Explaining to a 5-Year Old Why the Indefinite Detention Bill DOES Apply to U.S. Citizens on U.S. Soil

You Don’t HAVE to Lock up Joey For The Rest Of His Life Because He Called You A Mean Name, But You CAN Lock Him Away And Throw Away The Key And Then Falsely Accuse Him Of Being a Suspected Bad Guy If It Would Make You Happy

In response to my essay documenting that the indefinite detention bill does apply to American citizens on U.S. soil, a commentator posted:

Can somebody explain to me like I am 5, why [one of the bill’s provisions – which discusses U.S. citizens] does not protect citizens?

Yes, let me explain it in words that even a 5-year-old can understand …

The bill says that the military must indefinitely detain anyone SUSPECTED of helping bad guys.

One provision says that the mandatory (“must”) indefinite detention doesn’t apply to U.S. citizens … but the government CAN indefinitely detain any U.S. citizen it feels like without trial, without presenting evidence, without letting the citizen consult with a lawyer, and without even charging the citizen.

This would destroy our Constitutional rights to trial, to face our accuser and to consult with an attorney.

Indeed, it would destroy rights created in England in 1215.

In other words, it’s like saying “you don’t HAVE to lock up Joey for the rest of his life because he called you a mean name, but you CAN lock him away and throw away the key and then falsely accuse him of being a suspected terrorist if it would make you happy”.

Get it?

That is why Congressman Justin Amash wrote:

Senators McCain and Levin have teamed up to promote one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our lifetime, S 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act. This bill would permit the federal government to indefinitely detain American citizens on American soil, without charge or trial, at the discretion of the President. It is destructive of our Constitution.

… A few commenters have suggested that the dangerous provisions in S 1867 (discussed in my previous post) do not apply to American citizens because of this language in Sec. 1032: “The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.” This language appears carefully crafted to mislead the public. Note that it does not preclude U.S. citizens from being detained indefinitely, without charge or trial, it simply makes such detention discretionary.

Amash subsequently wrote:

Pres. Obama and many Members of Congress believe the President ALREADY has the authority the bill grants him. Legally, of course, he does not. This language was inserted to keep proponents and opponents of the bill appeased, while permitting the President to assert that the improper power he has claimed all along is now in statute.


They will say that American citizens are specifically exempted under the following language in Sec. 1032: “The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.” Don’t be fooled. All this says is that the President is not REQUIRED to indefinitely detain American citizens without charge or trial. It still PERMITS him to do so.

The ACLU notes:

Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so.

See this.

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  • JR

    So, basically what we have here is our own version of Pakistan’s insane blasphemy law, where if you are accused, you kiss your derriere away?

    At least Pakistan has an excuse – they never had something as wonderful as the US Constitution.

    • Rev. Gary L. Jones

      So this is where all the looneys go to find enablers.

  • Daryl Salley

    Why in God’s name has this not been exposed by the Main Stream Media? Is everyone brain-dead? This is the opening for a vicious dictator to emerge and remove all of the dissidents who oppose him, both political foes, and ordinary citizens. Can anyone say Nazi Germany? Detention without trial is TOTALLY AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTION!!! Thank the Right Wing patriots who are exposing this, just as they did with the “Fast & Furious” scandal. God bless them and the First Amendent.

    • John

      Because the m.s.m. Is involved up to their necks (which by the way should be stretched at the end of a rope) in the fascist government that the u.s. is currently forming.

      • Hang M High

        And so should all the Congress Critters and Senators who are ok with this, along with the bastard president and his vice…

      • Brian

        And their complicity will be remembered in the Nuremburg 2.0 trials.

    • jo6pac

      it’s owned buy the forces that own the media, corp.
      Thanks GW

    • Fuzzy

      the main stream media is the problem. They are controlled by the left. They won’t say anything to put them in a bad light.

      • Howard T. Lewis III

        WRONG Fuzzy. The mainstream media is controlled and owned by the English based Rothschild banks and other lesser forces in the Council on Foreign relations, which is basically the Federal Reserve System, a private amalgamation of banks that prints up money whenever they want it and laughes to see you hungry and accusing your neighbor.

      • pedro mohr

        The left?You likely know what you mean by” the left” but I have two arms left and right and may need them both if I meet you in a dark ally.Why not say what you mean or if mean nothing say nothing.

