amusing to say the least. It would take the majority of a state voters to vote to seceed, wouldn’t it? Good luck with that. And if states like TX and FL really wan’t to go, there’s a good portion of americans who wouldn’t mind it. See how good your respective economies are without federal funds.
    See ya.

    • YankeePatriot1969

      The opposite is true. See how well the economies of the progressive gimme states will do without revenue from the productive “flyover” states!

      • Rich H

        You must mean states like CA and NY that pay much more to the feds than it’s citizens get in return. You can’t say the same for states like FL and TX – unless you get your news from FOX.
        Facts are stubborn.

        • 7generead8

          Fact. Citizen = Subject.

        • YankeePatriot1969

          OK. Let the “flyover” states secede. Then we’ll see if TX, which has a thriving economy and a balanced budget, turns into a bankrupt CA, and now-bankrupt CA becomes an economically thriving state like TX is now. If I see a turnaround like that, then I’ll believe your theory.

  • Jill_the_Pill

    … sigh not so, but let them go,

    And be you blithe and bonny,

    Converting all your sounds of woe

    Into hey nonny, nonny …

    • 7generead8

      Jill. Hey, Where does the passage come from? Woe is a strong term.

      Posting that in forums like this one is so ironic in a way, and… my kind of sarcasm.

      I don’t bother with any party or ideology by the way. The nonsense that goes on in these forums is lowest common denominator. Most do not take any initiative to source anything posted. All this arguing and name calling confirms it. It’s all emotional. Very few, if any, understand what we are under and therefore, babble about things like Obama and the Tea Party and lately, the worn out talk of secession. Not one person, in this country, my country, America, has ever been free. You want to know something really wild? The source of authority for all Civil Rights Legislation comes from the military. Under the War Powers clauses of The Constitution for The United States and THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. There have been several bankruptcies of The United States. The United States is simply “Congress Assembled”. The President, is president of the US. If he were president of all 50, he would have to sign every piece of legislation and not the Governor. The set up is, they operate as Municipal Corporations acting as government. They do not operate in the useless left right paradigm media b/s spits out daily. You are not part to any contract or treaty Congress considers. The Constitution says so. You get what you ask for. Vote!

  • Rick Costello

    1st: The ‘process’ (were it remotely serious) needs to be initiated at the state level. One does NOT ‘ask’ permission of the Great Oz to leave. States ‘inform’ the central government they have seceded – sovereignty isn’t ‘granted’ by DC.

    2nd: Pick a state petition and look at the signatures/names. How many are from ‘outside’ the very state they are signing the petition for? Oz will point to this fact when the time limits are up and simply say “These petitions are completely invalid due to the vast number of signatories not living within the states who’s petition they signed.” thereby effecting a wholesale dismissal of the entire effort (even Texas who will, in fact, likely have enough Texas signatures to be responded to.)

    3rd: What this ‘will’ accomplish is to provide a rather large list of names to DHS of folks who need to be kept an eye on who may find themselves learning more about the NDAA.

    • 7generead8

      NDAA is a Johnny come lately. I did some searching a few months back and found a business site that had the text. Was it section 1013? It didn’t amount to much. Try Trading With The Enemy Act, War Powers, McCarren Internal Security Act, National Security Act of 1947 and The Constitution where Habeus Corpus is a privilege.

  • grammer

    Leave the all of the self & PAC serving on-the-dole forever politicians behind upon seceding and start with those that actually work for principles our nation was built on

    • 7generead8

      Mercantilism?

  • Rich H

    How many people were calling for secession during Bush’s two wars of aggression, tax breaks for the rich, the legalization of torture? Stand up and be counted.
    Didn’t think so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/julian.petkov.7 Julian Petkov

    This is all very interesting. I would like to remind you that 2/3′rds of Americans do not have faith in the Federal Government! How many turn up to vote? Is America divided into Republicans and Democrats? I don’t think so. The mainstream parties are supported by small, militant minorities of interest groups and people who feel affiliated to the image being broadcast. Lets discuss secession, is there any mechanism in place, any provision that would allow such petitions to be acted upon by the Federal Government?

    • 7generead8

      It’s in the war powers clauses of the constitution. Also, see the Supreme Court case, Texas vs White. Legal Information Institute at Cornell Law will bring up the case. The most pertinent reason for the Civil War was secession. The abolition of slavery was used to ramp up public support for the war. You can get on Amazon, “The Governments War Powers Under The Constitution Of The United States” by William Whiting, Special Counselor of The War Department under Lincoln. He advised him on the use of the war powers clauses during the Civil War. It’s $15 + shipping. It explains a great deal. Julian, I will assume you are Russian? Lincoln used The Russian Navy (the largest in the world at that time) to blockade San Francisco and The Carolinas! He thought England and France were going to back the South.

    • 7generead8

      Also Julian, at the time for ratification of the constitution, only 12% of those eligible to vote did. This comes from a study by a Harvard professor. I picked this up in a book “Cracks in The Constitution” by Ferdinand Lundberg.

  • mskitty

    Does this mean that the secessionists will self deport? Renounce their citizenship? Give up their social security?

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  • singer

    so what can we do to make secession actually happen anywhere? We’ll move immediately to any state that declares itself “free” once again. We are self-employed and have been all our lives. We can start over anywhere and would sacrifice our hard-earned “comforts” to be citizens who make choices for ourselves and be accountable for those choices.

    • gene reed

      nothing

 

 

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