    • godsofold

      Daryl, look up Operation Mockingbird

      • Howard T. Lewis III

        Good catch, the CIA is loyal to England first and plays up to the U.S.. They murdered JFK, and the CFRtv runs interference for the traitorous CIA to this day.

    • Mr Mojo

      A better name for the main stream media is shit stream media. It’s all lies.

    • Wade

      Why hasn’t it been exposed to the media?

      It has. It’s information available to the public. The only thing is that it’s not true. The defense authorization doesn’t change ANY laws regarding arrest and detention of US citizens.

      Section 1031(e): (e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.


      Truth over fear, people. Truth over fear.

      • Howard T. Lewis III

        Exactly. Who did the murders and destruction on 9-11? Who signed off on the demolition system including the nukes in the basement back in 1968? Who did the U.S. Senate sign off on as being the intentional destroyers of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig and the well at the Maconda Prospect in the GoM? Who murdered JFK in cold blood on the streets of Dallas on November 22, 1963? Who orchestrated the deregulation of the stock and bond markets to allow no-rules looting? Who murdered Bobby Kennedy? Who licensed, designed and signed off on the Fukushima nuclear reactors built on the beach facing open ocean in the center of the most active tsunami zone on earth with the emergency cooling systems less than 20 feet above sea level and 40 years of spent fuel sitting above the reactors? Who ran Operation Phoenix, the El Salvador death squads and the Iraq-Afghanistan death squads murdering tens of thousands of civilians for ‘strategic psychological advantage’? Who is letting Monsanto poison all of us? Who is letting Searle poison us with nutri-sweet? Who orchestrated the robo-repo of thousands upon thousands of American homes? Who stole the Lily Gold and the black Eagle Gold trust? Who is pictured standing with a foot up on several dead central American Indians with Nelson Rockefeller showing off their murders?
        Truth, not fear. Don’t show up at my house to date my daughter or I will knock you end over end to the sidewalk. The country is in trouble, BAD. You been mewling, boy.

    • Rev. Gary L. Jones

      Right Wing patriots ? Hitler was a right wing patriot. Can anyone say right-wingnut wackadoddle.

  • marco

    So if I call Hussein Oblabla a socialist they’ll come and lock me up?

    • Mike S.

      No, the ‘socialist’ smear is a mainstream GOP utterance, thus it goes unnoticed.
      You’ll have to do something a bit out of the ordinary to attract attention.
      If you were to go about telling everyone what ‘socialism’ actually means in the rest of the world while pointing out that most Americans erroneously equate it with ‘Stalinism’, then you’d have a probl —– hang on, I’ll be right back, someone’s at my door.

      • chrissie

        Don’t mean to wax religious here, but it suddenly occurs to me this is perhaps why Revelations contains so much symbolic language. Cloaked in allegory, its expository candor about the prevailing evils of the day made the book somewhat “persecution-proof.”

  • Harry

    This is the same as happened in Germany when the Nazis took over. A staged crisis (the Reichstag fire blamed on some dupe who was trumped up as a communist). I do believe that 9/11 was planned and the intent of the event was to vurtail freedom and eventual dictatorship; a New World Order. I am surprised that more citizens are not in the streets and even taking up arms. Never let the government take away your guns and ammunition. In the final analysis that may be your only way to remain free.

    Lenin said that the way to break the middle class was between the twin forces of inflation and taxation. What is happening now?

  • Greg

    Hod does congress get away with passing legislation that defies the constitution?

    The 14th Amendment created the United States Citizen, a previously non-existent form of citizenship. Prior to this amendment, the only American citizens were those of the sovereign states of the republic.

    “The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.” –United States Constitution, Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1

    People are deceived into becoming United States Citizens and so subject to U.S. legislation based on the authority of this 14th Amendment.

    “there is in our Political System, a government of each of the several states and a government of the United States. Each is distinct from the other and has citizens of its own.”
    –US v Cruikshank, 92 US 542 (1875)

    The corporation that poses as our government was created by an act of congress on February 21, 1871 “to provide a Government for the District of Columbia”. It created the corporate government of the District of Columbia that would effectively (not lawfully) become our government in 1878. This DC corporation, masquerading as our government, treats us as their citizens. The act in 1878 stated the District of Columbia Corporation to be the government of the United States. The deception being that the statutory definition of the United States was still the District of Columbia and not us.

    “Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That all of the territory which was ceded by the State of Maryland to the Congress of the United States for the permanent seat of the government of the United States shall continue to be designated as the District of Columbia. The District of Columbia shall remain and continue a municipal corporation…” –Act of June 11, 1878, Vol.20, Chap.180, Statutes at Large

    The Federal Government resides outside of the 50 states of the republic. Therefore, the Federal Government is a FOREIGN CORPORATION named the UNITED STATES.

    “The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect to a State”
    –Volume 20 Corpus Juris Secundum (Principles of American Law) §1785

    The United States government, which is on a ten acre parcel of property within Washington D.C. (District of Columbia), outside the united States of America is a corporation that has taken on the role of our government.

    PART VI>CHAPTER 176 >SUBCHAPTER A >§ 3002. Definitions

    (15) “United States” means—
    (A) a Federal corporation;

    The national government – this Federal corporation – which is foreign to the united States of America and which is in fact controlled to a great extent by the international bankers and by the laws and rules of the United Nations, has unlawfully set itself up as a quasi-government (resembles government) controlling the united States of America. It has no lawful authority outside the District of Columbia and other federal territories (states).

    “The laws of Congress … do not extend into the territorial limits of the states, but have force only in the District of Columbia, and other places that are within the exclusive jurisdiction of the national government.” –Caha v. U.S., 152 US 211 at 215 (1894)

    U.S. Code (Federal statutes) defines a United States citizen (created by the 14th Amendment) as someone who resides in the District of Columbia or one of the federally owned territories (states) such as Puerto Rico. The words “states” and “United States” as used in the statutes are defined to mean the District of Columbia and the U.S. territories. Why the deception? The legislative authority of Congress is constitutionally limited to the District of Columbia and federally owned territories.

    “The Congress shall have Power to exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;” –United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

    Citizens of the corporate United States are not state citizens of the united States of America and so not protected by the constitution.

    “The privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States do not necessarily include all the rights protected by the first eight amendments to the Federal constitution against the powers of the Federal government.” –Maxwell v. Dow, 176 US 581 (1900)

    U.S. citizens are national citizens of this foreign nation known as the United States which is owned and controlled by the federal government and separate from state citizens.

    “There is a clear distinction between national citizenship and state citizenship.”
    –Tahiro v Jordan, 278 US 123 (1928)

    The only constitutional authority congress has over the citizens of the fifty states of the real united States of America is over interstate commerce. They otherwise have no legislative authority over the private citizens of the sovereign states of the republic.

    “It is no longer open to question that the general government, unlike the states, possesses no inherit power in respect of the internal affairs of the states, and emphatically not with regard to legislation.” –Carter vs. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 at 295 (1936)

    So they brainwashed people into falsely believing that congress was able to apply their legislation to the people under the jurisdiction of interstate commerce. But this was just another ploy to keep people ignorant of the truth.

    “The manufacture of goods is not commerce, nor do the facts that they are intended for, and are afterwards shipped in, interstate commerce make their production a part of that commerce subject to the control of Congress.” –Hammer v. Dagenhart, 247 U.S. 251 (1918)

    The only jurisdiction of any government (state or federal) is over their business – government corporate business. As long as we don’t deprive anyone else of their constitutional rights (commit a crime), our private business matters are none of their business. But they trick us into saying that we are U.S. citizens or government employees and so part of their business (public business).

    “…there is a clear distinction … between an individual and a corporation… The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no such duty [to submit his books and papers for an examination] to the state, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land [Common Law] long antecedent to the organization of the state, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.” –Hale v Henkel, 201 US 43 at 47 (1906)

    The United States Code (USC), which is the codified federal statutes that people have been misled to believe are their laws, only applies to the United States as defined above and its 14th Amendment citizens. The USC does not apply to the citizens of the 50 states of the Republic. Each of the 50 states has their own constitution and laws. Whenever you read federal statutes or court decisions, you need to be aware of which United States is being referred to. People think it only refers to our republic, the 50 sovereign states.

    “The term United States may be used in any one of several senses. It may be merely the name of a sovereign occupying the position analogous to that of the sovereigns in the family of nations. It may designate the territory over which the sovereignty of the United States extends, or it may be the collective name of the states which are united by and under the Constitution.”
    –Hooven & Allison Co. v. Evatt 324, 324 U.S. 652 (1945)

    Because of this deception the people ignorantly declare they are U.S. citizens as created by the 14th Amendment and therefore under the jurisdiction of the federal government, i.e. under the jurisdiction of the United States – the District of Columbia corporation.

    “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
    –United States Constitution, 14th Amendment, Section 1, enacted July 18, 1868.

    If you translated the 14th amendment into common English, it would read as follows:

    “All persons born or naturalized in the Federal territory of the United States, are subject to the jurisdiction of this Federal Corporation and are citizens of this foreign Federal Corporation named the United States and of the Federal state (Federal territory) wherein they reside.”

    In order for this scheme to appear legal, they had to provide a remedy (give the people a political choice) which they did 9 days later. The remedy is to expatriate from (leave) the “United States” thereby denying your U.S. citizenship and retaining your sovereignty as a state citizen thus becoming a foreign state in regards to this foreign corporation.

    “Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any declaration, instruction, opinion, order, or decision of any officers of this government which denies, restricts, impairs, or questions the right of expatriation, is hereby declared inconsistent with the fundamental principles of this government.”
    –Act of July 27, 1868, Vol.15, Chap.249, Statutes at Large

    The actual USC statutory legal status, in regards to this federal Corporation, of Americans not residing in federal territory but rather in the non-federal areas within one of the sovereign states of the republic is that of a foreigner or non-resident alien. A U.S. citizen is bound by all of the federal statutes while private state citizens are foreign states (outlying islands) in regards to this federal United States whom congress and their statutes have no jurisdiction. We are citizens of the state republic in which we live.

    If you read the general exceptions from the United States Code quoted below, you can see that even if you declare yourself a foreign state, they will still try to claim jurisdiction over you by your (1) “implied waived immunity” or by your (2) “action based upon a commercial activity”.


    § 1604. Immunity of a foreign state from jurisdiction
    … a foreign state shall be immune from the jurisdiction of the courts of the United States and of the States except as provided in sections 1605 to 1607 of this chapter.

    § 1605. General exceptions to the jurisdictional immunity of a foreign state
    (a) A foreign state shall not be immune from the jurisdiction of courts of the United States or of the States in any case—
    (1) in which the foreign state has waived its immunity either explicitly or by implication, notwithstanding any withdrawal of the waiver which the foreign state may purport to effect except in accordance with the terms of the waiver;

    (2) in which the action is based upon a commercial activity carried on in the United States by the foreign state;

    When you say, or fail to deny, you are a U.S. citizen you are submitting yourself to the jurisdiction of the federal government which only applies to residents of the District of Columbia and federal employees. If you deny you are a U.S. citizen and try to claim you are a foreign state immune from their jurisdiction but accept government benefits such as social security, you become a federal employee (federal personnel).

    § 552a. Records maintained on individuals (a) Definitions.
    (13) the term “Federal personnel” means officers and employees of the Government of the United States, members of the uniformed services (including members of the Reserve Components), individuals entitled to receive immediate or deferred retirement benefits under any retirement program of the Government of the United States (including survivor benefits).

    When you “voluntarily” apply for a driver’s license, etc., you are declaring that you are engaging in a “commercial activity” thus again waiving your immunity.

    “Because of what appears to be lawful commands on the surface, many Citizens, because of their respect for what appears to be law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their rights due to ignorance.” –United States Supreme Court (1956), US. v. Minker, 350 US 179 at 187

    However, with this awareness and knowledge, you can reject all “benefits” and withdraw all “waivers”.

    • portamenteff

      This bill marks a major shift in power. It circumvents the power of the court system so that the executive branch can make legal conclusions in determining the status of a subject encountered in the so called “war on terror.” It allows them the discretion to determine if a person is a “terrorist” thus stripping the right of due process to any prisoner. A suspect can now be held indefinitely, and even killed on sight without the checks and balances of the judicial branch. It simply codifies the powers Clinton wanted, Bush assumed through a broad interpretation of the Patriot act, and Obama inherited from that and even expanded. The assignation of US citizen Anwar al-Aulaqi abroad can now be expanded to US citizens in the any of the states or US territories.
      It reminds me of a quote from Richard Nixon when asked “Can the president commit illegal acts?” Nixon’s response was (paraphrased) “If the president does it, it is not illegal.”

    • Old Wolf

      Actually, the 14th amendment was passed, according to congressional argument, to place into the law of the land a specific law, the 1866 civil rights act, establishing that any act, under color of law or otherwise, against any persons rights, done by any person, is a criminal act. This law still exists under title 18, section 241-242, and was discussed heavily by Senator Trumbull and Representative Wilson at the time.

      However, others got into power in the government, and spent nearly 150 years diluting it and changing it and modifying the meaning, which was simple. Those whom enjoyed those rights guaranteed by the constitution or laws of the United States could never be again reduced to slavery.

      The acts were reestablished in 1871, after the passage of the 14th amendment, and exist in criminal and civil code today. They are the least enforced laws within the United States, even though under title 18, section 4 of the United States Code, all law enforcement officers and courts are mandated reporters, and it is a criminal act to refuse to enforce them.

      The history, and congressional record is quite clear on the meaning of the law, and of the Amendment. Miseducation has applied it differently, and miseducation deliberately created by those benefiting most from misanthropy and hatred.

    • I cannot thank you enough Greg for this info and your pertinent referrals. I am more despondent that I am more educated about the vicious machine to liquidate humanity. Yes, I am more fearful to even write about this online….but I deeply thank you: I do not know what I am going to do with this at this time!

  • Mc Cain of all people,he knows what it’s like to be false accused and imprisoned. But indefensibly with no trial and even if your a American citizen. He went wacky.

    • mike

      Conrad, you are too kind for one who least deserves it. McCain didn’t “go wacky”. He went traitor. He betrayed soldiers in his unit during the Vietnam war to the Viet Cong, so he could get more lenient treatment. I’ve often wondered if McCain is the Vietnam Vendetta sent back to the usa for revenge. Given his appalling lack of humanity since his return stateside, it makes more sense than not. He is a piece of garbage.

  • amy

    Ummmm….the United States Government has not followed the Constitution for quite a long time. Rather sad and sick.

    • Mr Mojo

      At least 98 years.

      • dave

        Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus while in office. They built monuments to him in D.C.! They love him to this day. He was the American Castro.
        If drug dealers are willing to kill border agents now, what will an FBI agent’s life be worth when people learn they will be taken away forever if they submit to arrest?

    • Thank God that there are a few people left in this country who get that. Every time someone says, “But, but, but the consteetootion,” I want to to pull out their eye and fill their cranial space with substance.

      But then again. most people who scream the consteetootion have never read it, nor have they read the federalist and anti-federalist papers. Hell, some people actually believe we get our “rights” from the consteetootion.

      And really, since when did gov care about the USC or any other “law”?

      GAWD people… w-a-k-e up.

      Go buy some guns if you haven’t already. Big bad gov is only and big and bad as your quaking minds allow it to be. There is not enough of them. Get loud and obnoxious. And when they come to your door, shoot their arses. Sure, you might die, but if enough people are willing to fight back, their security goons will become in short supply… besides, some thing are worse than dying. This whole garbage is just to put fear into your quaking hearts. Stop quaking and start living like freemen. And accept the self-responsibility that comes with it.


    The Politicians have been passing laws that don’t make sense for decades & we the American People are never truely aware of these laws because they are in such legal wording & double & triple talk that any layperson would have their mind scrambled just trying to read through them. We have been shafted by our elected officials for way too long & they just keep taking advantage of their positions for personal gain & don’t ever concider what their constituants want.

    • Sandy

      People need to stop electing lawyers as their representatives. Elect plumbers and carpenters, farmers and truckers. Insist that they themselves write the laws, and read all bills in full before ever voting on them. Insist that all bills be published, and given time for discussion. NO MORE “waived rules” rushed-through legislation! The worst pieces of totalitarian power-grabbing have been enacted via waived rules, a la Pelosi & co.

  • Has anyone come up with the reason why Levin, usually a thoughtful progressive is a lead on this?

    And all the votes from the other so-called liberals/progressives?

    Something seems to be going on of which most of the U.S. population is completely oblivious?

    • Mr Mojo

      Because both parties are owned by the same people. It’s all a big fraud to fool the stupid Americans. Works quite well too. Has you fooled.

  • Philip Hult

    ACLU is right wing? Glad to see the ACLU is trying to keep our constitutional rights intact.

  • Caffeinated


    It’s not just the right that is upset about this – the left and the middle aren’t happy, either. Why this hasn’t been discussed on the MSM is as good a guess as mine. Keeping us ignorant of what is going on in Washington seems to be the goal of the MSM these days.

  • As if this is still a free country; as if most if not all of our rights under the constitution and the bill of rights was not already stripped away by the horribly misnamed ‘Patriot Act.’
    The only thing you need to see is the lines of people submitting like sheep to the shearer as they allow the TSA to ‘pat them down’ or ‘feel them up’ (reader’s choice here) just to fly on a domestic airline from one ‘free’ state to another. Now after seeing that, realize that only a few years ago there was NOTHING like that in place in the US and you realize that the ‘Sheeple’ of this republic are so easily remolded into willing participants in a Fascist regime that it is only one or two more steps to a country where the neighbor down the lane will turn you in because you get radical literature (Washington’s Blog?) and you reload ammunition. He points you out to the Lieutenant in charge of a platoon of Army Rangers and receives his bonus (1500 dollars in new Military Scrip) and no one will ever hear from you again as a HMV toils up the slopes to the new “re-education center” to deliver you, your family, some few of your friends that were dumb enough to agree they knew you when the local re-Education officer (FBI) interviewed them. Once inside the wire, the odds are the only way you will ever leave the barbed wire enclosed FEMA camp will be in a body bag, or in the oily smoke that you see pouring out of the onsite incinerator. (camp power generation)
    I estimate we are only one catastrophe away from this kind of America, maybe a ‘dirty bomb’ in New York?
    God help us all….

  • FreedomScribe

    Why is this not the lead story on every newscast, front page, and homepage?! This one provision turns America into Cuba. WTF is wrong with Americans?! Maybe they’re just too stupid to know that they should be scared and angry. It’s over people. Men, protect the women and children and get ready to rumble. Prepare for the worst, pray for the best. +

  • Joana

    It’s not the right wing to thank for exposing this. If ye go by that logic then whoexposed George W. Bush for the Patriot Act??? This bill is just a derivative of the Patriot Act, that was passed under a “right wing”.Under the Patriot Act, the police has the authority to write its own search warrents, withought a neutral judge as provided by the Cosntitution.Still think ye enjoy the IV Amendment?. If the language provided assurance US citizens were not to fear it, think again; the President was given authority to strip of citizenship anyone “considered a traitot”, does that sound a slight sinonim with “terrorist activity”?Once ye become an apolide, well I’m sorry friend, but ye’re very close to the claws of that bill.Are ye sure the V Amendment is still up and running???
    And ye’re asking who exposed it? Listen to the C-Span debates, 7 senators alone voted the NDAA against 63. Ron Paul has been at it forever, and only now people are getting tuned to that voice in the wilderness. How sad is it to fail in knowledge, but how much worse to fail in recognizing wisdom. Hopefully it is not too late for this country. Get informed before ye vote your conscience. Google Ron Paul, youtube him, ye will notice his unmatched intelect.

  • suezz


  • Mr Mojo

    I can’t believe how many here question why the MSM aren’t reporting this. Are you serious? You really think the corporate/government propaganda outlets are going to tell you the truth? Are you part of the people that can be fooled all of the time?

  • Beat them to the punch…call DHS (or some other bloated alphabet agency of the Yoo-knighted Staytz of Gulagistan) and tell them you think BO is really a secret terrorist and may very well be OBL’s third cousin twice removed, or try to turn in ALL of the House and Senate for…helping the enemy! LOL! The US is toast and has been for some time…welcome to Gulagistan!

  • Albatross

    The one and only solution is to disband the Union of States. In other words, SECEDE. That will leave of D.C. all by itself to deal with it’s own foreign allegiance. The Fed will make war against the individual states, but there is strength in numbers and will allow an independence for each state, not seen for over 200 years. That is the only solution to the problem. There is no other. All military personnel should remove themselves from the military and become part of their own states’ military system. I’m sure there is more to be said on this subject. By the way, get ready for Martial Law, coming soon to a state near you, compliments of Patriot act and your’s truly, the dictator himself, Barak Hussein Obama.

  • JohnGuy

    I have a disagreement with something that Wade pointed out:

    Section 1031(e): (e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

    There are two issues that I have with the existing argument: First is that this passage talks about “existing authorities”. Due to Posse Comitatus, the military isn’t technically a preexisting authority. ‘Technically’ they’re just government controlled, non-law enforcement personnel. So yeah, it doesn’t change any laws because there aren’t any except that they can’t arrest people, which brings us to the second point.

    The language here specifically mentions that existing ‘arrest’ laws will remain intact. Okay. The problem is that the bill doesn’t allow for detainment through arrest, it allows for detainment on its own. One isn’t charged with a crime, one is just placed in legal Limbo. It is a small distinction that will be handed over to people who make a living speaking legalese. “These soldiers aren’t here to arrest you, this won’t even go on your record. We just need you to come with us for awhile and we’ll get it cleared up real quick. Trust us.”

    I doubt they’ll even need to use handcuffs.

  • Richard Thorne

    GO TO:

    America is being systematically destroyed…


    Messianic Minister
    Rick Thorne

  • Martita

    I can’t wait for Hussein’s state of the union address–what will he say? But then what can one expect of a candidate put into office by Oprah?

  • js freeman

    They can pass all the unlawful codes, statutes, rules they want. As free people on the land we are not obligated to follow any such nonsense. In fact these traitors should immediately be removed from office and put on trial for making war on the people and perjuring their oath of office. We now have the right and duty to dissolve this government and put in place another. Remember we created the government and they serve us.

  • Kevin Beck

    Let me see if I have this correct. There is a fossil of paper that was signed and agreed to in 1791 that states that there are specific provisions required for any future law to change what is written in this document; SPECIFICALLY: The passage by each house of Congress by a 2/3 majority, and then ratification by 3/4 of the State legislatures. I believe they call this document the United States Constitution.

    But here we have a “rule” passed by a majority vote in Congress, that is being sent to the desk of the President for signature, that changes a portion of the Constitution.

    This “rule,” on its face, is invalid. Whether the President, because of Ass Sunnstein the Orwellian wordsmith, claims he currently has this power or not.

    Note to the wordsmith: I may have misspelled Sunnstein’s name; I couldn’t figure out whether it was Crass or Cassandra, so I decided to just include the common part of those names.

  • Erin

    There are plenty of laws in this country designed to protect citizens, but they are not recognized by those choosing to abuse their power and authority. Please pay attention to our peaceful protesters being beaten and detained unlawfully while our own President criticizes other countries for doing the same thing! We’re only given the illusion of freedom, people. Some of us took an oath to protect against all enemies foreign or domestic … when does that start? These are really scary times.

  • Well-Armed Lamb

    Ben Franklin said
    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty”
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote”

  • It is good to see a majority of posters here have a good grasp of the problem stemming back to JFK’s murder and the Vietnam War, the other assassinations and attempts, Watergate, the Hostages turned over to Reagan on day 1, Iran-Contra, the Savings and Loan ripoff, WTC ’93, Waco, Oklahoma City, the Kuwait incubator babies fraud, the 2000 election theft, 9/11, anthrax intimidation, preemptive wars, torture, rendition, censorship and lies in the media, and now the Internet threat. We need to convince more people. Visual aids like the cut beams at the WTC, the Osama video fraud, Building 7’s controlled demolition, the Parkland doctors placing their hands on the back of their heads showing where JFK’s exit wound blasted out, etc. might be more effective than words. If we could simplify and clarify. Of course, there are those who are deliberately trying to appear ridiculous and obfuscate. Maybe it’s too late, but what have we got to lose except our freedoms?

  • Rhett

    Why has there not been an honest debate about this in the Republican primary debates? Has the question even been asked, “If you were in the Senate would you sign this bill”? Or if you were president would you veto it? Seems the media is guilty as well. Instead it is all about gay marriage, illegal immigration and Iran. Ridiculous.